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Old 03-10-2018, 01:56 PM
Two Many Cats Two Many Cats is offline
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What would happen if Kim Jong Un Kidnapped Trump?

The Dear Leader has been known to not let his guests leave when they want to. Let's say during this future meeting between Kimmy Boy and Trump that's being set up, the North Koreans manage to spirit Trump away somewhere. Let's say Kim Jong Un is crazy enough to believe this will prove his regime's worth to the world, and demand a huge ransom, ala that whole King Richard the Lionheart fiasco almost a thousand years ago. Kim hopes the mighty US will grovel before him.

Would the evangelical addled Republicans suddenly become Christlike and turn the other cheek to our foes? Would they declare Pence president and go from there? After all, they wouldn't want to kill millions and possibly end the world over Trump would they?

Would saying, "Keep him." even be an option?

I just like thinking about this.
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Old 03-10-2018, 02:01 PM
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What would happen if Kim Jong Un Kidnapped Trump?

An epic party, followed by an epic battle. Oh, ok! We can do the battle bit first, I guess...
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Old 03-10-2018, 02:35 PM
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Trump may be a <censored> <censored> <contd p.97> but he's an American <censored> <censored> <contd p.97>.
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Old 03-10-2018, 03:17 PM
WillReadmore WillReadmore is offline
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It won't happen.

Un wants to be a world leader.

He now has rockets that could deliver a nuke to the US and others.

Next step: photos with Trump and Un discussing world order.

Trump is handing him the biggest gift he could ask for right now. And, it happened by having the SK big wigs(!) announce what the US president was going to do(!) at night(!) from the front lawn(!) without his administration even knowing it was going to happen and denying it right up until in happened!!


Why would Un screw THAT up?

From his perspective, this is just too beautiful for words.
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Old 03-10-2018, 03:23 PM
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Hopefully acting-President Pence will stand by the old "We do not negotiate" line.
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Old 03-10-2018, 03:37 PM
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"The U.S. announced today a total lifting of all trade embargoes on North Korea. These embargoes will be instantly reinstated should North Korea give Trump back."
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Old 03-10-2018, 03:40 PM
Smapti Smapti is offline
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Un wants to be a world leader.
Point of order; his surname is "Kim". "Jong-Un" is his personal name.
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Old 03-10-2018, 03:52 PM
FlikTheBlue FlikTheBlue is offline
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It won't happen.

Un wants to be a world leader.

He now has rockets that could deliver a nuke to the US and others.

Next step: photos with Trump and Un discussing world order.

Trump is handing him the biggest gift he could ask for right now. And, it happened by having the SK big wigs(!) announce what the US president was going to do(!) at night(!) from the front lawn(!) without his administration even knowing it was going to happen and denying it right up until in happened!!


Why would Un screw THAT up?

From his perspective, this is just too beautiful for words.
How is it a gift? Iíve never understood the idea that negotiating with someone is somehow a gift or a concession in and of itself. A gift would be lifting sanctions or giving Kim some money or something of that sort. But just sitting down at a table to talk with someone is just an acknowledgement of the fact we arenít unilaterally capable of solving that particular situation, not some kind of reward to that person.
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Old 03-10-2018, 04:18 PM
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What would happen if Kim Jong Un Kidnapped Trump?


I'd send him a Thank You card.
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  #10  
Old 03-10-2018, 04:30 PM
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I just like thinking about this.
Well, the obvious answer is to call in a favor from his buddy Putin. The neutral Russian Hostage "Rescue" Team can handle the situation, given their enviable record in resolving such matters.

Last edited by Riemann; 03-10-2018 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 03-10-2018, 04:34 PM
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War would be the result, and we're all better off if every country clearly understands that.
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Old 03-10-2018, 04:54 PM
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War would be the result, and we're all better off if every country clearly understands that.
I'm on the phone now to President Kabore of Burkina Faso, he didn't know.
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Old 03-10-2018, 04:55 PM
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I'd send them a strongly worded note demanding that they take Pence also.

But it would never work. Read O'Henry's Ransom of Red Chief to find out why.
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Old 03-10-2018, 05:02 PM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
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Much as I am not a fan of the current resident of the White House, he's still our president, and I would not take too kindly to someone kidnapping our president.

No matter how I feel about the person, that sets a terrible precedent for the office.

I would support whatever means are necessary to retrieve him, and should harm befall him, then retaliation (of a non-nuclear form) would be very appropriate.

Anyway, I am sure that Kim knows this, and so this is not a scenario that is likely to be entertained.
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Old 03-10-2018, 05:19 PM
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This isn't really the situation where private citizens, without diplomatic protections, are held under trumped up charges. This is a head of state with full diplomatic protections. There's a three word description for the actions of a state that ignores diplomatic conventions and kidnaps a head of state - act of war.

Which effectively makes this a declaration of war against the United States. That's unlikely to be shrugged off.
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Old 03-10-2018, 05:25 PM
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I would support whatever means are necessary to retrieve him, and should harm befall him, then retaliation (of a non-nuclear form) would be very appropriate.
You think Kim won't use nukes if we don't?
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Old 03-10-2018, 05:35 PM
WillReadmore WillReadmore is offline
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Originally Posted by k9bfriender View Post
Much as I am not a fan of the current resident of the White House, he's still our president, and I would not take too kindly to someone kidnapping our president.

No matter how I feel about the person, that sets a terrible precedent for the office.

I would support whatever means are necessary to retrieve him, and should harm befall him, then retaliation (of a non-nuclear form) would be very appropriate.

Anyway, I am sure that Kim knows this, and so this is not a scenario that is likely to be entertained.
Exactly. I don't see anything Kim has to gain by kidnapping western government officials.

He's not going to give up nuclear deterrence.

Kim has more to fear from China, I think. We're not going to nuke NK, and NK has far greater dependence on China.

Kim's status and the negotiating power of China probably move a little toward Kim's favor by his recent moves with Trump and SK.


Are we really going to have to look at photos of Kim and Trump shaking hands way too long?

I doubt it.
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Old 03-10-2018, 05:44 PM
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Much as I am not a fan of the current resident of the White House, he's still our president, and I would not take too kindly to someone kidnapping our president.
Sure, as long as it's clear we're recovering the President, not Trump. Not the same thing.

It's fun to entertain a Ruthless People scenario, anyway.
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Old 03-10-2018, 06:01 PM
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Sure, as long as it's clear we're recovering the President, not Trump. Not the same thing.

It's fun to entertain a Ruthless People scenario, anyway.
I'd be very happy to retrieve him from a north korean prison and toss him into one of ours.
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Old 03-10-2018, 06:21 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
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Is it still too soon to make Otto Warmbier jokes?
  #21  
Old 03-10-2018, 06:25 PM
Bryan Ekers Bryan Ekers is offline
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Could Trump go through the same montage Pierce Brosnan does at the start of Die Another Day? I hear scorpion bites are good for healing bone spurs.
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  #22  
Old 03-10-2018, 06:26 PM
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An epic party, followed by an epic battle. Oh, ok! We can do the battle bit first, I guess...
Kind of like this one? [except that BOTH principals would end up limbless, and in total denial...]
  #23  
Old 03-10-2018, 06:28 PM
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This isn't really the situation where private citizens, without diplomatic protections, are held under trumped up charges.
I see what you did there.
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Old 03-10-2018, 06:51 PM
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I see what you did there.
[perfectlyinnocentvoice] Me?!? [/PIV]
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Old 03-10-2018, 07:13 PM
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I don't think they'll kidnap him, though I do think that the likelihood of it is high enough that the Secret Service will make sure that the meeting happens in the DMZ or somewhere that both sides can keep a lock on.

Overall, it's going to be a rather strange event. Fundamentally, NK already has everything they could ever want (so far as the leadership is concerned). They have to come up with a wishlist of stuff to ask for despite that, figuring that Trump is stupid enough to give it to them just so that he can claim to have negotiated something.

It'll be interesting to hear what all they will ask for. I assume things that will help them to continue ramping up their criminal enterprises.
  #26  
Old 03-10-2018, 07:14 PM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is offline
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I'm not seeing a debate, here.

To the Pit with ye!
  #27  
Old 03-10-2018, 07:32 PM
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All Kim has to do is praise Trump, call him an inspiration, praise his tariff ideas and show loyalty.

Sanctions? What sanctions? That'll be enough for Trump to lift them. Without notifying anyone first, of course.
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Old 03-10-2018, 07:51 PM
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I don’t think they’ll kidnap him. I think Kim will make Trump the centerpiece of one of those big NK military parades, and the photos will circulate of him and Kim standing together on a balcony watching. Maybe Kim will have a big-ass bronze statue of him and Trump standing together made to commemorate the occasion. Maybe they’ll talk about some sort of dumb-ass trade deal that will violate all sorts of treaties and international laws. Of course, no one will document the conversation and no matter what happens, Trump will tell the world that Kim acquiescenced to his every demand and asked for nothing in return. And Trump will genuinely believe it. And Kim will disagree and Trump will start tweeting.

Or, maybe it will work. Maybe this is the silver lining to having a crazy person as president. Maybe Kim believes Trump will actually nuke them or at least bomb the crap out of them.
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Old 03-10-2018, 07:58 PM
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War would be the result, and we're all better off if every country clearly understands that.
Which side would the USA be on in the war to return Trump?
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Old 03-10-2018, 08:01 PM
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It won't happen.

Un wants to be a world leader.

He now has rockets that could deliver a nuke to the US and others.

Next step: photos with Trump and Un discussing world order.

Trump is handing him the biggest gift he could ask for right now. And, it happened by having the SK big wigs(!) announce what the US president was going to do(!) at night(!) from the front lawn(!) without his administration even knowing it was going to happen and denying it right up until in happened!!


Why would Un screw THAT up?

From his perspective, this is just too beautiful for words.
You used to be Okrahoma, right?
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Old 03-10-2018, 08:10 PM
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I guess that would give Un a leg up on the Nobel Peace Prize.
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Old 03-10-2018, 08:26 PM
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The Dear Leader has been known to not let his guests leave when they want to. Let's say during this future meeting between Kimmy Boy and Trump that's being set up, the North Koreans manage to spirit Trump away somewhere. Let's say Kim Jong Un is crazy enough to believe this will prove his regime's worth to the world, and demand a huge ransom, ala that whole King Richard the Lionheart fiasco almost a thousand years ago. Kim hopes the mighty US will grovel before him.
Hire a couple of Bad Dudes called Blade and Striker, of course.
  #33  
Old 03-10-2018, 08:29 PM
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Thoughts and prayers

Ryan: the President was an American hero, and we thank him for his sacrifice

N Korea: so you donít want him back

McConnell: he was a man among men

N Korea: wait fine weíll drop our demands just take him back

Pence: he is in Godís hands now

https://twitter.com/erinscafe/status/972010404745392128
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  #34  
Old 03-10-2018, 08:36 PM
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I don't think they'll kidnap him, though I do think that the likelihood of it is high enough that the Secret Service will make sure that the meeting happens in the DMZ or somewhere that both sides can keep a lock on.
Has there been any word on meeting location? This can't happen in Korea, surely? Nobody is going anywhere near N Korea, and I don't think Kim is going south. China can't work for a 2-way, it undermines them. The only place I can think of is Japan.

Last edited by Riemann; 03-10-2018 at 08:38 PM.
  #35  
Old 03-10-2018, 08:53 PM
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Kim has never left North Korea since he took power. I seriously doubt he will start now.
  #36  
Old 03-10-2018, 09:02 PM
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Well, should Rocket Man attempt to move Orange Thinskin somewhere unscheduled, a whole lot of young men in business suits will register their objections using their .357 and 9mm disapproval devices. Things would get loud.

Of course, it won’t happen. If the meeting takes place, it won’t be in North (or South) Korea. I suspect Riemann is correct in picking Japan. Also, all Kim cares about is that the meeting take place. A face to face meeting with the POTUS (any POTUS) is something the Kim family has wanted for 3 generations. I suspect it won’t be more than a handshake and (most importantly to Kim) a few dozen photos.
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Old 03-10-2018, 09:16 PM
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So, what would happen if [somebody] were to assassinate Kim? The biggest risk would be a failed attempt, but is there really any downside to killing him?
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Old 03-10-2018, 09:26 PM
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So, what would happen if [somebody] were to assassinate Kim? The biggest risk would be a failed attempt, but is there really any downside to killing him?
It depends a bit on who does it and whether they get caught, but there's a chance it results in at least the shelling / nuking of Seoul, so yeah, there's a downside.
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Old 03-10-2018, 09:43 PM
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Much as I am not a fan of the current resident of the White House, he's still our president, and I would not take too kindly to someone kidnapping our president.

No matter how I feel about the person, that sets a terrible precedent for the office.

I would support whatever means are necessary to retrieve him, and should harm befall him, then retaliation (of a non-nuclear form) would be very appropriate.

Anyway, I am sure that Kim knows this, and so this is not a scenario that is likely to be entertained.
Pretty much word for word what I was thinking. We can't allow other countries to kidnap our President, even if he is a really bad President.
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Old 03-10-2018, 10:01 PM
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Allowing the abduction of a bad president would set a bad precedent.
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  #41  
Old 03-10-2018, 10:31 PM
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Allowing the abduction of a bad president would set a bad precedent.
I think the last election set a bad president...
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  #42  
Old 03-10-2018, 10:47 PM
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It depends a bit on who does it and whether they get caught, but there's a chance it results in at least the shelling / nuking of Seoul, so yeah, there's a downside.
Do you think so? I really doubt that whatever leadership emerged after Kim's assassination would feel that avenging his death was a priority, when the only way they have to do achieve it would likely result in devastation to their own country. The cult of personality might play with the masses, but the rest of the leadership know it's all bullshit.

But I wasn't asking the question because I thought the CIA should be tasked with the hit. It was more a question of Kim's thought process. I think he may think this through and feel that we have nothing to lose by assassinating him. Which means he will back out of the meeting.
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Old 03-10-2018, 11:01 PM
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Has there been any word on meeting location? This can't happen in Korea, surely? Nobody is going anywhere near N Korea, and I don't think Kim is going south. China can't work for a 2-way, it undermines them. The only place I can think of is Japan.
Seems to me like the DMZ would be a more ideal location if this ever were to happen.
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Old 03-10-2018, 11:01 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is online now
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Probably nothing. Look at all the stuff North Korea has done so far and gotten away with in the last ~60 years or so.
  • Tried to assassinate the president of South Korea by sending a commando squad into South Korea in 1968.
  • Kidnapped thousands of people from Japan and South Korea (one kidnapping victim said there were several European kidnap victims in North Korea too).
  • Engages in massive crimes. Manufacturing and selling opiates and meth on the international marketplace. Counterfeiting $100 bills. Massive insurance fraud scams.
  • Killed several US soldiers and South Korean soldiers without any retaliation during various disputes.
  • Sold nuclear technology to Syria, Libya, Myanmar. Worked with Iran to build nukes. Sold chemical weapons to Syria.
We can all sit here and say 'this would be war', but the reality is North Korea has already killed and kidnapped a lot of people from the US, South Korea & Japan and nobody does anything. They've tried to assassinate the president of South Korea and nobody did anything.

Also in 1993, Saddam Hussein supported an effort to have George HW Bush assassinated in Kuwait. The US fired a few cruise missiles. This may have played a role in W Bush's decision to go to war in 2003, but still the US response was cruise missiles to an attempted assassination of a US president.

Based on precedent, I'm going to say the US would respond with harsh words and little action. Maybe we bomb a few of Kim's palaces and military installations. But that is about it.
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Last edited by Wesley Clark; 03-10-2018 at 11:06 PM.
  #45  
Old 03-10-2018, 11:22 PM
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Seems to me like the DMZ would be a more ideal location if this ever were to happen.
I don't think a place where two armies are essentially in a permanent tense stand-off is suitable. I think Kim might be willing to do it there, but not Trump. It's not a secure location for our beloved Pres.

Last edited by Riemann; 03-10-2018 at 11:23 PM.
  #46  
Old 03-10-2018, 11:45 PM
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Discussion of locations for the big meeting, should it occur.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/...ry?id=53636067

Some wags are saying that Putin would be happy to host the talks in Moscow.
  #47  
Old 03-10-2018, 11:56 PM
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Discussion of locations for the big meeting, should it occur.
Interesting, thanks. I guess if Kim feels ok with leaving home, there are many possibilities. I was skeptical about Beijing because they didn't broker the thing in the first place, and it feels like they are losing face by just hosting these two narcissists preening their feathers. But maybe that's too superficial and the big picture of stabilizing the peninsula is too important. China is the most important other player in any agreement that comes out of it, so politically it's the logical place.
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Old 03-10-2018, 11:57 PM
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Nah, I'd think fat boy would be more likely to send the old Soviet Body Double to South Korea to meet with Trump, then nuke the place.

I'd almost think it more likely that Trump would do his infamous arm jerk handshake on Kim then grab him and start screaming "I got him! I captured Kim Jong-Un. Get some police in here!" Then later blame the South Koreans for letting him go. After he had singlehandedly solved the North Korea problem by capturing Kim Jung Un!
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Last edited by Chimera; 03-11-2018 at 12:00 AM.
  #49  
Old 03-11-2018, 12:19 AM
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I don't believe they will ever meet. It will get bogged down. If there is anyone left in the Whitehouse with more than shit for brains, that is.
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Old 03-11-2018, 12:41 AM
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I would imagine there would actually BE Muslims celebrating in the streets
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