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Old 03-10-2018, 10:16 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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Why does this woman have a Wiki bio?

And it's a featured article today, too, no less: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Lynch

Hard for me to see what sets her apart from the many thousands of other petty criminals of the past century or so and makes her Wiki-worthy.
  #2  
Old 03-10-2018, 10:51 PM
mhendo mhendo is offline
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Yeah, there's really not much in the article that suggests why this woman might be relevant for inclusion in an encyclopedia.

The article was only created a few weeks ago, and someone else has asked the creator basically the same question.
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Old 03-10-2018, 10:52 PM
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There was a short note saying that her name is very similar to that of a television actress, directing readers to look at another link if they are searching for the latter. Someone may be playing a joke.
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Old 03-11-2018, 01:00 AM
MichaelEmouse MichaelEmouse is offline
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Tangentially, does she look 10-15 years older to other people?

Drinking yourself to death by 28 is quite a feat.
  #5  
Old 03-11-2018, 03:28 AM
Aspidistra Aspidistra is online now
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There's actually three of them that make up a set:

Lily Argent

Selina Rushbrook

Not that really answers the original question...
  #6  
Old 03-11-2018, 03:36 AM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is offline
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Is this maybe a bid for publicity by the Swansea Chamber of Commerce and Visitors Bureau (”Historic Swansea: Definitely Important Enough to Boast Notable Denizens Citizens Since 1908”)?
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Old 03-11-2018, 04:09 AM
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I’m confused. I thought anyone could start a wiki page for anyone. Anytime.

Is that not how it works? Can I not compose a page about you, if I so desire?

If the answer is yes, then why the surprise that there is a wiki page for, well, anyone really?
  #8  
Old 03-11-2018, 04:22 AM
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I’m confused. I thought anyone could start a wiki page for anyone. Anytime.
No, there's a notability requirement.
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Old 03-11-2018, 04:41 AM
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Wow, thanks for that! I had no idea, I thought literally anyone could create a page about themselves or their friend.

I know a few people with wiki pages and I always assumed it was just something their friends pursued for mostly their own amusement. Don’t get me wrong, these ARE accomplished people with notoriety in their fields.

It seems I incorrectly thought if you’re NOT a household name, you’re wiki page is probably mostly a vanity project, by your friends or colleagues.

Clearly I was mistaken. Thanks for the learning.
  #10  
Old 03-11-2018, 05:00 AM
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There was a short note saying that her name is very similar to that of a television actress, directing readers to look at another link if they are searching for the latter. Someone may be playing a joke.
Is that why this is in Cafe Society?
  #11  
Old 03-11-2018, 07:36 AM
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She might be trying to become a celebrity, but she isn't one yet. Which takes this out of the perview of CS. IMHO, I guess?
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Old 03-11-2018, 08:33 AM
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This was my first thought when I read it.

And why is this linked on the front page?

It's not even April 1st.

The "notability" thing is weird. I've seen articles about people I've heard of marked as up for deletion due to lack of notability. And I've seen articles listing the members of a 1930s Olympic basketball (or some such) team for some country.
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Old 03-11-2018, 09:20 AM
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You can vote for the article's retention or deletion on this Wikipedia page. I argued for its deletion.
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Old 03-11-2018, 09:35 AM
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Speaking of the Internet generally, rather than Wikipedia specifically, it's curious how people from centuries ago are often better represented than people from, say, sixty years ago.

For example, many towns published little "Who's who in our town" books in the late 19th century and, due to fans of genealogy or Americana lore, some of these have been digitized and those relatively obscure "who's who" people (he ran a small hardware store — whippee!) show up with Google. Some 20th-century people far more notable than those get zero Google hits.

Due to social media and career-oriented websites, 21st-century people can also be Googled ... but there's a big hole in the middle of the 20th century! The key inventor of IBM's magnetic disk drive? He was interviewed for the Computer History Museum so gets at least that hit, but has no Wikipedia page; in fact no mention at Wikipedia at all. In fact there are some Silicon Valley companies from the 1970's or so which were very notable in their day but get almost Zero hits from Google.
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Old 03-11-2018, 09:56 AM
Merneith Merneith is offline
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All three of the women served at Swansea Prison and each wiki page includes a bibliography referencing a single book, Swansea's 'Bad Girls': Crime and Prostitution, 1870s-1914, by Elizabeth F. Belcham. The book is currently sitting unremarked on Amazon with a $93.35 price tag.

I expect "someone" is trying to goose her sales figures.


Mind you, I'd probably read that book, if I could get it on Kindle at a non-laughable price.

Last edited by Merneith; 03-11-2018 at 09:58 AM.
  #16  
Old 03-11-2018, 10:58 AM
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No, there's a notability requirement.
So, somehow falling down a well is notable?
  #17  
Old 03-11-2018, 11:35 AM
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So, somehow falling down a well is notable?
The fact that she did, almost definitely not. The fact that the operation to rescue her was followed worldwide, and covered on live TV? Yes, that was notable.
  #18  
Old 03-11-2018, 12:28 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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And it's a featured article today, too, no less: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catherine_Lynch
Nitpick but it's not a featured article. Today's featured article is on "Douglas MacArthur's escape from the Philippines". The article in question is in the Did you know . . ." section of the main page and that just calls out new articles or ones that have been majorly updated. It's not actually that easy to achieve featured article status.

As to the notability of the article, I think it's actually kind of cool that someone that ordinary from that long ago can be documented that well. And it's interesting as a picture of a normal person from the period. It's not as if there's any limitation on the number of articles that can be published in Wikipedia, so I'd vote to keep it.
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Old 03-11-2018, 01:03 PM
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I was tempted to click on the link to Whatsername's Wiki page, but it occurred to me that every click adds to her supposed notability.
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  #20  
Old 03-11-2018, 03:35 PM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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Thanks, all. Just one more wonder of the Age of Wiki.
  #21  
Old 03-11-2018, 04:48 PM
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Thanks, all. Just one more wonder of the Age of Wiki.
Look at the first thing on the page:

The topic of this article may not meet Wikipedia's notability guideline for biographies. Please help to establish notability by citing reliable secondary sources that are independent of the topic and provide significant coverage of it beyond its mere trivial mention
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  #22  
Old 03-11-2018, 06:16 PM
Majestic Lee Majestic Lee is offline
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I was just amazed that someone so young (28) could look so old. That's the power of alcohol I suppose...
  #23  
Old 03-11-2018, 06:32 PM
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So, somehow falling down a well is notable?
I think most adults in the US will remember the story instantly, if not the name. It was followed hour by hour on the news.

Dennis
  #24  
Old 03-11-2018, 06:36 PM
Smapti Smapti is offline
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I think most adults in the US will remember the story instantly, if not the name. It was followed hour by hour on the news.

Dennis
It dropped out of the headlines after the Lincoln squirrel was assassinated, though.
  #25  
Old 03-11-2018, 07:43 PM
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I was just amazed that someone so young (28) could look so old. That's the power of alcohol I suppose...
I suspect that most people looked older in that era, in general. Harder life, more toxins in the environment in general, and fancier clothes.
  #26  
Old 03-11-2018, 08:17 PM
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So, somehow falling down a well is notable?
I knew that link was going to be about Baby Jessica, so in this case: yup.
  #27  
Old 03-11-2018, 08:31 PM
Ace309 Ace309 is online now
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I was tempted to click on the link to Whatsername's Wiki page, but it occurred to me that every click adds to her supposed notability.
That’s not how the notability criterion works, of course.
  #28  
Old 03-11-2018, 11:11 PM
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It's an interesting story at least. What a hard life. I don't know how old she was in that photo but she died at 28, same as my daughter whose life seems to be just beginning.

ETA Oh wow she was only 25 in the photo. She looks older than me and I'm 48!

Last edited by Rushgeekgirl; 03-11-2018 at 11:12 PM.
  #29  
Old 03-12-2018, 12:50 AM
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I swear I saw this image on CNN Sunday morning. They were interviewing an author who has written about women who are notorious. Juxtaposed against famous women who were skipped over in NYTs obits. One was Sylvia Plath, another was a Bronte sister. That's all I remember.

Last edited by Beckdawrek; 03-12-2018 at 12:51 AM.
  #30  
Old 03-12-2018, 03:47 AM
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Depends on who you are, as the author. I started a Wiki page on a friend of mine a few years ago, and it was rejected because, as I was told, he was not important enough. A year later, there was a boringly long and detailed Wiki page on him, created by one of his colleagues. Most of it praising the collaborative work he and the contributing colleague had done.
  #31  
Old 03-12-2018, 03:53 AM
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I have a friend who ought to have a wikipedia page, he's a known entertainer in his country, and has done several medium-profile things on TV. I thought about making it myself, but I haven't hung out with him in over 15 years, so my knowledge of his exploits are a bit thin. I figure I wouldn't be the best person to do it.

But now I'm thinking maybe he's not quite at the level he would have to be to have his page retained. He'd probably be marked for deletion pretty quickly.
  #32  
Old 03-12-2018, 04:04 AM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is offline
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She might be trying to become a celebrity, but she isn't one yet.
Considering she’s been dead for more than a hundred years, I’d say time’s running out for her. She’d better get a move on!
  #33  
Old 03-12-2018, 04:12 AM
Spectre of Pithecanthropus Spectre of Pithecanthropus is offline
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Speaking of the Internet generally, rather than Wikipedia specifically, it's curious how people from centuries ago are often better represented than people from, say, sixty years ago.
This is related to the moving goalpost of the public domain. As one who is interested in various aspects of early twentieth century urban America, I have watched with dismay as books have stayed under copyright when, if not for recent changes in the laws, would have fallen into the public domain years ago. (This all has something to do with Disney not wanting Mickey Mouse to ever become public domain; the company was one of the prime movers of the new law). Given that much searchable text online is based on published works, the lack of public domain rights from about 1923 until today is one reason behind that "big hole".
Quote:
For example, many towns published little "Who's who in our town" books in the late 19th century and, due to fans of genealogy or Americana lore, some of these have been digitized and those relatively obscure "who's who" people (he ran a small hardware store — whippee!) show up with Google. Some 20th-century people far more notable than those get zero Google hits.

Due to social media and career-oriented websites, 21st-century people can also be Googled ... but there's a big hole in the middle of the 20th century! The key inventor of IBM's magnetic disk drive? He was interviewed for the Computer History Museum so gets at least that hit, but has no Wikipedia page; in fact no mention at Wikipedia at all. In fact there are some Silicon Valley companies from the 1970's or so which were very notable in their day but get almost Zero hits from Google.
Google is terrible at finding old products, places, or companies that were bestowed with common English words for names, even if at the time of conception the names were understood in context by everyone. This happens with many old software products that may have had names like BASIS and STAIRS. Or companies whose names were simply what they did, like System Development Corporation. The fact that Elon Musk decided to call his tunnel drilling venture the Boring Company suggests that the strain may be getting to him. It's as if Howard Hughes had decided to name his company just "Aircraft". As for places, the L.A. community where I used to live is Palms, which again is nearly impossible to google. (If only they'd decided to name it Las Palmas!).
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  #34  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:38 AM
Elendil's Heir Elendil's Heir is offline
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Considering she’s been dead for more than a hundred years, I’d say time’s running out for her. She’d better get a move on!
She's not dead yet!

Oh, wait. Never mind. She is.
  #35  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:56 AM
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The fact that the operation to rescue her was followed worldwide, and covered on live TV? Yes, that was notable.
Well, Baby Jessica gave CNN something to create a 24 hour news cycle, before Gulf War I cemented it.

To be honest, I figured that Ms. Driscoll / Mrs. Lynch was going to have had her fame as the poor child who lost her father in a crane accident. But that was not the case. It seems that her wiki was done by family who knew the whole story. Or maybe some random person on the internet was able to piece together a persons life with searches of old newspaper archives. At the very least, the last article is interesting in how men were encouraged to 'put away' women who fell victim to the evils of alcohol.
  #36  
Old 03-12-2018, 11:39 AM
mhendo mhendo is offline
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To be honest, I figured that Ms. Driscoll / Mrs. Lynch was going to have had her fame as the poor child who lost her father in a crane accident. But that was not the case. It seems that her wiki was done by family who knew the whole story. Or maybe some random person on the internet was able to piece together a persons life with searches of old newspaper archives. At the very least, the last article is interesting in how men were encouraged to 'put away' women who fell victim to the evils of alcohol.
Actually, i think Merneith is probably closer to the real explanation for how this article made it to Wikipedia:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merneith View Post
All three of the women served at Swansea Prison and each wiki page includes a bibliography referencing a single book, Swansea's 'Bad Girls': Crime and Prostitution, 1870s-1914, by Elizabeth F. Belcham. The book is currently sitting unremarked on Amazon with a $93.35 price tag.

I expect "someone" is trying to goose her sales figures.
  #37  
Old 03-12-2018, 11:49 AM
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Half Man Half Wit Half Man Half Wit is offline
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Perhaps this came out of somebody's master thesis research, or something similar?

ETA: Looking at the references, most of the data seems to be from Swansea's 'Bad Girls': Crime and Prostitution 1870s–1914 by one Elizabeth F. Belcham. So the author perhaps wanted to share some of her research, or maybe it's a publicity stunt for the book, or something like that.

Last edited by Half Man Half Wit; 03-12-2018 at 11:53 AM.
  #38  
Old 03-12-2018, 11:55 AM
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Nevermind, now I see Merneith above already mentioned that.
  #39  
Old 03-12-2018, 11:57 AM
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The fact that Elon Musk decided to call his tunnel drilling venture the Boring Company suggests that the strain may be getting to him.
I'm pretty sure that name is a play on words, and that nobody is going to have trouble finding information about it if they just use quotation marks to look it up.
  #40  
Old 03-13-2018, 05:24 AM
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The notability requirement is quite rubbery, as individual projects have their own guidelines, which leads to valid articles such as this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Allen
  #41  
Old 03-13-2018, 07:55 AM
mhendo mhendo is offline
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The notability requirement is quite rubbery, as individual projects have their own guidelines, which leads to valid articles such as this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Allen
Jesus. He's so notable, we apparently don't even know his first name.

I grew up watching the New South Wales Rugby League competition, and in my most starry-eyed, football-loving youth i don't think i ever would have cared who A Allen was.
  #42  
Old 03-14-2018, 12:40 AM
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I've created a few Wikipedia articles for notable people, and my personal rule was always to have at least six references in the first version to stay ahead of the deletionists.
  #43  
Old 03-14-2018, 10:22 PM
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I'm pretty sure that name is a play on words, and that nobody is going to have trouble finding information about it if they just use quotation marks to look it up.
Yeah, I've definitely made a joke about drilling tunnels being "boring". One thing that's interesting though is finance charges on loans.
  #44  
Old 03-15-2018, 02:32 PM
aceplace57 aceplace57 is online now
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I know what's considered beautiful changes from generation to generation.

I still have trouble believing this entry in her bio. I guess hard drinking ages everyone.


Quote:
next few years was regularly convicted of prostitution, 

Last edited by aceplace57; 03-15-2018 at 02:35 PM.
  #45  
Old 03-15-2018, 05:50 PM
pulykamell pulykamell is offline
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I know what's considered beautiful changes from generation to generation.

I still have trouble believing this entry in her bio. I guess hard drinking ages everyone.
I think you have a rather, shall I say, idealistic idea of what an average prostitute looks like. She would not look out-of-place as a Chicago streetwalker.
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Old 03-15-2018, 09:01 PM
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I think you have a rather, shall I say, idealistic idea of what an average prostitute looks like. She would not look out-of-place as a Chicago streetwalker.
I've never patronized them, but from what I understand, any really attractive street prostitute is either in drag or a cop.
  #47  
Old 03-15-2018, 09:02 PM
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Based on the actual deletion discussion, it seems that it's because someone wrote a book about her. The argument is whether this one book is enough to make her notable.
  #48  
Old 03-15-2018, 09:16 PM
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I know what's considered beautiful changes from generation to generation.

I still have trouble believing this entry in her bio. I guess hard drinking ages everyone.
Oh, come on. You'd hit it, Amiright?

Inaheartbeat?
  #49  
Old 03-15-2018, 10:31 PM
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Fraid not.

She's not my type.

Last edited by aceplace57; 03-15-2018 at 10:31 PM.
  #50  
Old 03-15-2018, 11:07 PM
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Come on guys, she used to be somebodies little girl.
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