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Old 03-12-2018, 12:44 AM
BloodStalk BloodStalk is offline
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Should I be friends with this person in the seduction community?

So I've been chatting with someone for some time now and I recently found out they are a part of the 'seduction' community. I hear that community has a bad rep due to its views on women. However, he says he doesn't hold views that like and told me this:

"I would say that maybe the best way to think about it is that there are a lot of ways to accomplish a single task, and in the case of the seduction stuff the "goal" is to have women like you. How do we know a woman likes you? Well for some they would say sex is the ultimate sign that a woman likes you. Therefore some people choose to believe that the more you sleep with women the more "successful" you are.
The original task I think is perfectly fine, wanting to be liked/loved is a natural thing we all want, but you can see how twisted that goal can become over time. So those that are the most visible and have the most "success" are often those that boast about the amount of women they have slept with. These people rarely care about if they harm the girl, only the fact that they slept with them, thus they do dishonest things to get them there.
In a lot of ways it's like how if a person voted republican then you assume they are an idiot cause they voted for Trump, but not everybody who is republican is an idiot, it's just the most vocal people give the group a bad name.
I would argue that the majority of the people who are interested in seduction come from a background of having great insecurities with women. At some point you may even think talking to a woman is offending them because they roll their eyes at you when you come and say hi. This is why I believe in a lot of the principles because it teaches you why come off so creepy when you say hi, why girls don't like you, and how to improve at those things. How is your smile, are you well groomed, are you a good story teller, did you misread another persons body language? You learn a lot, and I honestly think you come out happier, but yes there are some lemons in the community too"

So I was wondering, should I associate with this person?
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:49 AM
Isamu Isamu is offline
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Are you female?
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Old 03-12-2018, 01:28 AM
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Throws up redflags. I would be wary.
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Old 03-12-2018, 02:19 AM
Two Many Cats Two Many Cats is offline
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Sounds like an incredible jerk to me.
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Old 03-12-2018, 02:34 AM
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Any thread starting with, "Should I..." means you probably shouldn't.

Leaving alone the possibility that you are trolling for max effect of course.
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Old 03-12-2018, 05:15 AM
BloodStalk BloodStalk is offline
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No, I'm a guy. I've established that before. I'm just not sure I want to be associated with someone who was part of something that treated women this way,
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Old 03-12-2018, 05:40 AM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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I saw some movie or TV show (or maybe even read it in a book) where a couple of women captured a PUA that had taken advantage of both of them and intended (but I don't think actually carried it out for some reason or another) to get one of those burnable incense sticks and shove it up his urethra, then break it into pieces.

Something to keep in mind.
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Old 03-12-2018, 07:15 AM
DrFidelius DrFidelius is offline
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You can be friends with whomever you like, but don't start emulating those misogynistic losers regardless of how much they flatter or lie to you.
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  #9  
Old 03-12-2018, 07:16 AM
madmonk28 madmonk28 is online now
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No, for one, I assume he's probably 12 years old or has the mentality of a 12yo. Anyone who is part of something called "the Seduction Community" is pretty weird. Life's too short.
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Old 03-12-2018, 07:23 AM
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Any thread starting with, "Should I..." means you probably shouldn't.
kambuckta's Law?

And I agree.
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Old 03-12-2018, 07:27 AM
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Me too.
  #12  
Old 03-12-2018, 07:48 AM
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No, I'm a guy. I've established that before.
Pays to check and confirm periodically.
  #13  
Old 03-12-2018, 08:45 AM
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You shouldn't be friends with anyone in the seduction community, so no.
  #14  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:03 AM
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“Seduction community”, is a hilarious phrase! But it’s realky just turd polishing of PUA, I see.

It’s like calling duck hunters, “fowl whisperers”.
  #15  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:24 AM
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He sounds like a douchebag. To be honest, he was a douchebag even before he decided to join this community of like minded douchebags. So I'd ridicule him and call him a douchebag. And then I wouldn't be caught dead hanging out with the douchebag, because I would not want anyone mistaking me for being one of those douchebags.
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  #16  
Old 03-12-2018, 09:25 AM
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“Seduction community”, is a hilarious phrase! But it’s realky just turd polishing of PUA, I see.

It’s like calling duck hunters, “fowl whisperers”.
+1

there is nothing worse than a turd someone tried to polish.
  #17  
Old 03-12-2018, 10:05 AM
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"Hey, a FRIEND OF MINE is really fucked up....should I be FRIENDS with this person?"

You're starting to become a bit of a one-trick pony, OP.
  #18  
Old 03-12-2018, 10:24 AM
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"Hey, a FRIEND OF MINE is really fucked up....should I be FRIENDS with this person?"

You're starting to become a bit of a one-trick pony, OP.
Oh he's not starting - he's started, run the full distance, crossed the finish line and is now drinking Gatorade in the locker room.

It would be really fucking nice if he would participate in his own threads.
  #19  
Old 03-12-2018, 10:26 AM
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Too busy training and carb loading to start the next one.
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  #20  
Old 03-12-2018, 10:50 AM
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He claims he's not part of the community anymore as he told me he's in a stable relationship and that he does disagree with the idea of treating women in a misogynistic fashion, but I am still wary.
  #21  
Old 03-12-2018, 11:10 AM
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Chances are there's no person out there that matches ALL of your values in lockstep. The question then is how important is value X to you & how much of it is a factor in your relationship w/ that other person.

His views on women are different than yours & it came up in one conversation, You may not like it but it's not necessarily a deal breaker. His views on women are different than yours & that's many/most of our conversations, well that's a bigger deal. His views on women are different than yours & he wants you to go to pick-up bars with him? Maybe that shouldn't happen.
  #22  
Old 03-12-2018, 11:23 AM
BloodStalk BloodStalk is offline
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Still, I'm unsure as I don't want to feel like I'm turning a blind eye to something like this.
  #23  
Old 03-12-2018, 11:23 AM
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So he's not in the "seduction community" then?

Look - be friends with him if you want to or don't be friends with him if you don't want to. If you become friends with him because he seems genuine and non-misogynistic and later discover that he's actually a philandering abusive asshole, you are legally allowed to stop being friends with him. If you are concerned that there are signs he is actually a philandering abusive asshole now and you don't want the potential drama in your life, then walk away now, but we can't tell you what your own risk tolerance for these things is.

As for the purported argument in the OP, there is certainly value in learning how to better interact with the opposite sex in a way that keeps one from coming across as a creepy jerk. But treating women as objects to be won, or basing one's self-worth on the number of women slept with, will not bring anyone happiness in the long run and will cause a lot of unhappiness in the meantime (albeit punctuated by the occasional orgasm). And the lemon-to-nonlemon ratio in the "seduction community" is not a good one. Perhaps your potential friend is one of the rare nonlemons, but only you can judge that for yourself.
  #24  
Old 03-12-2018, 11:24 AM
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Let's see. This friend wants women to "like" him, so he sets out to learn the tricks of seduction. But only so he can use his powers for good.

Could he possibly be talking about things like:

Get you out of a mental rut, give you new thoughts, new visions, new ambitions.
Enable you to make friends quickly and easily.
Increase your popularity.
Help you to win people to your way of thinking.
Increase your influence, your prestige, your ability to get things done.
Increase your earning power.
Help you to handle complaints, avoid arguments, keep your human contacts smooth and pleasant.
Make you a better speaker, a more entertaining conversationalist.
Help you to arouse enthusiasm among your associates.

Because those are the things Dale Carnegie talked about when he wrote How to Win Friends and Influence People back in 1936. Your friend (and you) can find copies of it everywhere, with translations in dozens of languages. You can even tell women you're reading it without them thinking you're a skeevy pick up artist who's only interested in women so far as he can manipulate them into having sex. Perhaps you should find out why your friend chose the other path to self-improvement.

Last edited by kunilou; 03-12-2018 at 11:25 AM.
  #25  
Old 03-12-2018, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodStalk View Post
He claims he's not part of the community anymore as he told me he's in a stable relationship and that he does disagree with the idea of treating women in a misogynistic fashion, but I am still wary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodStalk View Post
Still, I'm unsure as I don't want to feel like I'm turning a blind eye to something like this.
So there's no problem but you're going to create one?

Good plan.
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Last edited by QuickSilver; 03-12-2018 at 11:42 AM.
  #26  
Old 03-12-2018, 11:44 AM
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Let's see, a person who is a habitual liar. Who treats people like objects.

"You have a cat? Well, I like cats, too. <smirk>"

You wouldn't be a friend. You're going to be someone who is lied to and gets used.
  #27  
Old 03-12-2018, 12:16 PM
BloodStalk BloodStalk is offline
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I'm a guy. Second, on reddit, he still does post on r/seduction, which is why I was wary.
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Old 03-12-2018, 01:19 PM
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I'm a guy. Second, on reddit, he still does post on r/seduction, which is why I was wary.
a) If you don't approve of the practice, why are you following the subreddit? Recreational outrage?
b) Why are you stalking him?
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  #29  
Old 03-12-2018, 02:17 PM
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A person is known by the company they keep.

Should I be friends with a skinhead even though I don't subscribe to their beliefs? Sure you can, just don't be surprised when rumors start going around that you're a white supremacist.

The same holds for any malodorous group IMHO.
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  #30  
Old 03-12-2018, 02:24 PM
BloodStalk BloodStalk is offline
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a) If you don't approve of the practice, why are you following the subreddit? Recreational outrage?
b) Why are you stalking him?

I was checking his reddit to view his comments to see if he posted anything sketchy.
  #31  
Old 03-12-2018, 02:34 PM
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I was checking his reddit to view his comments to see if he posted anything sketchy.
Why?
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  #32  
Old 03-12-2018, 03:26 PM
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Why?
See answer B.
  #33  
Old 03-12-2018, 03:30 PM
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I have one friend who suddenly became quite interested in the whole PUA thing some years ago (probably more than a decade now). Mostly noticeable when he started giving Neil Strauss books to his (single) friends on birthdays and explaining the concepts of "negging" and "peacocking"; probably because our reactions were mostly "are you for real?". When going clubbing we really didn't notice much, besides him wearing silly shirts and him wanting to go to hip places. In the end, as far as I know, the first girl he was successful with (as in: a date with good chemistry) is now his wife and the mother of his child.

He is a stand up guy and we (me and other friends) never took his interest in that PUA stuff too seriously. I don't think he was too successful with women before all this, so it probably was an attempt to make something happen with the opposite sex. But that is just making assumptions. In any case: having had some interest in the whole PUA thing does not disqualify someone as a decent human being for the rest of their lives.
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Old 03-12-2018, 03:35 PM
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Why?
How can the OP post a "Let's you and him fight by proxy" post if he doesn't give one side ammunition?
  #35  
Old 03-12-2018, 05:30 PM
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This poor guy is sick
  #36  
Old 03-12-2018, 06:07 PM
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What is appealing about a potential friendship with this guy?
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Old 03-12-2018, 09:22 PM
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They said it's fair that the general view of pick up artist is scumm, so I don't think they are part of the misogynistic aspect of it?
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Old 03-13-2018, 06:27 AM
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How would a relationship with this person improve your life?
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  #39  
Old 03-13-2018, 07:10 AM
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Sorry, I just can't get past the name, The Seduction Community. It's the first time I heard it. The Seduction Community, AKA jerking off in to a tube sock while quietly weeping.
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:41 AM
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Perhaps the OP's potential friend has been practising his manipulation techniques on the OP. Has he been negging you and peacocking at you?
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  #41  
Old 03-13-2018, 09:11 AM
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They said it's fair that the general view of pick up artist is scumm, so I don't think they are part of the misogynistic aspect of it?
WTH does this even mean?
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  #42  
Old 03-13-2018, 10:36 AM
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I have a lot of friends, some of them rather unusual, and don't associate with people who refuse to consider all of my friends fully human. So I'm not going to hang out with any "God hate fags" types, no matter how they dress it up in "love the sinner hate the sin" language. The PUA community, even if they call themselves the 'seduction' community now, doesn't treat women as fully human, and so I wouldn't want to be around them since (unlike a lot of PUAs) I have a lot of female friends. It's not just the idea that sex is the only thing that matters about relationships with women, there's also a whole bunch of evo-psych nonsense, outright misogyny, extremely anti-queer bias, and a host of other awful ideas. If someone read some PUA books and picked the non-awful stuff out of them, or toyed with the idea of becoming one at some point I wouldn't care, but if they're involved enough that they're making apologies for the toxic community (it's not just 'a few lemons') then they clearly don't have compatible views with me.
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Old 03-13-2018, 03:08 PM
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For now, I'll give this guy a chance. As long as he doesn't view women badly or anything, he'll be ok with me.
  #44  
Old 03-13-2018, 04:48 PM
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What is appealing about a potential friendship with this guy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodStalk View Post
They said it's fair that the general view of pick up artist is scumm, so I don't think they are part of the misogynistic aspect of it?
I'm gonna assume that since mine was the previous post before yours, you must have been responding to me with this, um, collection of words here? Let me try to paraphrase then, why be friends with this guy in the first place?
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Old 03-13-2018, 04:50 PM
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For now, I'll give this guy a chance. As long as he doesn't view women badly or anything, he'll be ok with me.
But why? Why give this guy a chance and not every single other guy you come in contact with ever whom you don't consider convincingly evil?

Last edited by Ambivalid; 03-13-2018 at 04:51 PM.
  #46  
Old 03-13-2018, 04:55 PM
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I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the "Seduction Community" honed their skills using some variety of the "Girlfriend Experience".
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:23 PM
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I would be stunned if any member of the Seduction Community had ever seen a naked woman who wasn’t pixilated.
  #48  
Old 03-13-2018, 05:24 PM
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Sounds like he's so far into it, he's lost touch with his ability to feel shame. Does he wear a fedora?

Last edited by tvaetbjorn; 03-13-2018 at 05:24 PM.
  #49  
Old 03-13-2018, 06:07 PM
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I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the "Seduction Community" honed their skills using some variety of the "Girlfriend Experience".
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmonk28 View Post
I would be stunned if any member of the Seduction Community had ever seen a naked woman who wasn’t pixilated.
Actually you're probably right. Paying for sex is only for losers.
  #50  
Old 03-15-2018, 09:58 AM
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I would be stunned if any member of the Seduction Community had ever seen a naked woman who wasn’t pixilated.
It's fun to insult them, but the idea that they're all so repulsive that no women come near them simply isn't true. A lot of them do manage to find women that their techniques work on, though the problem is that most of the techniques really only work on someone who's vulnerable and in a bad place for other reasons. Also some of them are mostly-functional guys who have successfully dated normally but get into it hoping to have an endless stream of hot babes on their arm. There were a pair of successful pick-up artists who basically wrecked their business and life when what they intended as a private blog about their conquests got discovered and made public

https://www.thecut.com/2016/01/jared...ist-c-v-r.html

(Also for context, Asheville NC is basically the place where all of the hippies in the state who want to live in the mountains congregate, so it's much more progressive than you'd expect from its size and location.)
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