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Old 03-12-2018, 07:47 AM
Blalron Blalron is offline
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Women: are you turned off if a man asks to kiss you?

One problem I have with certain segments of the #MeToo movement is the idea that you need explicit verbal consent to initiate physical contact. I'm a man who honestly wouldn't mind doing that. In fact, I'd be okay with signing a written notarized document if that's what it took to get laid.

My concern is that actually attempting to implement this ideal in the real world will lead to a lot of unnecessary rejections. I've heard anecdotally from women that they like a man who "just goes for it." I worry that women who would otherwise find me attractive would be turned off by the timidity of verbally requesting a kiss, preferring to date a more assertive man.

I'd like to hear feedback from women on this issue.
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Old 03-12-2018, 07:52 AM
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Yes.
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Old 03-12-2018, 08:04 AM
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Women: are you turned off if a man asks to kiss you?

Depends on the man and if I wanted to kiss him too.

Last edited by IvoryTowerDenizen; 03-12-2018 at 08:04 AM.
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Old 03-12-2018, 08:15 AM
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Depends on the man and if I wanted to kiss him too.
If you didn't want to kiss him, you're "turned off" already, aren't you?
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Old 03-12-2018, 08:29 AM
ZPG Zealot ZPG Zealot is offline
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The only men who have tried to kiss me and not been kicked in the testicles have always politely asked permission. There is nothing that turns me off faster than a man who thinks he has a right to touch my body without permission.

Last edited by ZPG Zealot; 03-12-2018 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 03-12-2018, 08:35 AM
Blalron Blalron is offline
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The only men who have tried to kiss me and not been kicked in the testicles have always politely asked permission. There is nothing that turns me off faster than a man who thinks he has a right to touch my body without permission.
This is the dilemma that many men face. If we do ask for explicit verbal consent, the mere act of asking could cause us to be rejected as a romantic partner. If we don't ask, we might get kicked in the balls.

Involuntary celibacy, or the risk of getting kicked in the balls. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.

Last edited by Blalron; 03-12-2018 at 08:36 AM.
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Old 03-12-2018, 08:46 AM
Snarky_Kong Snarky_Kong is offline
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This is the dilemma that many men face. If we do ask for explicit verbal consent, the mere act of asking could cause us to be rejected as a romantic partner. If we don't ask, we might get kicked in the balls.

Involuntary celibacy, or the risk of getting kicked in the balls. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
Just an FYI, she thinks handshakes are rape, so attempting to generalize her opinions might not be that informative.
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Old 03-12-2018, 08:48 AM
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The only men who have tried to kiss me and not been kicked in the testicles have always politely asked permission. There is nothing that turns me off faster than a man who thinks he has a right to touch my body without permission.
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Originally Posted by Blalron View Post
This is the dilemma that many men face. If we do ask for explicit verbal consent, the mere act of asking could cause us to be rejected as a romantic partner. If we don't ask, we might get kicked in the balls.

Involuntary celibacy, or the risk of getting kicked in the balls. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
ZPG Zealot isn't quite representative of what you might think of as a "normal girl".
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Old 03-12-2018, 08:54 AM
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Involuntary celibacy
*winces*

Ahh man you had to go there. Smh. Sad son!
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Old 03-12-2018, 09:08 AM
Shodan Shodan is offline
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You only get kicked in the balls if you read the situation wrong.

But yes - asking makes you look weak, and kissing her when she doesn't want to be kissed makes you a jerk. There is no solution, other than learning how to read the situation. It does no good to complain about it. It's just how it is.

Regards,
Shodan, who has only kissed one person romantically in the past thirty-six years, and that was without any signed forms
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Old 03-12-2018, 09:11 AM
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This is the dilemma that many men face. If we do ask for explicit verbal consent, the mere act of asking could cause us to be rejected as a romantic partner. If we don't ask, we might get kicked in the balls.

Involuntary celibacy, or the risk of getting kicked in the balls. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
I've never had this issue with women. Not once, not ever. No male friend I know has had this problem either. If a woman wants you to kiss her, you'll know. If you're not sure, wait until you are sure. If it never happens, it's because she doesn't want you touching/kissing her. If this has to be explained to an adult man, perhaps the problem isn't with the woman's inscrutability; perhaps the problem is you.
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Old 03-12-2018, 09:16 AM
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But yes - asking makes you look weak...
WTF? I know you're not new. No it doesn't.
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Old 03-12-2018, 09:19 AM
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One problem I have with certain segments of the #MeToo movement is the idea that you need explicit verbal consent to initiate physical contact.
I'm sure some group, somewhere, has taken this position, but a cite, perhaps?

It doesn't seem to me, from the male POV, that this dance is very complicated. If there seem to be some mutual sparks, you kiss her at an opportune moment. If she kisses back like she's been waiting for you to kiss her, you keep going as long as she's enthusiastically returning your passion. If her response is tepid, or if she tries to dodge your kiss altogether, you back off and apologize.

All you have to do is pay attention to her, and not blow through obvious signals that she is less than happy with where or how far you're taking things.
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Old 03-12-2018, 09:52 AM
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I'm sure some group, somewhere, has taken this position, but a cite, perhaps?

It doesn't seem to me, from the male POV, that this dance is very complicated. If there seem to be some mutual sparks, you kiss her at an opportune moment. If she kisses back like she's been waiting for you to kiss her, you keep going as long as she's enthusiastically returning your passion. If her response is tepid, or if she tries to dodge your kiss altogether, you back off and apologize.

All you have to do is pay attention to her, and not blow through obvious signals that she is less than happy with where or how far you're taking things.
It's not complicated to know when to kiss someone, you just have to know when to kiss them! "The opportune moment" and "it's obvious" are highly subjective.

You view occasional unwanted kisses as no big deal. I'm curious if that view is widely shared. I imagine it's more widely shared among men than women.
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Old 03-12-2018, 09:56 AM
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WTF? I know you're not new. No it doesn't.
The very first response to this thread would disagree with you (or at least says that it's a mood killer)
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:02 AM
Not a Platypus Not a Platypus is offline
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No, it doesn't turn me off. It's certainly better than a guy I don't want to kiss just going for it. Once we've gotten to the point where kissing is established, however, I'd rather not have to continue being asked. That would get old very quick.
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:04 AM
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I've never had this issue with women. Not once, not ever. No male friend I know has had this problem either. If a woman wants you to kiss her, you'll know. If you're not sure, wait until you are sure. If it never happens, it's because she doesn't want you touching/kissing her. If this has to be explained to an adult man, perhaps the problem isn't with the woman's inscrutability; perhaps the problem is you.
This.
I've kissed my share of women, but I've never asked and never been rebuffed. Are you guys walking up to strangers and attempting mouth-to-mouth?
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:10 AM
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The very first response to this thread would disagree with you (or at least says that it's a mood killer)
Exceptions to every rule but my bet is she's been asked wrong. If you wait until you know she absolutely does, asking can be a nice tease or playful segway.

Look, if you people need kissing lessons, I'm going to open a booth and start charging.
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:13 AM
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Look, if you people need kissing lessons, I'm going to open a booth and start charging.
Eh, I'm married and not particularly worried about how random women feel about kissing. Just saying that the first answer (and really, the second) suggest that your opinion isn't universal. Which isn't really surprising that there's a range of opinions about how women prefer this stuff happens.
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:13 AM
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There is "asking" that is non-verbal and that is reality more often. Eye contact, a slight lean in with slight head tilt and a pause. The non-verbal response is the answer. Looking away or turning away is a no and leaning towards you back is a yes. Lack of interest thus expressed is pretty obvious and easy to read (and, as I recall, painful).

So of course always "ask" ... and if you are not sure the question was understood or not sure you understand the answer, then ask again verbally, or just take that lack of clarity as your answer: "no".
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:29 AM
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It's not complicated to know when to kiss someone, you just have to know when to kiss them! "The opportune moment" and "it's obvious" are highly subjective.
Well yeah, but that's not the topic of discussion here. It's "do you ask first?" I'm saying 'no you don't, here's what you do instead.'
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You view occasional unwanted kisses as no big deal. I'm curious if that view is widely shared. I imagine it's more widely shared among men than women.
Probably. But until either women initiate most of the kisses, or male intuition advances to the point where we can 'read' women's desires perfectly, I think we're stuck with occasional unwanted kisses, or at least deflected attempts at kisses.
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:44 AM
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Going in for the kiss is something you do slowly. She's not exactly going to need excellent reflexes to say no or pull away before one's lips make it to hers. If you're inches apart, looking into her eyes and slowly moving in until your lips touch hers and she then pulls away and complains about not giving verbal consent, she's a psycho. Hopefully one would be better at determining that a woman is at least somewhat normal before getting to that point.

Last edited by x-ray vision; 03-12-2018 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:46 AM
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This is the dilemma that many men face. If we do ask for explicit verbal consent, the mere act of asking could cause us to be rejected as a romantic partner. If we don't ask, we might get kicked in the balls.

Involuntary celibacy, or the risk of getting kicked in the balls. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
Oddly enough, there have been times when a man has asked to kiss me and I have actually said "yes".

On the other hand, there have been a LOT of men who I most certainly did not want to kiss who forced one on me.

If, when you say "can I kiss you?" you get consistently rejected consider the problem may be something about you, and that if you're not getting rejected when you acting without asking first you are not, actually, succeeding but rather forcing unwanted attention/touching on another human being. If you don't ask, kiss, then get "kicked in the balls" the answer is "no". Ask yourself if you'd rather get a verbal "no" or a "kick in the balls" - which is actually more painful?

Maybe I'm just grumpy today, but I get very, very, very tired of men simply assuming they can intrude on my life at any time with their libidinous needs. What the hell is so difficult about asking? Don't men complain that women won't tell them what they need instead of them having to guess? Why don't you return the favor? Or is it you're afraid the answer will be "no, I'm not interested, I'm trying to get my laundry done/grocery shopping/fix my car/do my job here"? Or, "no, I have no interest in either fucking you or having a romantic relationship with you"?
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Old 03-12-2018, 10:57 AM
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Don't men complain that women won't tell them what they need instead of them having to guess? Why don't you return the favor? Or is it you're afraid the answer will be "no, I'm not interested, I'm trying to get my laundry done/grocery shopping/fix my car/do my job here"?
Pffft, if I asked first, I'd never get to kiss any of the women at the grocery store!
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:02 AM
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No, I'm not turned off.

You know, if every man asked, then the women who think it's a turn off would have to change or be the ones losing out. Strikes me as win-win.
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:03 AM
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One St. Patrick's Day, many, many years ago, I was in a bar trying to make my way back to my friends. A young lady was going in the opposite direction and we wound up doing the dance where you try to pass but wind up blocking each other. I noticed she had one of those "Kiss Me I'm Irish" badges on. So I said, "Oh, can I kiss you, you're Irish?" She laughed and said "Sure!". We kissed. It was very nice. We sort of laughed at each other, and went our merry ways, never to see other again.
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:06 AM
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From a woman's standpoint, when I was dating, had a guy asked if it was ok to kiss me, I probably would've thought that was weird, though I'm sure it's possible to do it in some way that's not odd. Maybe just go slow and make an effort to read her reactions? Ask questions, "Like, this?" or "Do you need me to stop?"

I must admit I am also a little perplexed as to how to recommend someone go about asking for explicit consent without making things a little stilted and overly formal. Then again, the only time someone ever asked to kiss me, I'd already told him I didn't feel comfortable with him. When I said I didn't want him to kiss me, he asked me to marry him. So I'm a little biased.

Regardless, one of the things I think is somewhat not helpful is telling someone they need explicit consent without giving them the words to do so. It might seem totally obvious to really any normal person, but I could see a teenager getting so freaked out by the possibility of not having gotten appropriate agreement that they'd maybe just decide it was too embarrassing or carried to much risk of rejection.
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:11 AM
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If verbal consent is required before kissing, then it should be for actions wanted after that leading to “May I dry hump you?”
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:11 AM
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Women: are you turned off if a man asks to kiss you?

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Originally Posted by Jophiel View Post
If you didn't want to kiss him, you're "turned off" already, aren't you?

Possibly, the question as posed doesn’t take my interest level into account to begin with.

But if I wanted him to kiss me, asking wouldn’t ruin it. If I didn’t want him to kiss me, reaching over and doing it would not turn me on. If I wanted him to kiss me reaching over and doing it would be ok (assuming he wasn’t an overaggressive jerk).

Last edited by IvoryTowerDenizen; 03-12-2018 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:13 AM
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The first time I "kissed" someone French/European greeting style I did it wrong. This French woman in the Caribbean greeted us and leaned toward me for three "cheek kisses". She laughed and said something in French to my gf, who then explained to me that I shouldn't place wet smooches on her cheeks, just little pecks near her cheeks.

My gf and the French woman then demonstrated how it was done, then the French lady said, "again" and we did it again. I think I've got it down, but rarely get to practice.
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:18 AM
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My gf and the French woman then demonstrated how it was done, then the French lady said, "again" and we did it again. I think I've got it down, but rarely get to practice.
Wrong message board.
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:29 AM
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Guess I'm weird - I love it when a man says "can I kiss you?" You know, you're sitting real close, intimately talking, you know you both want to kiss, then he leans in and whispers "can I kiss you?" - Swoon!

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll me in my bunk!
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:34 AM
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Guess I'm weird - I love it when a man says "can I kiss you?" You know, you're sitting real close, intimately talking, you know you both want to kiss, then he leans in and whispers "can I kiss you?" - Swoon!

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll me in my bunk!
Suppose you want it to go further. Do you love it when a man asks "May I touch your breasts?"
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:49 AM
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Well yeah, but that's not the topic of discussion here. It's "do you ask first?" I'm saying 'no you don't, here's what you do instead.'
Yes, I'm aware of what you're saying. Whether or not it's obvious is relevant to the question though. If men were always right in whether or not their date wanted a kiss, this wouldn't be an issue. If men are completely oblivious and women are constantly subject to unwanted kisses, it's a bigger issue.
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:52 AM
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Suppose you want it to go further. Do you love it when a man asks "May I touch your breasts?"
Well I probably don't need every detail asked about. I imagine "can I insert my penis into your vagina?" wouldn't be all that much of a turn on
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:55 AM
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I don't think it's ever happened to me but it sounds like a complete turn off. As others have said, you both know when it's right and no one need ask anything (except in a playful way as mentioned by FloatyGimpy).
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Old 03-12-2018, 11:59 AM
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Suppose you want it to go further. Do you love it when a man asks "May I touch your breasts?"
When I was in college, I regularly fooled around with a very attractive guy (in my opinion, he was the second hottest guy in my freshman class). He used to specifically ask me before he did anything: "Can I kiss you?" "Can I take your shirt off?" "Can I go down on you?" I loved that he asked, because it went a long way towards making me feel more comfortable with him, being able to trust that he wouldn't take things further than I wanted. Being in college, I was used to men pushing the envelope until I told them no, and I felt much more relaxed knowing that I wouldn't have to watch out for roaming hands or dicks.

Any time I mentioned it to a friend, they thought it sounded weird. But to be honest, it does sound weird, and I only know I like it because I have actually been in that situation. It works better in practice than it sounds in theory. At least in my opinion.

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Old 03-12-2018, 12:18 PM
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Well I probably don't need every detail asked about. I imagine "can I insert my penis into your vagina?" wouldn't be all that much of a turn on
I don't think that would be much of a turn-on either. Many women find being asked to be kissed a turn-off too. It's also awkward for many men rather than just going slow and working off of implied consent. But if a man should ask for permission to kiss, then verbal permission for each step after that should be at least as important.
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:22 PM
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I don't think that would be much of a turn-on either. Many women find being asked to be kissed a turn-off too. It's also awkward for many men rather than just going slow and working off of implied consent. But if a man should ask for permission to kiss, then verbal permission for each step after that should be at least as important.
Ah, but the question in the OP is "are you turned off" not "should a man ask for permission" Those are two very different things.

I was only answering the OPs question.
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:29 PM
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Ah, but the question in the OP is "are you turned off" not "should a man ask for permission" Those are two very different things.
That was the question asked in the title of the OP. Why he asked is probably due to the first sentence in the body of the OP:

"One problem I have with certain segments of the #MeToo movement is the idea that you need explicit verbal consent to initiate physical contact."


Quote:
I was only answering the OPs question.
Nppe, you were also answering the one I asked in post 33.
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Old 03-12-2018, 12:40 PM
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It depends upon how he asks. In the context of an intimate conversation and a voice filled with desire? I find the whole active consent thing a definite turn-on. I've always hated those attitudes where "We can have sex, but we can't talk about it." and the whole societal pressure for her to pretend this was not on her mind and he just persuaded her? Blech!

IMHO if you are not adult enough to acknowledge your wishes and check in on those of your partner, its probably not going to be all that good anyway. Might as well call it a night.
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Old 03-12-2018, 01:07 PM
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Are we talking about a guy with whom we've been building things up (to where I am in fact turned on), or to someone like those guys I dated a few times who refused any kind of physical contact (jumped if I tried to touch them in any way) but then wanted to go straight to bed or straight to marriage? Or in the OP's specific question, a milder straight to kissing.

The first one I'd be likely to kiss him myself; the second one, where is a heavy vase when you need one.
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Old 03-12-2018, 01:14 PM
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My concern is that actually attempting to implement this ideal in the real world will lead to a lot of unnecessary rejections. .

I'd like to hear feedback from women on this issue.
I'd like some explanation of this sentence. Unnecessary rejection?

Ivory Tower Denizen has it right. If I wanted to be kissed, asking wouldn’t change how I felt. If I didn’t want to be kissed, asking wouldn’t change how I felt. If someone kissed me against my will, I’d most likely bite him. How’s that for rejection?
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Old 03-12-2018, 01:24 PM
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After a first date I asked a gorgeous woman if I could kiss her because I thought she might be "out of my league." She responded with "please." That was about 35 years ago... married 31 of those and 3 kids. She still thinks it was sweet.
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Old 03-12-2018, 01:36 PM
Blalron Blalron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeGee View Post
I'd like some explanation of this sentence. Unnecessary rejection?
When I used that phrase, I'm referring to causing a woman to lose interest in me that previously was interested.

Last edited by Blalron; 03-12-2018 at 01:36 PM.
  #46  
Old 03-12-2018, 01:58 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blalron View Post
When I used that phrase, I'm referring to causing a woman to lose interest in me that previously was interested.
Who told you this would be the inevitable/likely/possible cause or result?

Where do you get your information about women and relationships?
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  #47  
Old 03-12-2018, 02:06 PM
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SmartAleq SmartAleq is online now
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If you seriously think that taking a woman's comfort level into consideration and checking for boundaries would cause her to lose interest I have news for you--she was not at all into you. Any interest you thought was there was 100% in your head.
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Old 03-12-2018, 03:11 PM
msmith537 msmith537 is offline
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I always found it easier to have my dates sign a MSA (Master Sexual Agreement) at the beginning of a date. It clearly sets the terms with which I will initiate sexual contact (if I so choose) as well as her rights to "opt out".
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Old 03-12-2018, 03:46 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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Originally Posted by msmith537 View Post
I always found it easier to have my dates sign a MSA (Master Sexual Agreement) at the beginning of a date. It clearly sets the terms with which I will initiate sexual contact (if I so choose) as well as her rights to "opt out".
Does it contain the all important RDS (Regretful Drunken Sex) non-disclosure (we will never speak of this) clause?
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  #50  
Old 03-12-2018, 04:16 PM
Not a Platypus Not a Platypus is offline
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I'm not sure why asking if you can kiss someone inevitably means you also need to ask about literally every step of physical contact. It should be pretty clear by now that not everyone requires the same amount of verbal consent, and part of getting to know someone well enough to have sex could very easily involve asking if someone wants or needs frequent checking, or if they do prefer their partner to just go for it until they're told to stop.

This could also just be one of those things that feels so goddamn weird because most of us aren't used to it. We're used to assuming yes until we're told no, which has its own potential issues of people being afraid or otherwise unwilling to say no. Either system is fine assuming everyone involved wants the same thing.
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