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  #1  
Old 04-14-2018, 03:50 PM
Blindsided2 Blindsided2 is offline
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Explain to how my husband arranged for all these escorts

My husband of 16 years just came clean about a sex addiction that started with porn and sex with anonymous women before meeting me. It escalated to massage parlor happy endings and brothels (lots of different counties) and escorts (domestically) over the last 7 years. All the counseling has told me this is not about me. He says he had nothing to do with me, he just wanted to experience all the sex he didn't get to in hs and college. This was going on before we were trying to habe kids, during and after. I have a 5 year old and 8 month old. I never thought he was the type to ever check out other women let alone hire hookers.

He said there are sites that review escorts and to not look like a cop, he had to write reviews. Seriously? I saw there where some people on other threads that have experience or knowledge of how this all works -and didn't seem mean. Can some of you guys explain how this works. He is in several SA support groups and counseling to recover....and wants to start over. I am just shattered...I can't see how I can ever have sex with him again without feeling compared. I just want to know what its like in this "other world" that he has had a secret life.
  #2  
Old 04-14-2018, 03:53 PM
Chefguy Chefguy is offline
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Maybe you should talk to this guy.
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  #3  
Old 04-14-2018, 03:59 PM
Delicious Delicious is online now
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Is there somewhere in can buy escort futures or stocks? Interest seems to be skyrocketing lately.
  #4  
Old 04-14-2018, 04:03 PM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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Is there somewhere in can buy escort futures or stocks? Interest seems to be skyrocketing lately.
It is a volitile market--it could go bottoms-up at any moment.
  #5  
Old 04-14-2018, 04:20 PM
Blindsided2 Blindsided2 is offline
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Lol i did ask that guy a question...we'll see if he replies.

I asked a guy who specializes in polygraphing sex addicts if all men cheat because it sure feels that way. Never was cheated on before (that I know of anyway). He said we don't know how high the % of men who cheat is exactly but if we did no one would get married. To me the worse part is not even the cheating, its the deception. He tricked me into marring him, having kids, staying etc. So funny how people see nothing wrong with porn but once you get into this world of sex addiction you find so many (all?) start with porn and progress to the next bigger hit. Before they know it, they are getting bjs from transvestites and everyone looks at them as the dirty old men. (Mine wasn't with transvestites, just trying to lighten the mood.)

Last edited by Blindsided2; 04-14-2018 at 04:21 PM.
  #6  
Old 04-14-2018, 04:24 PM
TubaDiva TubaDiva is offline
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The counselors are telling you the truth; it has nothing to do with you. It never did.

It's nothing you did or did not do. Even if you spent every night swinging from the rafters like a trapeze artist, he would still have done what he did.

When he's out chasing strange, he's not thinking about you. He never was.

When he has been with you, he has not thought about all those other times with other partners. He probably does not think of those partners again five minutes after he scores with them.

It's not about quality; it's about quantity. It's about the thrill of the hunt and the new experience.

Some people are wired differently. I once worked with a man who was a self-professed "sex addict." He couldn't go to the corner for a cup of coffee without attracting someone looking to get busy. He would go out to lunch and wind up having sex with someone somewhere. These people have radar that picks one another up everywhere. Many of the everyday errands of his life were punctuated with sexual contacts with absolute strangers. I know people will read this and think I am shining them on, but I'm not; some people have this kind of thing as their hobby, their obsession, even.

That man was also an alcoholic; part of my job was tracking him down in the afternoons when he went to a bar and dragging him back to the office. That was probably not a coincidence.

There are sources for people looking for anonymous sex, for people looking for professional sex. Most of them are online. Just real recently not so many as before -- there's now new federal law that makes owners and operators of online prostitution sites AND THE PEOPLE WHO USE THEM more prone to serious jail time if they get caught. Google "backpage.com" for more information on this story, it's still unfolding.

Until recently sites like "craigslist" had a personals section that let people hook up with other people.

Again, it's all on him, it's all in his head. It's no reflection on you in any way.

Since you have children together this makes it a more complicated situation. Totally understand why you'd not want to have anything else to do with him, why you'd be angry, why you'd be hurt. He betrayed you and violated your marriage vows. He exposed you to physical risk from potential STDs and HIV. (I hope you have gotten checked out.) But as you two have those hostages to fortune together you're going to have to deal with him in some form for the rest of your life. And if you still love him ... that's so painful.

I hope you find a resolution to this that ultimately gives you peace. Continue talking to a counselor, your own therapist, or other sources of assistance.

Last edited by TubaDiva; 04-14-2018 at 04:26 PM.
  #7  
Old 04-14-2018, 04:25 PM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
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So, with escorts are you supposed to ignore all the one-star reviews like on Amazon?
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Old 04-14-2018, 05:04 PM
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Most of those sites have been getting shut down lately, maybe it was getting too hard for him to find his fix. Mention of reviews makes me assume he was talking about TER (the erotic review) which has been shut down.
  #9  
Old 04-14-2018, 05:09 PM
RaftPeople RaftPeople is offline
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...you find so many (all?) start with porn...
Given that something like 99.99999999999% of guys look at porn, you could almost say "it starts with breathing oxygen and..."
  #10  
Old 04-14-2018, 05:41 PM
Alessan Alessan is offline
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So, what, is it Hooker Month here on the SDMB?
  #11  
Old 04-14-2018, 06:28 PM
TubaDiva TubaDiva is offline
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For most people, looking at porn, or having a drink, or spending a night in a casino, or having a piece of chocolate cake, or smoking a joint, interacting with others, it's no big deal.

You can point to most any action people do and for the great majority of folks it's just a part of life, no big deal.

For others, they can't have one drink without getting knee walking, commode-hugging drunk. Every time.

Some people put bets on any and everything; I've heard of people who bet on which raindrop will fall down the window first.

There are people who binge eat until their throw up. And then they eat some more.

There's TV shows on people who fill their houses with anything from hobbies to old newspapers in piles ten feet tall. This includes people who hoard hundreds of cats or dogs or fish or birds or geckos or whatever.

In these times most everyone knows someone with a drug habit, whether it be to Coca-Cola or cocaine, to pain killers of every stripe.

I'm being tedious here but the point is this: For every action under the sun, there's someone obsessed with it, addicted to it or the feeling it induces, craving the whatever it is they feel.

In your case, again, your husband didn't go into all this thinking he was addicted to acquiring sex. He was no doubt genuine when he fell in love with you and got married and had kids. He did this most likely because this is what people are expected to do in the course of their lives, these are milestones just like graduating from school and getting a job. Society encourages, even expects us to couple up; a gazillion years of genetics pushes you to procreate.

People who act out through sex do so regardless of who or whatever they might have at home. It's chasing adventures as a sexual outlaw or scratching an itch. For some it is an overwhelming compulsion, though I bet for most of those who play around it's a crime of opportunity. (Women do it too.) There's not a lot of people that get up out of bed in the morning and think, "I'm going to fuck a stranger today." But then some combination of something or another happens and there they are.

Not excusing it. Just saying.

Right now you are probably seeing everything through the prism of anger and disappointment. That will color your view and not in a way that is useful to you or your family. I'm not saying that you should just accept what has happened as all right -- because it most assuredly is not -- but you should try to sort out this situation without harsh judgment of him or of yourself. To get to that point may take some time and most likely some counseling for each of you.
  #12  
Old 04-14-2018, 06:33 PM
Sunny Daze Sunny Daze is online now
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So, what, is it Hooker Month here on the SDMB?
The schedule is around here somewhere. I think next month is "plushies".
  #13  
Old 04-14-2018, 07:14 PM
Loach Loach is offline
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Originally Posted by Blindsided2 View Post
Lol i did ask that guy a question...we'll see if he replies.

I asked a guy who specializes in polygraphing sex addicts if all men cheat because it sure feels that way. Never was cheated on before (that I know of anyway). He said we don't know how high the % of men who cheat is exactly but if we did no one would get married.
Sure, and all those cheating men are only cheating with hookers and deceived single women. The percentage of women that cheat is a lot higher than you seem to think. Humans like attention. Sex with someone new is exciting. Thatís true regardless of what sex organs you have.
  #14  
Old 04-14-2018, 08:20 PM
Guinastasia Guinastasia is online now
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The schedule is around here somewhere. I think next month is "plushies".
Well, it's a nice change from Rape Month, that's for sure.
  #15  
Old 04-14-2018, 08:38 PM
Darren Garrison Darren Garrison is offline
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Well, it's a nice change from Rape Month, that's for sure.
I thought that they changed the name to Canola Month?
  #16  
Old 04-14-2018, 08:51 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
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Sure, and all those cheating men are only cheating with hookers and deceived single women. The percentage of women that cheat is a lot higher than you seem to think. Humans like attention. Sex with someone new is exciting. Thatís true regardless of what sex organs you have.
Where women have more freedom, infidelity rates for women approaches the male rate. It's not a gender thing, it's a human thing.
  #17  
Old 04-14-2018, 08:58 PM
DooWahDiddy DooWahDiddy is offline
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Maybe you should talk to this guy.
Wouldn't it be awesome if that was her husband? It's like a real-life, horrifying version of The Pina Colada Song.
  #18  
Old 04-14-2018, 08:59 PM
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So, what, is it Hooker Month here on the SDMB?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny Daze View Post
The schedule is around here somewhere. I think next month is "plushies".
Look, it's not just us; it's Hooker Month In America.

So, if we resolve all the "politicians with hookers" stuff, can next month be "plushies" for the whole country?

Last edited by digs; 04-14-2018 at 09:00 PM.
  #19  
Old 04-14-2018, 09:19 PM
mixdenny mixdenny is offline
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He said there are sites that review escorts and to not look like a cop, he had to write reviews. Seriously? .
To put a more direct answer to your questions, yes there are sites like this. Some are basically forums not unlike The Straight Dope with sub topics except all they discuss is scoring with women. I assume there are ones for gay and other tastes also. The classic site was the USA Sex Guide and its companion, the World Sex Guide. All are shut down at the moment.

In the USA SG there were forums for each state, and major cities under those headings. In each city's forum there were the base forums for Streetwalkers, Massage Parlors, Craigslist experiences, BackPage experiences, Strip Clubs and probably more that I can't remember.

Guys posted about their experiences in some detail, what they did, how much it cost, how nice was her room, everything. If it was from a listing they would include a link to her advertising page. For a street hookup they would at least tell where they met, what she looked like, maybe a cell phone photo or two, some of them during the sex act. One common thing I noted was guys called themselves mongers. If a particularly nice hooker had a phone number they would share the number among themselves, but only if you were a 'senior monger', hence the need to post your own experiences so others trust you.

On BackPage and the Erotic Review, it is the providers (hookers) who do the postings. Each lady has her own page of advertising with photos, prices, services offered, etc. Many code words were used, i.e. oral is 50 'flowers', regular sex is 100 'flowers', all in an attempt to provide less evidence if they got busted. I have no idea if these silly tactics work.

TER in particular has a full page on each woman with check boxes for dozens of categories. Some are services, oral, regular, anal, etc. Others are personal attributes like hair color, weight, height, age, nationality, size of boobs, natural or augmented, shaved, trimmed or natural pubic hair. Everything is searchable so you can quickly see how many fit your desires. Just fill out the search form and check off the right boxes.

Then they add reviews that go into great detail, but I think you need to be a paying monger to get to those.

And then there are more specialized web sites. One might feature mature women, transsexuals, dominant women, Asian, European or South American women, on and on.

So it's pretty easy.

Dennis

Last edited by mixdenny; 04-14-2018 at 09:22 PM.
  #20  
Old 04-14-2018, 09:25 PM
don't ask don't ask is offline
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Sure, and all those cheating men are only cheating with hookers and deceived single women. The percentage of women that cheat is a lot higher than you seem to think. Humans like attention. Sex with someone new is exciting. Thatís true regardless of what sex organs you have.
It's just more likely when it's a Wurlitzer.
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:50 PM
Albert Rose Albert Rose is offline
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Thank you, TubaDiva, for respecting the seriousness of what Blindsided2 is going through.

Blindsided2, you would benefit a great deal from therapy with an addictions counselor - to help you deal with the upheavals you're experiencing. See if you can google some in your area. Substance abuse counselors will know where to look. Also, S-Anon is a powerful resource for partners of sex addicts to use.

Yes, he is the addict here; as such, he is the source of much of the suffering. Please don't fall into the trap of thinking "Since he's the addict, he has to do all the work." That won't help you. What you need right now is to take care of yourself. Attending the S-Anon meetings and going through your own therapy will bring you healing. And don't make any decisions on Saving the Marriage right now, and don't allow any pressure from him to make such decisions. You both have a lot of work to do right now (no, it isn't fair that you have to do it) - please create space and focus on that work.

I have to echo again, his addiction has nothing to do with you. His tendency to deception has nothing to do with you. Please don't kick yourself over these things; he is damaged and has been damaged since long before he met you. And now his damage is harming you. You have the right to resent him for it, but you owe it to yourself to get some help for you.
  #22  
Old 04-14-2018, 11:14 PM
susan susan is offline
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You and your kids may need an HIV test.
  #23  
Old 04-15-2018, 12:44 AM
Blindsided2 Blindsided2 is offline
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Thank you everyone for your replies. TubaDiva and Albert Rose, you both give very good advice and I especially appreciate your kind and thorough replies. I am aware of these things, I see a CSAT and am in multiple support groups for wives of addicts. I can give many book recommendations for any other partners, women or Men, if anyone wants them.

I am just trying to find out from men who use them or know about them- what its really like to know who this man is that I am married to. I can't get my head wrapped around it. I talking with him and its like my sweet husband. It's like i am in denial because I can't see all the women's been with.

I also just can't believe that he will ever find me attractive (42 and two kids) when he's been seeking out 20 years for the last 10 years. I looked up one sit and and all these gorgeous women are there...but there are like $400 an hour. Hes been going to $120 escorts. (2 San Franciso and 1 in Orlando)... The rest were from Brothels in Amsterdam, China, Brazil, Germany . Plus like 30 MP. I am not blaming myself for his poor choices but I Just can't see how I can stay an not always feel like he's secretly wishing he was with other women. I don't want my daughters to be raised in a broken home though either.
  #24  
Old 04-15-2018, 12:48 AM
Blindsided2 Blindsided2 is offline
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I, at the advice of all the books and counselors, won't make any permanent decisions for a year but I just don't see how any marriages survive and truly trust again.

Yes, we both have been tested and thankfully are clean. And yes, I am fully aware and angry that he put me and both babies at risk for years.
  #25  
Old 04-15-2018, 01:53 AM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is offline
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I, at the advice of all the books and counselors, won't make any permanent decisions for a year but I just don't see how any marriages survive and truly trust again.
That's exactly why they've advised that. They know that it's going to take up to a year for you to be capable of even thinking straight again. That's not a reflection on anything you've done or not done, just according to experience that's how long it takes.
  #26  
Old 04-15-2018, 04:34 AM
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Thank you everyone for your replies. TubaDiva and Albert Rose, you both give very good advice and I especially appreciate your kind and thorough replies. I am aware of these things, I see a CSAT and am in multiple support groups for wives of addicts. I can give many book recommendations for any other partners, women or Men, if anyone wants them.

I am just trying to find out from men who use them or know about them- what its really like to know who this man is that I am married to. I can't get my head wrapped around it. I talking with him and its like my sweet husband. It's like i am in denial because I can't see all the women's been with.

I also just can't believe that he will ever find me attractive (42 and two kids) when he's been seeking out 20 years for the last 10 years. I looked up one sit and and all these gorgeous women are there...but there are like $400 an hour. Hes been going to $120 escorts. (2 San Franciso and 1 in Orlando)... The rest were from Brothels in Amsterdam, China, Brazil, Germany . Plus like 30 MP. I am not blaming myself for his poor choices but I Just can't see how I can stay an not always feel like he's secretly wishing he was with other women. I don't want my daughters to be raised in a broken home though either.

I'm no expert, but I am again surprised at how quickly people are considered an addict (just like in the other thread). Those numbers over more than 16 years...

It does sound like most of the escort visits happen when he has an opportunity to do so. It sounds likes he travels (for work?) a lot and might get into situations (and places) that gives him an opportunity. This is probably irrelevant in your case, but sometimes there can be some peer pressure from colleagues/clients as well. If brothels or clubs are legal, you often see people that are travelling for business (in groups) attending. My experience is mostly in Germany and when there are big trade fairs in town (Frankfurt, Cologne, Dusseldorf for instance), clubs are packed and many girls will even plan their vacations around these fairs or come over from elsewhere. During the big car fair in Frankfurt, it feels you run into about half the people working the stands later at night. And when groups of male colleagues come there together... well people get talked into doing shit. But again, probably not relevant in your case. If my assumption about travelling for work is right, I do wonder how you'll ever trust him again when he is "on the road".

To add to what mixdenny said, I believe it is also common that girls ask for (good) reviews to be written, since it's good for business. You might need the positive references if you want to meet up with someone you don't know yet. Most people however, enjoy writing up what happened and having a place ("community" even) to talk about all this stuff. There are many, many forums about prostitution also when nothing is to gain (and where girls typically don't like to be written about).

While the ethics of cheating is not often discussed among "mongers", many of them are married (could be the majority). I have heard many different reasons over time. Some as simple as "wanting a 20 year old body" again, or to make up for missed experience in their younger years. Some because they feel the need for "new sex"; even 20 year olds get cheated on and many clients get bored with girls after a few sessions (so they move on to someone new). Some to feel "wanted" by young girls. Some because the sex at home is almost non existent. Really I have even known men who were dropped off and picked up by their wife. In most of these cases there was a clear drop in the woman's sex drive (often due to medical issues). In any case, the sex often has very little (if any) meaning. It is a physical thing and hopefully a bit of fun, but emotionally it means nothing. I am not saying that to make it sound "less bad", but just to make clear that most of these cheating mongers love their wives dearly... and when someone occasionally finds out and leaves, they are heart broken (and know it's been their own fault). To take a bit of leap, most likely is that he really doesn't want to "be" with all these other women; he might sometimes want sex with someone and to him that means something entirely different. Again, not saying at all that this means it's "ok" or anything like that.
  #27  
Old 04-15-2018, 08:16 AM
Blindsided2 Blindsided2 is offline
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Polar Bear, he was sexual with over 50 women since 2009 and was traveling for work- was in Colgne, Germany. He told himself he deserved it and all executives cheated on their wives. (He now says this was faulty thinking to justify it.) He actually never went to these places with others. He broke off and did it. Apparently, addicts think/plan about this stuff for weeks to escape reality (he says stress from work nothing that he was unhappy about with me)... and then act out. This to me seems like a a choice not addiction. Well lack of sex at home wasn't from my lack of trying. I enjoy(ed?) sex and would wear lingerie and was a size 2...Turns out he wanted sex with anyone but me. Sooo double my anger because I was the fool missing out on sex. He says he loves me and saw sex as dirty so didn't want it with me. I went without sex because he said he had low T! ��

I love that the government stepped in and finally did something about sites that are doing bad stuff but seriously bad timing for me. I want to get a visual for the "quality" of prostitutes he's been paying for. I found other sites where the girls are gorgeous but he didn't pay $400+ an hour. I don't know why but I just want to know what he is really like when he isn't with me. Is he at least respectful to these girls or demanding, arrogant and degrading in his reviews? I am not saying infidelity is okay either but you can tell a lot about a person's character by what they are like when they think they are getting away with something.

It seems people have experience with this or other who do, do men ever really leave this stuff? Am I just going to find out 10 years from now he relapsed and was doing it again? Anyone have any success stories of relationships making it through. Or when i can think straight again a year from now, I am going to just see how disrespected I have been and leave?
  #28  
Old 04-15-2018, 08:47 AM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
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I'm a random dude on a random message board, so take what I say with every bit of due caution.

To my mind, once trust is destroyed at this level, there is no road back. Yeah, people can change. Yeah, people can forgive. Yeah, there are stories of redemption and recovery. But they are the rare exception, not the norm. The norm is that it all ends in anger, resentment and divorce.

No one can tell you which outcome is the right one for you. But the statistics are not with the hopeless optimists.

The good news is, if you want it, you get a chance to start again with someone new and with a whole lot of experience and knowledge about yourself and the things you want and, most importantly, the shit you'll never put up with ever again. Because you don't have to.

So take a year (or however long you need - but not too long!) to think about it. Until then, leave your options open.
  #29  
Old 04-15-2018, 09:13 AM
Loach Loach is offline
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You and your kids may need an HIV test.
Has he been sharing needles with the kids? I thought the panic about catching HIV from casual contact was taken care of by a few ďvery special episodesĒ back in the 80s.

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Originally Posted by Blindsided2 View Post
Polar Bear, he was sexual with over 50 women since 2009 and was traveling for work- was in Colgne, Germany. He told himself he deserved it and all executives cheated on their wives. (He now says this was faulty thinking to justify it.) He actually never went to these places with others. He broke off and did it. Apparently, addicts think/plan about this stuff for weeks to escape reality (he says stress from work nothing that he was unhappy about with me)... and then act out.
I donít know about high priced girlfriend experience escorts but the brothels in Europe donít need a lot of planning. We are talking about taking 15 minutes out of your day.
  #30  
Old 04-15-2018, 10:39 AM
jz78817 jz78817 is online now
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Has he been sharing needles with the kids? I thought the panic about catching HIV from casual contact was taken care of by a few ďvery special episodesĒ back in the 80s.
there's the chance he could have contracted it before they were conceived, but given how long OP says this has been going on that's probably not likely.
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Old 04-15-2018, 12:15 PM
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Has he been sharing needles with the kids? I thought the panic about catching HIV from casual contact was taken care of by a few “very special episodes” back in the 80s.
Yes, and since it's already known that he lies, she actually may not know how long he's been having sex with people who have a lot of sex with other people. Thanks for demonstrating why we need ongoing HIV education, though.

Last edited by susan; 04-15-2018 at 12:15 PM.
  #32  
Old 04-15-2018, 01:50 PM
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OP: What inspired him to come clean? Was it by his own volition or did he get caught? I actually think you can work through this, but he will need a lot of counseling to get to the root of why he does/did this. As others have said,, it has nothing to do with you.
  #33  
Old 04-15-2018, 02:11 PM
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Yes, and since it's already known that he lies, she actually may not know how long he's been having sex with people who have a lot of sex with other people. Thanks for demonstrating why we need ongoing HIV education, though.

If we're being honest though, the odds of contracting HIV through PIV sex is pretty darn low, like one in 2500 exposures. I point this out not to excuse what the OP's husband did, but hopefully to set her mind at ease with regards to infection. Link

Quote:
Probabilities of HIV transmission per exposure to the virus are usually expressed in percentages or as odds (see chart at the end of this article). For example, the average risk of contracting HIV through sharing a needle one time with an HIV-positive drug user is 0.67 percent, which can also be stated as 1 in 149 or, using the ratios the CDC prefers, 67 out of 10,000 exposures. The risk from giving a blowjob to an HIV-positive man not on treatment is at most 1 in 2,500 (or 0.04 percent per act). The risk of contracting HIV during vaginal penetration, for a woman in the United States, is 1 per 1,250 exposures (or 0.08 percent); for the man in that scenario, itís 1 per 2,500 exposures (0.04 percent, which is the same as performing fellatio).
  #34  
Old 04-15-2018, 02:16 PM
polar bear polar bear is online now
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Originally Posted by Enola Gay View Post
OP: What inspired him to come clean? Was it by his own volition or did he get caught? I actually think you can work through this, but he will need a lot of counseling to get to the root of why he does/did this. As others have said,, it has nothing to do with you.
This is a good question. Typically I see people quit when they are done or bored with the whole thing; or in some occasions, when they meet someone to have a normal relationship with. But even then many seem to find it difficult to withstand temptation. Deleting profiles on forums and staying away from websites about this is stuff, is always a good indication that someone is serious about quitting. In the end it often boils down to the question of whether he really wants to stop, or whether he's mostly motivated by not losing what he has in his normal life. But to answer your question directly: yes, people definitely walk away from this stuff and don't look back.

When he says he doesn't want to have sex with you because it's dirty... that seems to be an issue in itself, that may require some attention.

The "dirty" issue above not withstanding, many men that visit prostitutes are sweet. In itself there is no reason to think he would be any different with those women, than with other people he meets. If he's respectful in everyday life, he'll most likely be just as respectful to these girls. If he's an arrogant douche in normal life, then he's probably the same with these girls. If you ever read his reviews, don't forget that people sometimes play a role on these message boards as well. Portrayals don't always mimic reality. I have known guys that sound like real assholes in their stories, but are as meek as a lamb when you meet them in real life (especially to the girls).

I'm not sure what seeing pictures (possibly photoshopped) will do for you, but for the international ones you should still be able to find them. What reviews are concerned, there's a chance he still has them on a computer somewhere... but you'd have to ask to see them of course.
  #35  
Old 04-15-2018, 02:18 PM
Loach Loach is offline
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Yes, and since it's already known that he lies, she actually may not know how long he's been having sex with people who have a lot of sex with other people. Thanks for demonstrating why we need ongoing HIV education, though.

Right and even if in the unlikely event that he caught HIV from someone the chances of passing it on to his children through normal casual contact is pretty much nil. Unless youíre suggesting that he engaged in high-risk behavior with his children. Is there even one case of the child of an HIV patient catching the disease just by living with them? Of course his wife would have more to be worried about but other STDs would be more of a concern. A simple solution would be to have him get tested and share the written report. That would put to rest even irrational fears of the children catching HIV.

You do make a good argument for the need for more education.
  #36  
Old 04-15-2018, 02:19 PM
Lasciel Lasciel is online now
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The OP may be interested in a forum/advice website called chumplady.com where I think she'll find lots of company and some specific advice and experiences from people who have actually been cheated on.

The general advice there is 'this is how he is (it doesn't really matter WHY or HOW) your only choice now is to decide if you are willing to live with this reality. And if you decide you aren't willing to live your whole married life knowing he's constantly and continually sleeping with strangers, then fuck waiting and counseling and reconciliation efforts and get yourself a divorce lawyer pronto so you can try to protect assets and support for yourself and your kids post divorce.'

They are a very strident group, but honestly I feel like they have a pretty solid basic point.

If you can't trust him, then do you want to spend the whole rest of your life as his parole officer, checking his phone and emails and constantly wondering what signs you've missed?

Do you want to make scheduling an STD check every 6 months just another one of your regular office appointments?

Do you want to explain to your kids that you decided it's ok for him to cheat on you because ...? but that it still upsets you and for them to learn that's how to be in a relationship?

I mean, there are definitely reasons to stay married. But it seems like there are also good reasons to consider maybe NOT staying with mister Chief Escort Officer.
  #37  
Old 04-15-2018, 02:37 PM
hajario hajario is offline
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Originally Posted by Loach View Post
Right and even if in the unlikely event that he caught HIV from someone the chances of passing it on to his children through normal casual contact is pretty much nil. Unless youíre suggesting that he engaged in high-risk behavior with his children. Is there even one case of the child of an HIV patient catching the disease just by living with them? Of course his wife would have more to be worried about but other STDs would be more of a concern. A simple solution would be to have him get tested and share the written report. That would put to rest even irrational fears of the children catching HIV.

You do make a good argument for the need for more education.
I think she was saying that if he gave her HIV prior to the pregnancy, the kids could have it. This is possible if he lied about the timeline.
  #38  
Old 04-15-2018, 02:46 PM
polar bear polar bear is online now
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Originally Posted by Grrr! View Post
If we're being honest though, the odds of contracting HIV through PIV sex is pretty darn low, like one in 2500 exposures. I point this out not to excuse what the OP's husband did, but hopefully to set her mind at ease with regards to infection. Link
Yes, and this for unprotected sex with someone who is infected.

A large, large, large majority of sex workers is not infected with an STD (let alone HIV) and a large, large, large majority of sexual services are provided with condoms.

Have him take an STD test just to be sure, but don't go overboard and make a family outing out of it.
  #39  
Old 04-15-2018, 02:47 PM
Loach Loach is offline
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Originally Posted by hajario View Post
I think she was saying that if he gave her HIV prior to the pregnancy, the kids could have it. This is possible if he lied about the timeline.
I suppose it’s possible but HIV testing at pregnancy is CDC recommended and pretty standard everywhere. Unless for some strange reason she opted out at the time.

Last edited by Loach; 04-15-2018 at 02:47 PM.
  #40  
Old 04-15-2018, 03:09 PM
Corry El Corry El is offline
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Originally Posted by RaftPeople View Post
Given that something like 99.99999999999% of guys look at porn, you could almost say "it starts with breathing oxygen and..."
Related to the saying that 9x% of men tell surveys they masturbate and the other 100-9x% are lying.

However I wouldn't dismiss the idea that internet porn and virtual sex have changed social patterns. Nothing like 90% of men regularly looked at hardcore porn a few decades ago, as opposed to pictures of naked women in magazines. A high % might have seen real porn at some point, but a lot fewer people looked at it regularly than now. Who knows the total effect of that? IMO. It's one thing to say "consenting adults can do as they please that doesn't 'hurt' others" and another to say wider spread vices (porn, drugs etc) can't possibly f*ck up society, because, well consenting adults... Who knows whether it damages long term relationships more than it used to.

Anyway I at least partly agree in pushing back on 'it starts with' because it's not necessarily a smoothly slippery slope between what you can easily make pop up on your computer screen strictly one way (you receive) v. genuinely interactive virtual sex to real life cheating. And it's fairly obvious the % of guys going past one way porn is a lot lower, for some reason or reasons. Which besides any difference in devotion to their SO's, includes IMO a lot of guys being simply more afraid of taking those further steps, or it just doesn't appeal them as much.

Last edited by Corry El; 04-15-2018 at 03:11 PM.
  #41  
Old 04-15-2018, 04:38 PM
Chimera Chimera is offline
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  #42  
Old 04-15-2018, 04:42 PM
Enola Gay Enola Gay is offline
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Originally Posted by polar bear View Post

When he says he doesn't want to have sex with you because it's dirty... that seems to be an issue in itself, that may require some attention.

The "dirty" issue above not withstanding, many men that visit prostitutes are sweet. In itself there is no reason to think he would be any different with those women, than with other people he meets.
He may suffer from the Madonna-whore complex, where he can't have sex with someone he respects (his wife), so he avoids sex with her & seeks it out with "dirty" women. The good news is that it's treatable.
  #43  
Old 04-15-2018, 04:51 PM
susan susan is offline
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Quote:
I think she was saying that if he gave her HIV prior to the pregnancy, the kids could have it. This is possible if he lied about the timeline.
The timeline is
Quote:
This was going on before we were trying to habe kids, during and after. I have a 5 year old and 8 month old.
Yes, the risk may be low, since it requires transmission to the mother and then vertically to the neonate. But the risk isn't 0, and we don't know anything else about this situation that might increase the risk. In post #24, the OP says
Quote:
Yes, we both have been tested and thankfully are clean.
She further says that she is aware and angry that he put her and them at risk.

I'm not sure there's any reason to dispute suggesting to someone whose spouse was sexually active with other people that they should be tested for HIV.
  #44  
Old 04-15-2018, 04:53 PM
Blindsided2 Blindsided2 is offline
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It is true that i dont know for sure but I have been tested and so had he. I would think one of us would test positive before the kids would right?

My 3 yr old found porn (well went to turn cartoons on and porn was playing in the background so she didnt see anything but I heard it. I demanded he start a 12 step program and weekly counseling in January 2017 or I was prepared for divorce him. So he did, I went to an intensive for partners in Nashville that was EXCELLENT (Bethesda Workshops) and then he went to the addict intensive. That is where he finally told his small group and counselors that it was really all this. he was too scared I was going to leave him so he dragged his feet until I told him in January that if we didn't have full disclosure (where his discloses all the lies with our counselors present) by the end of Feb I wanted him to move out. While he was preparing for disclosure, he opened a document that was titled "strips clubs, brothels and swingers club in Amsterdam"...which triggered an alert email from the accountability software on his phone. he called me panicked saying he wasn't a swingger..at first I was totally calm and told him "its okay, we'll get through this"...it took me a couple of days to realize it meant he had been to a brothel- Even then I thought it would be like a one time/learned my lesson thing. Ironically, i had found a hidden camera key chain on his office desk one day but couldn't figure out how to get data off it before it disappeared. I told his counselor I knew he was into something besides porn so he better come clean of everything at the disclosure or we were done. Turns out he used it to record him in a couple MP but it was too graining so he stopped using it. I find it odd that he doesn't know where that camera is now or what happened to it. So to answer question more directly, he was caught with porn (which i was very clear was a deal breaker for me when we were dating- to each their own, but I didn't want porn in my relationship. I told him if he did, he should find another girl. He agreed but lied and hid it. I found it twice and he promised to stop- even went to pastor (bad idea looking back)...I say this in case anyone thinks I was being "unreasonable" by asking a guy not to use porn. This is what i was trying to avoid.

So while i caught him with porn..I had no idea he was so deep into this other stuff for almost 10 years. He didn't HAVE to tell me that suff- but he didn't know what I did know. His counsolor told him I knew something and was going to see if he came clean.
  #45  
Old 04-15-2018, 05:05 PM
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is online now
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Do you think you know everything now?
  #46  
Old 04-15-2018, 05:06 PM
Ambivalid Ambivalid is offline
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As far as the "dirty" element that compelled him with the professional sex, I may be able to clarify that a bit. With prostitutes, guys can get to a place where, depending on the limits and boundaries of the particular girl of course, they engage in acts that they would never engage in with a woman they had respect for. This holds an appeal in and of itself. It's dark, it's taboo. But it's also perfectly understandable why they wouldn't want to share this with someone they love.

Let's try to construct a hypothetical. Say, for instance (keeping in mind that logical consistency isn't a strong suit of the sex addict) that a "monger" gets visceral pleasure from a deviant, extremely objectifying and disrespectful act such as making a prostitute eat their cum out of their hand after oral sex. This sort of darkly kinky stuff can come about with men for myriad reasons, such as anger towards women in general, to any number of things but it's still not something they'd ever get pleasure out of doing with someone they actually love, respect and value. If they engage in this sort of sexual deviancy long enough and then try to go back to an exclusively positive, healthy respectful sex life, they may find themselves struggling to find adequate pleasure in it. This is what takes work. Sustained, committed, engaged work.
  #47  
Old 04-15-2018, 05:06 PM
Nawth Chucka Nawth Chucka is offline
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Originally Posted by Blindsided2 View Post
Lol i did ask that guy a question...we'll see if he replies.

I asked a guy who specializes in polygraphing sex addicts if all men cheat because it sure feels that way. Never was cheated on before (that I know of anyway). He said we don't know how high the % of men who cheat is exactly but if we did no one would get married. To me the worse part is not even the cheating, its the deception. He tricked me into marring him, having kids, staying etc. So funny how people see nothing wrong with porn but once you get into this world of sex addiction you find so many (all?) start with porn and progress to the next bigger hit. Before they know it, they are getting bjs from transvestites and everyone looks at them as the dirty old men. (Mine wasn't with transvestites, just trying to lighten the mood.)
B/c we can ALL laugh at transvestites, right? Hoo-boy, they are some funny shit.
All men look at porn and all men will lie about it when their hysterical girlfriend asks, 'You don't look at porn, do you? B/c I don't want you if you look at porn.'

Good luck w/ your future relationships, try not to care about what they do when you aren't there that doesn't affect you whatsoever or else what you're living through now is how it'll wind up. Again.
  #48  
Old 04-15-2018, 05:11 PM
Ambivalid Ambivalid is offline
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Originally Posted by Nawth Chucka View Post
All men look at porn and all men will lie about it when their hysterical girlfriend asks, 'You don't look at porn, do you? B/c I don't want you if you look at porn.'
This is comically untrue. True, there may be some women out there who are that delusional that they believe their man (any man) doesn't look at porn. But they are by far the exception, not the rule. And it's definitely a joke that if any man were unlucky enough to encounter one of these women that they would lie if confronted about their porn viewing habits.
  #49  
Old 04-15-2018, 05:26 PM
Blindsided2 Blindsided2 is offline
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Folks this is Why i didn't want to date a guy with a porn problem. It builds and just like drinking/drugging a lot...you don't get the same dopamine hit so you have to do it more/go more into extreme porn/go to a more live fix then before you know it...you are visiting hookers. Sorry...my husband 30 year habit with porn lead him here. I won't say all porn users end up addicts just like not all people who take drugs end up addicts...but they scientifically know porn lights up the brain on scans just like heroin and it is more addictive the younger people start using it . Trust me, I don't want to date any guys into porn. Even if I end up living alone with a pack of dogs. 🙄
  #50  
Old 04-15-2018, 05:32 PM
Blindsided2 Blindsided2 is offline
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Folks this is Why i didn't want to date a guy with a porn problem. It builds and just like drinking/drugging a lot...you don't get the same dopamine hit so you have to do it more/go more into extreme porn/go to a more live fix then before you know it...you are visiting hookers. Sorry...my husband 30 year habit with porn lead him here. I won't say all porn users end up addicts just like not all people who take drugs end up addicts...but they scientifically know porn lights up the brain on scans just like heroin and it is more addictive the younger people start using it . Trust me, I don't want to date any guys into porn. Even if I end up living alone with a pack of dogs. 🙄

Beckdawrek, I think I do but I don't know if I know everything now. He let me believe for a year it was just porn. Then he didnt disclose everything in the full disclosure so we had to do another one a couple days later. And then he forgot to mention another inner circle violation after i moved back i. 40 days later. . I am going to ask for a polygraph and go from there. This is pretty common. with addicts.
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