Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-14-2018, 10:17 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 27,441
Straight women: Do you believe that straight men are easy to seduce?

Recently I have begun baking again, something I had not assayed since my eyes went to shit. Tonight I made peach cobbler with the occasional assistance of my stepdaughter. Once we put the dish in the oven we had a jovial conversation in which we debated just how easy it is for an attractive woman to seduce a man she desires . One of us felt it was trivial; the other did not agree, Arguing that the difficulty depends on how confident the man in question is in his dealings with women .

Thoughts?
__________________
"Don't get emotional, T'Challa."

"I'm not emotional. I'm happy. All my enemies are in the same place."
  #2  
Old 04-14-2018, 10:22 PM
Hector_St_Clare Hector_St_Clare is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,643
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
Recently I have begun baking again, something I had not assayed since my eyes went to shit. Tonight I made peach cobbler with the occasional assistance of my stepdaughter. Once we put the dish in the oven we had a jovial conversation in which we debated just how easy it is for an attractive woman to seduce a man she desires . One of us felt it was trivial; the other did not agree, Arguing that the difficulty depends on how confident the man in question is in his dealings with women .

Thoughts?
Not relevant to the thread, but I'm glad to see you're eyes are in decent enough condition to be posting here again. Best wishes!
  #3  
Old 04-14-2018, 10:24 PM
Sunny Daze Sunny Daze is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 9,416
Men seem to think it's easy, or at least I'm given to believe from comments they make. In my experience, it's not that easy. The males that are receptive aren't necessarily the ones you want to catch.
  #4  
Old 04-14-2018, 10:27 PM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 28,854
I think it entirely depends on the man. Me, single, age 25? It would have been incredibly easy. Me, now, married, and closing in on 40? I'm confident I could resist anyone except for Janelle Monae.
  #5  
Old 04-14-2018, 10:32 PM
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: So.Ark ?
Posts: 6,128
As a young student I seemed to attract older men. It was fine when I was waitressing one semester. I got big tips. But it was a chore to deal with in my everyday life. The grocery store was a obstacle course sometimes. It stopped when I married and got pregnant. Seducing wasn't something I sat out to do, so I always assumed it would be easy if I needed to do it.
  #6  
Old 04-14-2018, 11:38 PM
Robot Arm Robot Arm is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Medford, MA
Posts: 22,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
Recently I have begun baking again, something I had not assayed since my eyes went to shit. Tonight I made peach cobbler with the occasional assistance of my stepdaughter. Once we put the dish in the oven we had a jovial conversation in which we debated just how easy it is for an attractive woman to seduce a man she desires . One of us felt it was trivial; the other did not agree, Arguing that the difficulty depends on how confident the man in question is in his dealings with women .

Thoughts?
I've wondered about this a bit, myself. Do you think it's a matter of knowledge or skill? I think different men have different things that appeal to them. Even if some woman wanted to, I don't know if she'd be able to figure out my particular weaknesses, or to successfully exploit them.
  #7  
Old 04-14-2018, 11:50 PM
Hector_St_Clare Hector_St_Clare is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 3,643
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
I think it entirely depends on the man. Me, single, age 25? It would have been incredibly easy. Me, now, married, and closing in on 40? I'm confident I could resist anyone except for Janelle Monae.
My (statistician) friend says that any man who says this is lying.
  #8  
Old 04-15-2018, 12:39 AM
Robot Arm Robot Arm is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Medford, MA
Posts: 22,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hector_St_Clare View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
I think it entirely depends on the man. Me, single, age 25? It would have been incredibly easy. Me, now, married, and closing in on 40? I'm confident I could resist anyone except for Janelle Monae.
My (statistician) friend says that any man who says this is lying.
Clearly a series of controlled experiments are called for.

Would you like to contact Ms. Monae, or shall I?
  #9  
Old 04-15-2018, 07:58 AM
Fretful Porpentine Fretful Porpentine is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Bohemia. A seacoast.
Posts: 6,309
I am sure it is probably easy for some women. For me personally? Not so much. (Even if you specify that the woman is attractive, seducing someone takes a level of confidence and social adeptness that not everyone possesses.)
__________________
Live merrily, and trust to good verses.
-- Robert Herrick
  #10  
Old 04-15-2018, 09:12 AM
Thudlow Boink Thudlow Boink is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Lincoln, IL
Posts: 24,869
Are we distinguishing between seducing a man to do something he considers immoral, unethical, or illegal (like cheating on his wife, sleeping with a subordinate, or getting involved with an underage girl), vs. situations where there are no such hindrances?
  #11  
Old 04-15-2018, 10:10 AM
Pantastic Pantastic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,383
This is a common myth that doesn't actually hold up to reality, and tends to rely on a lot of circular logic. There are significantly more men into casual sex than women, so if you find a guy who just wants a casual bang and you're someone he finds attractive, it's certainly easy to offer him what he wants. I'm not sure that I'd really call it 'seduction' any more than if I go to a party with people who want to get drunk and offer them free beer, that I'm 'seducing' them to drink my beer. But there are men who simply aren't into casual sex, though there is strong social pressure for them to pretend to be in conversation, who just won't be into the offer. There are guys who's 'attractive' range doesn't include the standard, so won't actually find the seducer attractive, and that includes racists who won't be interested in an attractive [race] woman no matter what. There are men with strong fetishes who won't be interested in an offer for vanilla sex. There are men in committed relationships who actually don't cheat. There are men who don't have an interest in real life women, either as a preference or a pathology. There are men with significant trauma who can't stand being touched at all.

So while there are certainly a lot of men who will have casual sex with a conventionally attractive woman, in a lot of those cases 'seduction' is too strong of a word, and there are a lot of men who won't be interested or even will be actively hostile to the idea.
  #12  
Old 04-15-2018, 10:21 AM
Sattua Sattua is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Close to home
Posts: 9,877
The perpendicular answer is that it never in my life occurred to me to try to seduce a man.
  #13  
Old 04-15-2018, 10:42 AM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,400
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantastic View Post
There are men in committed relationships who actually don't cheat.
Not said often enough, IMO.
  #14  
Old 04-15-2018, 11:16 AM
Two Many Cats Two Many Cats is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sattua View Post
The perpendicular answer is that it never in my life occurred to me to try to seduce a man.
A-men to that!

Seriously though, when I was young, I didn't even have to try. Just sitting there was enough.

Now? If I worked on my looks a bit, I suspect it would be easy to snag a lonely older guy. Might have to do a bit more than just sit there though.
  #15  
Old 04-15-2018, 12:12 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 76,473
It also depends on what the woman is trying to get. I wouldn't be very receptive to someone looking for just a one-night stand, but if the same woman were interested in a genuine long-term relationship (or at least, managed to convince me that she was), then I might be.

Of course, this also puts some requirements on the initial conditions. If some random woman bumps into me in the grocery store and says "Hey, you're hot", then I'm not going to assume that she's interested in a long-term relationship. But if we happen to already know each other in some way, and have conversed before, then it becomes more plausible.
  #16  
Old 04-15-2018, 01:52 PM
Pantastic Pantastic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Many Cats View Post
Seriously though, when I was young, I didn't even have to try. Just sitting there was enough.

Now? If I worked on my looks a bit, I suspect it would be easy to snag a lonely older guy. Might have to do a bit more than just sit there though.
That doesn't seem to be related to the question being asked; it's asking if the group "straight men" are easy to seduce, not if it's easy to find a straight man who it's easy to have sex with. If the OP is really just wondering "is it easy for a conventionally attractive woman to find some straight man interested in casual sex with her", then the answer is just a boring 'yes'. (Also, it's not actually hard for a conventionally attractive man to find a woman interested in sex with him, even if you don't count 'pay $100 like the guys in the escorts threads' as easy).

The question only really seems worth discussing if you're talking about it in the sense of 'all straight men', not 'any straight men'.
  #17  
Old 04-15-2018, 05:48 PM
SciFiSam SciFiSam is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Beffnal Green innit
Posts: 8,195
It's easy for most women to find a man to seduce if she really wants to. Some people confuse that with women being and to seduce any man, but even if they're really attractive there are plenty of men who'd resist. If the man's married with kids they'd quite possibly be ruining their entire lives for one night of sex, and yeah, some men would still go for it, but all? Not likely.
  #18  
Old 04-15-2018, 05:57 PM
FlikTheBlue FlikTheBlue is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,200
I think several other things would at least come into consideration for many men, even single men. If this is a woman I just met, how do I know she isn’t mentally unstable? How do I know she isn’t working with someone else and plans to rob me once I’m naked? If a woman I had never met tried to seduce me, even if I were single, I’d be asking myself those questions (and others as well).
  #19  
Old 04-15-2018, 06:33 PM
HoneyBadgerDC HoneyBadgerDC is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Torrance Ca
Posts: 7,559
An 80 year old woman can go out and get laid within a couple of hours if she sets her mind to it.
  #20  
Old 04-15-2018, 07:00 PM
P-man P-man is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Washington, DC area
Posts: 1,296
When I was a lonely twenty something who couldn't get a date to save my life it would have been easy. Now, as a married fifty something, it would be impossible (unless the seductress is Ms. P, of course). Even at my most lonely and frustrated I wouldn't have gotten in the sack with a woman I knew was married, though.
  #21  
Old 04-15-2018, 07:41 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,313
To add to the conversation if you are a guy, you aren't good looking and a woman tries to seduce you, you may suspect there is some dark ulterior motive. Especially if the woman is more attractive than the kinds of women you can normally get. So there is going to be resistance on that front too. Strange women out of your league generally don't try to randomly seduce you unless they have serious mental health problems or want to harvest your kidneys.
__________________
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to sparkle motion
  #22  
Old 04-15-2018, 07:48 PM
Two Many Cats Two Many Cats is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,830
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantastic View Post

The question only really seems worth discussing if you're talking about it in the sense of 'all straight men', not 'any straight men'.
Jesus Christ, you think I got a cast iron cooter or something?
  #23  
Old 04-15-2018, 08:11 PM
CarnalK CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 14,794
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantastic View Post
That doesn't seem to be related to the question being asked; it's asking if the group "straight men" are easy to seduce, not if it's easy to find a straight man who it's easy to have sex with. If the OP is really just wondering "is it easy for a conventionally attractive woman to find some straight man interested in casual sex with her", then the answer is just a boring 'yes'. (Also, it's not actually hard for a conventionally attractive man to find a woman interested in sex with him, even if you don't count 'pay $100 like the guys in the escorts threads' as easy).

The question only really seems worth discussing if you're talking about it in the sense of 'all straight men', not 'any straight men'.
ISTM, that you are adding a crapload to the OP's premise. If a guy is delivering a kidney, I doubt Skald's stepdaughter thinks she can seduce him mid trip. I doubt she thinks she could have seduced SEAL team 6 as they were entering Osama's residence. As a formerly single guy, I waspretty damn easy to seduce and so were most guys I knew who didn't have a good reason to say no. And I know you attempt a little backtrack, but trying to equate it with a guy's ease with seduction, I know you're wrong.

Last edited by CarnalK; 04-15-2018 at 08:13 PM.
  #24  
Old 04-15-2018, 08:21 PM
CarnalK CarnalK is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 14,794
Of course, knowing Skald threads, the proponents are probably the reverse of my original thoughts.
  #25  
Old 04-15-2018, 09:41 PM
PastTense PastTense is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,382
Then there are the guys who are totally oblivious that women are sexually interested in them.
  #26  
Old 04-15-2018, 09:44 PM
dropzone dropzone is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Cloud Cuckoo Land
Posts: 28,604
Quote:
Originally Posted by Two Many Cats View Post
Now? If I worked on my looks a bit, I suspect it would be easy to snag a lonely older guy. Might have to do a bit more than just sit there though.
Yeah. Say "Hi."
__________________
This seems to be pretty definitive.
posted by logicpunk at 10:07 AM on December 20, 2007 [3 favorites]
  #27  
Old 04-15-2018, 09:55 PM
PastTense PastTense is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,382
If you look at the opposite, men seducing women, even the best seducers, the players, have a low success rate--but they make it up in volume. I remember an article about a successful player having only a 5% or so success rate on the women he approached. But he was very good at quickly recognizing that he was not likely to be successful after perhaps only a few minutes talking so dropped this attempt and moving onto the next possibility. [This is in contrast to the threads we have in Straight Dope where a guy is hung up on a girl for weeks or months and wonders if he should ask her for a date.]
  #28  
Old 04-15-2018, 10:17 PM
Gatopescado Gatopescado is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: on your last raw nerve
Posts: 18,835
Well, an observation from the other team:

Every women who wanted to take me to the boneyard was successful. Some of them were attractive, too.

Sadly, too small of a sample size for scientific usefulness.
  #29  
Old 04-15-2018, 11:05 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 27,441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink View Post
Are we distinguishing between seducing a man to do something he considers immoral, unethical, or illegal (like cheating on his wife, sleeping with a subordinate, or getting involved with an underage girl), vs. situations where there are no such hindrances?
I can hardly speak for everyone else in this thread, but all Cinderella the Rhymer & I were talking about was legal & moral seduction. Admittedly, she was also trying to give me a stroke. :-)
__________________
"Don't get emotional, T'Challa."

"I'm not emotional. I'm happy. All my enemies are in the same place."
  #30  
Old 04-15-2018, 11:10 PM
Gatopescado Gatopescado is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: on your last raw nerve
Posts: 18,835
Huh huh... He said, "Stroke'.
  #31  
Old 04-15-2018, 11:44 PM
AHunter3 AHunter3 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: NY (Manhattan) NY USA
Posts: 19,694
I forget who it was (Mae West? Anne Sekel?) who said "you can't rape the willing", but the general sentiment would also seem to apply to seduction.

To what extent are straight men (in general) available to be had by any female person who wishes to have them? There are aspects of the legend that say males are spectacularly unpicky and perpetually horny. But there are also tales of guys who are quick to be derisive of women who don't match up to beauty standards sufficiently well as to be regarded as fuckworthy.

The only strongly relevant thing I can attest to having seen in my own life is that some of the same guys who so often proclaim their readiness ("anytime, anywhere baby") get put off-balance quite a bit when they aren't the initiators. The guy across the street from me when I was in high school confessed that he'd been picked up hitchhiking by an older but quite nice-looking woman who apparently wanted to pick him up, not just pick him up. She told him "I've got all day free" and he mumbled about having to be at football practice and so she let him off.

"I can't believe I did that", he told me. "What's wrong with me? I could've blown off practice and come up with an excuse."

As for the women, I'm all in favor of more women deciding to initiate overtly, but I recommend that they realize the lesson from the above anecdote and smooth out their approach — NOT that they retreat to indirect flirtation to assuage the male ego and all that shit, but that they take into account how spooked people can get when they get hit upon (at least until it has happened so often that they're jaded to it... guys mostly aren't). Move in confidently but don't make it a dare or a challenge.

Based on what I've heard from the women who've done it, it's fun. Lots of women, I think, would say that they've never seen the need for it, there's sufficient supply of penis without having to do such a thing. As for the guys, I think unless it suddenly started happening so often and universally that it got to be a distinct annoyance and even somehow a threat, yeah we're probably a pretty easy target. But not effortlessly easy. See above.
  #32  
Old 04-16-2018, 01:38 AM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,241
If the question really is meant to be "Is it very easy to get a single straight man into bed, for a single straight woman who wants to get him there, when there are no moral obstacles for either of them?" ...

Then I think the answer is just "yes".
  #33  
Old 04-16-2018, 02:06 AM
up_the_junction up_the_junction is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: South London
Posts: 4,746
I observe that very many men stoically go through their working life under appreciated and under praised. Consequently, they are naturally vulnerable to acknowledgement of their efforts. It is not rocket science.
__________________
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who believes themselves free Goethe
  #34  
Old 04-16-2018, 02:28 AM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 19,313
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastTense View Post
If you look at the opposite, men seducing women, even the best seducers, the players, have a low success rate--but they make it up in volume. I remember an article about a successful player having only a 5% or so success rate on the women he approached. But he was very good at quickly recognizing that he was not likely to be successful after perhaps only a few minutes talking so dropped this attempt and moving onto the next possibility. [This is in contrast to the threads we have in Straight Dope where a guy is hung up on a girl for weeks or months and wonders if he should ask her for a date.]
How did he define success? getting a phone number? Getting a date? Having sex?

Do you recall the article? It sounds interesting.
__________________
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to sparkle motion
  #35  
Old 04-16-2018, 02:49 AM
Filbert Filbert is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,298
'Seduction' to me implies an element of persuasion, of overcoming initial reluctance. I don't think that's very easy, in general, for women. Finding a guy -any guy- that's up for it isn't hard, but persuasion isn't normally involved.

A lot of guys like being the initiator, or the chooser, and have a very negative reaction to women who attempt to take that role. Of course some guys don't mind and a few prefer it (according to family legend my Grandpa was practically clubbed over the head and dragged off by Grandma; he was confused but happy about it). Women have that (bloody stupid imho) traditional concept of 'make him work for it' where the lady is supposed to show no interest until the gentleman shows he's persistent and serious, which is where seduction comes into play, but there is no tradition for the idea with genders reversed.

Sure, some guys may initially not be interested due to circumstances/fear of kidney harvest/not paying attention and may change his mind later after sufficient time or show of interest, but to a large extent, it's not really affected by 'seduction'. You might be able to change the mind of a few maybes, but there are far fewer of them than the nopes and the yeses.
  #36  
Old 04-16-2018, 09:16 AM
Velocity Velocity is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 11,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by up_the_junction View Post
I observe that very many men stoically go through their working life under appreciated and under praised. Consequently, they are naturally vulnerable to acknowledgement of their efforts. It is not rocket science.
This is it, basically.

A good analogy for the OP's question is to imagine an economic recession. You have people lining up at job fairs, sending in dozens of applications, trying their best to land an interview, many futilely.

Now imagine that you are an employer, going around offering well-paying jobs to these unemployed people. How long will it take you to get them in for an interview and for them to accept your job offers? For many of them, only about as much time as it takes for their mouths to pronounce the word "Yes."
  #37  
Old 04-16-2018, 09:54 AM
Pantastic Pantastic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarnalK View Post
ISTM, that you are adding a crapload to the OP's premise.
And I think that if the OP is just asking 'are there some straight guys looking to bang any attractive woman out there', then it's not an interesting question at all, uses incorrect language, and the obvious answer is 'yes'.

Quote:
If a guy is delivering a kidney,
None of my examples involved attempting to seduce someone in the middle of a time critical operation like delivering a kidney or engaging in a military mission. They all involved general preferences or steady life situations, like 'have a fetish for X' or 'are married'.

Quote:
As a formerly single guy, I waspretty damn easy to seduce and so were most guys I knew who didn't have a good reason to say no. And I know you attempt a little backtrack, but trying to equate it with a guy's ease with seduction, I know you're wrong.
As I said before, I don't think that just offering someone what they're already looking for in exactly the way they're looking for counts as 'seduction'. If I go to a party where people want to drink and offer them free beer, I'm not really seducing them to drink my beer. It only makes sense to use the word 'seduction' if there's some degree of reluctance to overcome in the beginning and you're doing something active, like at least initiating conversation.

And your claim of easy 'seduction' doesn't seem to match very well with the reality that female friends of mine have experienced. I know a number of women who experimented with making first contact on dating/hookup sites, and found that it puts the majority of men off enough that the contact goes nowhere. There simply are a huge chunk of men who will not say yes if a woman makes the first contact. There's also a lot of guys who will say 'yes' on the initial chat/message, but then not show up in person for the actual date/hookup. I had one friend who, before she started filtering out 'probable time wasters' had a streak of 19/20 no-shows.
  #38  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:01 AM
Thudlow Boink Thudlow Boink is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Lincoln, IL
Posts: 24,869
Yeah, I don't think everyone in this thread is on the same page about what it means to seduce someone. Anybody want to try offering a working definition?
  #39  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:04 AM
Pantastic Pantastic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatopescado View Post
Every women who wanted to take me to the boneyard was successful. Some of them were attractive, too.
How did you determine that you didn't miss any signals from a woman who was interested, or tune out a woman that you weren't interested in? I know that in my younger days I missed a LOT of opportunities by not seeing signals that I was supposed to pick up on, and I'm sure I don't have a complete set. And I know that it's really common for men to completely tune out any subtle hints from a woman that he's not attracted to. I've heard enough complaints from both sides on this that I'd lay money you missed at least one in your time. And I'd certainly count 'attempted to seduce, subject didn't even notice' in the non-easy column.
  #40  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:12 AM
Pantastic Pantastic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
Now imagine that you are an employer, going around offering well-paying jobs to these unemployed people. How long will it take you to get them in for an interview and for them to accept your job offers? For many of them, only about as much time as it takes for their mouths to pronounce the word "Yes."
If you offer someone a lot of money to do something they would like to do anyway, I'm not sure that it actually counts as 'seduction' of any sort.
  #41  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:26 AM
Velocity Velocity is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 11,224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantastic View Post
If you offer someone a lot of money to do something they would like to do anyway, I'm not sure that it actually counts as 'seduction' of any sort.
That is missing my point and misinterpreting the analogy. My point is that in many situations, men and women are analogous to job-seekers and employers, in the sense that men want something and women have it to offer. So a woman is typically in a position of advantage in the way that an employer is in a position of advantage vis-a-vis a job seeker.
  #42  
Old 04-16-2018, 10:57 AM
Inigo Montoya Inigo Montoya is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: On the level, if inclined
Posts: 14,009
Curious thread. You'd almost think men were a morally and aesthetically diverse bunch who have strong sex drives they can generally keep in check.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink View Post
Yeah, I don't think everyone in this thread is on the same page about what it means to seduce someone. Anybody want to try offering a working definition?
How about: persuading a guy to behave significantly less cautiously than he otherwise would? That way it doesn't have to involve home-wrecking immorality.

Example: no fun time with coworkers, no fun time with someone on rebound, no fun time while on rebound. My current bride persuaded me to set these three aside, but nearly ran me off instead (I'm skittish when a deal appears to be weighted in my favor). She wore me down. 10 years on I'm still wondering what her angle is.

Last edited by Inigo Montoya; 04-16-2018 at 10:58 AM.
  #43  
Old 04-16-2018, 11:28 AM
Robot Arm Robot Arm is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Medford, MA
Posts: 22,309
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantastic View Post
And your claim of easy 'seduction' doesn't seem to match very well with the reality that female friends of mine have experienced. I know a number of women who experimented with making first contact on dating/hookup sites, and found that it puts the majority of men off enough that the contact goes nowhere. There simply are a huge chunk of men who will not say yes if a woman makes the first contact.
How do they know that it was the first contact that was putting them off? Maybe the guys that they contacted just didn't fancy them for whatever reason. Obviously you're going to have a better success rate connecting with men who've already expressed an interest than with those who haven't.

I think more women should make first contact like that. If it works, great; and if it doesn't they'll have a better understanding of what guys go through having to make the first move all the time.
  #44  
Old 04-16-2018, 01:03 PM
AK84 AK84 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 14,464
I think it was the Stasi and the KGB which discovered that men were difficult to seduce while women could be had easily.
  #45  
Old 04-16-2018, 01:42 PM
Aquadementia Aquadementia is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,808
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink View Post
Yeah, I don't think everyone in this thread is on the same page about what it means to seduce someone. Anybody want to try offering a working definition?
If it's accepting a serving of peach cobbler then it takes virtually no effort to seduce me.
  #46  
Old 04-16-2018, 08:35 PM
TokyoBayer TokyoBayer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Taiwan
Posts: 9,231
I'd like to hear from the OP on what exactly he and his step daughter defined as seduction.

As many others have pointed out, the average guy is much more likely to accept casual sex. That can hardly be a secret.
  #47  
Old 04-16-2018, 09:23 PM
Sunspace Sunspace is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Near the GT eeehhhh...
Posts: 27,531
Quote:
Originally Posted by PastTense View Post
Then there are the guys who are totally oblivious that women are sexually interested in them.
And then there are the guys who are painfully aware that women are rarely interested in them.
__________________
Rigardu, kaj vi ekvidos.
Look, and you will begin to see.
  #48  
Old 04-17-2018, 08:58 AM
Pantastic Pantastic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
That is missing my point and misinterpreting the analogy. My point is that in many situations, men and women are analogous to job-seekers and employers, in the sense that men want something and women have it to offer. So a woman is typically in a position of advantage in the way that an employer is in a position of advantage vis-a-vis a job seeker.
I'm not misinterpreting the analogy at all, it's just a bad analogy if we're talking about 'seduction' and 'straight men'. As you just pointed out, you're analogizing the pool of "all straight men" to "job-seekers who have been out of work for some time and are in dire need of money to survive and are qualified for the job being offered", but that's not a good analogy. As I pointed out earlier, there are straight men who (following the analogy) 'already have a job', 'aren't interested in this job', 'aren't qualified for this job', 'would rather apply for the job and fantasize about getting it but just stay home rather than actually go interview for the job', and so on. The analogy really only works for something like 'straight guys who haven't gotten laid for some time, want casual sex in the style she's offering, find this particular person attractive, aren't in a relationship,' but the original claim is that a woman can easily seduce "a man she desires" and doesn't put those rather severe limitations on the pool.

And again, just offering something people want and having some of them take it doesn't count as seduction, and the fact that some people will take it certainly doesn't
mean that I can getIf I go to a party with a couple of pepperoni pizzas, open them up, and say 'hey, who wants pizza', odds are the pizza will be gone quickly. But I don't think it's appropriate to say that I seduced anyone into eating pizza. Further, there will be party-goers who aren't interested in the pizza - lactose intolerant guy can't eat cheese, vegetarian guy won't eat meat, guy who just ate an hour ago isn't hungry, healthy diet guy won't leave his food plan, and so on. So even though I can empty my pizza boxes at the party, I can't easily seduce anyone I want into eating pizza.
  #49  
Old 04-17-2018, 09:05 AM
Pantastic Pantastic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robot Arm View Post
How do they know that it was the first contact that was putting them off? Maybe the guys that they contacted just didn't fancy them for whatever reason. Obviously you're going to have a better success rate connecting with men who've already expressed an interest than with those who haven't.
Well, responses like 'what the hell is wrong with you that you're making the first move' make it pretty obvious that making the first move put the guy off, and there are a bunch of those. And women are actually capable of analyzing data, like comparing the results of 'contacted the guy but waited for him to actually ask to do anything' to 'contacted the guy and went ahead and asked him out'.

Quote:
I think more women should make first contact like that. If it works, great; and if it doesn't they'll have a better understanding of what guys go through having to make the first move all the time.
Have you ever actually talked to a female friend about their dating experiences?
  #50  
Old 04-17-2018, 09:07 AM
Pantastic Pantastic is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 3,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantastic View Post
and the fact that some people will take it certainly doesn't
mean that I can get
missed the edit window, that should end with "that I can get anyone in the group to take it".
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:55 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017