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Old 04-20-2018, 03:29 PM
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Allison Mack: actress, sex cult leader, felon.

I've been reading this story of months, but haven't noticed it discussed here on the Dope. Allison Mack (probably best known as Chloe on Smallville, but I also liked her on the short-lived Opposite Sex) joined a sex cult, rose to the top of the ranks, and recruited and blackmailed other women to be sex slaves. She has now been arrested. Also associated with the cult (but not yet arrested, it seems) is Mack's Smallville costar, Kristin Kreuk.

(If this cult really wanted more membership, they should have advertised sex with Allison Mack and Kristin Kreuk. They could have led a worldwide revival!)
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Old 04-20-2018, 03:43 PM
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That guy looks exactly like somebody... I don't know the name of. Young Andrew McCarthy maybe? Or perhaps he's just a generic white guy.
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Old 04-20-2018, 04:05 PM
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(If this cult really wanted more membership, they should have advertised sex with Allison Mack and Kristin Kreuk. They could have led a worldwide revival!)
Agreed. I never cared much for Miss Concussion-of-the-Week, but Miss Wall-of-Weird was right in my wheelhouse. I had such a crush on her, which is why I'm now so horribly fascinated with all the latest news stories about her.
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Old 04-20-2018, 04:26 PM
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I'd heard something about this before; would have sworn it was here. I did a search and couldn't find anything, though.

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That guy looks exactly like somebody... I don't know the name of. Young Andrew McCarthy maybe? Or perhaps he's just a generic white guy.
Reminds me of Grant Goodeve.

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Agreed. I never cared much for Miss Concussion-of-the-Week, but Miss Wall-of-Weird was right in my wheelhouse. I had such a crush on her, which is why I'm now so horribly fascinated with all the latest news stories about her.
I didn't watch Smallville, so I assume that's Kristin Kreuk and Allison Mack, respectively. And I agree, devastatingly cute, but now seriously skeevy.

The article I read said Kreuk ended any association with them several years ago, before any of this stuff happened.

And how the hell do you pronounce NXIVM?

Last edited by Robot Arm; 04-20-2018 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 04-20-2018, 05:03 PM
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And how the hell do you pronounce NXIVM?

It seems it is pronounced 15 to life...
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Old 04-20-2018, 05:15 PM
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She's a felon?
  #7  
Old 04-20-2018, 05:32 PM
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And how the hell do you pronounce NXIVM?
the V is actually a Latin U, so it's pronounced "Nexium."

That's how they roped in the victims. They thought they were getting treatment for acid reflux.
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Old 04-20-2018, 05:43 PM
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the V is actually a Latin U,...
I guess nothing says "top quality sex trafficking" like a Latin U.
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Old 04-20-2018, 05:54 PM
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The article I read said Kreuk ended any association with them several years ago, before any of this stuff happened.
Whew. I was gonna say... I had looked up Kreuk's wikipedia page in recent months and didn't see connection with all this.
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Old 04-20-2018, 05:56 PM
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I am more than a little intrigued about how a dopey-looking middle-aged white guy of middling intelligence and no particular notoriety convinced a modestly-successful attractive Hollywood starlet to recruit sex slaves for him (among other people he duped).

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 04-20-2018 at 05:57 PM.
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Old 04-20-2018, 06:09 PM
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I am more than a little intrigued about how a dopey-looking middle-aged white guy of middling intelligence and no particular notoriety convinced a modestly-successful attractive Hollywood starlet to recruit sex slaves for him (among other people he duped).
And does he have a newsletter?
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Old 04-20-2018, 06:55 PM
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And does he have a newsletter?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlMwc1c0HRQ
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Old 04-20-2018, 06:59 PM
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I am more than a little intrigued about how a dopey-looking middle-aged white guy of middling intelligence and no particular notoriety convinced a modestly-successful attractive Hollywood starlet to recruit sex slaves for him (among other people he duped).
I will point you in the direction of Scientology as a relevant example. Have you ever SEEN L Ron Hubbard? He even invoked sci-fi aliens and it still worked.

My opinion is that most hollywood starlets either had shitty or controlling parents, and then came to hollywood to be directed by a rotating cast of shitty/controlling directors of various levels of intelligence or notoriety, so this dude was just more of the same, with a hefty dose of 'you're special and sexy and deserve to be in the top ranks of my super secret taboo sex club being worshipped by other girls who in hollywood might otherwise be getting cast in the roles you had wanted' to sweeten the deal.

Power (especially taboo power) and specialness. Gets people every damn time.
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Old 04-20-2018, 07:28 PM
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I am more than a little intrigued about how a dopey-looking middle-aged white guy of middling intelligence and no particular notoriety convinced a modestly-successful attractive Hollywood starlet to recruit sex slaves for him (among other people he duped).
Well I'm more optimistic about MY future now, if nothing else.
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Old 04-20-2018, 08:59 PM
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I've been following this for a while. Seeing how sickly Mack looks, I'm not entirely sure how much control she actually had on the situation. She looks just as abused as the others. She just seems to have worked her way up in the cult. And it is a cult--using the techniques from Scientology's worst parts.

I definitely don't assume Kreuk was involved. The way these things work, there is an outer layer of respectability, and an inner circle that engages in the bad stuff. And Kreuk left a while back. If she can leave, then she wasn't very deep. They didn't have enough blackmail on her to keep her in.

I'm not saying any of this because of my affection for these actors. It's just based on what I see when I look into this, and what I remember when I used to research cults. It seems weird that Mack would have had that Twitter statement, and not tried to leave unless they were blackmailing her.

I very much expect her defense to be that she was being forced to do things. And while she may have some crimes herself, I bet they will be smaller ones.

It's the leader who is always the worst. If she were truly second in command, she would be living it up, not being emaciated like the others.
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Old 04-20-2018, 09:48 PM
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I'm guessing that facing a long prison sentence, Mack is going to plead brainwashing and a jury will probably buy it. I'm agnostic as to how much control she had in this situation.
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Old 04-20-2018, 10:17 PM
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And how the hell do you pronounce NXIVM?
If you get them to say it backwards, it'll disappear.
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Old 04-21-2018, 12:10 AM
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Though Kristin Kreuk does not look like to be involved in the skeevy parts, actress Nicki Clyne, who was Cally Tyrol on Battlestar Galactica, does appear to be deep in amongst it.
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Old 04-21-2018, 12:23 AM
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The article I read said Kreuk ended any association with them several years ago, before any of this stuff happened.
She says she joined when she was 23 to help with her shyness. And left five years ago (she's 35 now). So she stayed with them for seven years. Now a weekend course to address shyness, I could buy. But seven years?

If this guy wasn't having threesomes with Kreuk and Mack, I will eat my shoes.
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Old 04-21-2018, 02:40 AM
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Well, it's not just a sex cult, so it's plausible that most of the other famous people connected to them didn't have anything to do with that part.
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Old 04-21-2018, 03:58 PM
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Well, it's not just a sex cult, so it's plausible that most of the other famous people connected to them didn't have anything to do with that part.
Yeah, the cult wouldn't work if it were sex only. They have to have an outer cult that seems at least respectable on the surface to draw people in, and then prey on the most vulnerable.

It is a Scientology spinoff. It's the same tactics. People who just start Scientology don't wind up in the Sea Org. They bring you in deeper, and then blackmail you.

That, Mack's physical condition, and her cries for help on Twitter are the reason I suspect she was a victim brought to the top. She said she'd done terrible things and hated it. That sounds not like a true believer, but someone being blackmailed to stick around by the horrible things.
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Old 04-21-2018, 04:33 PM
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In that case, she's in a perfect position to turn state's evidence. Does anyone else see a plea deal in the offing?
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Old 04-21-2018, 04:45 PM
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In that case, she's in a perfect position to turn state's evidence. Does anyone else see a plea deal in the offing?
If my assessment is correct, that is what I'm hoping will happen. They delayed on going after her until after they went after the top guy--maybe the goal is to get him. But it's also possible he's doing that to her.
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Old 04-21-2018, 04:53 PM
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As offensive as the whole sex slave trafficking crime is... not to trivialize that in any way... but as a sidebar, what about the crime done to language?

D.O.S. is supposedly "Dominus Obsequious Sororium," and the supposed translation 'master over the slave women' is a corruption of Dog-Latin that not even Hogwarts would accept. "Obsequious" is not even Latin but English. "Sororium" is not a word in Latin either. If the phrase were put into correct Latin, it would be something like "Dominus Obsequiarum Sororum," but then the translation would be 'master of the complying sisters'. Actual Latin for 'master over the slave women' would be something like "Dominus Supra Servas."

But nobody is going to care, because nobody studies Latin any more. I never accessed a Latin class in my life, but had to teach myself. My son took Latin in high school because of being a Harry Potter fan, but I suspect the discovery that Rowling was mostly doing it wrong must have put him off the whole subject. His class probably never got around to explaining that Dog-Latin was a thing in the Middle Ages for bored students to joke around with, and that Rowling was writing within that context. I doubt that the NXIVM creep even knew about Dog-Latin or how it was used.
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Old 04-21-2018, 05:42 PM
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I was kinda wondering about another aspect of this. According to CNN:
Quote:
Actress Allison Mack, best known for her role as Clark Kent's clever confidant Chloe on CW's "Smallville," was indicted on Friday on charges of sex trafficking, sex trafficking conspiracy and forced labor conspiracy, according to a statement released by the Justice Department.
It sounds as though the forced labor is a separate charge from the sex trafficking. So what labor were people forced to perform? Did they have to stuff envelopes with the company newsletter, or were they ushers at their seminars; what sort of jobs did this cult have to do that weren't sexual?
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Old 04-21-2018, 07:28 PM
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n.m.

Last edited by Johanna; 04-21-2018 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:16 AM
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Frank Parlato at https://frankreport.com/ has been covering this saga for years now. If you want Details with a capital Deet, click to go down the rabbit hole.
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Old 04-22-2018, 12:40 AM
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It's like she had a secret world.

Oh wait, that's Alex Mack.

(Ah, Larisa Oleynik...Wonder what she's up to now. Oh...just found out on her Wikipedia page she had a stalker. I swear it wasn't me. Hey, I watched the show as a kid in the 90s....it's not like I'm 62.)
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Old 04-22-2018, 01:54 AM
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From OP link
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The slaves were also required to strip naked and succumb to a ritual where each was branded near the pelvis with a symbol incorporating Raniere's initials, officials said.

During those "ceremonies," court papers said, Mack placed her hands on the weeping slaves' chests while instructing the women to "feel the pain ... think of (their) master."
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Old 04-22-2018, 04:41 AM
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Frank Parlato at https://frankreport.com/ has been covering this saga for years now. If you want Details with a capital Deet, click to go down the rabbit hole.
What, Grace Park too? Shit. I liked her.
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:12 AM
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That guy looks exactly like somebody... I don't know the name of. Young Andrew McCarthy maybe? Or perhaps he's just a generic white guy.
In some photos, he looks a lot like Christian Bale.
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Old 04-22-2018, 04:30 PM
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The guy has very broadly-central-European features, what the taxonomists who classify phenotypes (not "race", just the varying combinations of facial characteristics) would describe as "Alpine/Med." Med meaning "Mediterrenean." It's a look that is common with many people of French, German, Italian, Swiss, Austrian, ancestry, or some combination thereof. He looks kind of like Jared Leto. Ralph Macchio is another guy who has that basic look; Rachael Ray also has it. I also have it. We 'Alpine' types are often described as looking "youthful" and "cute", but we have a tendency to get stocky with age. So be it.

Anyway, this guy is a shithead, his accomplices are shitheads, they're all fucked up, and also, the Pope wears a funny hat.
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Old 04-22-2018, 11:23 PM
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This is a very bizarre story, perhaps the most involving a celebrity. Anyways pretty disturbing stuff.
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:22 AM
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What, Grace Park too? Shit. I liked her.
Not only her, but Nicki Clyne who played Cally on BSG is also implicated. It's a very strange story.
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Old 04-23-2018, 11:20 AM
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Whenever I read things like this it really just reminds me of my own biases and cognitive failures. Specifically the halo effect. Why would I be more surprised that Allison Mack or Kristen Kreuk were involved in this than I would of random women I've never heard of? Because of my own assumptions about their mental health, intelligence, wealth, etc. Not because I knew anything about them, but because I assumed things about them. I never made all that many assumptions about Mack or Kreuk mostly because I never thought all that much about them, but I still had a bit of surprise when I read the headline, so clearly I had made the assumption that she wouldn't get caught up in something like this.

I guess it's just another lesson that we all have feet of clay.

Enjoy,
Steven
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Old 04-23-2018, 01:32 PM
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Seeing how sickly Mack looks, I'm not entirely sure how much control she actually had on the situation. She looks just as abused as the others.
Quote:
During those "ceremonies," court papers said, Mack placed her hands on the weeping slaves' chests while instructing the women to "feel the pain ... think of (their) master."
Does this change how you feel? IMO, She's an evil but pretty young thing playing the sympathy card in the court of public opinion, and you appear to have bought it hook, line and sinker.
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Old 04-23-2018, 02:09 PM
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Yeah, there are a number of extremely horrific male serial killers whose wives or girlfriends fully participated in that shit with them...I'm not even going to name the names here, some of it is straight up too horrific and disgusting for me to want to think about, let alone share with others. But there have been several in America, Canada, and the UK, absolutely demented and ghastly husband-and-wife serial killers/rapists/torturers, and the women have tried to play that card at trial. It worked for some, unfortunately.
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Old 04-23-2018, 04:15 PM
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This is a very bizarre story, perhaps the most involving a celebrity. Anyways pretty disturbing stuff.
I don't know; Bob Crane's murder was pretty high on the skeevometer.

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Whenever I read things like this it really just reminds me of my own biases and cognitive failures. Specifically the halo effect. Why would I be more surprised that Allison Mack or Kristen Kreuk were involved in this than I would of random women I've never heard of? Because of my own assumptions about their mental health, intelligence, wealth, etc. Not because I knew anything about them, but because I assumed things about them. I never made all that many assumptions about Mack or Kreuk mostly because I never thought all that much about them, but I still had a bit of surprise when I read the headline, so clearly I had made the assumption that she wouldn't get caught up in something like this.

I guess it's just another lesson that we all have feet of clay.
I don't know if it's that we assume celebrities have some sort of immunity to this sort of thing. It's rare for someone to become a famous actor, and rare for someone to be involved in an involuntary sex cult. When they happen to the same person it's like some weird collision of improbabilities, like finding out that Hedy Lamarr invented cell phones.
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Old 04-24-2018, 12:33 AM
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Whenever I read things like this it really just reminds me of my own biases and cognitive failures. Specifically the halo effect. Why would I be more surprised that Allison Mack or Kristen Kreuk were involved in this than I would of random women I've never heard of? Because of my own assumptions about their mental health, intelligence, wealth, etc. Not because I knew anything about them, but because I assumed things about them. I never made all that many assumptions about Mack or Kreuk mostly because I never thought all that much about them, but I still had a bit of surprise when I read the headline, so clearly I had made the assumption that she wouldn't get caught up in something like this.

I guess it's just another lesson that we all have feet of clay.

Enjoy,
Steven
Your halo effect assumption isn't wrong. It looks like he was targeting "good girls". Whereas a lot of these types will enslave girls with drugs, or target girls with low self esteem, he was targeting powerful, competent, clean living women, because he had that much charisma and brainwashing ability and those are obviously the most desirable women if you can get them. You don't need to think less of them, so much as to realize they were probably naive and thought this was all just part of his motivational techniques. Although Kreuk insists she was gone before the really weird shit started.
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:13 AM
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I think part of it is that you don't expect someone who has worked hard to have success in a notoriously difficult profession to be so unhinged. I think the assumption is that an actor who is able to land roles on a TV series must have her life together in order to succeed.
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Old 04-24-2018, 10:24 AM
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I think part of it is that you don't expect someone who has worked hard to have success in a notoriously difficult profession to be so unhinged. I think the assumption is that an actor who is able to land roles on a TV series must have her life together in order to succeed.
I think it's part of the halo that actors and sports stars have. I've known excellent engineers in my field that are absolute basket cases outside the office. Yes, it usually catches up with their work at some point but they can hide problems for extended periods of time. With actors and athletes we only see them at their best and assume it carries over to the rest of their lives.
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Old 04-24-2018, 01:52 PM
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It appears that Mack is negotiating a plea deal.

http://people.com/crime/allison-mack...-nxivm-arrest/
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Old 04-24-2018, 02:17 PM
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You don't need to think less of them, so much as to realize they were probably naive and thought this was all just part of his motivational techniques.
But I can still think less of them, right? It seems the assumption that they're brainwashed is less probable than the assumption that they knew what they were doing. And any motivational techniques that include branding someone in their pelvic area and referring to someone else as "master" are pretty clearly BS.

Enjoy,
Steven
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Old 04-24-2018, 06:28 PM
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She's out on bail. $5 million. I think this is horseshit.

I'm not even going to link to them here, but if you have a really strong stomach, look up the names Cindy Hendy, Claralyn Balazs, and Karla Homolka.

Fully willing and enthusiastic accomplices to male serial torturers and rapists, they are now all free. Read about what they did. Read about the sentences their male counterparts got. Horseshit. PURE horseshit. This is an outrage.
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Old 04-24-2018, 09:18 PM
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Your halo effect assumption isn't wrong. It looks like he was targeting "good girls". Whereas a lot of these types will enslave girls with drugs, or target girls with low self esteem, he was targeting powerful, competent, clean living women, because he had that much charisma and brainwashing ability and those are obviously the most desirable women if you can get them. You don't need to think less of them, so much as to realize they were probably naive and thought this was all just part of his motivational techniques. Although Kreuk insists she was gone before the really weird shit started.
Branding sex slaves and trafficking people doesn’t seem clean living.
  #46  
Old 04-25-2018, 02:33 AM
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It is a Scientology spinoff. It's the same tactics. People who just start Scientology don't wind up in the Sea Org. They bring you in deeper, and then blackmail you.
To be clear, do you mean NXIVM is Scientology spinoff, i.e. actually originated within or from it, or just that it shares its cult-like aspects? Not to defend Scientology, but a sex cult wouldn't seem to be their thing. If anything, by all I've heard from investigative reporters and former members, Scientology tends towards prudishness. Leah Remini recounted how, as a teen member she was once reprimanded because of her "sexy" underwear, which in fact was something like Hanes Her Way and really not at all risque by average cultural standards.
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Old 04-25-2018, 04:13 AM
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I don't know if it's that we assume celebrities have some sort of immunity to this sort of thing. It's rare for someone to become a famous actor, and rare for someone to be involved in an involuntary sex cult. When they happen to the same person it's like some weird collision of improbabilities, like finding out that Hedy Lamarr invented cell phones.
Agree 100%.

Nitpick: Lamar co-invented frequency-hopping spread spectrum. Spread spectrum is a communications protocol used in many cell phone systems.
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Old 04-25-2018, 06:45 AM
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She's out on bail. $5 million. I think this is horseshit.
You think she's a flight risk?
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Old 04-25-2018, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BigT View Post
Yeah, the cult wouldn't work if it were sex only. They have to have an outer cult that seems at least respectable on the surface to draw people in, and then prey on the most vulnerable.

It is a Scientology spinoff. It's the same tactics. People who just start Scientology don't wind up in the Sea Org. They bring you in deeper, and then blackmail you.

That, Mack's physical condition, and her cries for help on Twitter are the reason I suspect she was a victim brought to the top. She said she'd done terrible things and hated it. That sounds not like a true believer, but someone being blackmailed to stick around by the horrible things.
You mentioned a couple of times how sickly she looked. Where did you see that? When she was released she looked pretty healthy to me.
  #50  
Old 04-25-2018, 08:34 AM
EarlGrayHot EarlGrayHot is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2016
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Loved that show! But I won't admit to being so old that my first tablet was made of stone.
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