Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-23-2018, 04:42 PM
XT's Avatar
XT XT is online now
Agnatheist
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The Great South West
Posts: 33,847
Vehicle attacks

Was just reading about this latest attack in Canada that killed 9 and injured 16 as was thinking about the ramifications of this new vector for nuts and terrorists to kill large numbers of people. I can't think of any way to prevent things like this, since there are always large pedestrian crowds near roadways or other areas vehicles can access, and it seems to me that the copycat effect along with wide publications by the mass media will only make this method used more in the future (as seems to be the case, as the number of these incidents seems to be growing, though that might just be perception).

Can anything be done, or do we just have to suck it up and accept that things like this will happen? Is this even a problem, since out of the many 10's of thousands of vehicle deaths a year in the US alone it's a relatively small handful coming from such attacks?

(please note, this is NOT a gun debate...there are many of them already, so please try and stick to the OP and discuss this topic without straying to others)
__________________
-XT

That's what happens when you let rednecks play with anti-matter!
  #2  
Old 04-23-2018, 04:48 PM
bobot's Avatar
bobot bobot is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 6,559
Without trying to sound flippant, would it kill us to take a close look at what these terrorists are so pissed off about?
  #3  
Old 04-23-2018, 04:52 PM
XT's Avatar
XT XT is online now
Agnatheist
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The Great South West
Posts: 33,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
Without trying to sound flippant, would it kill us to take a close look at what these terrorists are so pissed off about?
Well, in this case it seems like perhaps it's about the G7 conference (maybe?), but it could be anything, including just an accident I suppose or just some nut. So, not sure which 'terrorists' to really ask. The point, though...is there anything we could do about it, regardless of whether it's a nut, a terrorist or something else? I don't think asking what the various people who might be contemplating using this method of mass mayhem might be pissed off about is really going to do much.
__________________
-XT

That's what happens when you let rednecks play with anti-matter!

Last edited by XT; 04-23-2018 at 04:54 PM.
  #4  
Old 04-23-2018, 04:54 PM
John Mace's Avatar
John Mace John Mace is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Bay
Posts: 84,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
Without trying to sound flippant, would it kill us to take a close look at what these terrorists are so pissed off about?
I see what you you did there.
  #5  
Old 04-23-2018, 04:57 PM
bobot's Avatar
bobot bobot is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 6,559
But you (XT) asked if there was anything we could do. Anything at all. We could try to remove the motivation for such acts.
A local lunatic with a vehicle? No, not much we could do. But I don't remember this being a regular occurance in days gone by.

Last edited by bobot; 04-23-2018 at 04:58 PM.
  #6  
Old 04-23-2018, 04:59 PM
Omar Little's Avatar
Omar Little Omar Little is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Within
Posts: 12,133
- ban cattle guards on trucks unless you are a registered rancher
- increased screening at truck rental agencies
- close the re-rental loopholes
- don't permit automatic transmissions on trucks over a certain hp
- increase the driving age on commercial vehicles to 21 or over
  #7  
Old 04-23-2018, 04:59 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 10,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
Without trying to sound flippant, would it kill us to take a close look at what these terrorists are so pissed off about?
What is your understanding of "what [they] are so pissed off about?"
  #8  
Old 04-23-2018, 04:59 PM
XT's Avatar
XT XT is online now
Agnatheist
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The Great South West
Posts: 33,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
But you (XT) asked if there was anything we could do. Anything at all. We could try to remove the motivation for such acts.
A local lunatic with a vehicle? No, not much we could do. But I don't remember this being a regular occurance in days gone by.
No, it wasn't. But that doesn't mean it won't be or isn't today. A lot of things weren't done regularly in the 'days gone by' but are today. These vehicle attacks seem to be gaining popularity in the folks who want to do mass harm, at least that's my perception in the last few years.
__________________
-XT

That's what happens when you let rednecks play with anti-matter!
  #9  
Old 04-23-2018, 05:02 PM
XT's Avatar
XT XT is online now
Agnatheist
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The Great South West
Posts: 33,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omar Little View Post
- ban cattle guards on trucks unless you are a registered rancher
- increased screening at truck rental agencies
- close the re-rental loopholes
- don't permit automatic transmissions on trucks over a certain hp
- increase the driving age on commercial vehicles to 21 or over
Interesting. Have any of these mass vehicle attacks been by someone under 21? I can sort of see the others, but not sure what that one would achieve.
__________________
-XT

That's what happens when you let rednecks play with anti-matter!
  #10  
Old 04-23-2018, 05:02 PM
bobot's Avatar
bobot bobot is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 6,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
What is your understanding of "what [they] are so pissed off about?"
I propose that we ask them. Is one in custody now in Toronto, or is he dead?
  #11  
Old 04-23-2018, 05:06 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 78,577
I don't see it becoming a major terrorist tactic. Even a successful attack is only going to kill a relatively small number of people. And people already deal with the possibility of being in a car accident. Having the knowledge that terrorists are intentionally causing them would raise the anxiety but it wouldn't be people facing a new threat.
  #12  
Old 04-23-2018, 05:10 PM
scr4 scr4 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Alabama
Posts: 14,911
- Protect high-traffic sidewalks with guard rails and bollards

- Make collision-avoidance systems mandatory on new cars & trucks

Even if they don't eliminate terrorists, they will be worthwhile for reducing injuries and fatalities from accidents.

Last edited by scr4; 04-23-2018 at 05:13 PM.
  #13  
Old 04-23-2018, 05:41 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 10,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
I propose that we ask them. Is one in custody now in Toronto, or is he dead?
The Toronto attacker was arrested. I assume that by now he's got a lawyer that will prevent people from asking "Why did you do that?" (along with any other questions).
  #14  
Old 04-23-2018, 05:55 PM
snfaulkner's Avatar
snfaulkner snfaulkner is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: 123 Fake Street
Posts: 6,825
Ban deathrace 2000!
  #15  
Old 04-23-2018, 05:58 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 10,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I don't see it becoming a major terrorist tactic. Even a successful attack is only going to kill a relatively small number of people. And people already deal with the possibility of being in a car accident. Having the knowledge that terrorists are intentionally causing them would raise the anxiety but it wouldn't be people facing a new threat.
The truck attack in Nice, France killed 86 people and injured hundreds. Aside from 9/11 and attacks using explosives, I'm having trouble thinking of any terrorist attack that had that many casualties.
  #16  
Old 04-23-2018, 06:07 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 10,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by XT View Post
... These vehicle attacks seem to be gaining popularity in the folks who want to do mass harm, at least that's my perception in the last few years.
That certainly seems to be the case:

Quote:
List of terrorist attacks
This list is incomplete; you can help by expanding it.
In chronological order:

1981 Iraqi embassy bombing, Beirut, Lebanon (not ramming pedestrians: ramming a specific building then exploding)
1983 Beirut barracks bombings, Lebanon (building ramming + exploding)
2001 Azor attack, Israel (ramming people, mostly soldiers)
2001 Jammu and Kashmir legislative assembly car bombing (building gate ramming + exploding + gunfire)
2002 Lyon car attack, France (building ramming + fire)
2006 UNC SUV attack, University of North Carolina, United States (ramming people)
2007 Glasgow International Airport attack, Scotland, United Kingdom (building ramming + detonating gas cylinders)
2008 Jerusalem vehicular attack, Israel (ramming vehicles and people)
2008 Jerusalem bulldozer attack, Israel (ramming people)
2011 Tel Aviv truck attack, Israel (ramming vehicles and people)
2011 Tel Aviv nightclub attack, Israel (ramming + stabbing)
May 2013 Murder of Lee Rigby, London, England, United Kingdom (ramming + stabbing)
2013 Tiananmen Square attack, China (ramming people + bursting into flames)
May 2014 Ürümqi attack, China (ramming + throwing bombs off the vehicle)
2014 Jerusalem tractor attack, Israel (ramming people + bus)
2014 Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu ramming attack, Canada (ramming)
October 2014 Jerusalem vehicular attack, Israel (ramming people)
November 2014 Jerusalem vehicular attack, Israel (ramming + hitting with a metal crowbar)
2014 Alon Shvut stabbing attack, West Bank (failed ramming + stabbing)
2014 Dijon attack, France (ramming people)
2014 Nantes attack, France (ramming people)
2016 Nice attack, France (87 killed ramming people + gunfire)
2016 Ohio State University attack, United States (ramming + stabbing)
2016 Berlin attack, Germany (shooting truck driver + ramming people)
2017 Jerusalem truck attack, Israel (ramming people; 4 killed)
2017 Westminster attack, London, England, United Kingdom (ramming + stabbing; some victims were thrown off Westminster Bridge by the ramming; 5 killed)
2017 Stockholm attack, Sweden (ramming people; 5 killed)
June 2017 London Bridge attack, England, United Kingdom (ramming + stabbing; 8 killed)[32]
2017 Finsbury Park attack, London, England, United Kingdom (ramming people; 1 killed)
June 2017 Champs-Élysées car ramming attack, Paris, France (ramming a police car; 1 attacker killed)
2017 Paris mosque attack, failed car ramming into crowd in front of Creteil mosque in revenge for ISIS attacks[33]
2017 Levallois-Perret attack, Levallois-Perret, France (ramming soldiers; none killed)

List of suspected terrorist attacks
2017 Charlottesville attack, during the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, United States (ramming people; 1 killed)
2017 Barcelona attacks (ramming people; 13 killed)
2017 Edmonton attack, Canada (ramming + stabbing; none killed)[34]
2017 New York City truck attack (ramming cyclists and runners; 8 killed)[35]
2018 Toronto van incident (ramming people; 9 killed) [36]
source
  #17  
Old 04-23-2018, 06:14 PM
TroutMan's Avatar
TroutMan TroutMan is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by XT View Post
Interesting. Have any of these mass vehicle attacks been by someone under 21? I can sort of see the others, but not sure what that one would achieve.
I think this was a thinly-veiled attempt to turn this into another gun debate.
  #18  
Old 04-23-2018, 06:25 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 10,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutMan View Post
I think this was a thinly-veiled attempt to turn this into another gun debate.
Parallels and comparisons are almost inevitable on this forum, despite the OP's plea.
  #19  
Old 04-23-2018, 06:31 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,489
An obvious, though far from immediate, solution is technology:

Cars that are smart enough to prevent the driver from running into pedestrian -- "I can't let you do that, Dave."

Last edited by QuickSilver; 04-23-2018 at 06:32 PM.
  #20  
Old 04-23-2018, 06:36 PM
TroutMan's Avatar
TroutMan TroutMan is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Parallels and comparisons are almost inevitable on this forum, despite the OP's plea.
And yet, most people manage to avoid it. Perhaps the remaining few could reach a little higher.
  #21  
Old 04-23-2018, 06:42 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 10,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutMan View Post
And yet, most people manage to avoid it. Perhaps the remaining few could reach a little higher.
We can always hope.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 04-23-2018 at 06:43 PM.
  #22  
Old 04-23-2018, 06:43 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 10,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
An obvious, though far from immediate, solution is technology:

Cars that are smart enough to prevent the driver from running into pedestrian -- "I can't let you do that, Dave."
Sounds like an incubator for SkyNet.
  #23  
Old 04-23-2018, 06:48 PM
silenus's Avatar
silenus silenus is online now
Isaiah 1:15 Screw the NRA.
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: SoCal
Posts: 50,124
Bollards. Lots and lots of bollards.

They also have the secondary advantage of taking out clueless phone-drones.
  #24  
Old 04-23-2018, 07:15 PM
Declan Declan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Barrie , Ontario
Posts: 5,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by XT View Post
Can anything be done, or do we just have to suck it up and accept that things like this will happen
Basically suck it up, even if you were to retrofit camera's in the vehicles that would kill the computer when facial recognition registers a person, or when it determines that its vision system is occluded, terrorists would seek another method. Toronto was picked because its a soft target and a fair amount of people going about their daily business, so target of opportunity.

They do target analysis like we do and identify weak points. We don't know this whack jobs motivation or affiliation if any. I fully expect that CNN will deploy a media tactical team, lay down suppressive video coverage and barrage us with what ifs.

But as to the question posed, they are here in country and can pick the time, place and manner and all we can do is suck it up.
__________________
What would Bugs Bunny say
  #25  
Old 04-23-2018, 08:00 PM
asahi's Avatar
asahi asahi is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 6,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
Without trying to sound flippant, would it kill us to take a close look at what these terrorists are so pissed off about?
I'm not even convinced that he's a terrorist, and some terrorists are people just resort to "terrorism" at a time when they're at the very rock bottom of their lives. A guy with a history of mental instability isn't a terrorist just because he watches a few ISIS videos and decides to shoot up a shopping mall before turning the gun on himself. The guys who buy a plane ticket to go live in the Levant fully aware that they are probably never going to see civilization again? Okay, yeah, maybe those guys are terrorists, but not every madman with a truck.
  #26  
Old 04-23-2018, 08:03 PM
XT's Avatar
XT XT is online now
Agnatheist
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The Great South West
Posts: 33,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
The truck attack in Nice, France killed 86 people and injured hundreds. Aside from 9/11 and attacks using explosives, I'm having trouble thinking of any terrorist attack that had that many casualties.
Imagine what would happen if someone drove such a truck in DC during, say, 4th of July when there are 100's of thousands of people on the mall or walking about. I've seen huge crowds there or in other large cities at various celebrations (New York on New Years Eve, say). I agree with your point here...I think Little Nemo isn't seeing the vast and horrific potential of something that seems to be gaining in popularity among the crazy or evil.
__________________
-XT

That's what happens when you let rednecks play with anti-matter!
  #27  
Old 04-23-2018, 08:07 PM
XT's Avatar
XT XT is online now
Agnatheist
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The Great South West
Posts: 33,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by silenus View Post
Bollards. Lots and lots of bollards.

They also have the secondary advantage of taking out clueless phone-drones.
Yeah, that seems like a really good idea, especially in cities and especially where really large crowds of people gather. I like the anti-drone potential as well

Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver
An obvious, though far from immediate, solution is technology:

Cars that are smart enough to prevent the driver from running into pedestrian -- "I can't let you do that, Dave."
This is obviously further out, but was also one of my first thoughts. I suppose in 10 or maybe 20 years, if this sort of thing does become common, it might actually push for a change over from human drivers to some sort of regulated and monitored automated system. It might actually make the transition easier and people less nervous if they come to fear human drivers more than they do the perceived loss of control on their part. Regardless, I think such an automated system would save a lot more lives than would be lost otherwise.
__________________
-XT

That's what happens when you let rednecks play with anti-matter!
  #28  
Old 04-23-2018, 08:09 PM
Declan Declan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Barrie , Ontario
Posts: 5,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by XT View Post
Imagine what would happen if someone drove such a truck in DC during, say, 4th of July when there are 100's of thousands of people on the mall or walking about. I've seen huge crowds there or in other large cities at various celebrations (New York on New Years Eve, say). I agree with your point here...I think Little Nemo isn't seeing the vast and horrific potential of something that seems to be gaining in popularity among the crazy or evil.

Pick any city in North America with a decent size mall at Christmas and bash through with a vehicle.
__________________
What would Bugs Bunny say
  #29  
Old 04-23-2018, 08:10 PM
XT's Avatar
XT XT is online now
Agnatheist
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The Great South West
Posts: 33,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
I'm not even convinced that he's a terrorist, and some terrorists are people just resort to "terrorism" at a time when they're at the very rock bottom of their lives. A guy with a history of mental instability isn't a terrorist just because he watches a few ISIS videos and decides to shoot up a shopping mall before turning the gun on himself. The guys who buy a plane ticket to go live in the Levant fully aware that they are probably never going to see civilization again? Okay, yeah, maybe those guys are terrorists, but not every madman with a truck.
The latest report I read (a few hours ago now) gave basically zero details, so we know almost nothing at this point and shouldn't jump to any conclusions. This guy could be a nut, could be an actual terrorist or could just be someone with control issues. This could still just be a really nasty accident or maybe the driver was impaired for some reason. Until we know more we shouldn't speculate.

I did notice that the death toll is now 10 and more injured than the earlier report.
__________________
-XT

That's what happens when you let rednecks play with anti-matter!
  #30  
Old 04-23-2018, 08:11 PM
Whack-a-Mole's Avatar
Whack-a-Mole Whack-a-Mole is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 20,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by scr4 View Post
- Protect high-traffic sidewalks with guard rails and bollards
I live and work in Chicago and bollards are surrounding most important buildings like the federal courts (you can spin that picture around to see them...I walk that sidewalk almost daily), federal reserve and some other places.

That said they are far from everywhere and I am hard pressed to imagine them ending up everywhere.
  #31  
Old 04-23-2018, 08:12 PM
Declan Declan is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Barrie , Ontario
Posts: 5,236
Quote:
Originally Posted by asahi View Post
I'm not even convinced that he's a terrorist, and some terrorists are people just resort to "terrorism" at a time when they're at the very rock bottom of their lives. A guy with a history of mental instability isn't a terrorist just because he watches a few ISIS videos and decides to shoot up a shopping mall before turning the gun on himself. The guys who buy a plane ticket to go live in the Levant fully aware that they are probably never going to see civilization again? Okay, yeah, maybe those guys are terrorists, but not every madman with a truck.
The amount of Casualties trips the Terrorism flag, not the motive.
__________________
What would Bugs Bunny say
  #32  
Old 04-23-2018, 08:34 PM
Larry Borgia's Avatar
Larry Borgia Larry Borgia is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 10,287
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
Without trying to sound flippant, would it kill us to take a close look at what these terrorists are so pissed off about?
They are annoyed that we are alive, and would prefer that we are dead. Just like Adam Lanza, Stephen Paddock, and Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.

I'm sure that you were being coy here, and have a point. Why not say it?
  #33  
Old 04-23-2018, 08:42 PM
Larry Borgia's Avatar
Larry Borgia Larry Borgia is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 10,287
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Borgia View Post
They are annoyed that we are alive, and would prefer that we are dead. Just like Adam Lanza, Stephen Paddock, and Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.

I'm sure that you were being coy here, and have a point. Why not say it?
Too late to edit: Apparently he was pissed that he wasn't getting laid. So I'm not sure what you propose to do about that.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...sian-1.4632435

Last edited by Larry Borgia; 04-23-2018 at 08:44 PM.
  #34  
Old 04-23-2018, 09:25 PM
Chronos's Avatar
Chronos Chronos is online now
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 79,059
If we're going to make comparisons to firearms, then consider: Car companies really are working on "smart cars" that would prevent people from misusing them, and pretty much everyone thinks that that's a pretty good idea, and it's meeting no controversy at all. But if a gun manufacturer even thinks about doing the same thing, the NRA and their minions think that's the Worst Thing Ever, and hound that company into bankruptcy.
  #35  
Old 04-23-2018, 09:53 PM
eschereal's Avatar
eschereal eschereal is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Frogstar World B
Posts: 14,699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Borgia View Post
Too late to edit: Apparently he was pissed that he wasn't getting laid. So I'm not sure what you propose to do about that.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...sian-1.4632435
Like that guy in Isla Vista California about four years ago who killed a bunch of people because of sexual frustration. So either that one was “terrorism” or this one was not. Which could make a mess of our whole classification system.
  #36  
Old 04-23-2018, 10:18 PM
Tamerlane Tamerlane is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SF Bay Area, California
Posts: 13,284
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschereal View Post
Like that guy in Isla Vista California about four years ago who killed a bunch of people because of sexual frustration. So either that one was “terrorism” or this one was not. Which could make a mess of our whole classification system.
It's terrorism if it is ideologically motivated and attempting to spread fear to gain some result.

If the above motive is confirmed there is kinda an ideology here, but it's so far out in la-la land I have a hard time labeling a whackadoo of this sort a terrorist. This is more Charles Whitman territory, even if a few deranged "incels" around the internet decide to eventually label him a hero for striking out at the sexually successful oppressors keeping them down .
  #37  
Old 04-23-2018, 10:31 PM
Whack-a-Mole's Avatar
Whack-a-Mole Whack-a-Mole is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 20,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by eschereal View Post
Like that guy in Isla Vista California about four years ago who killed a bunch of people because of sexual frustration. So either that one was “terrorism” or this one was not. Which could make a mess of our whole classification system.
"Terrorism" is defined as such because the violence has political aims. So things like Las Vegas and Columbine are not terrorism (at least I don't think the Vegas shootings had political aims).
  #38  
Old 04-23-2018, 10:54 PM
Gatopescado's Avatar
Gatopescado Gatopescado is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: on your last raw nerve
Posts: 20,143
C'mon, people! No love for Priscila?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priscilla_Ford
  #39  
Old 04-23-2018, 11:43 PM
Lamoral Lamoral is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 2,065
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
The truck attack in Nice, France killed 86 people and injured hundreds. Aside from 9/11 and attacks using explosives, I'm having trouble thinking of any terrorist attack that had that many casualties.
The Bataclan had more, and was a shooting. And the disgusting photos from that incident will not soon be forgotten by anyone who saw them. In fact, I am quite convinced that this attack and the others in Europe around the same timeframe, were a large factor in getting Donald Trump elected. Yes, even though they happened in Europe, people in America were glued to their TVs and computers witnessing the carnage in Europe caused by Islamic terrorism, and Trump capitalized on this fear very successfully.
__________________
Meet me at Jacquernagy Park.
  #40  
Old 04-24-2018, 12:31 AM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 10,993
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacquernagy View Post
The Bataclan had more, and was a shooting. And the disgusting photos from that incident will not soon be forgotten by anyone who saw them. In fact, I am quite convinced that this attack and the others in Europe around the same timeframe, were a large factor in getting Donald Trump elected. Yes, even though they happened in Europe, people in America were glued to their TVs and computers witnessing the carnage in Europe caused by Islamic terrorism, and Trump capitalized on this fear very successfully.
According to Wikipedia, witnesses said they used hand grenades and had suicide vests that detonated as well.
  #41  
Old 04-24-2018, 01:22 AM
adaher adaher is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Florida
Posts: 28,491
There probably isn't much we can do. And if you get rid of guns, they'll just use vehicles, which are even more deadly. And no, you can't make them hate us less. The ones who actually kill people are supremacists. Treat them as you would right-wing nationalists. Because they are.
  #42  
Old 04-24-2018, 03:06 AM
Delicious Delicious is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 565
Bollards sound good but why not go for trees instead? Nice pretty trees everywhere.
  #43  
Old 04-24-2018, 04:14 AM
Novelty Bobble Novelty Bobble is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: South East England
Posts: 7,809
Auto-braking and collision-avoidance will become mandatory soon enough. It is already common across new vehicles. This together with management of traffic/pedestrian areas should held reduce this. You can't fully eradicate such things but you can make it much more difficult without infringing on the lawful use of vehicles.
__________________
I'm saving this space for the first good insult hurled my way
  #44  
Old 04-24-2018, 04:51 AM
asahi's Avatar
asahi asahi is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: On your computer screen
Posts: 6,965
Quote:
Originally Posted by Declan View Post
The amount of Casualties trips the Terrorism flag, not the motive.
Are mass shooters necessarily "terrorists" or people just having a bad life?
  #45  
Old 04-24-2018, 05:05 AM
bobot's Avatar
bobot bobot is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 6,559
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Borgia View Post
Too late to edit: Apparently he was pissed that he wasn't getting laid. So I'm not sure what you propose to do about that.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...sian-1.4632435
If you were addressing me I propose to quote my own post, you seem to have missed it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobot View Post
...
A local lunatic with a vehicle? No, not much we could do. ...
  #46  
Old 04-24-2018, 05:45 AM
thirdname thirdname is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: East Coast of USA
Posts: 3,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Borgia View Post
Too late to edit: Apparently he was pissed that he wasn't getting laid. So I'm not sure what you propose to do about that.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...sian-1.4632435
That report is probably a hoax by 4chan. It was based on an alleged post where the guy addresses "Sgt 4chan" and then spouts a bunch of "incel" buzzwords.

https://twitter.com/cmcdonaldglobal/...64214053654529
  #47  
Old 04-24-2018, 07:02 AM
Ruken Ruken is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 6,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by XT View Post
Is this even a problem
Not one that rational people spend much time worrying about.

We don't need to "do something" to prevent every conceivable evil act.
  #48  
Old 04-24-2018, 07:07 AM
SenorBeef SenorBeef is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 27,333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Declan View Post
The amount of Casualties trips the Terrorism flag, not the motive.
That's a ridiculous definition that no one would use. If a drunk driver falls asleep at the wheel and knocks a school bus off a cliff, killing 40 kids, it's terrorism?

Your other point is right on, though. Suck it up. The world has 7 billion people, lots of which are nuts or evil. All things considered, we live in, by far, the most peaceful and safe time to be alive. Freaking out about a few people being killed here and there only serves to give you the wrong sense that the world isn't that safe and gives you anxiety that degrades your quality of life even though the chance of something like this happening to you is infinitesemal.

Furthermore, people doing this sort of thing look for weak spots. After 9/11 we spent a lot of money, inconvenienced a lot of people, and damaged our idea of privacy because we were basically chasing the last attack. So the next attack will use a different mechanism. If we hypothetically spent billions putting up rails everywhere and taking other measures, then people would find another weakness and attack that.

That said, putting up bollards at high traffic easy access areas is relatively cheap and also protects against drunks/people having a seizure/old people who can't drive, so it's probably a cost effective idea in some places.

Last edited by SenorBeef; 04-24-2018 at 07:08 AM.
  #49  
Old 04-24-2018, 07:24 AM
Ruken Ruken is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 6,496
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorBeef View Post
That said, putting up bollards at high traffic easy access areas is relatively cheap and also protects against drunks/people having a seizure/old people who can't drive, so it's probably a cost effective idea in some places.
Right. There are some places where walking doesn't feel very safe due to risk of accidents. That might be worth attention.
  #50  
Old 04-24-2018, 07:30 AM
l0k1 l0k1 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by XT View Post
Imagine what would happen if someone drove such a truck in DC during, say, 4th of July ...
They wouldn't get very far. You can't drive a truck on either side of the mall, even on a normal weekday. And everything has been surrounded by bollards for more than 10 years now.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:46 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017