Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-24-2018, 01:23 PM
blood63 blood63 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 461
Obama vs. Trump - Any overlapping opinions?

From what I know about American politics, it is very polarized. You either like Obama and hate Trump or the other way around.
Personally, I liked Obama as a person. He seems to be a nice guy, very caring and smart. Mind you, that doesn't always make the best leader.
Trump seems like an absolutely detestable ass. But, I am willing to concede that his leadership skills, though very unconventional, might be effective long term.
I wonder if there is any out there who likes both presidents or hates both of them.
I am interested in any opinions about who is the better president.
  #2  
Old 04-24-2018, 01:43 PM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,221
Trump's leadership skills are extremely and stereotypically conventional. It's just not by the same convention as previous presidents. If you look at how Joseph McCarthy and Adolf Hitler handled things, Trump is the same old shit. See "demagogue". Lots of German people supported Hitler because he was going to clean up the country's politics and make Germany great again.

Last edited by DavidwithanR; 04-24-2018 at 01:45 PM.
  #3  
Old 04-24-2018, 01:49 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 76,438
There have to be some folks who like both, or one or the other wouldn't have been able to get elected. I've never met any of them, though.
  #4  
Old 04-24-2018, 01:50 PM
Lemur866 Lemur866 is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The Middle of Puget Sound
Posts: 21,605
Lying thin-skinned braggadocios conman is an unconventional leadership style?
  #5  
Old 04-24-2018, 01:51 PM
Velocity Velocity is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 11,205
Both Obama and Trump ran on a platform of "change" in 2008 and 2016, respectively, or at least represented "change" to their supporters.

Both Obama and Trump have been bombing ISIS, etc. (Just like almost any POTUS would)

Trump is one of the more pro-labor-union Republicans, and Obama probably no doubt supported labor unions.
  #6  
Old 04-24-2018, 01:52 PM
blood63 blood63 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
There have to be some folks who like both, or one or the other wouldn't have been able to get elected. I've never met any of them, though.
Good point but voting for someone and liking them can be two different things. Often, it is just choosing the best of the worst. Trump ran against Clinton and she was not popular.
  #7  
Old 04-24-2018, 01:54 PM
blood63 blood63 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemur866 View Post
Lying thin-skinned braggadocios conman is an unconventional leadership style?
Point taken but in my 54 year life, I have not seen it taken to such a depth. For those Americans who think Trumps behaviour is normal for a leader, I feel sorry for you.
  #8  
Old 04-24-2018, 01:55 PM
Morgenstern Morgenstern is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 11,536
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidwithanR View Post
Trump's leadership skills are extremely and stereotypically conventional.....
Leadership skills?
Conventional?
Stereotypical?

I'm not seeing that.

ETA, did you mean impulsive, irrational and immature?
__________________
Remember, pillage before burning.

Last edited by Morgenstern; 04-24-2018 at 01:57 PM.
  #9  
Old 04-24-2018, 01:56 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 23,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
Trump is one of the more pro-labor-union Republicans, and Obama probably no doubt supported labor unions.
Well.... Trump supports blue collar guys in a different way than Obama did. Obama did so by promulgating regulations on workplace safety and whatnot. Trump talks about how awesome coal and steel are.
  #10  
Old 04-24-2018, 01:59 PM
Buck Godot Buck Godot is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: MD outside DC
Posts: 4,650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
There have to be some folks who like both, or one or the other wouldn't have been able to get elected. I've never met any of them, though.
This may be due in a large part to people who
1) liked Obama but weren't motivated to vote in 2016
2) didn't vote in 2012 but were energized by Trump
3) Liked Obama but hated Hillary so much that they decided to vote for Trump out of spite.

I imagine that the overlap of people who were enthusiastic Obama supporters but are no enthusiastic Trump supporters is pretty small.
  #11  
Old 04-24-2018, 01:59 PM
Rick Kitchen Rick Kitchen is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Citrus Heights, CA, USA
Posts: 14,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
Trump is one of the more pro-labor-union Republicans, and Obama probably no doubt supported labor unions.
Where is there evidence for Trump being pro-union?
  #12  
Old 04-24-2018, 02:06 PM
Buck Godot Buck Godot is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: MD outside DC
Posts: 4,650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buck Godot View Post
I imagine that the overlap of people who were enthusiastic Obama supporters but are no enthusiastic Trump supporters is pretty small.
Too late to edit, should be "were enthusiastic Obama supporters but are now enthusiastic Trump supporters"
  #13  
Old 04-24-2018, 02:09 PM
Velocity Velocity is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 11,205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
Where is there evidence for Trump being pro-union?

One of the paragraphs near the end of this article points out that Trump's approach was almost unprecedented for a modern Republican - going to labor union members and fighting on their behalf.
  #14  
Old 04-24-2018, 02:12 PM
Buck Godot Buck Godot is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: MD outside DC
Posts: 4,650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Kitchen View Post
Where is there evidence for Trump being pro-union?
No, Not so much.
  #15  
Old 04-24-2018, 02:19 PM
Stranger On A Train Stranger On A Train is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Manor Farm
Posts: 17,806
I’m betting on Obama for a TKO on Trump within ninety seconds of the first round. Definitely not worth the Pay-Per-View on ESPN+.

Stranger
  #16  
Old 04-24-2018, 02:26 PM
John Mace John Mace is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Bay
Posts: 83,051
Quote:
Originally Posted by blood63 View Post
From what I know about American politics, it is very polarized. You either like Obama and hate Trump or the other way around.
Personally, I liked Obama as a person. He seems to be a nice guy, very caring and smart. Mind you, that doesn't always make the best leader.
Trump seems like an absolutely detestable ass. But, I am willing to concede that his leadership skills, though very unconventional, might be effective long term.
Why, specifically, do you think that (emphasis added)?
  #17  
Old 04-24-2018, 02:38 PM
QuickSilver QuickSilver is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 17,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stranger On A Train View Post
Iím betting on Obama for a TKO on Trump within ninety seconds of the first round. Definitely not worth the Pay-Per-View on ESPN+.

Stranger
I'm betting it'll be a win for Obama by forfeit. Trump's too big a coward to step his fat orange ass into a ring.
__________________
St. QuickSilver: Patron Saint of Thermometers.
  #18  
Old 04-24-2018, 02:42 PM
XT XT is offline
Agnatheist
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The Great South West
Posts: 33,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by blood63 View Post
From what I know about American politics, it is very polarized. You either like Obama and hate Trump or the other way around.
Personally, I liked Obama as a person. He seems to be a nice guy, very caring and smart. Mind you, that doesn't always make the best leader.
Trump seems like an absolutely detestable ass. But, I am willing to concede that his leadership skills, though very unconventional, might be effective long term.
I wonder if there is any out there who likes both presidents or hates both of them.
I am interested in any opinions about who is the better president.
I definitely fit into the mold of liking Obama (voted for him twice) and detesting Trump (wouldn't vote for him if this was a North Korea style system). I didn't always agree with everything Obama did. He made plenty of mistakes, IMHO. But he was a very good president overall. Trump is an ass, and and ineffective and clueless one. To me, the few times he's done something right have been almost by accident...and they have been few enough to make the blind squirrels and acorns thing a reality.

As to who is the better president, it's hard to even see a comparison, to be honest.
__________________
-XT

That's what happens when you let rednecks play with anti-matter!
  #19  
Old 04-24-2018, 02:51 PM
Stranger On A Train Stranger On A Train is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Manor Farm
Posts: 17,806
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuickSilver View Post
I'm betting it'll be a win for Obama by forfeit. Trump's too big a coward to step his fat orange ass into a ring.
Does that mean that he forfeits the presidency? ‘Cause I’m perfectly happy to take odds on Obama vs. Pence, too.

Stranger

Last edited by Stranger On A Train; 04-24-2018 at 02:52 PM.
  #20  
Old 04-24-2018, 02:53 PM
Icarus Icarus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: In front of my PC, y tu?
Posts: 4,404
Well, there is a certain segment of Republicans who were and still are Never Trump-ers. Their numbers were, of course, larger during the primary campaign, but there are still a few knocking around. They would have been no fans of Obama during his administration.

Maybe "hates both" is too strong, but I think they qualify based on the OP.
__________________
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.
- C. Darwin
  #21  
Old 04-24-2018, 03:01 PM
XT XT is offline
Agnatheist
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The Great South West
Posts: 33,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icarus View Post
Well, there is a certain segment of Republicans who were and still are Never Trump-ers. Their numbers were, of course, larger during the primary campaign, but there are still a few knocking around. They would have been no fans of Obama during his administration.

Maybe "hates both" is too strong, but I think they qualify based on the OP.
I can't think of anyone who would be in the other group, i.e. love Obama and love Trump.
__________________
-XT

That's what happens when you let rednecks play with anti-matter!
  #22  
Old 04-24-2018, 03:05 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by blood63 View Post
... I wonder if there is any out there who likes both presidents or hates both of them.
...
"out there" there are certainly those people. There were a significant number of voters who voted for both Obama and Trump.

Quote:
... The study found that 9.2 percent of Obama voters flipped to support Mr. Trump — a hair lower than the estimates from other surveys. ...
source

However, the SDMB might not be the best forum for soliciting opinions from those people.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 04-24-2018 at 03:06 PM.
  #23  
Old 04-24-2018, 03:24 PM
Delicious Delicious is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 294
They both liked sending troops into Afghanistan
  #24  
Old 04-24-2018, 03:27 PM
jayjay jayjay is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 36,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
Trump's approach was almost unprecedented for a modern Republican - going to labor union members and fighting on their behalf.
But has he? Or is this more of the typical Trumpist declaration-as-proof?
  #25  
Old 04-24-2018, 03:57 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 23,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
One of the paragraphs near the end of this article points out that Trump's approach was almost unprecedented for a modern Republican - going to labor union members and fighting on their behalf.
I guess that depends on whether Reagan was a modern Republican. Clinton had a 6 point lead in union households over Trump; Carter had a 3 point lead in union households over Reagan. I guess the lesson is that union households rather like Republicans with a background in the entertainment industry.
  #26  
Old 04-24-2018, 04:04 PM
XT XT is offline
Agnatheist
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The Great South West
Posts: 33,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delicious View Post
They both liked sending troops into Afghanistan
I don't believe Obama 'liked' it so much as didn't have much choice. Hell, to give the devil his due, I doubt Trump likes it much either and if he could I'd say he'd pull US troops out of just about everywhere, since he clearly doesn't think the US should be spending resources on any foreign adventures and doesn't seem to know or care much about international politics or US foreign policy.
__________________
-XT

That's what happens when you let rednecks play with anti-matter!
  #27  
Old 04-24-2018, 04:18 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
... I guess the lesson is that union households rather like Republicans with a background in the entertainment industry.
President Kanye West?

ETA: additional info

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 04-24-2018 at 04:22 PM.
  #28  
Old 04-24-2018, 05:15 PM
blood63 blood63 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 461
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
Why, specifically, do you think that (emphasis added)?
He may bring manufacturing back to the US. He may get a deal with North Korea. If he is able to get similar minded politicians elected in November, he may get Washington passing legislation rather than being stagnant.
  #29  
Old 04-24-2018, 05:20 PM
Rick Kitchen Rick Kitchen is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Citrus Heights, CA, USA
Posts: 14,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
One of the paragraphs near the end of this article points out that Trump's approach was almost unprecedented for a modern Republican - going to labor union members and fighting on their behalf.
He's fighting for the rights of rich coal company owners. Not the employees. And definitely not unions.
  #30  
Old 04-24-2018, 05:25 PM
jayjay jayjay is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 36,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by blood63 View Post
He may bring manufacturing back to the US. He may get a deal with North Korea. If he is able to get similar minded politicians elected in November, he may get Washington passing legislation rather than being stagnant.
I'm sorry...am I miscounting the number of Republicans and Democrats in Congress? I was under the impression that the Republicans had a majority in both houses.
  #31  
Old 04-24-2018, 05:29 PM
OldGuy OldGuy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Very east of Foggybog, WI
Posts: 4,708
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
There have to be some folks who like both, or one or the other wouldn't have been able to get elected. I've never met any of them, though.
Of course not. As you and others have pointed Trump did not get a majority of the votes cast. In addition, only 62% of eligible voters voted in 2008 so Obama didn't get a majority of the votes he could have. Turnout was lower in 2012.
  #32  
Old 04-24-2018, 05:42 PM
Fear Itself Fear Itself is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Flavortown
Posts: 34,825
Quote:
Originally Posted by blood63 View Post
He may bring manufacturing back to the US.
Will those be union jobs, with union wages and union benefits?
Quote:
He may get a deal with North Korea.
Kim is going to hoodwink Trump so easily. No deal, more nukes.
Quote:
If he is able to get similar minded politicians elected in November, he may get Washington passing legislation rather than being stagnant.
Why is Washington stagnant?
  #33  
Old 04-24-2018, 05:46 PM
Lemur866 Lemur866 is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The Middle of Puget Sound
Posts: 21,605
Quote:
Originally Posted by blood63 View Post
He may bring manufacturing back to the US. He may get a deal with North Korea. If he is able to get similar minded politicians elected in November, he may get Washington passing legislation rather than being stagnant.
Insert witty retort containing "monkeys", "flying" and "my butt" here.

Dude, seriously. Trump's not going to get a deal with North Korea. You wanna know why? Because North Korea regards "deals" the same way Trump views deals. That is, a good way to get the other guy to do something for you, and then when your turn comes to do your part you stiff him. You can't make a deal with North Korea as the past 30 years of North Korean deals have shown. You can't make a deal with Donald Trump as the past 30 years of Donald Trump's life have shown.

He's going to bring back manufacturing? How's that going to work again? Tax cuts for the super-rich are fine and good, but how do they bring back manufacturing? Is it going to happen through tariffs? Trade wars are easy to win! And besides, manufacturing in the United States is bigger than it's ever been. It hasn't actually declined! We still make all kinds of manufactured goods here! What's declined is not manufacturing, but manufacturing JOBS. Factories in the US produce more goods than ever, but with a fraction of the employees they had in the 60s and 70s.

And the most laughable part, getting similar minded politicians elected in November so that he can get legislation passed for once. Dude, what party controls the House right now? What party controls the Senate? What party controls the White House? You think the Republicans are going to pick up more seats in the House in 2018? It's pretty likely they'll be able to keep hold over the Senate, but how are they going to hold the House? And if they, by some miracle, manage to hold the House, how is that different than April 24, 2018? You know, today?
  #34  
Old 04-24-2018, 07:01 PM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 28,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by blood63 View Post
He may bring manufacturing back to the US. He may get a deal with North Korea. If he is able to get similar minded politicians elected in November, he may get Washington passing legislation rather than being stagnant.
He may sprout wings and fly...
  #35  
Old 04-24-2018, 07:15 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 23,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Except that he has one attribute that will turn off a lot of Trump voters.
  #36  
Old 04-24-2018, 07:26 PM
Chronos Chronos is offline
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 76,438
Yes, Trump won a minority of the popular vote, but he still managed to flip states. Here in Ohio for instance, the majority supported Obama in 2008 and 2012, but Trump in 2016. And, yes, that's partly explained by who turned out, but not completely.
  #37  
Old 04-24-2018, 08:10 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjay View Post
I'm sorry...am I miscounting the number of Republicans and Democrats in Congress? I was under the impression that the Republicans had a majority in both houses.
You may not have noticed, but a majority is no longer sufficient to get most legislation through the Senate.
  #38  
Old 04-24-2018, 08:14 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
Except that he has one attribute that will turn off a lot of Trump voters.
I assume you mean race? I don't know how you'd define "a lot", but we've already discussed how something like 9% of Obama's voters are also Trump voters. I suspect the vast majority of Trump voters are thrilled with Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court, and in my Congressional district, Republicans enthusiastically support Mia Love. I suspect given the choice between Mia Love and Joe Biden for President, for example, that the vast majority of Republicans would choose Mia Love.
  #39  
Old 04-24-2018, 08:26 PM
running coach running coach is online now
Arms of Steel, Leg of Jello
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Riding my handcycle
Posts: 34,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
You may not have noticed, but a majority is no longer sufficient to get most legislation through the Senate.
Then Trump isn't very good at getting legislation that is acceptable to both sides.
  #40  
Old 04-24-2018, 08:50 PM
jayjay jayjay is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Central Pennsylvania
Posts: 36,533
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
You may not have noticed, but a majority is no longer sufficient to get most legislation through the Senate.
Goodness! I wonder what horrible people started THAT trend...
  #41  
Old 04-24-2018, 09:00 PM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morgenstern View Post
Leadership skills?
Conventional?
Stereotypical?

I'm not seeing that.

ETA, did you mean impulsive, irrational and immature?
I wasn't joking and I wasn't exaggerating. Trump is a totally stereotypical and conventional demagogue. His methods and his plans, domestically, are just like Hitler's were, domestically in Germany. His speeches are, too - lots of obvious asshole-ism, lots of noise, and calculated to only appeal to stupid people. Hitler was clearly a nicer guy than Trump, but Hitler's... ummm, his foreign policy was not as nuanced as Trump's. You got to hand it to Trump on that one - no annexing Mexico, yet.
  #42  
Old 04-24-2018, 11:43 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by jayjay View Post
Goodness! I wonder what horrible people started THAT trend...
Senators appears to be the correct answer.
  #43  
Old 04-24-2018, 11:46 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by running coach View Post
Then Trump isn't very good at getting legislation that is acceptable to both sides.
You think this is a problem unique to Trump? That HRC's proposals would have been sailing through Congress because they were so bi-partisan? Just like Obama's did?
  #44  
Old 04-25-2018, 12:04 AM
Kimstu Kimstu is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 20,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
You think this is a problem unique to Trump? That HRC's proposals would have been sailing through Congress because they were so bi-partisan? Just like Obama's did?
The problem in both cases is Republican extreme nuttery, not merely partisan politics. This isn't a "both sides do it" equivalence.

Gotta admit it's a cute argument, though: point to a bunch of Republican diehard obstructionists preventing governmental achievements on the one hand, and a Republican robber-baron administration trying to destroy governmental achievements on the other, and blame the resulting non-achievement on the nature of the executive rather than on the Republican nuttery.
  #45  
Old 04-25-2018, 12:50 AM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidwithanR View Post
... His methods and his plans, domestically, are just like Hitler's were, domestically in Germany. ...
I'm curious if there's more to this than a typical lib ranting. What, specifically, are the similarities you see?


Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidwithanR View Post
... His speeches are, too - lots of obvious asshole-ism, lots of noise, and calculated to only appeal to stupid people. ...
I don't claim claim any particular knowledge of Hitler's speeches. Could you, perhaps, point me to the one that you think most closely resembles a typical Trump speech?
  #46  
Old 04-25-2018, 01:03 AM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 9,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimstu View Post
The problem in both cases is Republican extreme nuttery, not merely partisan politics. This isn't a "both sides do it" equivalence.

Gotta admit it's a cute argument, though: point to a bunch of Republican diehard obstructionists preventing governmental achievements on the one hand, and a Republican robber-baron administration trying to destroy governmental achievements on the other, and blame the resulting non-achievement on the nature of the executive rather than on the Republican nuttery.
I think it's a cute argument, blaming Congress when Obama's the president and excusing Congress and blaming the President when Trump is in.

Obstructionism absolutely is a "both sides do it" equivalence.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 04-25-2018 at 01:03 AM.
  #47  
Old 04-25-2018, 01:39 AM
Alessan Alessan is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Tel Aviv
Posts: 22,903
When people say "both sides", they don't mean the executive branch vs. the legislative branch.
  #48  
Old 04-25-2018, 02:39 AM
Budget Player Cadet Budget Player Cadet is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,953
Quote:
Originally Posted by blood63 View Post
He may bring manufacturing back to the US. He may get a deal with North Korea. If he is able to get similar minded politicians elected in November, he may get Washington passing legislation rather than being stagnant.
Okay, now do you have any indication that any of this is actually likely to happen at any point in the near future?

Bringing manufacturing jobs back is borderline impossible, short of turning to draconian protectionism or banning automation (and you'd better pray he doesn't try that). These jobs are gone, and they aren't coming back.

Getting a deal with North Korea... Okay, why do you think Trump can pull that off? What makes you think that one of the most incompetent diplomats we've ever seen grace the white house, whose pronouncements make Bush's shoulder massage seem like tactful diplomacy, can make that work, when countless others have failed? This is wishful thinking, not realistic assessment.

And as for getting more like-minded politicians... Well, his party has a majority in both houses of congress and the supreme court, so I really am confused what you mean here. Do you mean like if republicans can get 75 votes in the senate and 9 seats on the supreme court, then maybe they can make enough of a coalition to get things done?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
You may not have noticed, but a majority is no longer sufficient to get most legislation through the Senate.
It would be enough for some legislation. Like the Obamacare repeal, which could have passed in reconciliation. But even then, despite the fact that the Republican party has literally used "repeal and replace Obamacare" as their political rallying cry for more than half a decade, they couldn't get it passed. Because it was, from start to finish, total bullshit.

...Seriously, it's not just a matter of "Democrats will filibuster everything the republicans do". The number of filibusters the dems have pushed in this congress is on track to be similar to the number republicans pushed under Obama, and nowhere near the record number in 2013-14. And most of those have to do with Trump's appointments, which I have a really hard time faulting the democrats for - most of these people have absolutely no fucking reason to be in the positions they're in (need we go over what's wrong with Betsy DeVos or Ben Carson again?).

So what's actually going on? Short answer: the republican majority can't get its shit together, because they have no idea how to actually fucking govern! The democrats are not responsible for the first government shutdown under a unified government. And it's not just me saying this - multiple republican congressmen have essentially said the same. Here's one right here:
"It’s almost like we’re serving in the minority right now. We just simply don’t know how to govern."
This was obvious to most of us for a while. Indeed, many republicans (I believe you and Bone are among them, but please correct me if I'm wrong) see that as a benefit, in large part because they don't trust the government to do things. But for god's sake, let's not pretend that it's anyone else's fault when it turns out that the party that advertised its inability to govern loud and clear turns out to be chronically incapable of actually fucking governing. If you wanted a functional government, you shouldn't have voted for the party that wants to drown the government in the bathtub.

Yeesh, now I remember why I've been spending less time here. Thinking about this kind of shit is just depressing. I'd rather just not. I've been looping a hypnotic file literally named "Mind Eraser" for a month now and I still can't figure out how to be wrong enough to get into the republican headspace.

Last edited by Budget Player Cadet; 04-25-2018 at 02:42 AM.
  #49  
Old 04-25-2018, 04:39 AM
Budget Player Cadet Budget Player Cadet is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,953
Oh, and if your case is "democrats are blocking the republican agenda", please keep two things in mind.

First, the democrats got substantially more votes than the republicans for senate, and Clinton received far more votes than Trump. (The GOP did get more votes in the house, but they still got disproportionately many seats.) So any claim to a mandate is not just wrong but completely insane.

And secondly, the republican agenda is not exactly a long list of bipartisan talking points. Instead, you've got the appointment of Neil Gorsuch into a seat that rightfully should have been filled by an Obama appointee, the repeal of the most noteworthy legislation of the last administration, incredibly hardline immigration reform, a tax cut bill that most of the country hated despite the fact they were getting a tax cut (seriously this doesn't fucking happen), the appointment of a long list of incompetent cronies to important positions, and more.

But all that's pretty thoroughly irrelevant given what I said above.
  #50  
Old 04-25-2018, 05:12 AM
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 28,847
Trump's incredible ineffectiveness in getting his preferred legislation has little to do with the Senate -- very little major legislation (historically little, IIRC) has gotten through the House, which only requires a simple majority. We can be thankful, at least, that not only is Trump a buffoon capable only of short-term thinking, but also the GOP House caucus is a nigh-ungovernable mess.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 04-25-2018 at 05:13 AM.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:21 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Publishers - interested in subscribing to the Straight Dope?
Write to: sdsubscriptions@chicagoreader.com.

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017