Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-09-2018, 02:26 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 27,551
Anybody bothered by the practice of calling ships SHEE?

I have a friend, some 10 years my senior, who is a competitive sailor and licensed captain. She sometimes invites me to go sailing with her, her clear intent being to demonstrate that she is fully four times as manly as I (as opposed to the three times as manly which I generally concede). In a recent conversation, the two of us were discussing her dreams of becoming a pirate queen in the presence of a third friend. When my sailor friend let's call her Joanna referred to her boat as "she", the other friend let's call her Lily objected. Lily, who is about 15 years my junior, and who has to my knowledge never been on a sailboat of any size, opined that the practice of using feminine pronouns to refer to boats & ships is both antiquated and sexist. Joanna laughed, said something insulting and funny to Lily which I will not attempt to replicate here, and ordered another round of drinks while saying she was too old to worry about shit like this.

So I thought I would start a thread about this issue. Is anyone bothered by the practice Lily objected to? If so, why exactly?
__________________
"Don't get emotional, T'Challa."

"I'm not emotional. I'm happy. All my enemies are in the same place."
  #2  
Old 06-09-2018, 02:40 PM
Ludovic Ludovic is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: America's Wing
Posts: 28,852
I've never seen anyone call a ship "Shee".
  #3  
Old 06-09-2018, 03:01 PM
Tim R. Mortiss's Avatar
Tim R. Mortiss Tim R. Mortiss is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Lincoln Park, Chicago
Posts: 6,733
A sailor friend of mine once told me that ships are "she" because they are expensive, high-maintenance, and always have a lot of men around them. I imagine that's a common jape among nautical types.

Personally, I don't find it offensive. It could as easily be interpreted as a compliment as it could a denigration. More easily, in fact.
  #4  
Old 06-09-2018, 03:03 PM
Lamoral Lamoral is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Fenario
Posts: 2,098
No, it is absolutely an honorific. Comes from the same British roots as referring to a country as "she." Your sailor friend was just breaking balls, it may be that sailors joke about the origin coming from that, but it's definitely NOT historical fact.
  #5  
Old 06-09-2018, 03:04 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 27,551
I dictated the OP on account of my legal blindness. Sometimes the iPhone's dictation does weird things. I listened to it and did not discover the extra E vet the algorithm mysteriously inserted, and as the misspelling and the proper word are homophones, I did not notice until Your Wisecrack cause me to go through the thread title letter by letter.

I will do everything possible to find a hapless hobbit, murder it, and have its eyes transplanted into my skull if that will make you feel any better.
__________________
"Don't get emotional, T'Challa."

"I'm not emotional. I'm happy. All my enemies are in the same place."
  #6  
Old 06-09-2018, 03:42 PM
Sunny Daze's Avatar
Sunny Daze Sunny Daze is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Bay Area Urban Sprawl
Posts: 11,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim R. Mortiss View Post
A sailor friend of mine once told me that ships are "she" because they are expensive, high-maintenance, and always have a lot of men around them. I imagine that's a common jape among nautical types.

Personally, I don't find it offensive. It could as easily be interpreted as a compliment as it could a denigration. More easily, in fact.
Ha, ha, hee, hee, hooo. Ha. Ah. Let me catch my breath. Wow. That was hysterical. Where do you get them.
  #7  
Old 06-09-2018, 03:53 PM
Nava Nava is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hey! I'm located! WOOOOW!
Posts: 39,737
In Spanish they're he if large, she if small. A lifeboat is a she, the large boat which carries it is a he. So long as our lifeboats aren't automatically expected to cook and clean and English ships aren't expected to pamper their male sailors, I'm fine with both.



Skald, darling, kindly refrain from murdering any hobbits. Well, unless you find one who can't cook despite being taller than knee-height to an adult hobbit. If such an aberration exists, I can lend you my cleaver.
  #8  
Old 06-09-2018, 04:22 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 27,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nava View Post

Skald, darling, kindly refrain from murdering any hobbits. Well, unless you find one who can't cook despite being taller than knee-height to an adult hobbit. If such an aberration exists, I can lend you my cleaver.
Beloved, my hatred of halflings is long standing. Everybody knows that it was I who murdered Lotho Sackville-Baggins and framed Wormtongue for it.

And as there were no meddling kids around, I totally got away with it. The only thing that bothers me is that pippin survived and went on to inspire musicals .
__________________
"Don't get emotional, T'Challa."

"I'm not emotional. I'm happy. All my enemies are in the same place."
  #9  
Old 06-09-2018, 04:34 PM
Delicious Delicious is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nava View Post
In Spanish they're he if large, she if small. A lifeboat is a she, the large boat which carries it is a he. So long as our lifeboats aren't automatically expected to cook and clean and English ships aren't expected to pamper their male sailors, I'm fine with both.



Skald, darling, kindly refrain from murdering any hobbits. Well, unless you find one who can't cook despite being taller than knee-height to an adult hobbit. If such an aberration exists, I can lend you my cleaver.
Isn't everything in Spanish a he or she though? Gendered objects in English seem to be limited to boats, which is kind of odd by itself...something to do with olde figureheads?
  #10  
Old 06-09-2018, 04:58 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 34,053
I’ve never been comfortable with referring to ships or nations or whatever else as “she.” It seems to incorporate a bundle of assumptions and privileges and prejudices together as well as very troubling parallels between human women and inanimate objects or concepts.
  #11  
Old 06-09-2018, 05:14 PM
TheChileanBlob's Avatar
TheChileanBlob TheChileanBlob is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,516
When I was getting my forklift certification, the guy teaching us said you should handle the controls like you handle a woman: gently but firmly. It was pretty inappropriate and one of the other women reported him and he was reprimanded.

I feel like calling a boat or a car "she" is like that. Like it's a beautiful and graceful thing that you possess and control. It's in poor taste and society should be catching on by now.
  #12  
Old 06-09-2018, 05:51 PM
BobBitchin' BobBitchin' is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: central Fl
Posts: 687
"She" seems right, given so many ships have girls names.

Hell when I was a kid "Subaru and Cadillac" we're tough for the littlest kids to pronounce, so the cars were named "snow white" for the Sub and "Goldie" for the Caddy...and Mom and Dad always called the cars she.

Ever since childhood, I've called my cars and bikes she. and I name my guitars after women I've known.
  #13  
Old 06-09-2018, 05:57 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 27,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChileanBlob View Post
When I was getting my forklift certification, the guy teaching us said you should handle the controls like you handle a woman: gently but firmly. It was pretty inappropriate and one of the other women reported him and he was reprimanded.

I feel like calling a boat or a car "she" is like that. Like it's a beautiful and graceful thing that you possess and control. It's in poor taste and society should be catching on by now.
So you would be offended by a 59-year-old woman, like the one mentioned in the OP, referring to her dream sailboat as she? If you were an apprentice on her boat, you would feel harassed by her choice of pronoun?
__________________
"Don't get emotional, T'Challa."

"I'm not emotional. I'm happy. All my enemies are in the same place."
  #14  
Old 06-09-2018, 06:01 PM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: So.Ark ?
Posts: 10,498
I don't know about boats, but my ride is a *he*. Mainly because he's an asshole and I am always trying to figure out his idiocy. And he forgets our anniversary. Every. Year.


( see how well that works???)
  #15  
Old 06-09-2018, 06:17 PM
TheChileanBlob's Avatar
TheChileanBlob TheChileanBlob is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
So you would be offended by a 59-year-old woman, like the one mentioned in the OP, referring to her dream sailboat as she? If you were an apprentice on her boat, you would feel harassed by her choice of pronoun?
I'm offended that while women are waking up to the pervasive sexism ingrained in our culture, some people want to pretend it doesn't exist and we are just boo-hooing about our hurt fee-fees like the irrational women you think we are.
  #16  
Old 06-09-2018, 07:00 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 27,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChileanBlob View Post
I'm offended that while women are waking up to the pervasive sexism ingrained in our culture, some people want to pretend it doesn't exist and we are just boo-hooing about our hurt fee-fees like the irrational women you think we are.
At no point have I called you or any other woman your rational. You are mistaken if you believe I am defending the practice. My intent in the post you responded to was to ask whether you would have been offended by Joanna's use of feminine pronouns to refer to the sailboats she races and would like to own, and whether you would have complained about her use of the term given her sex. I haven't given my opinion on whether ships & boats should be referred to by feminine pronouns. I have given an example of one woman who is offended by it and another who is not. I myself do not do so, partly because I don't spend time on boats & ships in the first place but mostly because I dislike personifying inanimate objects. I am forever arguing with other blind people because I refuse to call Siri "she". To me, Siri is nothing but a robot I often dislike, and definitely in it.
__________________
"Don't get emotional, T'Challa."

"I'm not emotional. I'm happy. All my enemies are in the same place."
  #17  
Old 06-09-2018, 07:08 PM
Penfeather's Avatar
Penfeather Penfeather is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,997
Is this another hypocthetila, or are you claiming these women are real?
  #18  
Old 06-09-2018, 07:16 PM
senoy senoy is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,243
It's difficult to say for certain, but likely ships are 'shes' because they are equated with mothers and wives. We know that at least as far back as the 14th century it was common to name a ship after wives, mothers and more rarely daughters. Naming them after goddesses was an even earlier tradition. Why is always conjecture, but since we still do it, we can just ask people that do why. The two reasons are as a tribute to the person and as superstition. Male names are considered fickle and dangerous, while female names are considered safe and protective. It doesn't seem unreasonable that our ancestors felt the same way. A ship named after Thor is asking for trouble and one named after Freya is pleading for succor.
  #19  
Old 06-09-2018, 07:19 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 27,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penfeather View Post
Is this another hypocthetila, or are you claiming these women are real?
I would ask what you find so unbelievable about the OP, but I have Smurfs to turn into gold. Or maybe to bake into a pie. It all depends on how many I can catch in the traps before Papa and Sassette figure out a way to rescue the rest of the village.
__________________
"Don't get emotional, T'Challa."

"I'm not emotional. I'm happy. All my enemies are in the same place."
  #20  
Old 06-09-2018, 07:23 PM
you with the face you with the face is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 11,878
“She” in reference to ships or countries strikes me as cringey for its pretensionness more than anything else.
  #21  
Old 06-09-2018, 07:52 PM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: So.Ark ?
Posts: 10,498
Being an old reference doesn't make it right.

Last edited by Beckdawrek; 06-09-2018 at 07:52 PM.
  #22  
Old 06-09-2018, 07:54 PM
kenobi 65's Avatar
kenobi 65 kenobi 65 is offline
Corellian Nerfherder
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Brookfield, IL
Posts: 12,866
As the practice undoubtedly dates from a time when ships were almost exclusive the property of men (and wives and mistresses were often similarly seen as property), I suspect that it'll slowly die out. As a guy, I probably can't really understand how much (or little) it bothers women, but I guess I'm not surprised to learn that it does bother some.

Personally, I prefer the Irish standard of referring to ships as Sidhe.

*ducks and runs*
  #23  
Old 06-09-2018, 08:29 PM
TheChileanBlob's Avatar
TheChileanBlob TheChileanBlob is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
At no point have I called you or any other woman your rational. You are mistaken if you believe I am defending the practice. My intent in the post you responded to was to ask whether you would have been offended by Joanna's use of feminine pronouns to refer to the sailboats she races and would like to own, and whether you would have complained about her use of the term given her sex. I haven't given my opinion on whether ships & boats should be referred to by feminine pronouns. I have given an example of one woman who is offended by it and another who is not. I myself do not do so, partly because I don't spend time on boats & ships in the first place but mostly because I dislike personifying inanimate objects. I am forever arguing with other blind people because I refuse to call Siri "she". To me, Siri is nothing but a robot I often dislike, and definitely in it.
I'm pretty sure everyone knows what your intent is.
  #24  
Old 06-09-2018, 08:41 PM
kayT kayT is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Austin
Posts: 4,887
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChileanBlob View Post
When I was getting my forklift certification, the guy teaching us said you should handle the controls like you handle a woman: gently but firmly. It was pretty inappropriate and one of the other women reported him and he was reprimanded.

I feel like calling a boat or a car "she" is like that. Like it's a beautiful and graceful thing that you possess and control. It's in poor taste and society should be catching on by now.
Don't you ever get tired of being offended by everything? I do; I've given it up. Life is a lot simpler now. People who call boats she are not offending me. And humor, like the forklift guy, does not offend me either. Humor. Remember that?
  #25  
Old 06-09-2018, 09:21 PM
expectopatronum's Avatar
expectopatronum expectopatronum is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tampa
Posts: 974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
I would ask what you find so unbelievable about the OP, but I have Smurfs to turn into gold. Or maybe to bake into a pie. It all depends on how many I can catch in the traps before Papa and Sassette figure out a way to rescue the rest of the village.
Yeah, that's not cute.
  #26  
Old 06-09-2018, 09:58 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 27,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChileanBlob View Post
I'm pretty sure everyone knows what your intent is.
I don't believe he have any idea what my motives are. You have an asked me. But I will pretend you did.

My motives were precisely what the OP implied. I had an amusing conversation with two friends who strongly disagreed about an issue. I relayed the substance of the conversation (making fun of myself in the process) and posed the question they were arguing about. I didn't relay my position in the argument because I wasn't really part of that part of the conversation. When pushed to it by you, I did say what I thought. If you believe you have some paranormal ability to read my thoughts, please demonstrate it by identifying my favorite Andrew Lloyd Webber musical.
__________________
"Don't get emotional, T'Challa."

"I'm not emotional. I'm happy. All my enemies are in the same place."
  #27  
Old 06-09-2018, 10:05 PM
expectopatronum's Avatar
expectopatronum expectopatronum is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tampa
Posts: 974
Probably Phantom.
  #28  
Old 06-09-2018, 11:08 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 27,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobBitchin' View Post
"She" seems right, given so many ships have girls names.

Hell when I was a kid "Subaru and Cadillac" we're tough for the littlest kids to pronounce, so the cars were named "snow white" for the Sub and "Goldie" for the Caddy...and Mom and Dad always called the cars she.

Ever since childhood, I've called my cars and bikes she. and I name my guitars after women I've known.

I was thinking about sea-vessels rather than cars, but you have reminded me of a car I once owned which my GF and I began calling Jesus because it mysteriously acquired a wound in its side.
__________________
"Don't get emotional, T'Challa."

"I'm not emotional. I'm happy. All my enemies are in the same place."
  #29  
Old 06-09-2018, 11:11 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 27,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by expectopatronum View Post
Yeah, that's not cute.
Who says I was trying to be cute? I will not rest until every Smurf in the world has died violently. ESPECIALLY Brainy. In fact, if it is at all possible, I will kill HIM at least four times.
__________________
"Don't get emotional, T'Challa."

"I'm not emotional. I'm happy. All my enemies are in the same place."
  #30  
Old 06-09-2018, 11:34 PM
Penfeather's Avatar
Penfeather Penfeather is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
I would ask what you find so unbelievable about the OP, but I have Smurfs to turn into gold..
Well, you're a grown man who writes like a 12 year old boy, so I suppose it makes sense that your protagonists are grown women who talk like 12 year old girls.

Last edited by Penfeather; 06-09-2018 at 11:35 PM.
  #31  
Old 06-09-2018, 11:39 PM
Dallas Jones Dallas Jones is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Orygun forest
Posts: 4,685
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
I don't believe he have any idea what my motives are. You have an asked me. But I will pretend you did.

My motives were precisely what the OP implied. I had an amusing conversation with two friends who strongly disagreed about an issue. I relayed the substance of the conversation (making fun of myself in the process) and posed the question they were arguing about. I didn't relay my position in the argument because I wasn't really part of that part of the conversation. When pushed to it by you, I did say what I thought. If you believe you have some paranormal ability to read my thoughts, please demonstrate it by identifying my favorite Andrew Lloyd Webber musical.

None of that happened.

You have issues with women that are becoming more apparent with every thread and every post that you make.

Now it is about naming boats with female names, really? That bothers you and your non-existent friends?


Popular culture is evolving, and although this board is way behind, it is evolving too. Your misogyny will be the end of you. Take a break.
  #32  
Old 06-09-2018, 11:52 PM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 27,551
I don't see how my repeated, and I do admit bigoted, threats against the Smurfs in general and brainy Smurf in particular exposes any misogyny. I would ask you to explain, but both handy and hefty have escaped from their cages and I must recapture them before the whole plan falls to pieces. I really need that gold.
__________________
"Don't get emotional, T'Challa."

"I'm not emotional. I'm happy. All my enemies are in the same place."
  #33  
Old 06-10-2018, 12:09 AM
Skald the Rhymer Skald the Rhymer is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 27,551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penfeather View Post
Well, you're a grown man who writes like a 12 year old boy, so I suppose it makes sense that your protagonists are grown women who talk like 12 year old girls.
So I ran your post through the semantic analyzer and it seems that you are trying to annoy me. Here is the flaw in your plan.

The Dope is not real.

My family is real. My job is real. My friends are real. My blindness is real. the dope is a collection of electrons where i go to when I am bored and don't have the kids because I like to play. Admittedly, I have been using it tonight to work on my cutting and pasting skills, which is fairly difficult using voiceover on the iPhone but I think I have mastered it. Not a small thing to me, so I am happy the dope has helped in that way.

But I'm not going to stress about anything here.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to go to bed, By which I mean I need to rampage through the Smurf Village so I can listen to all those disgusting little blue buggers scream in terror. I am a very bad man.
__________________
"Don't get emotional, T'Challa."

"I'm not emotional. I'm happy. All my enemies are in the same place."
  #34  
Old 06-10-2018, 12:29 AM
Nava Nava is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hey! I'm located! WOOOOW!
Posts: 39,737
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobBitchin' View Post
"She" seems right, given so many ships have girls names.
Are you sure it's not in part the other way 'round? Since it's a she anyway, "she" gets a feminine name. Spanish floating vehicles (and yes, Delicious, in Spanish everything has a grammatical gender - which transfers over to personalizations of objects) usually get feminine or neutral names if small but male or neuter if large.
__________________
Evidence gathered through the use of science is easily dismissed through the use of idiocy. - Czarcasm.

Last edited by Nava; 06-10-2018 at 12:34 AM.
  #35  
Old 06-10-2018, 12:49 AM
Penfeather's Avatar
Penfeather Penfeather is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
My blindness is real.
Yes, you keep mentioning it even when it hasn't been challenged.
  #36  
Old 06-10-2018, 01:00 AM
expectopatronum's Avatar
expectopatronum expectopatronum is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Tampa
Posts: 974
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
So I ran your post through the semantic analyzer and it seems that you are trying to annoy me. Here is the flaw in your plan.

The Dope is not real.

My family is real. My job is real. My friends are real. My blindness is real. the dope is a collection of electrons where i go to when I am bored and don't have the kids because I like to play.
The attention you get from your threads is certainly real, and you seem to crave it because you only participate in your own threads 99% of the time. You obviously get something out of your participation here.

You can't pretend the last month or so on the boards didn't happen. Making cutesy post comparing yourself to Gargamel isn't going to win you your reputation back.
  #37  
Old 06-10-2018, 01:05 AM
BobBitchin' BobBitchin' is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: central Fl
Posts: 687
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nava View Post
Are you sure it's not in part the other way 'round? Since it's a she anyway, "she" gets a feminine name. Spanish floating vehicles (and yes, Delicious, in Spanish everything has a grammatical gender - which transfers over to personalizations of objects) usually get feminine or neutral names if small but male or neuter if large.

I am definitely NOT sure. That is a good point.

I didn't know everything was gendered in Spanish.
  #38  
Old 06-10-2018, 01:06 AM
Jophiel's Avatar
Jophiel Jophiel is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Chicago suburbia
Posts: 18,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delicious View Post
Gendered objects in English seem to be limited to boats, which is kind of odd by itself...something to do with olde figureheads?
I've heard people refer to a bunch of other things as "she" although the practice probably comes from ships. But I wouldn't think "How's she coming along?" is strangely out of place for anything from cars to computers.
  #39  
Old 06-10-2018, 01:19 AM
zweisamkeit zweisamkeit is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: detroit, east-side
Posts: 4,441
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayT View Post
Don't you ever get tired of being offended by everything? I do; I've given it up. Life is a lot simpler now. People who call boats she are not offending me. And humor, like the forklift guy, does not offend me either. Humor. Remember that?
Yeah, we get it, kayT, you disagree with other women about sexism on the boards. But you sure give me the impression you actually are bothered/offended, just in the other direction.

Last edited by zweisamkeit; 06-10-2018 at 01:22 AM.
  #40  
Old 06-10-2018, 03:19 AM
Penfeather's Avatar
Penfeather Penfeather is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 3,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skald the Rhymer View Post
My family is real. My job is real. My friends are real. My blindness is real.
It's also pretty telling that your repeated response to criticism is to bring up your family and your disability: I'm not sure what the latter has to do with your conduct, but your immediate recourse when slighted to hiding behind the skirts of women, imagined or otherwise, is pretty contemptible given your very real disdain towards the women of this board.
  #41  
Old 06-10-2018, 04:10 AM
Broomstick's Avatar
Broomstick Broomstick is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NW Indiana
Posts: 27,188
In response to the question in the OP - no, it doesn't bother me that ships are "she" in English. There are about 10 bajillion things I worry about more. I suspect that the practice of referring to ships as "she" in English will slowly die out over time, but that's just a guess. It also doesn't surprise me that some people are offended.
  #42  
Old 06-10-2018, 04:34 AM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: So.Ark ?
Posts: 10,498
...sigh....this is just soooooooo depressing.
  #43  
Old 06-10-2018, 05:24 AM
Quartz Quartz is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Home of the haggis
Posts: 29,632
In Russia, boats and ships are 'he'. It's a quirk of language, nothing more.
  #44  
Old 06-10-2018, 07:55 AM
Asimovian's Avatar
Asimovian Asimovian is offline
The Zeroeth Mod
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 11,591
Moderator Note

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheChileanBlob View Post
I'm pretty sure everyone knows what your intent is.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penfeather View Post
Well, you're a grown man who writes like a 12 year old boy, so I suppose it makes sense that your protagonists are grown women who talk like 12 year old girls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by expectopatronum View Post
The attention you get from your threads is certainly real, and you seem to crave it because you only participate in your own threads 99% of the time. You obviously get something out of your participation here.

You can't pretend the last month or so on the boards didn't happen. Making cutesy post comparing yourself to Gargamel isn't going to win you your reputation back.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zweisamkeit View Post
Yeah, we get it, kayT, you disagree with other women about sexism on the boards. But you sure give me the impression you actually are bothered/offended, just in the other direction.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Penfeather View Post
It's also pretty telling that your repeated response to criticism is to bring up your family and your disability: I'm not sure what the latter has to do with your conduct, but your immediate recourse when slighted to hiding behind the skirts of women, imagined or otherwise, is pretty contemptible given your very real disdain towards the women of this board.
Everyone, knock off the hijacks and personal attacks. If you just want to go after another poster, take it to the Pit. If you truly are interested in discussing the broader issues some of you are raising, there is an ongoing ATMB thread where your input would be appreciated.

But none of that belongs in here.
  #45  
Old 06-10-2018, 09:30 AM
IvoryTowerDenizen's Avatar
IvoryTowerDenizen IvoryTowerDenizen is offline
Nope! I said stop!
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North Shore of LI
Posts: 19,170
Mod Hat On

These types of posts, commentary from the sidelines, are off topic and not helpful. Please refrain from doing so here and elsewhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
...sigh....this is just soooooooo depressing.
  #46  
Old 06-10-2018, 10:02 AM
Corry El Corry El is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nava View Post
Are you sure it's not in part the other way 'round? Since it's a she anyway, "she" gets a feminine name. Spanish floating vehicles (and yes, Delicious, in Spanish everything has a grammatical gender - which transfers over to personalizations of objects) usually get feminine or neutral names if small but male or neuter if large.
I think it's largely unrelated, at least from the 20th century. Some categories of US warships for example have long been named after notable past naval personnel. People selected for that honor until recently have always been men, so for example almost all USN destroyers since the type has existed in the USN near the turn of 19th/20th century have been 'she's' named after men. It's also not unusual among merchant ships. Ships on the US Great Lakes in particular are often named after past (almost always male) executives of steel and mining companies.
  #47  
Old 06-10-2018, 10:20 AM
Corry El Corry El is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,161
I'd add in general that in US culture (maybe English speaking world generally, to a lesser extent otherwise I think) language is more of a battleground over diverging views of the past. I think the US cultural divide now is more completely encompassed by 'US has been basically good' v 'US has been basically bad' than any other single difference. It's often called 'right' v 'left' which also has some accuracy but think bad/good is more the source of the real tribal hostility that has arisen.

One manifestation of 'we've been basically bad' side is thinking it's desirable or necessary to pick at other people's use of previous accepted words and speech conventions associated with the past, to hasten the transformation to a new and different society that wouldn't be bad. The 'we've been basically good' tribe reacts against that, and people in the middle often just find it annoying. Why exactly would it 'offend' a person that a long accepted trivial convention of speech is used? (for all I know calling a ship 'she' does genuinely offend some people perhaps, but it's not that readily understandable to me).

Last edited by Corry El; 06-10-2018 at 10:22 AM.
  #48  
Old 06-10-2018, 12:21 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 34,053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corry El View Post
I think the US cultural divide now is more completely encompassed by 'US has been basically good' v 'US has been basically bad' than any other single difference. It's often called 'right' v 'left'
This is not an accurate description of the left.
  #49  
Old 06-10-2018, 12:27 PM
Corry El Corry El is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acsenray View Post
This is not an accurate description of the left.
Sort of true. I think the divide itself is more 'US bad' v 'US good' than it is actually 'left' or 'right'. Therefore if one focuses on real left, according to their definition, it's possible they find that correlates significantly less than perfectly with 'US has been basically bad'. But one side of the cultural divide, descended from the '60's counter culture, definitely has past US (white, Euro centric, patriarchal, heteronormal etc) sins as a or the central issue (again not necessarily class warfare etc in traditional leftist terms, though sometimes that too), those sins to be expiated by transforming society. Which goes with picking at other people's use of past conventions of speech.

Last edited by Corry El; 06-10-2018 at 12:31 PM.
  #50  
Old 06-10-2018, 12:49 PM
Acsenray Acsenray is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 34,053
Quote:
Originally Posted by Corry El View Post
Sort of true.

No, not even sort of true.

Quote:
if one focuses on real left
Get that Scotsman in focus!

Last edited by Acsenray; 06-10-2018 at 12:50 PM.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:54 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017