Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-18-2018, 05:48 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,368
Trump wants a US space force

Separate but equal to Air Force

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/18/polit...rce/index.html

will the USSF sit at the back of the bus?
  #2  
Old 06-18-2018, 05:56 PM
Robot Arm Robot Arm is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Medford, MA
Posts: 23,092
Of course he wants it, but can he get the Martians to pay for it?
  #3  
Old 06-18-2018, 05:57 PM
Velocity Velocity is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12,765
Sounds like it will create a great deal of bureaucratic stovepiping. Better to still just let the USAF have the job to itself.
  #4  
Old 06-18-2018, 05:58 PM
Velocity Velocity is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 12,765
Although I must say that "U.S. Space Force Academy" is a mighty good-sounding school name - if such a branch ever gets its own military academy in the future.
  #5  
Old 06-18-2018, 06:02 PM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: So.Ark ?
Posts: 11,106
Agsin, he's wagging the dog. It's a smoke screen.
  #6  
Old 06-18-2018, 06:02 PM
MichaelEmouse MichaelEmouse is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,628
As long as he doesn't try to micromanage it (and he's not one for paying attention to details), it might actually be a good idea to have a space equivalent of SOCOM, if the people who are delegated to develop the idea and implement it do a good job. The "separate but equal" bit is hopefully just more of the same used-car salesman bluster.
  #7  
Old 06-18-2018, 06:10 PM
penultima thule penultima thule is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 2,643
Of course there's a pesky Outer Space Treaty, which bars the stationing of weapons of mass destruction in space.

Trump probably thinks such things are no more an impediment than NY planning ordinances.
  #8  
Old 06-18-2018, 06:12 PM
E-DUB's Avatar
E-DUB E-DUB is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,265
I hope they get cool capes, because that would be awesome.
  #9  
Old 06-18-2018, 06:12 PM
wevets wevets is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: hobgoblin of geographers
Posts: 4,267
Is there a good reason for an independent Space Force? Asking because I don't really know.

The Air Force has independence that makes a certain amount of sense rooted in the history of independent operations of strategic bombers in World War II - it was conducting a significant portion of the war pretty much without much support or interaction with the army or navy, even though it was technically part of the Army at the time. Even so, there are those who think giving the Air Force independent bureaucratic status was a mistake.

Would the Space Force do things at least as independently as the Air Force? Like with the creation of the Air Force, it sounds like existing units that manage reconnaissance, communications, satellite launches, etc. would be given new uniforms and a new bureaucratic identity. Unlike with the creation of the Air Force, there's no vast bomber fleets and bomber escort fighters that have a history of operating independently of the other military branches - instead, it seems like the Space Force would just be some small parts chopped off from the Air Force, not a huge new undertaking. Curious to see what other folks think, since I don't feel like I know enough about it to make a reasonable judgment.
  #10  
Old 06-18-2018, 06:22 PM
bobot's Avatar
bobot bobot is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chicago-ish
Posts: 6,810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
Separate but equal to Air Force

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/18/polit...rce/index.html

will the USSF sit at the back of the bus?
And if it were to ever be a true, real thing, it's the kind of thing you keep under your hat. This fucking doofus announces it to the world. But he's got a fucking doofus wall to finish, I mean start, first.
Fucking idiot.
  #11  
Old 06-18-2018, 06:50 PM
ElvisL1ves ElvisL1ves is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: The land of the mouse
Posts: 48,003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
Although I must say that "U.S. Space Force Academy" is a mighty good-sounding school name - if such a branch ever gets its own military academy in the future.
As long as it's built in San Francisco.
  #12  
Old 06-18-2018, 06:52 PM
Sunny Daze's Avatar
Sunny Daze Sunny Daze is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Bay Area Urban Sprawl
Posts: 11,307
Quote:
Originally Posted by wevets View Post
Is there a good reason for an independent Space Force? Asking because I don't really know.

The Air Force has independence that makes a certain amount of sense rooted in the history of independent operations of strategic bombers in World War II - it was conducting a significant portion of the war pretty much without much support or interaction with the army or navy, even though it was technically part of the Army at the time. Even so, there are those who think giving the Air Force independent bureaucratic status was a mistake.

Would the Space Force do things at least as independently as the Air Force? Like with the creation of the Air Force, it sounds like existing units that manage reconnaissance, communications, satellite launches, etc. would be given new uniforms and a new bureaucratic identity. Unlike with the creation of the Air Force, there's no vast bomber fleets and bomber escort fighters that have a history of operating independently of the other military branches - instead, it seems like the Space Force would just be some small parts chopped off from the Air Force, not a huge new undertaking. Curious to see what other folks think, since I don't feel like I know enough about it to make a reasonable judgment.
From what I understand, this is correct, although I could imagine assets from other branches as well. Additionally, the military has tried to discourage him from doing this. I'd be interested to know who put this bug up his butt. Maybe he just think it sounds cool.
  #13  
Old 06-18-2018, 07:39 PM
Bijou Drains Bijou Drains is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 8,368
to get into their new academy they will test your midi-chlorians.
  #14  
Old 06-18-2018, 07:42 PM
Musicat Musicat is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sturgeon Bay, WI USA
Posts: 20,742
What's the matter with using NASA for outer space? Oh, yeah, there's that pesky military aspect. Just what the world needs, bombs in space.
  #15  
Old 06-18-2018, 07:56 PM
MichaelEmouse MichaelEmouse is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by wevets View Post
Is there a good reason for an independent Space Force? Asking because I don't really know.
This is why I mentioned SOCOM, the special operations command which was created after Operation Eagle Claw, the bungled attempt to rescue hostages in Iran which was largely caused by insufficient planning & cooperation between services: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...ommand#History
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operat..._Claw#Analysis

It would probably be a bad idea to make a separate service out of it, just as it arguably was with the Air Force. A Joint Command dedicated to a set of tasks requiring specific skills, organization and technology could be good though. Even if you don't put any weapons in space, it's going to get interesting with space launches getting cheaper, electronics getting better & cheaper and the software/machine learning to fuse data from multiple sensors. Imagine the planet as a multispectral panopticon.
  #16  
Old 06-18-2018, 08:00 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 24,768
The Department of Defense spends about 3 times more on information technology than it does on space.

Maybe we need a Windows 10 Corps, too.
  #17  
Old 06-18-2018, 08:06 PM
John Mace's Avatar
John Mace John Mace is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: South Bay
Posts: 85,197
We'll definitely need a Space Academy for all the Space Cadets.
  #18  
Old 06-18-2018, 08:08 PM
jasg jasg is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Upper left hand corner
Posts: 5,591
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElvisL1ves View Post
As long as it's built in San Francisco.
Did the government sell or lease out the Presidio? They may already have the land.
__________________
It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
~ Jonathan Swift (1667 - 1745)
  #19  
Old 06-18-2018, 08:12 PM
jasg jasg is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Upper left hand corner
Posts: 5,591
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasg View Post
Did the government sell or lease out the Presidio? They may already have the land.
Never mind. It is part of the National Park System. Like Bears Ears, easy to reclaim.
__________________
It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
~ Jonathan Swift (1667 - 1745)
  #20  
Old 06-18-2018, 08:19 PM
Ethilrist Ethilrist is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Saint Paul
Posts: 26,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by wevets View Post
Is there a good reason for an independent Space Force? Asking because I don't really know.
To prevent people who don't want or don't qualify for military service from participating in the space program.

Oh, wait.

That's not a good reason.
  #21  
Old 06-18-2018, 08:43 PM
Chronos's Avatar
Chronos Chronos is offline
Charter Member
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: The Land of Cleves
Posts: 80,122
Y'know, a Cyberspace Force might actually make some sense, now that you mention it, Ravenman. The Internet has actually been used as a battlefield, and that's just going to get more common as time goes on. And it's a fundamentally different skill set than what forms the basis of the other services.
  #22  
Old 06-18-2018, 08:50 PM
blondebear blondebear is offline
Shouting Grasshopper
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Meridian/280
Posts: 13,573
With apologies to Brian May*, I have a suggestion for the official Space Force song:

Send a message out across the sky
Alien raiders just passed Gemini
Who will come and save us now?
Who can defend us from the power?

Space Force, Space Force
Space Force, Space Force

Tell the people back at Earth control
Send Space Force legions to save our souls
Always daring and courageous
Ooh Only they can save us...


*Brian's song is actually called Star Fleet. But as they say, it's close enough for government work

Last edited by blondebear; 06-18-2018 at 08:55 PM.
  #23  
Old 06-18-2018, 08:52 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 24,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Y'know, a Cyberspace Force might actually make some sense, now that you mention it, Ravenman. The Internet has actually been used as a battlefield, and that's just going to get more common as time goes on. And it's a fundamentally different skill set than what forms the basis of the other services.
Well, then we should probably start a new service for naval aviation, seeing how thatís a fundamentally different skill set than what sailors practice.
  #24  
Old 06-18-2018, 10:08 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
2018 Midterm Prediction Winner
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 20,724
This reminds me of a twitter quote I saw.

"President Trump has sex with porn stars and wants to create space marines and I still hate him"
__________________
Sometimes I doubt your commitment to sparkle motion
  #25  
Old 06-18-2018, 10:34 PM
digs's Avatar
digs digs is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: West of Wauwatosa
Posts: 8,725
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelEmouse View Post
As long as he doesn't try to micromanage it (and he's not one for paying attention to details), it might actually be a good idea to have a space equivalent of SOCOM...
You just knows Trump's thinking space fighter ships (X-wings, or more appropriately TIE fighters). With lasers. That go PEW PEW!

2020s-Style Death Rays.
  #26  
Old 06-18-2018, 10:45 PM
not what you'd expect not what you'd expect is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,538
The troops would be housed at Trump Hotels and trained by Trump Universities.

Ivanka would be in charge of the uniforms.

Well, I just figure making him some money has to factor in somehow.
  #27  
Old 06-18-2018, 11:01 PM
jasg jasg is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Upper left hand corner
Posts: 5,591
Does he realize that the only current way into space is on board Russian spacecraft?

Oh, wait...
__________________
It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into.
~ Jonathan Swift (1667 - 1745)
  #28  
Old 06-19-2018, 01:20 AM
asterion asterion is offline
2012 SDMB NFL Salary Cap Champ
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 11,536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny Daze View Post
From what I understand, this is correct, although I could imagine assets from other branches as well. Additionally, the military has tried to discourage him from doing this. I'd be interested to know who put this bug up his butt. Maybe he just think it sounds cool.
I'm thinking he's flailing for a distraction. The only thing he's got going for him personally at the moment is that the outrage over the children is sucking up all the attention from Manafort and Cohen. So now he needs a new distraction to get rid of the coverage of the border.
  #29  
Old 06-19-2018, 02:15 AM
elucidator elucidator is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Further
Posts: 59,286
"...so, anyway, the new Trump Space Atomic Engine will get us to Mars in a couple weeks! Then what? Well, we put on the space brakes!

Delta-V? Yeah, I know what that is, its where you grab 'em! What's that got to do with space stuff?...."
  #30  
Old 06-19-2018, 02:28 AM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasg View Post
Does he realize that the only current way into space is on board Russian spacecraft?

Oh, wait...
Nitpick: the Russians have the only current way to the ISS (for a few more months at least - both SpaceX and Boeing are expected to launch manned test flights of their respective capsules later this year or early next year), but not the only way "into space". The Chinese have been putting people into orbit for the last 15 years. On the horizon, there's also Blue Origin's New Shepard program and Virgin Galactic's VSS Unity which are undergoing tests and should be capable of carrying people "into space" albeit at suborbital velocity.
  #31  
Old 06-19-2018, 04:18 AM
elucidator elucidator is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Further
Posts: 59,286
Lucky for the Martians, they don't exist.
  #32  
Old 06-19-2018, 04:30 AM
cochrane cochrane is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The Nekkid Pueblo
Posts: 20,944
Quote:
Originally Posted by elucidator View Post
Lucky for the Martians, they don't exist.
That makes me very angry. Very angry, indeed.
  #33  
Old 06-19-2018, 04:44 AM
Locrian Locrian is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Valley Village, CA
Posts: 3,986
Wait! I figured it out! Not weapons, but wall-erecting lasers-- from space-- will erect the wall on southern border and he will only hire Mexicans to fire the laser before deporting them. That's gotta be it. "The Latino kids can play with my son, um... Barron! And his cheap *Obama-given rocking horse and won't be deported until laser-space-wall is complete!"


*Yeah, I know it was given to Prince Georgie, but he'll get that wrong too.

Last edited by Locrian; 06-19-2018 at 04:45 AM.
  #34  
Old 06-19-2018, 04:54 AM
Quartz's Avatar
Quartz Quartz is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Home of the haggis
Posts: 29,844
Is he trying to do to China what Reagan did to the Soviet Union with Star Wars? Because he'll fail.
  #35  
Old 06-19-2018, 05:36 AM
Kobal2's Avatar
Kobal2 Kobal2 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 17,234
It figures. He sees himself as the God-Emperor of a neo-fascist USkind and he's already got Commissarsflunkies purging heresyDemocrats from the ranks of the Adeptus Administratorumvarious state departments, it's only natural that he'd want to found Legions of Space Marines next.

I gotta say though, Jeff Sessions makes for a very poor Horus. I mean he's got the Chaos part right, but you just can't picture him and a pair of Lightning Claws in the same room, can you ?
__________________
--- ---
I'm not sure how to respond to this, but that's never stopped me before.

Last edited by Kobal2; 06-19-2018 at 05:37 AM.
  #36  
Old 06-19-2018, 05:43 AM
BobLibDem BobLibDem is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Home 07 NCAA HockeyChamps
Posts: 20,712
As the nation's leading space cadet, I can see Donald doing this. I understand his highest priority is development of the Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator.
  #37  
Old 06-19-2018, 06:26 AM
Quartz's Avatar
Quartz Quartz is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Home of the haggis
Posts: 29,844
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobLibDem View Post
As the nation's leading space cadet, I can see Donald doing this. I understand his highest priority is development of the Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator.
That revelation is dynamite!
  #38  
Old 06-19-2018, 06:47 AM
MichaelEmouse MichaelEmouse is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 6,628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
Well, then we should probably start a new service for naval aviation, seeing how thatís a fundamentally different skill set than what sailors practice.
The question of what should be an independent service branch is an interesting one. I'm not sure about it myself but I'm interested in what criteria you think should be used to determine the type and number of service branches if you were starting from scratch.
  #39  
Old 06-19-2018, 08:30 AM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 24,768
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelEmouse View Post
The question of what should be an independent service branch is an interesting one. I'm not sure about it myself but I'm interested in what criteria you think should be used to determine the type and number of service branches if you were starting from scratch.
The bar should be high. Much higher than "an incompetent President wanted to make some news one day so announced a decision he has no authority to make and for which he doesn't show the slightest understanding of the issues."
  #40  
Old 06-19-2018, 10:56 AM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm Czarcasm is offline
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 58,486
Space Force? Really?

Trump wants to create a brand new branch of the armed services-the "Space Force". He says it will be "separate but equal" from the U.S. Air Force, which suggests two things:
1. At least part of the funding will be ripped from the U.S.A.F., and
2. Nobody with a knowledge of history is proofreading his speeches-will they have separate water fountains, and will the U.S.A.F. now have to enter the Pentagon via the servant's entrance?

NASA doesn't have the budget for a trip to the grocery store, so I wonder how much of what they are now allotted will be diverted to this new project. Is this a project that is needed at this time? Are we in a position economically that makes this feasible?

Last edited by Czarcasm; 06-19-2018 at 10:56 AM.
  #41  
Old 06-19-2018, 10:58 AM
Snowboarder Bo's Avatar
Snowboarder Bo Snowboarder Bo is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 24,323
Or that he has a plan at all beyond "I'm gonna open my mouth and say words".
  #42  
Old 06-19-2018, 11:06 AM
manson1972's Avatar
manson1972 manson1972 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 9,245
We have to do something with all that money that is rolling in from the tax cuts. What do you want to do, spend it on poor people?
  #43  
Old 06-19-2018, 11:12 AM
wolfpup's Avatar
wolfpup wolfpup is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 9,478
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobLibDem View Post
As the nation's leading space cadet, I can see Donald doing this. I understand his highest priority is development of the Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator.
You beat me to it! This guy would be perfect as the chairman and the leading mind of Trump's Joint Chiefs of Staff!
  #44  
Old 06-19-2018, 11:17 AM
iiandyiiii's Avatar
iiandyiiii iiandyiiii is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 31,621
As long as they wear space pants, I'm all for it.
  #45  
Old 06-19-2018, 12:02 PM
XT's Avatar
XT XT is offline
Agnatheist
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: The Great South West
Posts: 34,168
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Trump wants to create a brand new branch of the armed services-the "Space Force". He says it will be "separate but equal" from the U.S. Air Force, which suggests two things:
1. At least part of the funding will be ripped from the U.S.A.F., and
2. Nobody with a knowledge of history is proofreading his speeches-will they have separate water fountains, and will the U.S.A.F. now have to enter the Pentagon via the servant's entrance?

NASA doesn't have the budget for a trip to the grocery store, so I wonder how much of what they are now allotted will be diverted to this new project. Is this a project that is needed at this time? Are we in a position economically that makes this feasible?
One wonders where the money will come from. Assuming Trump doesn't plan to gut the Air Force's budget but instead plans to have a new agency with a roughly similar budget, that would mean this new Space Force would have an annual budget of roughly $150 billion...an order of magnitude more than NASA has. It's hard to imagine what the US could do in space with an agency funded to that level annually.
__________________
-XT

That's what happens when you let rednecks play with anti-matter!
  #46  
Old 06-19-2018, 12:06 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm Czarcasm is offline
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 58,486
Repel the Space-Mexicans hiding on the dark side of the moon?
  #47  
Old 06-19-2018, 12:13 PM
Profound Gibberish Profound Gibberish is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 309
You Gotta Fight
For Your Right
For Pew Pew Guns and Tights

*************************

A sixth branch of the military requires congressional authorization. Even the most senior political and governmental officials are publicly stating it is a ridiculous idea. Ain't gonna happen.
  #48  
Old 06-19-2018, 12:14 PM
Whack-a-Mole's Avatar
Whack-a-Mole Whack-a-Mole is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 20,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Repel the Space-Mexicans hiding on the dark side of the moon?
Duh!

Where else would you suppose illegal aliens come from?

We need a space wall like the shield in Spaceballs.

Last edited by Whack-a-Mole; 06-19-2018 at 12:15 PM.
  #49  
Old 06-19-2018, 12:14 PM
TriPolar TriPolar is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: rhode island
Posts: 39,321
He needs to force something into the space between his ears.
  #50  
Old 06-19-2018, 12:17 PM
Czarcasm's Avatar
Czarcasm Czarcasm is offline
Charter Member
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 58,486
Doesn't anyone think this is a great idea?
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:15 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright © 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017