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Old 07-12-2018, 11:15 AM
Blalron Blalron is offline
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Sex robots for Incels?

Will sex robots mitigate the problem of involuntary celibacy?

If you are an Incel, you have a few choices to deal with your plight:

1. Fall into despair. Post misogynistic messages online about how unfair life is, and how women owe you sex. Needless to say, this is not a very constructive solution to that problem.

2. You could try to make yourself more attractive and put yourself out there into the dating market. Pay attention to your grooming, personal hygiene, clothing, etc. This is a worthwhile path to pursue for most, but it won't guarantee success for everyone. Some people just drew the short end of the stick in the great cosmic lottery of attractiveness. I'm not just talking about physical attractiveness either. For example, someone with Autism Spectrum Disorder may simply not have a very charismatic personality that is likely to attract a romantic partner.

3. Prostitution. It's illegal in most jurisdictions. Even where it is legal, it could be prohibitively expensive for the Incel.

This leads me to the fourth option:

4. Sex Robots/Dolls. It has the downside of a higher initial cost on investment, but I'm sure in the long run a sex robot would be cheaper than hiring a prostitute to stop by once or twice a week. I think the government should pay for sex robots to ease the suffering of Involuntary Celibates.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:19 AM
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Will sex robots mitigate the problem of involuntary celibacy?
In my opinion, having an orgasm is not what Incels need. Having respect for and connections to others is. I don't see how a robot helps.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:21 AM
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A shotgun and a bottle of Jack Daniels wouldn't be too expensive.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:27 AM
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I don't think that comment is very funny given that we have incels actually shooting people, on a frighteningly regular basis. And I don't like the idea of anyone shooting themselves, no matter how fucked up they may be. Or drowning their sorrows with alcohol, for that matter, which is a disturbingly common way to deal with personal issues.

Sex robots wouldn't help these guys. Even if they magically had actual live female sex slaves who were somehow engineered to love the incels and be their devoted companions, they would still be fucked up.

The only thing they need is serious cognitive behavioral therapy and/or the right combination of medication. This is the answer to a great deal of issues that destroy peoples' lives. Unfortunately, America's healthcare system makes it very difficult for many of them to obtain it.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:39 AM
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The only thing they need is serious cognitive behavioral therapy and/or the right combination of medication. This is the answer to a great deal of issues that destroy peoples' lives. Unfortunately, America's healthcare system makes it very difficult for many of them to obtain it.
I'm a bit confused by this, I mean is not getting laid a psychological disorder, or do you mean people that are a part of this "movement", if that it what it is, automatically need psychological intervention just by virtue of being a member?
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:51 AM
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Everything I've read about the issue suggests there is a large underlying psychological issue at work here with these guys, that goes far beyond just the inability to get laid.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:56 AM
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5. Masturbation. Which, arguably, would be what sex with a "sex robot" is.

But, as others have said, that doesn't address the real problem. I'm not sure exactly what the real problem is, but I am pretty sure it's not lack of orgasms.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:07 PM
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I think that you are overlooking greater risks.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:20 PM
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I don't think that comment is very funny given that we have incels actually shooting people, on a frighteningly regular basis.
'Frighteningly regular basis'? Not to downplay horror but wiki lists only five confirmed or suspected attacks.

Let's not let media coverage distort the size of the problem. Is there a definitive list somewhere we could look at?
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:24 PM
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Telling someone who wants real, live, genuine human companionship and sex to get a sex robot is like telling a childless couple to buy a few dolls.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:26 PM
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'Frighteningly regular basis'? Not to downplay horror but wiki lists only five confirmed or suspected attacks.

Let's not let media coverage distort the size of the problem. Is there a definitive list somewhere we could look at?
Does that include the warped entitled guys who kill women after stalking them or when they won't go out with them, but don't go on mass shooting sprees or self identify as incels? Cause I suspect the number is, in fact, far higher if you were to start including those yahoos. And I don't think the differentiation in their mental state is significant.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:26 PM
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I'm a bit confused by this, I mean is not getting laid a psychological disorder, or do you mean people that are a part of this "movement", if that it what it is, automatically need psychological intervention just by virtue of being a member?
The latter. "Incel" is a term that implies a whole lot more than "suffering from a dry spell". It's an entire philosophy held by a deeply disturbed, misanthropic online community who thinks the world owes them hot young women to have sex with, and who wish to do violence upon the women who choose not to and the men who are more successful than they are. Elliot Rodger and Nikolas Cruz are some of the more well-known members of this community.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:27 PM
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Incels aren't simply sexually frustrated. They are socially and emotionally disordered people who lack the ability or work ethic to form meaningful relationships and harbor a lot of resentul over their loser status. Market sex robots to these guys and expect to see sex robots become yet another marker of loserdom that the prototypical Incel rejects.

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Old 07-12-2018, 12:33 PM
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6. Lower your standards and date in your league. I know because of hypergamy and the 80/20 rule this may not be an effective solution, but quite a few incels want women out of their league from what I've seen.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:34 PM
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Telling someone who wants real, live, genuine human companionship and sex to get a sex robot is like telling a childless couple to buy a few dolls.
I am not sure that self-identified Incels do want actual human companionship at this point, but I think it's what they need, whether they understand that or not.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:36 PM
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Incels aren't simply sexually frustrated. They are socially and emotionally disordered people who lack the ability or work ethic to form meaningful relationships and harbor a lot of resentul over their loser status. Market sex robots to these guys and expect to see sex robots become yet another marker of loserdom that the prototypical Incel rejects.

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Yup. The real cure for inceldom is self acceptance. Most men aren't particularly attractive, and quite a few are below average mentally and physically, and have very few options because of it.

That won't cure being incel, but it'll mitigate the worst aspects of it (rage and resentment).
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:38 PM
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Despite what they think, the "involuntary celibacy" is not their major problem, it's their total lack of self esteem and the crippling weight of their massive sense of entitlement and narcissism. They don't just have a problem with women, they have a problem relating to EVERYBODY.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:43 PM
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Their problem is that they're, to put it bluntly, assholes. Their lack of sexual activity is a symptom, not a cause, of this problem. Getting them sex, or a reasonable facsimile thereof, will not solve the underlying problem.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:43 PM
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Yup. The real cure for inceldom is self acceptance. Most men aren't particularly attractive, and quite a few are below average mentally and physically, and have very few options because of it.
There is absolutely nothing stopping a man from developing his body into one that would be considered attractive, and unless you're the Elephant Man, a little bit of good grooming and accessorizing can go a long way to improving the elements of the physical appearance that don't involve the physique.

You don't need to "accept" that fact that you have a substandard appearance, you should improve it, which is not difficult to do.

A man's character is more important than his appearance anyway, when it comes to attracting women, but that takes far more effort to improve than the body.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:55 PM
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Yup. The real cure for inceldom is self acceptance. Most men aren't particularly attractive, and quite a few are below average mentally and physically, and have very few options because of it.

That won't cure being incel, but it'll mitigate the worst aspects of it (rage and resentment).
There's nothing at all stopping these guys from going out and hiring a hooker or three, but that's not the answer to their problems, and offering a mechanical alternative would probably be even less welcome.

But I also don't necessarily think these guys need to just accept that they're ugly, awkward and weird, and that they will probably be mostly celibate. What they need to do is accept the first three, and realize that as a result, they're not likely to score with the Bella Hadids of the world, and that the weird chubby girl at the coffee shop is probably a much more reasonable target for them to shoot for.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:01 PM
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But I also don't necessarily think these guys need to just accept that they're ugly, awkward and weird, and that they will probably be mostly celibate. What they need to do is accept the first three
Why would anyone want to go through life with this kind of defeatist attitude?
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:10 PM
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Their problem is that they're, to put it bluntly, assholes. Their lack of sexual activity is a symptom, not a cause, of this problem. Getting them sex, or a reasonable facsimile thereof, will not solve the underlying problem.
When I use the term "Incel", I'm talking about the original meaning of the term before it got hijacked by extremists: someone who who wants to have a sexual relationship but is unable to find a romantic partner despite repeated attempts. I'm not talking about the hateful ideology/mental illness displayed by Elliot Rodger and a handful of others.

Incel is a useful concept. Maybe this is a losing battle on my part, but I don't want to let Elliot Rodger or Nikolas Cruz define what an Incel is, anymore than ISIS gets to define Islam.

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Old 07-12-2018, 01:10 PM
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....the weird chubby girl at the coffee shop is probably a much more reasonable target for them to shoot for.
Dude, the weird chubby girl at the coffee shop will steal your soul with Airwolf grade moves in bed.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:17 PM
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When I use the term "Incel", I'm talking about the original meaning of the term before it got hijacked by extremists: someone who who wants to have a sexual relationship but is unable to find a romantic partner despite repeated attempts. I'm not talking about the hateful ideology/mental illness displayed by Elliot Rodger and a handful of others.

Incel is a useful concept. Maybe this is a losing battle on my part, but I don't want to let Elliot Rodger or Nikolas Cruz define what an Incel is, anymore than ISIS gets to define Islam.
Even the original creator of the word (a woman talking about anyone who isn't having sex and would like to) has ceded it - so I think its time to let it go.

Would sex robots help those that want to have sex but don't have a partner? I sort of doubt it because if your hand isn't doing it for you - or any of the other solo sex toys on the market - there really isn't a reason to say that a more expensive toy will. Its like thinking if you only had a Mac Book Pro you'd write a novel - but you haven't written the novel with pen and paper or your current desktop or the chromebook you have.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:25 PM
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When I use the term "Incel", I'm talking about the original meaning of the term before it got hijacked by extremists: someone who who wants to have a sexual relationship but is unable to find a romantic partner despite repeated attempts. I'm not talking about the hateful ideology/mental illness displayed by Elliot Rodger and a handful of others.

Incel is a useful concept. Maybe this is a losing battle on my part, but I don't want to let Elliot Rodger or Nikolas Cruz define what an Incel is, anymore than ISIS gets to define Islam.
The term "incel" is inherently problematic. "Involuntary celibate". Hmm, as a person who's never been on the internet or read the news before, what does that mean? Well, involuntary anything is generally a bad thing; it emphasizes a loss of control of something that one normally controls. And what's this 'celibacy' business? Isn't that a monk thing? Like an entire lifestyle? How does a person find themselves forced against their will into a lifestyle? Are they slaves or something?

Speaking as a male who is single, wishes he wasn't, and believes that I'm doomed to this fate no matter what I do - I would never describe myself as an involuntary celibate, even if the term hadn't been deliberately poisoned. Because the term is inherently poisoned. It's accusatory. And thanks but no thanks; I'm doomed to die alone, but it's due to my inadequacies, not some sort of female plot!

So yeah, don't bother trying to 'reclaim' that word. It was never decent to start with.

Last edited by begbert2; 07-12-2018 at 01:26 PM. Reason: I assumed wrong.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:31 PM
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Would sex robots help those that want to have sex but don't have a partner? I sort of doubt it because if your hand isn't doing it for you - or any of the other solo sex toys on the market - there really isn't a reason to say that a more expensive toy will.
I believe in the near future that we will have the technology for sex robots to be realistic enough that they will provide a reasonable facsimile for a sexual encounter with a human being. If this is the case, it will be a qualitative step up from toys like the Fleshlight.

Speaking as a male who seems to be perpetually single (don't know what else to call myself since the Incel battle seems to be lost), I don't just want a hole to provide lubricated friction for my genitals. I actually do enjoy other things like cuddling. I can't cuddle with a Fleshlight. But I could cuddle with a RealDoll.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:35 PM
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So yeah, don't bother trying to 'reclaim' that word. It was never decent to start with.
What word should we use then? This is a real issue that real people face. I think we should be able to talk about it without being lumped in with Elliot Rodger.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:37 PM
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Incels have always been around. They were the subject of countless teen movies in the 1980s.

They don't need sex: they need to break out of their toxic circlejerk paradigm and become better human beings capable of having a conversation.
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Old 07-12-2018, 01:42 PM
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What word should we use then? This is a real issue that real people face. I think we should be able to talk about it without being lumped in with Elliot Rodger.
How about "unhappily unattached"?

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Old 07-12-2018, 01:45 PM
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Yup. The real cure for inceldom is self acceptance. Most men aren't particularly attractive, and quite a few are below average mentally and physically, and have very few options because of it.

That won't cure being incel, but it'll mitigate the worst aspects of it (rage and resentment).
There are many men below average, and also many women. So the men have plenty of options, if they accepted reality.
The problem isn't lack of companionship, since plenty of people are okay with that, but dissatisfaction with lack of companionship and the unwillingness to do anything practical about it. The mismatch between perception and reality is where therapy could help. Or a good yente.

And yeah, robots won't help a bit.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:02 PM
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What word should we use then? This is a real issue that real people face. I think we should be able to talk about it without being lumped in with Elliot Rodger.
Single.

The baseline problem that spawns incels isn't that they're not having sex. It's that they're not satisfied with their romantic prospects. They claim that the issue is one of sex because it seems like such a small thing to ask to them - just a simple lay! Is that so much to ask? Jeez, don't be so frigid!

Of course once you soak a single person in an incel forum long enough they'll get twisted up and start claiming all sorts of wild things about their situation, but if you're talking about people who haven't taken the poison pill yet? Single.

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Old 07-12-2018, 02:12 PM
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Incels celebacy is purely voluntary.

It's their decision to behave in a way that turns women away. It's their decision to think the only women worthy of their attention are supermodels. It's their decision to think of women as fleshlights with breasts.

There's nothing involuntary about it.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:18 PM
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Speaking as a male who seems to be perpetually single (don't know what else to call myself since the Incel battle seems to be lost), I don't just want a hole to provide lubricated friction for my genitals. I actually do enjoy other things like cuddling. I can't cuddle with a Fleshlight. But I could cuddle with a RealDoll.
The hunger for touch and physical affection is, legitimately, a big problem for those who are... whatever-you-want-to-call-it. Especially in a society like ours, which has few opportunities for socially acceptable physical human contact with people you're not already intimate with.

But I don't think a sex doll, no matter how realistic, would really satisfy that hunger, not even as well as getting a cat or a dog would.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:19 PM
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I suppose we could combine their behavior and hookup status, and call them aCels.

(Not sure whether I'm joking or not.)
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:30 PM
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The hunger for touch and physical affection is, legitimately, a big problem for those who are... whatever-you-want-to-call-it. Especially in a society like ours, which has few opportunities for socially acceptable physical human contact with people you're not already intimate with.

But I don't think a sex doll, no matter how realistic, would really satisfy that hunger, not even as well as getting a cat or a dog would.
That is how I feel as well. Massage (the non-sexual kind) would be another way to get touch in a socially acceptable way. And there are a ton of high touch career options - health care, elder care, day care..... But pets are wonderful.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:33 PM
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But I don't think a sex doll, no matter how realistic, would really satisfy that hunger, not even as well as getting a cat or a dog would.
Perhaps you are unaware of recent advances in technology.

This isn't specifically a sex doll, but scientists in Japan have invented a robot named Paro to be a companion to the elderly. Paro is a robotic baby harp seal. It's been shown to have a calming effect on dementia patients.

I think it's only a matter of time before we have sex robots that can provide a reasonable enough approximation of romantic companionship to actually be a useful therapeutic aid to some people.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:34 PM
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While incels and other single people doubtlessly are feeling a lack of human touch, I'm not at all confident that getting it would fill the void in their lives. (I mean, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't fill the void in my life.)

What these people want is a relationship. Well okay, what they want now is a harem of sex slaves. But what they wanted originally was a relationship.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:38 PM
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While incels and other single people doubtlessly are feeling a lack of human touch, I'm not at all confident that getting it would fill the void in their lives. (I mean, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't fill the void in my life.)

What these people want is a relationship. Well okay, what they want now is a harem of sex slaves. But what they wanted originally was a relationship.
Yeah, having a relationship can fill several voids, of which a lack of human touch is only one.
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Old 07-12-2018, 02:46 PM
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Incels celebacy is purely voluntary.

It's their decision to behave in a way that turns women away. It's their decision to think the only women worthy of their attention are supermodels. It's their decision to think of women as fleshlights with breasts.

There's nothing involuntary about it.
There's always this tendency in the realm of dating/sex/relationships to think that if someone is unsuccessful in it, that it must therefore be their fault.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:02 PM
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There's always this tendency in the realm of dating/sex/relationships to think that if someone is unsuccessful in it, that it must therefore be their fault.
My singleness is entirely my fault; if I wanted not to be single I could accomplish that fact by the simple expediency of changing virtually everything about myself. Lose 100 more lbs. Change entire wardrobe. Get a cell phone and register for several social medii. Learn to cook. Learn to like housework. Discard and replace all hobbies with more common/acceptable ones (though liking Marvel Movies is still okay). Learn to like animals, the outdoors, and alcohol. Become a starry-eyed christian of some stripe.

Now, one could say that I don't need to do all these things. But could I really claim to be trying to make myself romantically appealing if I cut corners? Certainly not. But the fact I'm not doing all this is still entirely my own fault, I could at least be trying.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:14 PM
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There's always this tendency in the realm of dating/sex/relationships to think that if someone is unsuccessful in it, that it must therefore be their fault.
There is a tendency in life to think that if someone is unsuccessful in it, it must be their fault. And sometimes it is. Other times, it's something about the person that they cannot control. Still other times, it's something about the world that no one can control.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:29 PM
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My singleness is entirely my fault; if I wanted not to be single I could accomplish that fact by the simple expediency of changing virtually everything about myself.
I think there are two extreme points of view when talking Inceldom, both have their problems.

The first extreme point of view is to completely externalize blame. It's the world's fault. Women owe men sex. If you wholly buy into that mindset, then you aren't going to lift a finger to improve yourself and you will stew in a toxic frame of mind.

The other extreme view is to completely internalize blame. It's my own fault, I just need to try harder! That may work for some, or even most, but it's not going to work for all. What would you say to someone who has gone on dozens or even hundreds of dates but still hasn't found romance? What would you say to the Bare Branches of China, the men who can't find a woman because there's a numerical shortage of women due to China's One Child policy and mass female infanticide? Try harder! Some people just aren't going to find that special someone, no matter how hard they try.

The philosopher Epictetus put it best:

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Originally Posted by Epictetus
An uninstructed person will lay the fault of his own bad condition upon others. Someone just starting instruction will lay the fault on himself. Some who is perfectly instructed will place blame neither on others nor on himself.
  #43  
Old 07-12-2018, 03:33 PM
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ZipperJJ ZipperJJ is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bump View Post
But I also don't necessarily think these guys need to just accept that they're ugly, awkward and weird, and that they will probably be mostly celibate. What they need to do is accept the first three, and realize that as a result, they're not likely to score with the Bella Hadids of the world, and that the weird chubby girl at the coffee shop is probably a much more reasonable target for them to shoot for.
Hey don't pawn these freakshows off on us! Get your sister to date an incel and leave us weird chubby girls alone!

Last edited by ZipperJJ; 07-12-2018 at 03:33 PM.
  #44  
Old 07-12-2018, 03:53 PM
Blalron Blalron is offline
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Originally Posted by begbert2 View Post
While incels and other single people doubtlessly are feeling a lack of human touch, I'm not at all confident that getting it would fill the void in their lives. (I mean, I'm pretty sure it wouldn't fill the void in my life.)

What these people want is a relationship. Well okay, what they want now is a harem of sex slaves. But what they wanted originally was a relationship.
It won't completely fill the void all by itself, but it could certainly help.

In the past I've been easily able to find platonic female friends. But for whatever reason, this hasn't translated into a romantic relationship (at least, not for the past 8 years). Having friends is great, but there's still something missing in my life. Perhaps a robot companion could fill that particular void for me.

It's like the cereal Lucky Charms. If you just eat the marshallows, you won't be satisfied. If you just eat the cereal, you also won't be satisfied. It is only when you have them both together in the right proportions do you have a happy breakfast experience.

Last edited by Blalron; 07-12-2018 at 03:56 PM.
  #45  
Old 07-12-2018, 04:05 PM
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susan susan is offline
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1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OttoDaFe View Post
I suppose we could combine their behavior and hookup status, and call them aCels.
Or "D-cells." A lot of D-cells.

2.
Quote:
the weird chubby girl at the coffee shop
Speaking as that girl, I'm not interested in having sex with people who aren't nice to other people.

3. There's still time to register for the 4TH INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS ON LOVE AND SEX WITH ROBOTS, or read the book.
  #46  
Old 07-12-2018, 05:03 PM
Wesley Clark Wesley Clark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lamoral View Post
There is absolutely nothing stopping a man from developing his body into one that would be considered attractive, and unless you're the Elephant Man, a little bit of good grooming and accessorizing can go a long way to improving the elements of the physical appearance that don't involve the physique.

You don't need to "accept" that fact that you have a substandard appearance, you should improve it, which is not difficult to do.



A man's character is more important than his appearance anyway, when it comes to attracting women, but that takes far more effort to improve than the body.
Certain aspects cannot really be changed much. Facial structure is largely determined by genetics and how your body formed in the womb. Some people have bad scars. Some people are so overweight that they can only obtain a socially acceptable body by undergoing massive lifestyle changes that many people cannot maintain (surgery combined with really big lifestyle changes).

Also, and this is very important, a big part of the incel community is mental, not physical. A lot of incels don't look that bad. They just have higher levels of social dysfunction (autism spectrum disorders, histories of abuse, etc). you can't fix those by going to the gym and changing your clothes. Some of them are incurable, some require years of therapy to just kindof get a handle on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bump View Post
There's nothing at all stopping these guys from going out and hiring a hooker or three, but that's not the answer to their problems, and offering a mechanical alternative would probably be even less welcome.

But I also don't necessarily think these guys need to just accept that they're ugly, awkward and weird, and that they will probably be mostly celibate. What they need to do is accept the first three, and realize that as a result, they're not likely to score with the Bella Hadids of the world, and that the weird chubby girl at the coffee shop is probably a much more reasonable target for them to shoot for.
I'm not really sure you guys understand what I meant. In the incel community there is a sense of despair because of things like the 80/20 rule which basically states women mostly only want the top 20% of guys. And 80% of guys cannot be in the top 20%.

Yeah a guy can dress nice, get a good body, etc. but if every guy does that, then the 80/20 rule just changes to take that for granted. 400 years ago not having boils on your skin, having a bank account and being 5'10" probably put you in the top 20%. Now because almost every guy has that, it doesn't count for much.

The point is that, yes guys can improve themselves. But if all guys improve themselves, then we are all right back where we started. If you could push a magic button and give every guy on earth an athletes body and 6 pack abs, then in the minds of incels women would just start ignoring the bottom 80% of those men and only want the top 20%.

The fear is that the 'weird chubby girl' at the coffee shop is only interested in the top 20% of men even though she isn't in the top 20% of women.
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  #47  
Old 07-12-2018, 05:08 PM
Lamoral Lamoral is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
Certain aspects cannot really be changed much. Facial structure is largely determined by genetics and how your body formed in the womb. Some people have bad scars. Some people are so overweight that they can only obtain a socially acceptable body by undergoing massive lifestyle changes that many people cannot maintain (surgery combined with really big lifestyle changes).
The things you describe are not common enough to be actual impediments to success with the opposite sex for a substantial number of people. Only a very small percentage of us have faces that are seriously so abnormal or scarred, or are so morbidly overweight, that they would be a significant obstacle to them. For all the rest, appearing presentable is a matter of minor cosmetic adjustments.

Quote:
I'm not really sure you guys understand what I meant. In the incel community there is a sense of despair because of things like the 80/20 rule which basically states women mostly only want the top 20% of guys. And 80% of guys cannot be in the top 20%.
Well, that's a distorted way of thinking and it needs to be corrected if they are to have normal lives.
  #48  
Old 07-12-2018, 05:10 PM
Robot Arm Robot Arm is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by begbert2 View Post
My singleness is entirely my fault; if I wanted not to be single I could accomplish that fact by the simple expediency of changing virtually everything about myself. Lose 100 more lbs. Change entire wardrobe. Get a cell phone and register for several social medii. Learn to cook. Learn to like housework. Discard and replace all hobbies with more common/acceptable ones (though liking Marvel Movies is still okay). Learn to like animals, the outdoors, and alcohol. Become a starry-eyed christian of some stripe.

Now, one could say that I don't need to do all these things. But could I really claim to be trying to make myself romantically appealing if I cut corners? Certainly not. But the fact I'm not doing all this is still entirely my own fault, I could at least be trying.
I'm not sure the level of change you describe is even possible. Attending a church would give the opportunity to meet people, and you could go through the motions and sing all the hymns, but that doesn't make you a starry-eyed christian. It's a matter of faith. Similarly, you can choose to do housework, but I don't think you can choose to like housework. There's a limit to how much we can reinvent ourselves.

If you did all those things, and formed a relationship, do you think you'd be happy? I think I'd feel like a fraud, that I'd tricked someone into being with me, and that they weren't in love with me, but with the person I was only pretending to be.

And ultimately, what makes you think those are the things holding you back. Plenty of starry-eyed christians find happy relationships, but so do plenty of atheists. Plenty of drinkers find happy relationships, but so do plenty of teetotalers. I don't think there's some secret recipe of 11 traits and habits that someone can use to cook up a healthy romantic life. I've looked. I'm still looking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by susan View Post
3. There's still time to register for the 4TH INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS ON LOVE AND SEX WITH ROBOTS, or read the book.
My invitation must have gotten lost in the mail. Again.
  #49  
Old 07-12-2018, 05:27 PM
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What I want out of a relationship is more than just sex and cuddling. I also want, for instance, conversation. I want partnership. I want someone who's willing and able to raise children with me. And maybe someday we will have robots advanced enough to do all of that... but a robot advanced enough to meet my relationship needs is also one advanced enough that it's relevant whether it wants to be in a relationship with me. At which point, it's not really any different than the problem of finding a human woman interested in me.

And, honestly, I probably could find a human woman I'm interested in, and who is also interested in me. But I'm not trying very hard right now, because my life's relatively unstable right now, and I want to put down roots before I start pursuing a relationship. I don't want to get started in a relationship and then suddenly have to say "oh, by the way, honey, I need to move halfway across the state for that job".
  #50  
Old 07-12-2018, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Clark View Post
I'm not really sure you guys understand what I meant. In the incel community there is a sense of despair because of things like the 80/20 rule which basically states women mostly only want the top 20% of guys. And 80% of guys cannot be in the top 20%.
Saying they feel despair because they embrace bullshit is not really much of an explanation. It's probably a reversal of actual cause and effect as well.
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