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Old 07-25-2018, 12:41 PM
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you are President: how do you broach Area 51?


Inspired by a General Questions thread on what state secrets a President can/can't know:
You become President and are very curious, like most people, about Area 51. How do you ask to learn about it without feeling embarassed or ashamed?
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Old 07-25-2018, 01:02 PM
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You immediately ask to be flown to Area 51 in Air Force 1.
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Old 07-25-2018, 01:04 PM
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Why would you feel embarrassed? I'd just tell my Chief of Staff to set up a briefing with whomever knows about this stuff. That would be within the first week, for sure.
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Old 07-25-2018, 01:29 PM
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You immediately ask to be flown to Area 51 in Air Force 1.
There is a 99.9% chance that Groom Lake is exactly what it is supposed to be, a top secret aviation research facility. There are people who watch the airfield from afar. If AF1 is seen flying in there the CTers will go nuts for no good reason. Better to be just briefed on it and send someone to check if need be.
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Old 07-25-2018, 01:32 PM
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There is a 99.9% chance that Groom Lake is exactly what it is supposed to be, a top secret aviation research facility. There are people who watch the airfield from afar. If AF1 is seen flying in there the CTers will go nuts for no good reason. Better to be just briefed on it and send someone to check if need be.
But where is the fun in that?
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Old 07-25-2018, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Peebles View Post
Inspired by a General Questions thread on what state secrets a President can/can't know:
You become President and are very curious, like most people, about Area 51. How do you ask to learn about it without feeling embarassed or ashamed?
Well, if it actually were me I wouldn't be all that curious except wrt black projects I need to know about, assuming there are any I DO need to know about as president. But if I actually thought there were aliens and such there I'd ask for a briefing. They would either tell me or not...not much I could do about it if they gave me a brief that didn't have aliens and such in it, since you'd have to rely on the fact that they are telling you what you need to know. I suppose you could additionally push things by requesting a tour then see for yourself.

Basically, if I actually was the kind of person who believed in this stuff AND was president I doubt I'd be all that embarrassed about asking.
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Old 07-25-2018, 03:27 PM
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"Hi, I would like a briefing on all our classified aerospace programs, including those at Groom Dry Lake."
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Old 07-25-2018, 03:32 PM
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I would type up an alhabetized list of projects/sites, saying I wanted to review them. I would leave out Area 51, and a few others things I knew the name of. Then I would insert, by hand, Area 51, and the others purposefully omitted, so they looked like an afterthought. Then I would say, "for simplicity, let's go in alphabetical order", so we would hit Area 51 early on. They would never suspect I only became President to meet "the Greys".

Last edited by Jim Peebles; 07-25-2018 at 03:33 PM. Reason: omitted word
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Old 07-25-2018, 04:08 PM
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I thought Dugway Proving Ground was the new Area 51 anyway...
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Old 07-25-2018, 04:42 PM
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It's like a new Prime Minister of the UK asking about the Loch Ness Monster.

There's nothing to investigate.
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Old 07-25-2018, 07:22 PM
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There is a 99.9% chance that Groom Lake is exactly what it is supposed to be, a top secret aviation research facility. There are people who watch the airfield from afar. If AF1 is seen flying in there the CTers will go nuts for no good reason. Better to be just briefed on it and send someone to check if need be.
Air Force One is whatever random USAF aircraft POTUS happens to be one, POTUS can also fly one a non-military aircraft (Executive One), and the presidential call-signs can be avoided for security reasons. The bigger problem would be getting POTUS away from the press corps and explaining away the hole in his schedule.
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Old 07-25-2018, 08:14 PM
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I would get my approved body double to go golfing, while I flew there and had a look-see.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:03 PM
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At this point we know there is nothing odd about Area 51, because if there was the meathead in chief would have tweeted about it already.

There was some moron who was convinced that microprocessor designs came from aliens. I worked in microprocessor design. They didn't. That is unless the aliens were way stupid.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:29 PM
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At this point we know there is nothing odd about Area 51, because if there was the meathead in chief would have tweeted about it already.


That presupposes they would tell him about it.


If you were in charge of the Alien Secrets, would you have told him?
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:45 PM
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Hey, DJT is good friends with the guy who runs those supermarket tabloids I am sure he has the lowdown on aliens and such.
Or maybe his handlers just screened him a copy of E.T.that would have kept him quiet til he lost interest.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:46 PM
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There are people who watch the airfield from afar.
There was a UFO/CT skeptic who hung out at Rachel in the mid-90s and wrote about expeditions to "Freedom Ridge" and his interactions with the denizens of the Little A'Le'Inn in his blog called The Groom Lake Desert Rat. Interesting reading.
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Old 07-25-2018, 09:56 PM
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The bigger problem would be getting POTUS away from the press corps and explaining away the hole in his schedule.
"POTUS is going to Camp David and ya'll aren't invited"
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Old 07-26-2018, 08:47 AM
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There was some moron who was convinced that microprocessor designs came from aliens. I worked in microprocessor design. They didn't.

So says the guy whose location is "Deep Space"?

A real master of disguise I see.
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Old 07-26-2018, 10:59 AM
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One of my favorite moments from the original Independence Day was the president's entry into Area 51:

A51 Guard: Here's our main research facility.
President: Let's see it.
A51 Guard: I'm sorry sir. It's a clean room. We keep it static free...
President: (making it clear that it is an order) Open...the door.
A51 Guard: (half second of hesitation, fumbles with keys) Yes, sir.
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Old 07-26-2018, 12:21 PM
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Area 51 is a toxic hellhole whose actual problems like poisoned workers get largely ignored thanks to people obsessing over silly rumors about aliens. I'd be more interested in having the people responsible fired and prosecuted than anything else.
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Old 07-26-2018, 12:22 PM
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Yes, I've often wondered what its like to be an incoming president and they sit you down and tell you all the big secrets. for example Truman didnt know about the atomic bomb until he was sworn in.

I think a bigger issue would be all the secret areas for say war planning and where they take the president in case of nuclear war such as Mount Weather.
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Old 07-26-2018, 12:49 PM
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I would broach it with some parsley and carrots.
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Old 07-26-2018, 12:57 PM
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Yes, I've often wondered what its like to be an incoming president and they sit you down and tell you all the big secrets. for example Truman didnt know about the atomic bomb until he was sworn in.

I think a bigger issue would be all the secret areas for say war planning and where they take the president in case of nuclear war such as Mount Weather.
Doesn't seem to be that secret if there is a wiki page on it
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Old 07-26-2018, 01:10 PM
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Doesn't seem to be that secret if there is a wiki page on it
Heh. I just finished Raven Rock:The Story of the U.S. Government's Secret Plan to Save Itself--While the Rest of Us Die . It talks about the history of Mt Weather and other such hideaways. A very interesting read.

Last edited by blondebear; 07-26-2018 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 07-26-2018, 01:58 PM
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That presupposes they would tell him about it.


If you were in charge of the Alien Secrets, would you have told him?
Maybe they did, and when he is screaming about illegal aliens we're interpreting it incorrectly.
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Old 07-26-2018, 02:00 PM
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One of my favorite moments from the original Independence Day was the president's entry into Area 51:

A51 Guard: Here's our main research facility.
President: Let's see it.
A51 Guard: I'm sorry sir. It's a clean room. We keep it static free...
President: (making it clear that it is an order) Open...the door.
A51 Guard: (half second of hesitation, fumbles with keys) Yes, sir.
You laugh, but.
AT&T had a fab in Spain. Which of course is very clean. The King was coming to visit, and security needed to check out the place. They did so by having their dogs run through all the air pipes and vents and the room itself.
Heard from someone who worked there at the time.
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Old 07-26-2018, 02:26 PM
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It's like a new Prime Minister of the UK asking about the Loch Ness Monster.

There's nothing to investigate.
Well, no. Groom lake is a site full of Top Secret projects. None have anything to do with aliens, sure.

One might have been flying saucers, as the Germans were working on one at the end of WW2. They apparently proved too unstable.
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Old 07-26-2018, 02:27 PM
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But where is the fun in that?
Hell yes!
Take Air Force One, with a brace of F-16s as fighter escort.
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Old 07-26-2018, 02:36 PM
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...There was some moron who was convinced that microprocessor designs came from aliens. I worked in microprocessor design. They didn't. That is unless the aliens were way stupid.
That was a Star Trek: Voyager episode.
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Old 07-26-2018, 03:38 PM
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Doesn't seem to be that secret if there is a wiki page on it
Some secrets are less secret than others.
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Old 07-26-2018, 03:54 PM
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I would broach it with some parsley and carrots.
You should have your wages garnished for that.
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Old 07-27-2018, 12:14 AM
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Doesn't seem to be that secret if there is a wiki page on it
Things that are officially secret can be well known, actually. It sometimes leads to people who are supposedly "in the know" being actually ignorant of things that outsiders are aware of, because they will ask insiders who are required to lie to them about classified information instead of going to public sources.

I recall reading that happened with TEMPEST technology*; I read about it in the public library while the government was still keeping it secret. I had no idea at the time that it was supposedly secret; if it was a secret it wouldn't be in the library, right? But I read later that there was apparently a fair amount of industrial espionage and such that apparently went on while the targets were being told it was impossible.


* Reading what is being typed or shown on a screen remotely by analyzing the emissions from unshielded electronics.
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Old 07-27-2018, 12:31 AM
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Things that are officially secret can be well known, actually. It sometimes leads to people who are supposedly "in the know" being actually ignorant of things that outsiders are aware of, because they will ask insiders who are required to lie to them about classified information instead of going to public sources.
Another good example is the Israeli nuke program. We all know that it exists; and most sources estimate that they have about 200 warheads; but the Israeli government won't officially say anything.
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Old 07-27-2018, 02:02 AM
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That was a Star Trek: Voyager episode.
I never saw that one. This clown was CEO of a software company here.
(My name has nothing to do with that show, BTW.)
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Old 07-27-2018, 08:36 AM
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Doesn't seem to be that secret if there is a wiki page on it
Yes, but to actually be taken in and shown around is a different thing. to see your living quarters. To see the war room. They say its quite a place with underground food production and its own railroad.
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Old 07-31-2018, 06:36 AM
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That presupposes they would tell him about it.


If you were in charge of the Alien Secrets, would you have told him?
Other presidents like Jimmy Carter have also been interested in the subject.


Thing is, all presidents are civilians. The people who really know this stuff I'm guessing have been carefully selected and know to keep a secret. I have known people who did black ops and worked on secret projects that kept those secrets to the grave. Why? It was part of their mission and training.

The last president with any REAL security clearance earned thru years of high level national service was Eisenhower.
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Old 07-31-2018, 06:54 AM
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Other presidents like Jimmy Carter have also been interested in the subject.


Thing is, all presidents are civilians. The people who really know this stuff I'm guessing have been carefully selected and know to keep a secret. I have known people who did black ops and worked on secret projects that kept those secrets to the grave. Why? It was part of their mission and training.

The last president with any REAL security clearance earned thru years of high level national service was Eisenhower.
If these people really kept secrets, how do you know that they were working on top secret projects? Wouldn't a person who was really working on something like that say "I was working on soybean marketing" or something like that when you asked them what they did for a living?

Are you sure they weren't pulling your leg?

Last edited by Alley Dweller; 07-31-2018 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 07-31-2018, 07:17 AM
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Area 51 is a toxic hellhole whose actual problems like poisoned workers get largely ignored thanks to people obsessing over silly rumors about aliens. I'd be more interested in having the people responsible fired and prosecuted than anything else.
Not so much aliens, but rather the US drawing a nice comforting blanket of National Security over the whole proceedings. Which happened under the Clinton Administration, FWIW. See, e.g., https://lasvegassun.com/news/1996/ma...-lake-workers/

Although using classification to cover up screw-ups is a practice gleefully engaged in by both Republican and Democrat Administrations. You're right about the toxic shenanigans. God only knows what got burned up out there. I wouldn't be surprised if they were burning toxic waste from sites besides their own. After all, who could tell?

The President gets to know whatever the President wants to know. However s/he is supposed to be prudent enough to not demand secrets---that they could later inadvertently reveal---that they don't need in order to do their job. I think a more interesting dilemma than that of Area 51/Dugway/whatever island in the Pacific the US does its funky testing on these days, is: Imagine that you are a clandestine case officer for one of the US intelligence agencies. You run agents and deal with sources they handle. All of this is kept secret through various means, including code words, limited distribution, disguising the intel 'take', etc... The President asks you for the identity of your sources. Do you tell him/her, knowing the politician can happily run their mouth about them for political gain, and damn the consequences?
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Old 07-31-2018, 07:19 AM
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Other presidents like Jimmy Carter have also been interested in the subject.


Thing is, all presidents are civilians. The people who really know this stuff I'm guessing have been carefully selected and know to keep a secret. I have known people who did black ops and worked on secret projects that kept those secrets to the grave. Why? It was part of their mission and training.

The last president with any REAL security clearance earned thru years of high level national service was Eisenhower.
What about HW Bush running the CIA for awhile? How long was Carter a nuc---I seem to remember it wasn't very long---and don't nucs have to have a TS clearance?

EDIT: Voyager, how long did it take to clean the dog detritus out of that clean room? (Jeez, how would you clean it? Lots of alcohol and KimWipes?) Was it a Class 1000? Class 1?

Last edited by Gray Ghost; 07-31-2018 at 07:22 AM.
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Old 07-31-2018, 07:42 AM
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But where is the fun in that?
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Hell yes!
Take Air Force One, with a brace of F-16s as fighter escort.
Step one: Fly Air Force One from DC to Groom Lake.

Step two: Fly back to DC in Air Force One, then to the White House on Marine One. Answer no questions, and keep the media at a distance, but make sure that the president is photographed wearing a silver-colored helmet. (After all, tinfoil is for amateurs.)
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Old 07-31-2018, 02:06 PM
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EDIT: Voyager, how long did it take to clean the dog detritus out of that clean room? (Jeez, how would you clean it? Lots of alcohol and KimWipes?) Was it a Class 1000? Class 1?
Wasn't me, and I don't remember what my friend told me. They were making ICs there, so it was pretty high.
I would guess there are specialists in decontaminating clean rooms after explosions and fires and such. But I've never worked in a fab, so I'm no expert.
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Old 07-31-2018, 05:21 PM
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One of my favorite moments from the original Independence Day was the president's entry into Area 51:

A51 Guard: Here's our main research facility.
President: Let's see it.
A51 Guard: I'm sorry sir. It's a clean room. We keep it static free...
President: (making it clear that it is an order) Open...the door.
A51 Guard: (half second of hesitation, fumbles with keys) Yes, sir.
Beat me to it, this is what I was going to post!
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Old 07-31-2018, 08:52 PM
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Yes, I've often wondered what its like to be an incoming president and they sit you down and tell you all the big secrets. for example Truman didnt know about the atomic bomb until he was sworn in.
..[/URL]
"Mr President you needn't worry about the history books; NASA's predicting the warfleet from Zeta Reticuli will enter the solar system by the midterms."

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That was a Star Trek: Voyager episode.
IIRC microprocessors were derived from 29th century Federation technology that got sent back in time to the 1960s.

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Old 08-01-2018, 09:00 AM
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What about HW Bush running the CIA for awhile? How long was Carter a nuc---I seem to remember it wasn't very long---and don't nucs have to have a TS clearance?
Woops, forgot about those.
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Old 08-01-2018, 11:17 AM
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Other presidents like Jimmy Carter have also been interested in the subject.


Thing is, all presidents are civilians. The people who really know this stuff I'm guessing have been carefully selected and know to keep a secret. I have known people who did black ops and worked on secret projects that kept those secrets to the grave. Why? It was part of their mission and training.

The last president with any REAL security clearance earned thru years of high level national service was Eisenhower.
This is ridiculous. The POTUS is the ultimate authority in classifying information. POTUS is by definition allowed to see anything they want. POTUS can declassify anything they desire. They will be urged to not do so, but the president gets the final say. So if there is an alien stuff, the president can see it if he/she asks. Stop spreading crap info. Need to know does NOT apply to the POTUS.
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Old 08-01-2018, 12:26 PM
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It runs deeper than that. Trump is not asking about the aliens in Area 51 because he already knows. He's one of Them!

THE CALLS ARE COMING FROM INSIDE THE (WHITE) HOUSE!

Regards,
Shodan
  #47  
Old 08-01-2018, 01:58 PM
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Are you waiting for something like this?
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Originally Posted by Twitler in Chief
I have inspected Area51 and there are no aliens there! Total letdown!Did not meet Jeff Goldblum. He's been in a lot of alien movies.
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Old 08-01-2018, 02:38 PM
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Are you waiting for something like this?
Indeed.
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