#1  
Old 08-07-2018, 10:07 AM
Sgtdanno Sgtdanno is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 2
HOA

My wife and I bought a home under the presumption that there was no HOA. 4 days after taking ownership of the property are Neighbor comes down and informs us of his name and informs us of the HOA that governs this subdivision. What are my rights? Do I have to follow the HOA?
  #2  
Old 08-07-2018, 10:16 AM
OldGuy OldGuy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Very east of Foggybog, WI
Posts: 4,856
IANAL, but I'd assume you need to follow the HOA rules or be subject to their sanctions. The only relief I could see is if a HOA is considered a material latent defect. In most cases it is difficult to prove the homeowners knew of the defect, but it should be trivial in this case. You might be able to get some compensation.

But to be honest, it really sounds like you didn't do your homework here.
  #3  
Old 08-07-2018, 10:17 AM
RealityChuck's Avatar
RealityChuck RealityChuck is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Schenectady, NY, USA
Posts: 41,470
What does the deed say?

You'll need to consult a lawyer to know what your rights are.
__________________
"If a person saying he was something was all there was to it, this country'd be full of rich men and good-looking women. Too bad it isn't that easy.... In short, when someone else says you're a writer, that's when you're a writer... not before."
Purveyor of fine science fiction since 1982.
  #4  
Old 08-07-2018, 10:21 AM
senoy senoy is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 716
Call your county courthouse and see if it has a deed restriction. Typically an HOA will have deed restrictions and if they do, you're in trouble. Of course, you could claim that the previous owner didn't inform you of them and try and negate the sale. If it doesn't have any deed restrictions, then it's a so-called 'voluntary' association and you can tell him to get bent. Your realtor can also tell you if there are deed restrictions.
  #5  
Old 08-07-2018, 10:28 AM
awldune awldune is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: NC
Posts: 1,696
I would get in touch with your realtor.
  #6  
Old 08-07-2018, 10:30 AM
Joey P Joey P is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 27,631
When you say "under the assumption", did you just assume there wasn't one, did someone tell you that or did you get a signed statement from the previous homeowner stating there wasn't one? I think each of these things would have different ramifications.

When I bought my house, the previous homeowner, as part of the flurry of paperwork that went back and forth, had to sign something stating that there was no HOA. Just like I had to sign something stating that I was aware of the airport a block away.
  #7  
Old 08-07-2018, 10:34 AM
CookingWithGas's Avatar
CookingWithGas CookingWithGas is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tysons Corner, VA, USA
Posts: 12,185
"under the presumption that there was no HOA." Why did you make this presumption? Did you do any due diligence to determine this?

I would say you got poor representation by your Realtor (did you use a buyer's agent?). I do not know enough to say whether someone else fell down on the job.

I am the president of an HOA. In my state (what state do you live in?) sellers are required by law to provide the HOA documents to the buyer. The buyer may cancel the contract upon review of the documents, although the law does not provide a remedy if the documents are not provided and there is no cancellation before settlement occurs.

You may need a lawyer. The HOA may invoice you for HOA fees (usually monthly or quarterly), and may have rules that you disagree with. You may want to get a copy of the HOA documents, which you are entitled to. The specifics will vary by state and your deed, and IANAL.

Virginia state law:
55-509.4. Contract disclosure statement; right of cancellation; use of for sale sign in connection with resale; designation of authorized representative.
A. Subject to the provisions of subsection A of 55-509.10, an owner selling a lot shall disclose in the contract that (i) the lot is located within a development that is subject to the Virginia Property Owners' Association Act ( 55-508 et seq.); (ii) the Act requires the seller to obtain from the property owners' association an association disclosure packet and provide it to the purchaser; (iii) the purchaser may cancel the contract within three days after receiving the association disclosure packet or being notified that the association disclosure packet will not be available; (iv) if the purchaser has received the association disclosure packet, the purchaser has a right to request an update of such disclosure packet in accordance with subsection H of 55-509.6 or subsection D of 55-509.7, as appropriate; and (v) the right to receive the association disclosure packet and the right to cancel the contract are waived conclusively if not exercised before settlement.

For purposes of clause (iii), the association disclosure packet shall be deemed not to be available if (a) a current annual report has not been filed by the association with either the State Corporation Commission pursuant to 13.1-936 or with the Common Interest Community Board pursuant to 55-516.1, (b) the seller has made a written request to the association that the packet be provided and no such packet has been received within 14 days in accordance with subsection A of 55-509.5, or (c) written notice has been provided by the association that a packet is not available.

B. If the contract does not contain the disclosure required by subsection A, the purchaser's sole remedy is to cancel the contract prior to settlement.
__________________
Making the world a better place one fret at a time.
| | || || || || | |:| | || ||

Last edited by CookingWithGas; 08-07-2018 at 10:34 AM.
  #8  
Old 08-07-2018, 10:36 AM
mcgato mcgato is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Hoboken
Posts: 1,250
I don't know how that could happen. Before I bought my house, I was told that there was a HOA, what the monthly fees were for it. Prior to the closing, I was given a copy of the current bylaws for the HOA as well as financial information for the HOA. Somebody screwed up big time, or some scam is going on.
  #9  
Old 08-07-2018, 10:43 AM
Joey P Joey P is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 27,631
Is it possible there's a voluntary HOA? A few years before I moved in, my neighbor moved in and said they had one. After a few days, someone showed up, told him about the HOA and tried to get him to join. He said 'why? so you can fine be if I don't cut my grass, I'll pass'. As far as I know, he never heard anything about it again and it was gone by the time I got there.

Are they required to tell you about it if you're not required to join?

Last edited by Joey P; 08-07-2018 at 10:43 AM.
  #10  
Old 08-07-2018, 10:43 AM
bob++ bob++ is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Worcestershire UK
Posts: 5,990
We don't have HOAs over here thank goodness. I was recently watching a house-flip TV programme and a prospective buyer was a bit shocked when the agent told her that the HOA charge was around $250 a month. She hummed and hawed a bit and decided not to buy - I would have been off like a shot.

What would one expect to get back for that kind of money?

Last edited by bob++; 08-07-2018 at 10:44 AM.
  #11  
Old 08-07-2018, 10:51 AM
Panther Modern's Avatar
Panther Modern Panther Modern is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: /home/
Posts: 216
Nevermind. A lot of my points are addressed.

Last edited by Panther Modern; 08-07-2018 at 10:51 AM.
  #12  
Old 08-07-2018, 10:51 AM
senoy senoy is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 716
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob++ View Post
We don't have HOAs over here thank goodness. I was recently watching a house-flip TV programme and a prospective buyer was a bit shocked when the agent told her that the HOA charge was around $250 a month. She hummed and hawed a bit and decided not to buy - I would have been off like a shot.

What would one expect to get back for that kind of money?
For that price, there are probably all sorts of community amenities. Almost definitely a pool, maybe a little water park area, a lodge and private park. Sometimes the HOA will actually do your lawncare for you and may even do outside maintenance. If you're in a condo, they can be high just because of the infrastructure maintenance required to keep a large building operating correctly. You also have private sewage and water systems that can come out of HOA fees. All sorts of stuff.
  #13  
Old 08-07-2018, 11:40 AM
Tired and Cranky Tired and Cranky is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,120
For legal disputes, the best advice is to consult with a competent attorney in your jurisdiction. You should also closely read the documents you received over the course of buying this house. My guess is that you are bound by the HOA rules.

Did you ask your real estate agent if this house had an HOA and/or tell them that you did not want a house with an HOA? If so, they could have done a better job of pointing out the HOA to you but I doubt they are on the hook for any HOA fees.

Did the listing for the house show that it was in an HOA or that there was an HOA fee? Most listings in at least disclose whether there is an HOA even if the listings sometimes show the wrong fee or don't show a fee at all.

Did you receive any disclosures before you submitted your purchase agreement? The HOA is ordinarily disclosed in a seller's disclosure packet before you even make an offer although practices around sellers' disclosures vary from place to place. A seller offering a property isn't generally required to disclose an HOA before a would-be buyer makes an offer.

Did you get title insurance or hire a title research service? If so, what does their report say about the homeowners' association? If you bought title insurance but they failed to disclose the HOA, you may have a claim against the title insurer.

Did you receive the HOA documents before settlement? Most people want to review all the settlement documents before the actual closing and so request these things in advance and read through them closely so there are no surprises.

Did you receive the HOA documents at settlement? Most states require the seller to disclose the HOA to you after your offer is accepted and before closing. This can be done one minute before closing with the flurry of paperwork you got then. Most states will allow you to cancel your purchase agreement without penalty within a certain number of days after receiving the required disclosures but only up until closing. Once you've closed, this remedy is lost. Again, a lawyer can help you to know your rights.

My concern for you is that at some point in this process, you were told in writing that there was a homeowners' association. Instead of taking the time to understand that fact and how it might affect your interest in the property, you seemingly bought the property based on your presumption instead. That decision could prove costly.
  #14  
Old 08-07-2018, 11:53 AM
MikeF MikeF is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,401
My condo fees are about $250 a month and include water and sewer, all landscaping and snow removal, pool, maintenance of all common areas (everything exterior of the sheetrock of my living space) etc. plus a reserve fund for major projects like new roofs. Its pretty fair, IMHO
  #15  
Old 08-07-2018, 12:14 PM
Jonathan Chance Jonathan Chance is offline
Domo Arigato Mister Moderato
Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the run with Kilroy
Posts: 21,382
Heck, mine at $30/month and we have fields and mowing, a pool and a clubhouse. God knows what trouble they'd get up to at $250 per month.
  #16  
Old 08-07-2018, 12:19 PM
Channing Idaho Banks Channing Idaho Banks is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: beautiful Idaho
Posts: 2,402
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob++ View Post

What would one expect to get back for that kind of money?
Neighbors who aren't Riff-Raff.
  #17  
Old 08-07-2018, 12:21 PM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: So.Ark ?
Posts: 8,447
Reason number 323 I don't live in a suburb.
  #18  
Old 08-07-2018, 12:55 PM
Ruken Ruken is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DC
Posts: 6,293
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance View Post
Heck, mine at $30/month and we have fields and mowing, a pool and a clubhouse. God knows what trouble they'd get up to at $250 per month.
Maybe everything exterior of the sheetrock of your living space, as was written. It's not unusual to see condo fees around here in excess of $800/mo. Typically in larger tower type buildings.
  #19  
Old 08-07-2018, 01:22 PM
CookingWithGas's Avatar
CookingWithGas CookingWithGas is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Tysons Corner, VA, USA
Posts: 12,185
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeF View Post
My condo fees are about $250 a month and include water and sewer, all landscaping and snow removal, pool, maintenance of all common areas (everything exterior of the sheetrock of my living space) etc. plus a reserve fund for major projects like new roofs. Its pretty fair, IMHO
Condos are a little different than the OP's problem. You are not going to move into a condo and not realize there is a condo association.
  #20  
Old 08-07-2018, 01:36 PM
control-z control-z is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
Reason number 323 I don't live in a suburb.
Not just suburbs, HOAs can be way out in rural areas.
  #21  
Old 08-07-2018, 02:44 PM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 29,683
While a nuts-and-bots discussion of what an HOA is (and what it does) is arguably a matter for GQ, istm that since the OP was asking about his options are to get out from under an HOA, it becomes a discussion of legalities, and therefore better suited to IMHO.

I've sent a report suggesting a change of venue.

The only reason I'm mentioning it is because I can hardly believe that nobody else has already done so (the fact that nobody has mentioned reporting it is not proof that it hasn't been done; but my mentioning that I did may forestall someone else deciding to perhaps further pester the mods about it).
  #22  
Old 08-07-2018, 02:48 PM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Anaheim, CA
Posts: 29,683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgtdanno View Post
My wife and I bought a home under the presumption that there was no HOA. 4 days after taking ownership of the property are Neighbor comes down and informs us of his name and informs us of the HOA that governs this subdivision. What are my rights? Do I have to follow the HOA?
Did you ask your neighbor to provide you with some literature about the HOA? Why were you under the presumption that there was no HOA? Did you instruct your REALTOR/real estate agent to exclude such properties from your consideration? If so, did you put the instruction in writing?
  #23  
Old 08-07-2018, 02:50 PM
Hilarity N. Suze Hilarity N. Suze is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Denver
Posts: 7,603
A similar thing happened to me. We bought the house, no HOA, no granite counters. A few weeks later a neighbor and I were complaining about the mail and she said one of her mail pieces that had gone astray was the HOA bill and of course I knew how they were about that.

I panicked.

It turned out that a lawn maintenance company had offered some kind of deal where the more people who signed up, the cheaper the maintenance was. I don't know whether the previous owner had signed up--the lawn sure didn't look all that maintained and it looks worse now--but it wasn't binding on us.

So check it out. It could just be a misunderstanding. Or it could be the kind of thing that once you join it you can't get out and it is binding on the next owner.

Where I live (Colorado, USA) there is a disclosure form and they do have to tell you if there's an HOA and how much the fee is.* So really, all I had to do was read my paperwork.

*And if there were pets in the home, plumbing issues, smoking in the home, and about 300 more questions.

Last edited by Hilarity N. Suze; 08-07-2018 at 02:52 PM.
  #24  
Old 08-07-2018, 02:59 PM
filmore filmore is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgtdanno View Post
My wife and I bought a home under the presumption that there was no HOA. 4 days after taking ownership of the property are Neighbor comes down and informs us of his name and informs us of the HOA that governs this subdivision. What are my rights? Do I have to follow the HOA?
You know that huge stack of paperwork you signed at the title company? Go through each page and find out if you signed any sort of agreement about an HOA. Typically it will be included with those docs. If it's there, it will likely be it's own contract that spells out what you can and can't do on your property, as well as what the dues will be used for. You can also call up your title company and ask them, as they will likely have record of it if it exists.

Being in an HOA isn't necessarily bad. I personally like it because of the conformity. I don't have to worry about unmowed lawns, boats/cars stored in the front yard, etc. Some HOAs are bad because the board is made up of nitpickers who are living out a power trip and will ding you for any infraction. But the HOA board is made up of people who live in the neighborhood, so the board can always be changed.
  #25  
Old 08-07-2018, 03:06 PM
engineer_comp_geek's Avatar
engineer_comp_geek engineer_comp_geek is offline
Robot Mod in Beta Testing
Moderator
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 21,745
Moderator Action

Welcome to the SDMB, Sgtdanno.

It's probably not obvious from the forum descriptions, but we prefer real-world legal issues to be in our IMHO forum, just to emphasize the fact that any responses you get here are just the opinions of some online folks and should not be taken as the equivalent of professional legal advice.

It's no biggie. I'll move the thread for you.

Moving thread from GQ to IMHO.
  #26  
Old 08-07-2018, 07:07 PM
doreen doreen is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Woodhaven,Queens, NY
Posts: 5,665
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey P View Post
Is it possible there's a voluntary HOA? A few years before I moved in, my neighbor moved in and said they had one. After a few days, someone showed up, told him about the HOA and tried to get him to join. He said 'why? so you can fine be if I don't cut my grass, I'll pass'. As far as I know, he never heard anything about it again and it was gone by the time I got there.

Are they required to tell you about it if you're not required to join?
Yes, there are two kinds of HOAs. There's the kind where membership is mandatory, the association may make rules about how you can use your property and some services might be provided. There may be common property or facilities, like a pool or a playground. There's usually a deed restriction. It's similar to a condo association - the difference is that you own your house and a specified piece of property not a "unit". This type of association and its dues is usually mentioned in real estate listings that I've seen and the restriction should show up in the title search.


Then there's the other kind, the voluntary sort. They go by different names in different places - "homeowner's association", "residents' association" "property owner's association" "block association" and so on. They are completely different from the first type. Membership is not mandatory,the dues are very low ( like $30 per year), they don't have the power to make and enforce rules, and the "services" they provide are events like holding meetings with local politicians, organizing a neighborhood-wide yard sale or spearheading a campaign to get a traffic light at a particularly dangerous intersection. These are not mentioned in real estate listings and would not show up in a title search. There may be multiple organizations open to residents of the same neighborhoods - I wouldn't call them "competing" because people often belong to more than one.

OP ,did the neighbor tel you the name of the HOA ?- if so, you should be able to tell which type it is by checking their website.
  #27  
Old 08-07-2018, 07:21 PM
River Hippie River Hippie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: N.E. Indiana, USA
Posts: 5,093
My HOA isn't too bad. I pay 200 bucks a year and much of that goes into lake maintenance (weed and algae control). They also prohibit gas engines on the lake because it's not very big and it's swampy and motor boats and jet skis would churn it into mud soup. Plus the noise would be annoying. They prohibit chain link fences and a few other things. Nothing too oppressive.
  #28  
Old 08-07-2018, 09:42 PM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: So.Ark ?
Posts: 8,447
Quote:
Originally Posted by control-z View Post
Not just suburbs, HOAs can be way out in rural areas.
Not in this backwater.
  #29  
Old 08-07-2018, 11:07 PM
gazpacho gazpacho is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 5,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Channing Idaho Banks View Post
Neighbors who aren't Riff-Raff.
The lack of riff raff is a big plus. Sometimes HOA are intrusive jerks who regulate the height of your lawn but sometimes they are the people that keep your dirt bag neighbors from using their front yard to store 3 generations of cars in various states of decay.
  #30  
Old 08-08-2018, 09:56 AM
control-z control-z is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazpacho View Post
The lack of riff raff is a big plus. Sometimes HOA are intrusive jerks who regulate the height of your lawn but sometimes they are the people that keep your dirt bag neighbors from using their front yard to store 3 generations of cars in various states of decay.
Personally I'd rather have decaying cars next door than another layer of government over me, raising fees and telling me I can't paint my shutters green or build another building on my property.
  #31  
Old 08-08-2018, 10:12 AM
bob++ bob++ is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Worcestershire UK
Posts: 5,990
Over here HOAs or their ilk, are only found in blocks of flats (condos?) where they are necessary to deal with all the maintenance etc of the communal areas and the building.

The role of the HOA elsewhere is mostly taken up by the local council which apart from running all the local services like police, fire and rescue, schools, refuse collection, road maintenance and sweeping etc, controls planning which prevents me from putting anything more than a shed in my garden, stops me from having over-height fences and restricts the size of my neighbour's extension.

If my neighbour neglects his house and lets the weeds run riot there is little I can do about it unless the weeds are really nasty like giant hogweed. I can't make him paint his garage door or stop him from painting it pink either. All I or anyone else can do is to apply pressure and negotiate - an option with a regrettably high rate of failure.

We also have a law which says that I must disclose everything to any potential buyer, so if my neighbour plays loud music all night I have to disclose it.

In practice, the better neighbourhoods are the more mature streets with few rentals. Most people take some pride in the place where they live but short term lets with absent landlords and social housing can be problematic.

I suspect that it's the same the world over that the quick way to assess a street is to look at the cars parked there.

Last edited by bob++; 08-08-2018 at 10:15 AM.
  #32  
Old 08-08-2018, 10:18 AM
filmore filmore is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by control-z View Post
Personally I'd rather have decaying cars next door than another layer of government over me, raising fees and telling me I can't paint my shutters green or build another building on my property.
This is another reason that HOA's can be beneficial--owners will self-select for the type of community they want. The people who want full creative control over their property will choose independent communities and those who want the neighborhood to have certain standards will select HOA communities. Neither preference is right or wrong, but lots of problems happen when owners have vastly different perspectives about what kind of community their neighborhood should have.
  #33  
Old 08-08-2018, 10:49 AM
kayaker's Avatar
kayaker kayaker is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Western Pennsylvania
Posts: 29,237
Quote:
Originally Posted by control-z View Post
Personally I'd rather have decaying cars next door than another layer of government over me, raising fees and telling me I can't paint my shutters green or build another building on my property.
Anytime I've house-hunted I've told the real-estate lady (it's always been a lady) that I do not want to look at any homes in HOAs. Period. Don't waste my time. I'm serious.

It has worked.
  #34  
Old 08-08-2018, 03:15 PM
Sgtdanno Sgtdanno is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 2
After a few phone calls to the county courthouse, there has never been an HOA filed in this county. But the paperwork from my neighbor shows a "legal" HOA signed by neighborhood 5 year's ago. And signed and stamped by local attorney. My understanding of the law is that once paperwork drawn up it needs to be submitted to Court's. From m finding this was never done.
  #35  
Old 08-08-2018, 03:22 PM
control-z control-z is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virginia
Posts: 12,347
Quote:
Originally Posted by filmore View Post
This is another reason that HOA's can be beneficial--owners will self-select for the type of community they want. The people who want full creative control over their property will choose independent communities and those who want the neighborhood to have certain standards will select HOA communities. Neither preference is right or wrong, but lots of problems happen when owners have vastly different perspectives about what kind of community their neighborhood should have.
This is true. Trouble is the HOA rules you sign up for initially can change drastically over time. The HOA I lived in had a board and at some point they decided we should be living in country club instead of a working class weekend resort.
  #36  
Old 08-08-2018, 03:31 PM
filmore filmore is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgtdanno View Post
After a few phone calls to the county courthouse, there has never been an HOA filed in this county. But the paperwork from my neighbor shows a "legal" HOA signed by neighborhood 5 year's ago. And signed and stamped by local attorney. My understanding of the law is that once paperwork drawn up it needs to be submitted to Court's. From m finding this was never done.
That sounds like pretty good news for you. You did not enter into that agreement, so you should not be bound by it. They may pressure you to join, but I doubt if they can force you to. DO NOT JOIN THE HOA WITHOUT TALKING TO A LAWYER. No matter how nice or mean your neighbors are about it, don't agree to the HOA without fully understanding the consequences.
  #37  
Old 08-08-2018, 03:44 PM
Musicat Musicat is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sturgeon Bay, WI USA
Posts: 20,506
Quote:
Originally Posted by doreen View Post
Then there's the other kind, the voluntary sort. They go by different names in different places - "homeowner's association", "residents' association" "property owner's association" "block association" and so on. They are completely different from the first type. Membership is not mandatory,the dues are very low ( like $30 per year), they don't have the power to make and enforce rules, and the "services" they provide are events like holding meetings with local politicians, organizing a neighborhood-wide yard sale or spearheading a campaign to get a traffic light at a particularly dangerous intersection. These are not mentioned in real estate listings and would not show up in a title search. There may be multiple organizations open to residents of the same neighborhoods - I wouldn't call them "competing" because people often belong to more than one.
There's another variation on this kind, a voluntary association that has unenforceable covenants. These can show up in a title search, but only an attorney could tell you if any such covenants have ever been, or are likely to be enforced, not by the government (it's a civil, not a criminal matter) but by an association or anyone else.

I've had attorneys for prospective buyers call me -- because I have been on the local association's board for a long time, and am known as a local historian -- to ask about this. Anyone looking at most local deeds is appalled by some 90 year-old provisions, and can't believe they are still legal (they aren't), and no one has ever attempted to enforce them.
  #38  
Old 08-08-2018, 03:47 PM
muldoonthief's Avatar
muldoonthief muldoonthief is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: North of Boston
Posts: 10,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicat View Post
There's another variation on this kind, a voluntary association that has unenforceable covenants. These can show up in a title search, but only an attorney could tell you if any such covenants have ever been, or are likely to be enforced, not by the government (it's a civil, not a criminal matter) but by an association or anyone else.

I've had attorneys for prospective buyers call me -- because I have been on the local association's board for a long time, and am known as a local historian -- to ask about this. Anyone looking at most local deeds is appalled by some 90 year-old provisions, and can't believe they are still legal (they aren't), and no one has ever attempted to enforce them.
Does the phrase "not of the white race" show up in those 90 year old provisions?
  #39  
Old 08-08-2018, 04:21 PM
Musicat Musicat is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sturgeon Bay, WI USA
Posts: 20,506
Quote:
Originally Posted by muldoonthief View Post
Does the phrase "not of the white race" show up in those 90 year old provisions?
You're on the right track.

Among the things prohibited by the 1937 covenants were keeping chickens, ducks, cattle or pigs on your residential property, or allowing a person of non-Caucasian ancestry to sleep overnight.

This might not sound so unusual for the time, but what is even more interesting is how serious the covenant framers felt each violation was. If you were caught with a cow in the kitchen, a pig on the porch, or a duck on the divan, presumably the sheriff would write you a ticket. But if you were caught with a Jew waking up on the couch in the morning, the violation was so serious that you would instantly lose your property, reverting back to the previous owner, without recourse to the courts. (That's exactly what it says.)

1937 priorities were a little different from now.
  #40  
Old 08-08-2018, 06:07 PM
Chefguy's Avatar
Chefguy Chefguy is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 40,065
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazpacho View Post
The lack of riff raff is a big plus. Sometimes HOA are intrusive jerks who regulate the height of your lawn but sometimes they are the people that keep your dirt bag neighbors from using their front yard to store 3 generations of cars in various states of decay.
Riffraff, maybe, but it doesn't keep out your run of the mill assholes.
  #41  
Old 08-08-2018, 08:06 PM
betterlifethroughchemistry betterlifethroughchemistry is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sgtdanno View Post
After a few phone calls to the county courthouse, there has never been an HOA filed in this county. But the paperwork from my neighbor shows a "legal" HOA signed by neighborhood 5 year's ago. And signed and stamped by local attorney. My understanding of the law is that once paperwork drawn up it needs to be submitted to Court's. From m finding this was never done.
When we closed on our present house 19 years ago, we were a little surprised to be presented at closing with a paper to sign to acknowledge our neighborhood's HOA...my initial reaction was to look at the real estate agent and say, "Whaaaat??", the lawyer pointed out it was a voluntary HOA, that the dues were $5 per year, and the only thing the HOA did was publish an annual neighborhood directory, prove printed maps for the annual yard sale and maintain the sign into the neighborhood...some years we've forgotten to pay, but no recourse...we try to as we like the directory...

That being said, we are looking for a retirement home, likely a condo near a beach, the HOA is one of the first things we look at, we know we're going to pay (a pool, clubhouse, insurance and coverage from the sheet rock out is important to us), it's just a matter of how much...
  #42  
Old 08-09-2018, 07:29 PM
InsomniaMama InsomniaMama is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
Reason number 323 I don't live in a suburb.
I think you've confused subdivision with suburbs. Totally different beasts.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:09 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017