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Old 08-14-2018, 08:02 PM
Cartooniverse Cartooniverse is offline
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Yet more Catholic priests are rapists? Oh. Say it ain't so.

Pennsylvania, a breeding ground for Catholic Priest rapists.

Yanno... a lot of years ago, Catholic Dopers around here got really all up in arms because I wanted Bernard Cardinal Law to be arrested. They thought I was just being way too over-reactive and not at all, er....Christian.... about it.

Well, the Vatican went and protected him by slipping him out of the country and employing him within The Vatican City till he died.

And now this. More verified rapes. Thousands, so the article says.

So, those Dopers who were so up in arms all of those years ago?

Go fuck yourselves.
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:11 PM
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Matt Walsh (not the comedian) with a scathing commentary

I've only ever known Walsh to deflect onto other denominations and secular institutions when it comes to abuse issues, so I didn't know what to expect.
  #3  
Old 08-14-2018, 10:58 PM
not what you'd expect not what you'd expect is online now
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Jesus, this is so disgusting. God almighty.

From the report I read:

"The abuse ranged from groping and masturbation to anal, oral and vaginal rape. One boy was forced to say confession to the priest who sexually abused him. A 9-year-old boy was forced to perform oral sex and then had his mouth washed out with holy water. Another boy was made to pose naked as if being crucified and then was photographed by a group of priests who Attorney General Josh Shapiro said produced and shared child pornography on church grounds."
  #4  
Old 08-15-2018, 12:49 AM
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Some folks need to learn how to spell "pray".
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Old 08-15-2018, 03:12 AM
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If the depravity ended with the abuse and the rapes, we might just be able to distinguish between the evil behaviour of a massive number of priests and the institution.

But the systemic cover-up by the hierarchy around the world and over decades (more likely centuries) makes this impossible. The Catholic Church is rotten to its core. They disgrace everything they teach.

From my pov, this is akin to organized crime; and the reason why we don't treat the Church appropriately is the tag "religion".
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Old 08-15-2018, 03:20 AM
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Is this a good time to post Tim Minchin songs?
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Old 08-15-2018, 03:41 AM
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I'm just going to quote what I said in the Cardinal Pell thread a couple of years ago.

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Fuck it, I'm at that point already. Seize all the assets of the Church, ignoring all the technicalities of ownership and asset protection, and distribute them to the victims. The true believers can go rebuild their church from scratch if they want to. We need a new Thomas Cromwell I reckon.
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Old 08-15-2018, 04:06 AM
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Countdown to guilty priest excommunications in 5...... 4........ 3........ 2........ ahaahhhahhhaaaahaa!!!

I'm kidding of course. That is only threatened to the people who speak out about it. Silly me.
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Old 08-15-2018, 04:24 AM
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[in loud BOOMING, echoey voice]

Tax them all. Once the old Catholic money runs dry, the protestants have plenty more, being married with dozens of children and all.

Let all those who have found faith and understanding in all these guilty priests finally realize that a Ouija Board is cheaper, available in toy stores, on Amazon.com, and never passes a collection plate gathered by boys donned in dresses. The TV Guide and Weather Channel have always been more right. As a matter of fact, so have I and all other SD posters have been more right than this disgusting ancient drivel written for fools, cheaters and liars. Except about elections. Forget that one. Our bad.

May it be done, and I mean... done.

Aside: Dune just came on, and I even think the Bene Jeserits have a better and more realistic faith just because of the cool pain box and telepathy. Let's bring forth the next Gospel: The Book of Herbert! (Herbert would've sucked for an apostle name, I suppose.)

Last edited by Locrian; 08-15-2018 at 04:25 AM.
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Old 08-15-2018, 04:39 AM
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You know, people like Doctor Doom and Lex Luthor would not tolerate this kind of thing among their minions. Such people would get gauntlet blasted in short order.

When you compare badly, morally and ethically, to fictional super-villain organizations you are probably not doing well on those fronts.
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Old 08-15-2018, 04:56 AM
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One thing I've had to assume - with the Catholic church rapes, with Roald Dahl's stories of school, etc. - is that this sort of stuff happened to the parents of these kids and yet they sent their own kids back to those same places. So while the church takes full blame for failing to correct this - and likely has a long-practiced tradition of this sort of stuff from thousands of years back that makes this sort of thing likely to be endemic and basically impossible for them to kill from the inside - it's still worth pointing out that this all shows the basic monstrosity of man and our ability to pretend like nothing is happening and never happened, if the niceties of society dictate that we follow the line. All of the biggest evils lie on that, and yet everyone is constantly trying to believe that there's some sort of training or cultural shift that has or will change it.

It ain't so. It's a creepy world where women will get raped in the middle of a concert, with a crowd of spectators watching.

The gene for genial placidity is possibly the greatest evil of our species.
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Old 08-15-2018, 04:59 AM
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You know, people like Doctor Doom and Lex Luthor would not tolerate this kind of thing among their minions. Such people would get gauntlet blasted in short order.

When you compare badly, morally and ethically, to fictional super-villain organizations you are probably not doing well on those fronts.
Perhaps. I would think that Lex and Doom would hit the faithful first, then the outspoken like me, armed only with a laptop.

In that case, aside from villains, El-ahrairah may be an even better faith. Join my Owsla. We shall be glad to have you, and I know you'll like it. Hey, we breed all the time! Must be over 18.
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Old 08-15-2018, 05:34 AM
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I'm just going to quote what I said in the Cardinal Pell thread a couple of years ago.
Quote:
Fuck it, I'm at that point already. Seize all the assets of the Church, ignoring all the technicalities of ownership and asset protection, and distribute them to the victims. The true believers can go rebuild their church from scratch if they want to. We need a new Thomas Cromwell I reckon.
Seconded.
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Old 08-15-2018, 06:20 AM
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This clip sums it up nicely. (From Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri)

link
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:23 AM
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Thoughts and prayers.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:26 AM
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Thoughts and prayers.
Difficult to say a Hail Mary with a priest's cock in your mouth.
  #17  
Old 08-15-2018, 07:38 AM
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Difficult to say a Hail Mary with a priest's cock in your mouth.
A friend of mine was told that if she were in such a situation she should bite - hard.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:42 AM
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Yeah, a lot of stupid people say that about being raped. It's a weird attitude that the victim is somehow to blame for their rape.
  #19  
Old 08-15-2018, 07:47 AM
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A friend of mine was told that if she were in such a situation she should bite - hard.
...and probably get her head bashed in.
  #20  
Old 08-15-2018, 08:00 AM
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the gene for genial placidity is possibly the greatest evil of our species.

T h i s.
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Old 08-15-2018, 09:12 AM
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People just need to stay home on Sundays; their children are safer at home than in church. I think God will understand.
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Old 08-15-2018, 12:17 PM
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Recycled from the Sandusky era: What do Pennsylvanian priests and Campbell's have in common?

SPOILER:
They both come in little cans.
  #23  
Old 08-15-2018, 02:58 PM
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Has any priest ever been arrested and convicted and sent to prison?
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Old 08-15-2018, 03:03 PM
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Has any priest ever been arrested and convicted and sent to prison?
Yes.
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Old 08-15-2018, 03:04 PM
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Then let's get moving. Bring the whole sordid mess down.

According to Wiki, he was "diagnosed with homosexual pedophilia." It's a disease now?

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Old 08-15-2018, 03:43 PM
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The much larger problem is that Pennsylvania wasn't a breeding ground for catholic priest rapists. It's just one of the places that's dug deeply into the mess. There's not a doubt in my mind that any state or country which did similar digging would turn up the same horrors.
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Old 08-15-2018, 04:02 PM
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Apparently they misread that "suffer the little children" quote.

I think we need to rethink the statute of limitation on crimes against minors. It needs to be at least long enough for a child to reach adulthood, as it's possible the child will never fully understand how bad/illegal some actions by adults can be until that child becomes an adult himself/herself.

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  #28  
Old 08-15-2018, 04:13 PM
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The much larger problem is that Pennsylvania wasn't a breeding ground for catholic priest rapists. It's just one of the places that's dug deeply into the mess. There's not a doubt in my mind that any state or country which did similar digging would turn up the same horrors.
I actually do agree. 100%.
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Old 08-15-2018, 04:15 PM
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Then let's get moving. Bring the whole sordid mess down.

According to Wiki, he was "diagnosed with homosexual pedophilia." It's a disease now?
Well, pedophilia is considered a mental disorder, correct? The 'homosexual' part is troubling, unless they also diagnosis 'heterosexual pedophilia'.
  #30  
Old 08-15-2018, 04:50 PM
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And the Pope leads the way......

Pope Francis Silent About 1,000 Children Abused by Priests in Pennsylvania

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...u2o?li=BBnb7Kz
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  #31  
Old 08-15-2018, 05:01 PM
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And the Pope leads the way......

Pope Francis Silent About 1,000 Children Abused by Priests in Pennsylvania

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...u2o?li=BBnb7Kz
To be fair, he would probably want to read the Pennsylvania report (1000+ pages long) and do some investigation of his own before addressing the issue.

If he's still quiet in a month, then it's worth complaining.
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Old 08-15-2018, 05:03 PM
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I'll also add that the lack of most people to remember anything much past 2 weeks ago is the second great evil of humanity.
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Old 08-15-2018, 05:14 PM
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One thing I've had to assume - with the Catholic church rapes, with Roald Dahl's stories of school, etc. - is that this sort of stuff happened to the parents of these kids and yet they sent their own kids back to those same places. So while the church takes full blame for failing to correct this - and likely has a long-practiced tradition of this sort of stuff from thousands of years back that makes this sort of thing likely to be endemic and basically impossible for them to kill from the inside - it's still worth pointing out that this all shows the basic monstrosity of man and our ability to pretend like nothing is happening and never happened, if the niceties of society dictate that we follow the line. All of the biggest evils lie on that, and yet everyone is constantly trying to believe that there's some sort of training or cultural shift that has or will change it.

It ain't so. It's a creepy world where women will get raped in the middle of a concert, with a crowd of spectators watching.

The gene for genial placidity is possibly the greatest evil of our species.
After another story broke, I saw an interview with a late-middle-aged man and his very elderly father, who had both been molested by the same parish priest. The shame this carries was well described by the father, who said, "I was married to your mother for (50-plus) years, and I never kept any secrets from her, except for this."

On a related note, has anyone heard about the alleged abuse going on in the Shambhala Buddhist community, specifically the one in Halifax? While most of it seems to involve adults, if it's true, it's just as terrible.
  #34  
Old 08-15-2018, 05:18 PM
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To be fair, he would probably want to read the Pennsylvania report (1000+ pages long) and do some investigation of his own before addressing the issue.

If he's still quiet in a month, then it's worth complaining.
Normally, I would agree. But do you think the Pope was ignorant of this issue until the actual report was released?

We have a Cardinal who tried to get out in front of this.

Quote:
In a statement on Monday before the report was published, Cardinal Donald Wuerl, the former Bishop of Pittsburgh who now heads the Archdiocese of Washington, said the report "will be a reminder of the grave failings that the church must acknowledge and for which it must seek forgiveness."
"We are now in the midst of a new era where our communal bonds of trust are once again being tested by the sin of abuse."
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Old 08-15-2018, 05:25 PM
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And the Pope leads the way......

Pope Francis Silent About 1,000 Children Abused by Priests in Pennsylvania

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...u2o?li=BBnb7Kz
He should have the Church Police investigate. Nobody expects them.
  #36  
Old 08-15-2018, 05:38 PM
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Has any priest ever been arrested and convicted and sent to prison?
There is one archbishop sentenced to prison, but who is now serving the sentence under house arrest: Philip Wilson. He wasn't convicted of doing the child abuse himself, but of concealing child abuse while working in the Diocese of Maitland (now Maitland-Newcastle). Several priests from that diocese have been convicted of child abuse, and are serving or have served prison sentences.
  #37  
Old 08-15-2018, 05:52 PM
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Normally, I would agree. But do you think the Pope was ignorant of this issue until the actual report was released?
I don't know how well the left hand talks to the right hand in the Catholic church.

If you follow political news, for example, it's not uncommon for politicians to make the point that they discovered things through the media reporting that, one might niavely think, would have been general knowledge among their clique.

The Catholic church spans every continent on the planet and is dealing with wars, famines, and political diplomacy across hundreds of countries. I could reasonably see the goings-on of one city in America - in an organization that is institutionally constructed to hide misbehavior - not having had the reports that the police were all over and talking to everyone about child molestation make its way up the ladder all the way.

I may be wrong, but so far Francis has seemed pretty trustworthy so I'm reasonably inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 08-15-2018 at 05:54 PM.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:30 PM
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My brother was molested by one of the priests on the list. Another was the headmaster of the seminary high school where my brother also attended. So this hits home to me. The attitude was, we all know this happens just watch yourself and stay clear from the offenders. Nothing was done, nothing.
  #39  
Old 08-15-2018, 07:39 PM
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A combination of:

Victims that don't realize they were actually victims.
Those that do realize it think too much of the good things the priest does to make it worth their while to bring up.
When it is brought up to the pastor or bishop, the offender is reassigned and the victims can be told they were taken care of because there is a massive shortage of priests. It's not something that need be agreed upon by anyone, but that everyone is well aware of anyway. The church can't let go of anyone who actually was willing to become a priest and went through the training, because it's becoming impossible to find replacements for them. That's not to say that's the response of the very first person in charge of the priest, but at some point some Bishop or Archbishop decides they can't lose the priest and finds a new home for them. None of these people dare tell their superior about what they did. Bishops and Archbishops get their post by generally being good administrators, not by being the holiest. Most of them were like Cardinal Ratzinger, who as far as I am concerned was never Pope, and less were like John Paul II and Francis. Ratzinger probably resigned when he realized that the church needed someone more like his predecessor and successor than people like him as figureheads.
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Old 08-15-2018, 07:46 PM
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Well, it makes sense why the Catholics are so anti-abortion.

Sorry. Too soon.
  #41  
Old 08-15-2018, 07:54 PM
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A combination of:

Victims that don't realize they were actually victims.
Hmmmmm....

" The first five or six times the father O'Malley fucked me down the throat I vomited right away afterwards.

He punched me in the stomach over and over and beat me on my back so that the bruises could not be seen by anybody who looked at me wearing a short-sleeve shirt.

He told me if I didn't stop vomiting that he would tell my parents I was a bad student and he would throw me out of school. So I stopped throwing up and started swallowing. "

Think long and hard before you call bullshit on the quotation marks.

Trust me. Any child who is sexually abused knows full well that they are being victimized.
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:26 PM
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In a CNN article, one of the victims named Carolyn says that:

Quote:
"It's very lonely, especially when it's your word against God's," she said.
And this is part of the problem.

People see priests and somehow think that maybe they WERE chosen by this god because they are godly. They're the closest communicators with it, right? They should automatically be respected because... because? They went to school and studied texts, swore on an oath and this makes them godly? Why don't people do this with dentists and surgeons? We can see their work and they save lives and livelihood. Why will people still insist that those who obsess over ancient stories are above the rest of us? I don't see professors of ancient Sumerian texts as protected as priests. They take an oath to the schools they teach in.

This line of thinking leads to politics and funding. A priest that openly backs a candidate gives that candidate a big edge. And for what? Why? It's almost the same thing where when people put money in a collection plate, they're convinced god sees this and maybe grants them heaven access? There's no way that all the collections go to "poor children" or "building a new church wing". To this day, I don't see why palm readers aren't shown the same dippy respect. They're one and the same to me. And the priests are protected by ignorance and mythology.

Last edited by Locrian; 08-15-2018 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:44 PM
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Trust me. Any child who is sexually abused knows full well that they are being victimized.
Depends on the level and situation; my brother was 9 when he told me he didn't want to go see the footie with Grandpa any more because "I like talking about asses and tits but... with your Grandpa? It's YUCKY!", almost 20 years older when he realized that dear ol' Gramps had been committing sexual abuse. The abuse had gone on from age 4 to 9; at first all he knew was that he got candy if he dropped his pants and made his peepee hard when Gramps said (the abuse did not involve touching by other people or penetration).

Also, one of the biggest weapons of any abuser, and one in whose use they are often aided and abetted by the rest of society, is making it clear that it's the victim who's "being weird" or "acting unacceptably". "How can you complain about your [relative/teacher/priest]when (s)he's such a lovely person?!" Because bruises, that's why, but those bruises get explained away by "(s)he's such a clumsy child!" (might be less clumsy with glasses). Or because I was told I'm supposed to complain when someone touches me in a way that makes me uncomfortable. Or because I don't think it's right to scream in kids' faces. But alas, the adults are always right!
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:47 PM
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Trust me. Any child who is sexually abused knows full well that they are being victimized.
Do not trust this man. He's a moron who doesn't know what he's talking about, and his comments are dangerous and damaging to the survivors of childhood sexual abuse. It's extremely common for victims of abuse to not realize they were in abusive situations until well into adulthood. This is especially true when their victimizer is in a position of moral authority in their community.
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Old 08-15-2018, 10:53 PM
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I don't know how well the left hand talks to the right hand in the Catholic church.
Very badly. For every priest who is capable of saying "seal of confession or not, this needs to be acted upon NOW" there are thousands who haven't even realized that "say the sin, not the sinner" makes it possible to call up an alert that Something Is Very Wrong Over In That Corner without breaking the seal.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:04 PM
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Hmmmmm....

" The first five or six times the father O'Malley fucked me down the throat I vomited right away afterwards.

He punched me in the stomach over and over and beat me on my back so that the bruises could not be seen by anybody who looked at me wearing a short-sleeve shirt.

He told me if I didn't stop vomiting that he would tell my parents I was a bad student and he would throw me out of school. So I stopped throwing up and started swallowing. "

Think long and hard before you call bullshit on the quotation marks.

Trust me. Any child who is sexually abused knows full well that they are being victimized.
Something like THIS is a pretty cut-and-dried example of abuse.

Some sexual abuse is harder to identify as such, especially if it's a female perpetrator and male victims.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:06 PM
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Depends on the level and situation; my brother was 9 when he told me he didn't want to go see the footie with Grandpa any more because "I like talking about asses and tits but... with your Grandpa? It's YUCKY!", almost 20 years older when he realized that dear ol' Gramps had been committing sexual abuse. The abuse had gone on from age 4 to 9; at first all he knew was that he got candy if he dropped his pants and made his peepee hard when Gramps said (the abuse did not involve touching by other people or penetration).
What is "the footie"?

And 9 is awfully young for a child to, as you said, like talking about asses and tits, and at least to me would be a loud and clear sign of, at the very least, age-inappropriate sexual knowledge. Most 9-year-old boys still think girls are gross.

Last edited by nearwildheaven; 08-15-2018 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:44 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is offline
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It just occurred to me that I don't think I've ever heard of a case of sexual abuse involving a rabbi. I'm sure that people here can prove me wrong.
  #49  
Old 08-16-2018, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
It just occurred to me that I don't think I've ever heard of a case of sexual abuse involving a rabbi. I'm sure that people here can prove me wrong.
Here's one from Baltimore.
  #50  
Old 08-16-2018, 12:08 AM
psychobunny psychobunny is offline
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Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
It just occurred to me that I don't think I've ever heard of a case of sexual abuse involving a rabbi. I'm sure that people here can prove me wrong.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.87f5dbba3926
http://www.jewishcommunitywatch.org/...beverly-hills/

Last edited by psychobunny; 08-16-2018 at 12:12 AM.
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