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Old 09-10-2018, 02:32 PM
Lucas Jackson Lucas Jackson is offline
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Dallas cop kill innocent man

She claims she accidentally entered the wrong apartment thinking it was here’s. It’s the second time she’s shot someone. I’ll withhold judgement but I’m not liking how they are handling it so far.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7chi...-jury/4199894/
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:45 PM
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I just don't understand how you wouldn't realize in like two seconds that you were in the wrong apartment, and also how she got in there, unless presumably the apartment door was unlocked. I wonder if there isn't more to the story. The Texas Rangers are supposed to be conducting an independent investigation.
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:50 PM
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What the fuck is it going to take to fix American police?

I'm thinking, for every inappropriate police shooting, that officer's chief is executed. Not just the murders, but every single inappropriate shooting.

Last edited by DavidwithanR; 09-10-2018 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 09-10-2018, 02:55 PM
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Unless they had both just moved in, I'm struggling to understand how one mistakes someone else's apartment for theirs.

First of all, I don't care how tired you are, if you walk into the wrong apartment, it shouldn't take more than a few seconds to realize you're in the wrong apartment, unless by some amazing coincidence Mr. Jean had decorated his apartment identically to hers.

Second of all, if you actually are that tired, maybe opening fire shouldn't be your first reaction.

Either way, an astounding lapse of apparently all common sense and judgment. Who the hell gave this woman a gun and a badge?
  #5  
Old 09-10-2018, 02:57 PM
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I just don't understand how you wouldn't realize in like two seconds that you were in the wrong apartment, and also how she got in there, unless presumably the apartment door was unlocked. I wonder if there isn't more to the story. The Texas Rangers are supposed to be conducting an independent investigation.
Are we to assume that the Texas Rangers are suitably unbiased and disinterested in this investigation? Would folks from Texas care to comment on that point? It is Texas, after all, and it wouldn't surprise me greatly if the blue wall of silence and protection would extend as far as the state capital.

eta: it saddens me to re-read this and realize how cynical I have become about law enforcement in this country.

Last edited by Roderick Femm; 09-10-2018 at 02:58 PM.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:07 PM
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She claims she accidentally entered the wrong apartment thinking it was here’s. It’s the second time she’s shot someone. I’ll withhold judgement but I’m not liking how they are handling it so far.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc7chi...-jury/4199894/
Just to point out, the other person she shot was some clown who literally stole her Taser while she was trying to arrest him, and he survived. Hardly an example of wild gunplay there.

What they're saying in the local paper is that after a 15 hour shift, she parked on the wrong level of the garage, went into basically the apartment above or below her own without realizing that it wasn't hers, and that when in the apartment the lights were off and she saw someone in there (Jean) who she thought was up to no good in her apartment, so she shot him.

She called 911 herself and was apparently quite distraught about the whole thing.

That's not to say that she should have asked questions first and shot later, but it's not quite like some are making it out to be.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:11 PM
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That's not to say that she should have asked questions first and shot later, but it's not quite like some are making it out to be.
What do you think they are making it out to be?
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:12 PM
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Are we to assume that the Texas Rangers are suitably unbiased and disinterested in this investigation? Would folks from Texas care to comment on that point? It is Texas, after all, and it wouldn't surprise me greatly if the blue wall of silence and protection would extend as far as the state capital.

eta: it saddens me to re-read this and realize how cynical I have become about law enforcement in this country.
The Rangers essentially function as the state's version of the FBI with some tweaks, and at least in modern times are pretty much the most highly regarded and above reproach of Texas law enforcement agencies.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:13 PM
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Looks like they've charged her with manslaughter...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45468083

She also had another shooting incident a year ago; she shot somebody with a taser, who proceeded to wrestle with her for control over it. She backed off, drew her sidearm and shot him. I'm afraid the takeaway there for her was "screw the taser."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/10/us/da...est/index.html

Last edited by Ethilrist; 09-10-2018 at 03:17 PM. Reason: I like string
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:13 PM
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I can understand how it happened. She parked on the wrong level, which isn't difficult to understand. After that she was on autopilot to the apartment door, presumably the same layout as her floor.

She put the key in the door and it didn't quite fit, but the door knob turned anyway. At this point she became suspicious that the lock was tampered with, and the door was open.

So, she pulled her service pistol and opened the door. The occupant had heard all this commotion and was walking towards the door. As the door opened they were almost face to face and she panicked and shot.

It's a possibility. I'm not saying it was a prudent approach on the officer's behalf, but it's plausible.

ETA: Bump's post wasn't there while I composed this.

Last edited by Leaffan; 09-10-2018 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 09-10-2018, 03:33 PM
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The Rangers essentially function as the state's version of the FBI with some tweaks, and at least in modern times are pretty much the most highly regarded and above reproach of Texas law enforcement agencies.
Which begs the next logical question: Are we to assume that the Texas Rangers are suitably unbiased and disinterested in this investigation?

DavidwithanR, I don't know that we need to kill anyone, but it certainly makes sense, with sufficient evidence of questionable action, to try the officers like regular people. I mean, you can't try every cop for every fatal shooting because that would impair their ability to do their job (i.e. being a walking death threat to the Bad Guys), but you can certainly identify cases where some other option may have been more reasonable. Just present them to the jury as "Joe/Jane Snuffy, who has the legal right to carry the firearm under the circumstances" and see if the jury thinks they acted reasonably. This would still be a boon to the cops because we wouldn't also be introducing them as "someone who has training in identifying and deescalating dangerous situations", whereby their standard of conduct would be elevated well-above normal. It would also be good for the cops to get on board with something like this so they can show themselves to be policing themselves, and respecting the elevated responsibility that comes with the position. Otherwise they're just another well-backed street gang.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:02 PM
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She stepped over a bright red doormat, not like at her house, to enter.

Also, they have yet to release the results of her drug/alcohol test.

They are however pointing out that she’s a pillar of the community and an active Christian.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:05 PM
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I still don't see how her life was in danger. Too fast of a decision. Seems like you might pull back and do some yelling first.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:15 PM
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I still don't see how her life was in danger. Too fast of a decision. Seems like you might pull back and do some yelling first.
Texas law includes "castle doctrine" principles, with minimal duty to retreat.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:17 PM
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Every level of a parking deck looks identical.

I can understand someone parking on the wrong level. Walk through the glass doors, into the hallway, and your apartment is the sixth door on the left. Even the colors of the doors are the same on each floor.

Except it's not because you're on the wrong floor.

Usually that results in fumbling with a key that refuses to work in the lock.

Been there, done that. Several times.

It's extremely tragic that door was ajar or unlocked. One life taken and the other's future destroyed.

The off duty officer should have glanced around and realized it wasn't her apartment. She screwed up and will probably get prison time for that stupidity.

Last edited by aceplace57; 09-10-2018 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:19 PM
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She should have glanced around and realized it wasn't her apartment.
Is that you, Captain Hindsight?
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:19 PM
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Texas law includes "castle doctrine" principles, with minimal duty to retreat.
Does this concept apply equally to criminal matters like murder, manslaughter, etc. and civil matters? Like, if someone feels like I acted unreasonably by unloading my sidearm into the darkness of what I think to be my unlit apartment, and so feels they should be compensated for their damages caused by my reckless behavior, do I get to fall back on Castle Doctrine? Do I really get to say, "Hey man, it's my house and I should be able to fan my pistol anywhere, anytime, and at anything I please?"
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:22 PM
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Does this concept apply equally to criminal matters like murder, manslaughter, etc. and civil matters? Like, if someone feels like I acted unreasonably by unloading my sidearm into the darkness of what I think to be my unlit apartment, and so feels they should be compensated for their damages caused by my reckless behavior, do I get to fall back on Castle Doctrine? Do I really get to say, "Hey man, it's my house and I should be able to fan my pistol anywhere, anytime, and at anything I please?"
I'm not suggesting that she will protected by the castle doctrine. My point is that her knowledge of the law may affected her state of mind, and led to her shooting when she could easily have retreated. Perhaps the conclusion from this may not be that her mistake was egregious, or that she acted unreasonably under Texas law given her mistaken belief about the situation she was in; but that this kind of thing is a possible disastrous consequence of castle doctrine and stand your ground type laws that reduce the obligation to retreat.

Last edited by Riemann; 09-10-2018 at 04:27 PM.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:24 PM
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The off duty officer should have glanced around and realized it wasn't her apartment. She screwed up and will probably get prison time for that stupidity.
Not stupidity. Criminal negligence.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:26 PM
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Is that you, Captain Hindsight?
It's exactly what a jury will be considering.

It's going to be very hard to explain that someone didn't immediately didn't notice different furniture and decorations in "their" apartment.

It's a terrible tragedy for the victim and the officer. Reports say this officer is on a elite response team. Probably had a very promising future. But, she's got to face a trial for her negligence.

Last edited by aceplace57; 09-10-2018 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:33 PM
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It's exactly what a jury will be considering.

It's going to be very hard to explain that someone didn't immediately didn't notice different furniture and decorations in "their" apartment.

It's a terrible tragedy for the victim and the officer. Reports say this officer is on a elite response team. Probably had a very promising future. But, she's got to face a trial for her negligence.
You know, trying to paint it as a tragedy "for the victim and the officer" is pretty fucking offensive. She gets to face a trial. He has no such option.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:37 PM
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What the fuck is it going to take to fix American police?

I'm thinking, for every inappropriate police shooting, that officer's chief is executed. Not just the murders, but every single inappropriate shooting.
No, I don't think so. It is a stupid idea. If such an idiotic policy were enacted, it would only encourage chiefs of police to cover for their underlings.

Last edited by Scumpup; 09-10-2018 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:43 PM
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It's a terrible tragedy for the victim and the officer. Reports say this officer is on a elite response team. Probably had a very promising future. But, she's got to face a trial for her negligence.
I would think this was sarcasm if I didn't know you.

See, the way justice works is that if a victim's tragedy is attributable to your actions, whether deliberate or negligent, there are consequences.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:51 PM
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What do you think they are making it out to be?
Well, some around here (Dallas) are making noises about it being a racial thing, or cold blooded murder or a lot of things that it is looking like it is not.

I'm not defending her- my first question when I heard about it was "Why did she shoot first and ask questions later?" But I do think that without the whole story, it's also premature to go around saying things like that it's offensive to say that it's a tragedy for both of them without knowing the whole story.

The real question here is that we all think she probably should have had better presence of mind and tried to de-escalate the situation. But we don't know what was going on in her mind- we don't know what she faced on that 15 hour shift that she just finished.

And I also think that calling this a "police shooting" is inaccurate- she didn't shoot him in the course of doing her police job. I'm not sure what the right term is, but I'm pretty sure "police shooting" is misleading at best.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:55 PM
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I would think this was sarcasm if I didn't know you.

See, the way justice works is that if a victim's tragedy is attributable to your actions, whether deliberate or negligent, there are consequences.
I understand and accept that there are consequences for criminal negligence.

I fully expect the officer to serve prison time for manslaughter. Unless there is additional information that hasn't been reported.

Off hand, I can't imagine any possible defense. A plea deal may be the best option. That's the DA's decision.

Last edited by aceplace57; 09-10-2018 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 09-10-2018, 04:56 PM
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Old 09-10-2018, 05:15 PM
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... Reports say this officer is on a elite response team. ...
By Texas standards.
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Old 09-10-2018, 05:48 PM
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Something fishy about this. I should know.
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Old 09-10-2018, 05:54 PM
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Something fishy about this. I should know.
Nope. Just an overzealous cop who wandered into the wrong apartment.
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Old 09-10-2018, 06:03 PM
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Something fishy about this. I should know.
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Nope. Just an overzealous cop who wandered into the wrong apartment.
Check the username.

I heard an interview with his mother this morning. Very sad. I'll wait for more info before passing judgment, but I would not want to be in her shoes.
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Old 09-10-2018, 06:16 PM
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I hear she gave commands that she said he did not obey that compelled her to use her firearm. Who would listen to "commands" from a stranger bursting into their home anyway? For all he knew she was there for nefarious purposes.

Last edited by Ambivalid; 09-10-2018 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 09-10-2018, 06:25 PM
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They need to release the results of the drug/alcohol testing.

Maybe there is a simple explanation that’s being withheld. It would explain a lot of the accumulated mistakes.

Parked in the wrong spot, went to wrong flat, didn’t notice doormat, or the difference in furnishings. Reacted too quickly!
  #33  
Old 09-10-2018, 06:33 PM
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I hear she gave commands that she said he did not obey that compelled her to use her firearm. Who would listen to "commands" from a stranger bursting into their home anyway? For all he knew she was there for nefarious purposes.
That's my thought. Of course, he didn't obey her commands. If someone walks through my front door and starts issuing orders, I more likely to go for my own weapon, not just obey them.

After shooting her neighbor she entered the apartment and called 911 and ONLY THEN did she realize she was in the wrong apartment. There has to more to it than just parking on the wrong floor. I bet we'll find out something when the lab reports come back.

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Old 09-10-2018, 06:48 PM
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... I’m not liking how they are handling it so far. ...
In what way(s) would you like them to handle it differently?
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Old 09-10-2018, 07:20 PM
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They need to release the results of the drug/alcohol testing.

Maybe there is a simple explanation that’s being withheld. It would explain a lot of the accumulated mistakes.

Parked in the wrong spot, went to wrong flat, didn’t notice doormat, or the difference in furnishings. Reacted too quickly!
And, y'know... killed somebody because he didn't do what he told her to.
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Old 09-10-2018, 07:25 PM
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The rush to blame the victim in some way has been revolting (not on this thread, but in reactions I have read/heard elsewhere). Apparently, some people seem to think that it is his fault for (possibly) not locking his door or for not complying with the police officer's "commands" or whatever. Here's a guy alone at home, someone enters his apartment and shoots him, and he is somehow to blame? Oy vey.

And frankly, I would like to know exactly what the officer said to him, and how much time elapsed between her "commands" and shooting her gun. Mr. Jean may not have even really had a chance to react. He must have been utterly confused by the whole situation: a stranger in his apartment evidently ordering him to do something. Who among us would instantly comply in that scenario?
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Old 09-10-2018, 07:46 PM
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This story is being watched closely in central Arkansas.

Jean graduated from Harding Univ a couple years ago. Some of his friends are finishing their degrees. A vigil for him is being held tonight at the University.
https://katv.com/news/local/harding-...of-botham-jean

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Jean was loved by everyone on campus, most people quick to point out his singing voice. His friends listed off countless things they'll miss about jean - his leadership, his faith., "most of all, I'm just going to miss that big hug. that big Sub-T handshake we have, that brotherhood we shared. but at the end of the day, I know I'll see him again," said Graves. And his forever status with students and alumni at Harding: legendary. 

Last edited by aceplace57; 09-10-2018 at 07:49 PM.
  #38  
Old 09-10-2018, 07:56 PM
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Copy and paste the following and do a Google search on it:

"A Dallas police officer, who spoke with NBC 5 under the condition of anonymity, said Guyger was assigned to the department’s elite Crime Response Team and had just finished a 14-hour shift serving warrants in high-crime areas. When she arrived home, she took the elevator to a floor that was not hers. She then went to what she thought was her door, put the key in and struggled with the lock. Guyger then put down several things she was holding and continued to fight with the key when the resident swung open the door and startled her. Guyger believed Jean, who was wearing only underwear, was an intruder and shot him with her service weapon. It wasn’t until police and rescue units began arriving that she realized she was not at her apartment. Once realizing her deadly mistake, she became emotional and fully cooperated with officers, including offering to provide blood samples.”

Multiple news websites come up. But the text no longer appears on any of them. Why? Because the narrative has now mysteriously changed. Now, the door was not only unlocked, but it was ajar (which of course would creep out anyone). Now, Guyger actually went into the dimly lit apartment (which of course means she wouldn't see how different everything was). Now, Guyger shouted commands that were obviously unheeded (if only the guy had obeyed...). Now, she shot him inside the apartment (which of course she'd have every right to do, given that she thought she was in her home).

My guess? She and her lawyer have had a couple of days to figure out a less shitty story.
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Old 09-10-2018, 08:08 PM
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. . .

And I also think that calling this a "police shooting" is inaccurate- she didn't shoot him in the course of doing her police job. I'm not sure what the right term is, but I'm pretty sure "police shooting" is misleading at best.
Except in Texas, police are encouraged to carry a firearm when off duty, and can apply for pay is they perform police duties when not in uniform.

Quote:
“You still have the same authority,” explained Howard Williams, a former police chief in San Marcos and a criminal justice lecturer at Texas State University. “Just because you’re off duty doesn’t mean you’ve given up that authority.”
Quote:
Some departments, like Houston, have policies specifying that an officer can’t carry a firearm while drinking off duty, but rules vary by agency.
Even Off Duty, Police Have Wide Discretion to Shoot
  #40  
Old 09-10-2018, 08:11 PM
Richard Pearse Richard Pearse is offline
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She'd just finished a long shift. I'd be interested to know what her sleep/rest and work history were for the prior week as people who are fatigued make poor decisions. That's not to remove responsibility from her but it could point to systemic issues in the police force and the way they roster that leads to cops being less than mentally fit for work.
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Old 09-10-2018, 08:15 PM
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Multiple news websites come up. But the text no longer appears on any of them. Why? Because the narrative has now mysteriously changed..
I don't really understand what you think has happened here. A conspiracy to cover up and change the narrative among the police I can understand. But after someone spoke to the press, a conspiracy among journalists to hide that story? I don't understand how you think that's plausible. I mean, yes - I'd like to understand why and how a story that was up on websites has vanished, if that's the case.

ETA: what I'm seeing when I google sentences from that quote is that it comes from "activist" Shaun King, who is claiming it was an earlier report.

Last edited by Riemann; 09-10-2018 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 09-10-2018, 08:29 PM
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Check the username..
I'm aware of pescado.

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Old 09-10-2018, 08:35 PM
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Copy and paste the following and do a Google search on it:

"A Dallas police officer, who spoke with NBC 5 under the condition of anonymity, said Guyger was assigned to the department’s elite Crime Response Team and had just finished a 14-hour shift serving warrants in high-crime areas. When she arrived home, she took the elevator to a floor that was not hers. She then went to what she thought was her door, put the key in and struggled with the lock. Guyger then put down several things she was holding and continued to fight with the key when the resident swung open the door and startled her. Guyger believed Jean, who was wearing only underwear, was an intruder and shot him with her service weapon. It wasn’t until police and rescue units began arriving that she realized she was not at her apartment. Once realizing her deadly mistake, she became emotional and fully cooperated with officers, including offering to provide blood samples.”

Multiple news websites come up. But the text no longer appears on any of them. Why? Because the narrative has now mysteriously changed. Now, the door was not only unlocked, but it was ajar (which of course would creep out anyone). Now, Guyger actually went into the dimly lit apartment (which of course means she wouldn't see how different everything was). Now, Guyger shouted commands that were obviously unheeded (if only the guy had obeyed...). Now, she shot him inside the apartment (which of course she'd have every right to do, given that she thought she was in her home).

My guess? She and her lawyer have had a couple of days to figure out a less shitty story.
I think you may be right. Revising the story does sound like a severe case of CYA. What do police officers always say when they shoot someone? They feared for their lives, they identified themselves as police officers, the suspect refused to comply. Check, check, check.

I mean, I hope that Guyger is telling the truth. It won't make her actions less reckless, or Jean's death any less tragic, but at least she wouldn't be a liar. But if it turns out that she has concocted a fake story, that would be reprehensible.
  #44  
Old 09-10-2018, 08:38 PM
Lucas Jackson Lucas Jackson is offline
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In what way(s) would you like them to handle it differently?
To treat it like the crime it is. If you are carrying a firearm and are to drunk or tired to not walk into a strangers and kill them, you are criminally negligent. It shouldn’t take 3 days to decide to issue a warrant for her arrest.
  #45  
Old 09-10-2018, 08:43 PM
monstro monstro is online now
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I don't really understand what you think has happened here. A conspiracy to cover up and change the narrative among the police I can understand. But after someone spoke to the press, a conspiracy among journalists to hide that story? I don't understand how you think that's plausible. I mean, yes - I'd like to understand why and how a story that was up on websites has vanished, if that's the case.

A conspiracy of journalism? I don't know about all that. But yes, I'm baffled why 1) the initial narrative that everyone has been talking about for the past couple of days has been suddenly swapped out for this new totally conflicting narrative that is conveniently less shitty and 2) no one seems to be even talking about why the two narratives are different.
  #46  
Old 09-10-2018, 08:57 PM
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A conspiracy of journalism? I don't know about all that. But yes, I'm baffled why 1) the initial narrative that everyone has been talking about for the past couple of days has been suddenly swapped out for this new totally conflicting narrative that is conveniently less shitty and 2) no one seems to be even talking about why the two narratives are different.
If a prior news story has really been taken down from news websites, there will be an objective record of that, and surely some reason for it other than a nationwide conspiracy on the part of all journalists. All I can see so far is accusations from a Twitter "activist", which I'm no more inclined to accept at face value than statements by the Dallas Police.

Last edited by Riemann; 09-10-2018 at 08:58 PM.
  #47  
Old 09-10-2018, 09:03 PM
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Ambivalid Ambivalid is offline
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My point is that her knowledge of the law may affected her state of mind, and led to her shooting when she could easily have retreated.
So you're suggesting that she (may have) had the presence of mind to mentally connect the relevant legal code which would exhonerate her to deciding to the man? Buuuuut, she didn't have enough presence of mind to not "go home wrong"? Even after her keys shouted at her "wrong door stupid!!" and the red carpet was not what she had at her 'real' place?

Quote:
Originally Posted by monstro View Post
Copy and paste the following and do a Google search on it:

"A Dallas police officer, who spoke with NBC 5 under the condition of anonymity, said Guyger was assigned to the department’s elite Crime Response Team and had just finished a 14-hour shift serving warrants in high-crime areas. When she arrived home, she took the elevator to a floor that was not hers. She then went to what she thought was her door, put the key in and struggled with the lock. Guyger then put down several things she was holding and continued to fight with the key when the resident swung open the door and startled her. Guyger believed Jean, who was wearing only underwear, was an intruder and shot him with her service weapon. It wasn’t until police and rescue units began arriving that she realized she was not at her apartment. Once realizing her deadly mistake, she became emotional and fully cooperated with officers, including offering to provide blood samples.”

Multiple news websites come up. But the text no longer appears on any of them. Why? Because the narrative has now mysteriously changed. Now, the door was not only unlocked, but it was ajar (which of course would creep out anyone). Now, Guyger actually went into the dimly lit apartment (which of course means she wouldn't see how different everything was). Now, Guyger shouted commands that were obviously unheeded (if only the guy had obeyed...). Now, she shot him inside the apartment (which of course she'd have every right to do, given that she thought she was in her home).

My guess? She and her lawyer have had a couple of days to figure out a less shitty story.
I can't even feign surprise.

Last edited by Ambivalid; 09-10-2018 at 09:04 PM.
  #48  
Old 09-10-2018, 09:04 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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To treat it like the crime it is. If you are carrying a firearm and are to drunk or tired to not walk into a strangers and kill them, you are criminally negligent. It shouldn’t take 3 days to decide to issue a warrant for her arrest.
I'm saddened by the man's tragic death, and hope she's punished for her alleged crime if convicted, but I'm not sure I can get too worked up about a 3-day interval before the arrest. Government is mostly slow and incompetent. This (meaning the interval until the arrest) doesn't strike me as a particularly egregious example.
  #49  
Old 09-10-2018, 09:14 PM
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So you're suggesting that she (may have) had the presence of mind to mentally connect the relevant legal code which would exhonerate her to deciding to the man? Buuuuut, she didn't have enough presence of mind to not "go home wrong"? Even after her keys shouted at her "wrong door stupid!!" and the red carpet was not what she had at her 'real' place?
I'm not talking about complex legal reasoning about an obscure part of the law here. Do you really think that most gun owners aren't aware of the lesser duty to retreat under castle doctrine and stand your ground laws, and that it's implausible that this makes people more trigger happy?

Last edited by Riemann; 09-10-2018 at 09:15 PM.
  #50  
Old 09-10-2018, 09:17 PM
Ethilrist Ethilrist is offline
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I'm saddened by the man's tragic death, and hope she's punished for her alleged crime if convicted, but I'm not sure I can get too worked up about a 3-day interval before the arrest. Government is mostly slow and incompetent. This (meaning the interval until the arrest) doesn't strike me as a particularly egregious example.
Bull. If you or I had done what she did, we'd have gone directly to jail, do not pass Go, do not go on administrative leave.

Last edited by Ethilrist; 09-10-2018 at 09:18 PM. Reason: I like string
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