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Old 09-16-2018, 02:47 PM
Cartooniverse Cartooniverse is offline
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Border Agent arrested for serial murder: Trump pardons him in....what, 90 days? Less?

Trump will pardon this badge-wearing speck of shit. Anyone want to guess the timeline?

I say 90 days. Trump's capable of creating such media mayhem on an hour to hour basis that he can erase stories from the front page rapidly. Simple fact. So, give this case....60-90 days. Nobody will remember this guy.

Since he's the actual personification of Trump's Border Agenda, he'll be pardoning him. No way he'd let someone swing who is involved in protecting the borders...
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Old 09-16-2018, 02:52 PM
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Looks like he was arrested by the State of Texas. Federal laws don't apply in Texas.
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Old 09-16-2018, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Cartooniverse View Post
Since he's the actual personification of Trump's Border Agenda,
Killing prostitutes is part of Trump's "Border Agenda"? News to me. By all accounts Trump is quite fond of prostitutes.

I don't see any indication that this guy was targeting illegal immigrants. This article has more information. The two identified victims have Hispanic names, but then so does the accused. There's no indication that they were illegals.

I'm not sure what you perceive the political advantage of pardoning this guy would be, even if Trump could do so, which he can't. Murder is not (generally) a federal crime.

Last edited by Colibri; 09-16-2018 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 09-16-2018, 03:00 PM
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Oh, readily agree.

Pretty clear that no laws apply to police officers in Texas.

The Border Patrol agent case that's breaking today and in the last few days caught my eye because of Trump's adoration of his powers of Pardon. That coupled with his obsession with the southern Border prompted the O.P.

There aren't a lot of laws that actually are applied in Texas. Wonder how much of a magnet that is to nefarious sorts with a hot crush on law enforcement...
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Old 09-16-2018, 03:03 PM
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And, in an amusing and telling update, that good 'ole horndog Deputy? Well. He was gonna be innocent until proven guilt.

But his guilt was so tremendous that he went and offed himself in jail.

Good riddance to bad garbage.
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Old 09-16-2018, 03:09 PM
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Oh, readily agree.
You readily agree this Pitting is stupid?

Quote:
The Border Patrol agent case that's breaking today and in the last few days caught my eye because of Trump's adoration of his powers of Pardon. That coupled with his obsession with the southern Border prompted the O.P.
There's plenty to Pit Trump for without such a ridiculous stretch.
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Old 09-16-2018, 03:24 PM
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Killing prostitutes is part of Trump's "Border Agenda"? News to me. By all accounts Trump is quite fond of prostitutes.

I don't see any indication that this guy was targeting illegal immigrants. This article has more information. The two identified victims have Hispanic names, but then so does the accused. There's no indication that they were illegals.

I'm not sure what you perceive the political advantage of pardoning this guy would be, even if Trump could do so, which he can't. Murder is not (generally) a federal crime.
Not actually agreeing with the OP on this, but devil's advocating for a bit of clarification.

That they were not necessarily undocumented immigrants doesn't mean much to conservatives these days. They don't like the legal immigrants any more than illegal ones. Besides, even if they were legal, they were probably actually illegal, and have forged birth certificates. (Not what I believe, but something that trump supporters may very well).

Murder is a federal crime, it is just normally prosecuted at the state or lower level, rather than at the federal. If the state of Texas refuses to indict, it would be possible for the US justice department to step in with charges, something that would be less likely should a pardon be extended to border patrol agents "just doing their jobs".

The political advantage would be to his bigoted base. He hasn't thrown them much meat for a while, nothing real juicy since calling Nazis very fine people. Pardoning serial killers, so long as those serial killers are targeting the "right " people, could shore up the hate vote.
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Old 09-16-2018, 03:31 PM
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You readily agree this Pitting is stupid?
No.

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There's plenty to Pit Trump for without such a ridiculous stretch.
Not much of a stretch.
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Old 09-16-2018, 03:33 PM
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The political advantage would be to his bigoted base. He hasn't thrown them much meat for a while, nothing real juicy since calling Nazis very fine people. Pardoning serial killers, so long as those serial killers are targeting the "right " people, could shore up the hate vote.
Not nearly a stretch, as we see. His moves are so predictable. If he wasn't working so hard to appeal to his bigoted base, why has he been holding campaign rallies since shortly after he entered office?

Whip up the racist outrage and get re-elected.
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Old 09-16-2018, 03:44 PM
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Whip up the racist outrage and get re-elected.
Attempting to whip up anti-Trump outrage based on a ridiculous premise (as in the OP) may not materially help Republicans get re-elected, but it's still a poor strategy.
  #11  
Old 09-16-2018, 04:05 PM
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Trump will pardon this badge-wearing speck of shit. Anyone want to guess the timeline?
Congratulations on making yourself look stupid and Trump look good.
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Old 09-16-2018, 04:21 PM
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Congratulations on making yourself look stupid
True.

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and Trump look good.
That does not follow.

The main problem with OPs like this one is that it gives idiots like you a chance to say stupid shit like this.
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Old 09-16-2018, 04:39 PM
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I don't see any indication that this guy was targeting illegal immigrants. This article has more information. The two identified victims have Hispanic names, but then so does the accused. There's no indication that they were illegals.

I'm not sure what you perceive the political advantage of pardoning this guy would be, even if Trump could do so, which he can't.
The goal is to persecute everyone who isn't a white right winger; few if any people actually care about immigration, it's all about racism. The fact that the victims had Hispanic names is more than enough for Trump and his supporters to want them to die slowly. The fact that one of the victims was transgender will only add to their ecstasy.

Quote:
All five women worked as prostitutes; one was transgender.
All over the country there are right wingers cheering this guy on, I'm sure.

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If he wasn't working so hard to appeal to his bigoted base, why has he been holding campaign rallies since shortly after he entered office?
So he can have people cheer him and stroke his ego.
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Old 09-16-2018, 05:24 PM
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Trump will pardon this badge-wearing speck of shit. Anyone want to guess the timeline?

I say 90 days. Trump's capable of creating such media mayhem on an hour to hour basis that he can erase stories from the front page rapidly. Simple fact. So, give this case....60-90 days. Nobody will remember this guy.

Since he's the actual personification of Trump's Border Agenda, he'll be pardoning him. No way he'd let someone swing who is involved in protecting the borders...
Even if Trump could pardon him, I think you are missing the point of Trump and his "justice". This guy never did anything for Trump personally, he never helped get Trump out of a jam. So no pardon, even if it were possible.
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Old 09-16-2018, 06:10 PM
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Murder is a federal crime, it is just normally prosecuted at the state or lower level, rather than at the federal. If the state of Texas refuses to indict, it would be possible for the US justice department to step in with charges, something that would be less likely should a pardon be extended to border patrol agents "just doing their jobs".
Murder is not a federal crime, and a generic murder cannot be prosecuted by the Justice Department if the state in question refuses to prosecute, because the run of the mill murder is not a federal crime. So what you said is not completely accurate, even though it's very possible that this precise crime may have some federal nexus, and thus possible that what you said is true as applied to this case.

There are many specific circumstances that can make a murder into federal business. For example, murder of a Supreme Court Justice, or even a person nominated to be a Supreme Court justice during the pendency of their nomination, is a federal crime. 18 USC § 351(a).

Murder for hire, if the conspiracy was arranged by using the instrumentalities of interstate commerce (cell phones, Internet, land lines), or by US mail, or by interstate travel, that's a federal crime. 18 USC § 1958.

Murder in the commission of rape is a federal crime; as is murder by poison; by lying in wait; in the course of arson; in the course of treason, espionage, or sabotage; perpetrated as part of a pattern or practice of assault or torture against a child or children; killing someone to cause the death of another person; 18 U.S. Code § 1111. Murder on a federal enclave located in a state "assimilates" the state law into the federal and allows a federal prosecution for murder. 18 U.S. Code § 13(a).

There are plenty of other examples, but they all share a common feature: the murder has some nexus to an area of federal power or control.

Now, in the case we're discussing, I don't know the details of the investigation. If the Border Patrol agent used his federal job in any way to commit these murders, there would likely have been a federal charge possible. If there was rape or sexual assault involved, often the case when serial killers target sex workers, then federal involvement is possible.

But if he, on his days off, cruised around town, picked up victims, and simply shot and killed them, all within one state, then there probably is no federal murder charge that could apply.

There are lots of ways for a murder charge to be prosecuted federally. But don't make the mistake of thinking that ALL murder can somehow be prosecuted federally.

That said, as pointed out above, Texas convictions could not be pardoned by the President, although federal convictions could, so the OP's premise is, as was noted above, not a possibility. Trump can't pardon this guy when Texas convicts him.

In this specific case, of course, it appears that
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Old 09-16-2018, 06:25 PM
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There are lots of ways for a murder charge to be prosecuted federally. But don't make the mistake of thinking that ALL murder can somehow be prosecuted federally.
Thank you for that. I was making the mistake of thinking that all murder could be prosecuted federally, I just assumed they had no reason to, unless it was under a specific federal jurisdiction that made state jurisdiction complicated.

I suppose all of the times that I've seen murder taken up by the feds was because it involved one of those actually rather numerous and not all that uncommon (for violent murders) conditions.

Not that it really matters in this case, as I would not think that Texas should have any reason to not pursue charges, and I really did think the OP is extremely far fetched even before that.

As to a more likely variation of the OP, IMHO, would be a border patrol or ICE agent who, while on duty, kills some unarmed immigrants under obvious enough circumstances that they are actually charged with murder. I would think that in that case, they would actually be charged federally, and I could see that being the test case for a pardon.

I could certainly see that gaining quite a bit of support from his base, as such a person would be a hero to many of the more extreme bigots that are attracted to the trump experience.
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Old 09-16-2018, 07:02 PM
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Murder in the commission of rape is a federal crime; as is murder by poison; by lying in wait; in the course of arson; in the course of treason, espionage, or sabotage; perpetrated as part of a pattern or practice of assault or torture against a child or children; killing someone to cause the death of another person; 18 U.S. Code § 1111.
Huh. IANAL, but are you sure about this part? That list is far broader than I expected.

It appears to me that 18 U.S. Code § 1111 is merely defining what aggravating circumstances make a homicide a murder in the first degree (and potentially eligible for the death penalty) as opposed to murder in the second degree (for which the max penalty is life imprisonment), but is not actually setting out what murders are under federal jurisdiction:
Quote:
Murder is the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. Every murder perpetrated by poison, lying in wait, or any other kind of willful, deliberate, malicious, and premeditated killing; or committed in the perpetration of, or attempt to perpetrate, any arson, escape, murder, kidnapping, treason, espionage, sabotage, aggravated sexual abuse or sexual abuse, child abuse, burglary, or robbery; or perpetrated as part of a pattern or practice of assault or torture against a child or children; or perpetrated from a premeditated design unlawfully and maliciously to effect the death of any human being other than him who is killed, is murder in the first degree.

Any other murder is murder in the second degree.
So, if Alice kills Bob, I wouldn't think that automatically becomes a federal crime because she killed him by putting poison in his porridge rather than stabbing him with a carving knife, as long as they weren't on the high seas, or the Great Lakes, or in some kind of federal installation, or on an airplane or a spaceship or something like that. (And Bob isn't a member of Congress, and Alice isn't killing Bob because he's a federal poultry inspector, but solely as part of some domestic or personal dispute she has with him.)

I do see that 18 U.S. Code § 1958 does create pretty broad circumstances for federal jurisdiction over murder if Alice hired someone else to kill Bob (whether by putting poison in his porridge or bashing his head in while he eats breakfast). If Alice texts Bob "Sry abt last nite Why dont U come home and have nice bowl of porridge? " as part of her murderous scheme to pay Charlie to kill Bob, then I guess the feds really could press federal charges, even if no one crossed any state lines, and Alice met Charlie in a bar and never talked to him on the phone or sent him any e-mails about killing Bob in exchange for the bearer bonds.
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Old 09-16-2018, 08:02 PM
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Huh. IANAL, but are you sure about this part? That list is far broader than I expected.

It appears to me that 18 U.S. Code § 1111 is merely defining what aggravating circumstances make a homicide a murder in the first degree (and potentially eligible for the death penalty) as opposed to murder in the second degree (for which the max penalty is life imprisonment), but is not actually setting out what murders are under federal jurisdiction:
You're not the first person to be confused by that!

As the First Circuit explained, though:

Quote:
On first reading, section 1111 might appear to be unclear and open to the construction that, for first-degree murder, there must be both an unlawful killing "with malice aforethought" (under the first sentence) and satisfaction of one of the other conditions (under the second sentence) such as the commission of that murder in the perpetration of a robbery. However, the case law makes clear that the second sentence is definitional, that the statute was intended to adopt the felony murder rule, and for a stated felony the "malice" element is satisfied by the intent to commit the unlawful felony.
In other words, § 1111 is a federal felony murder rule: if the death occurs as a result of the commission of one of the enumerated felonies, it's a federal felony murder.

US v. Shea, 211 F. 3d 658 (2000).
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Old 09-16-2018, 08:27 PM
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Congratulations on making yourself look stupid
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Originally Posted by Colibri View Post
True.
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and Trump look good.
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That does not follow.

The main problem with OPs like this one is that it gives idiots like you a chance to say stupid shit like this.
QFT. obligatory lower case text
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Old 09-16-2018, 08:36 PM
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I think we're talking at cross purposes here. Shea was a case involving bank robberies, and bank robbery is a federal offense.

Again, you said:
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Murder in the commission of rape is a federal crime; as is murder by poison; by lying in wait; in the course of arson; in the course of treason, espionage, or sabotage; perpetrated as part of a pattern or practice of assault or torture against a child or children; killing someone to cause the death of another person; 18 U.S. Code § 1111.
It seems to me you're suggesting that murder by poison (or by lying in wait, or in the course of arson, etc.) is a federal crime, solely by virtue of having been perpetrated by using poison (or by lying in wait, etc.). I don't see how that's right.

What 18 U.S. Code § 1111 says is that IF a murder is a federal offense, and that murder is (among other things) committed by using poison, then it's a first-degree murder (and might be punished by death); as opposed to a murder that is a federal offense and that is not committed using poison (or any of the other aggravating circumstances enumerated in 18 U.S. Code § 1111) which would be a federal second-degree murder (with a maximum penalty of life in prison). Note that 18 U.S. Code § 1111 also says "Any other murder is murder in the second degree....Whoever is guilty of murder in the second degree, shall be imprisoned for any term of years or for life."

It seems to me that you're reading § 1111 in a way that would make any "unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought" into a federal crime (either first-degree or second-degree murder); even my non-lawyer self knows that can't be right.
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Old 09-16-2018, 09:20 PM
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And, in an amusing and telling update, that good 'ole horndog Deputy? Well. He was gonna be innocent until proven guilt.

But his guilt was so tremendous that he went and offed himself in jail.

Good riddance to bad garbage.
While I have zero comments about the Individual in question or the specific case (since I lack any background or, well, desire to fix that), the charge of super aggravated sexual assault noted in the above link does give me pause. Is there a Super-duper Aggravated Assualt charge? Or is it Ultra Aggravated? Or Most-est? Or Extra Aggravated?

Inquiring minds.....
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Old 09-16-2018, 09:59 PM
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Looks like he was arrested by the State of Texas. Federal laws don't apply in Texas.
Huh? Of course federal laws apply in Texas. The Texas coppers, though, are not federal agents; they arrested him pursuant to Texas law.
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Old 09-16-2018, 10:27 PM
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So he can have people cheer him and stroke his ego.
Like you and your ego and your post?
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Old 09-16-2018, 11:40 PM
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Huh? Of course federal laws apply in Texas. The Texas coppers, though, are not federal agents; they arrested him pursuant to Texas law.
Sarcasm is illegal in China, so I can appreciate the delicacy of your situation. Wink,wink, say no more.
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Old 09-17-2018, 08:55 AM
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I
It seems to me you're suggesting that murder by poison (or by lying in wait, or in the course of arson, etc.) is a federal crime, solely by virtue of having been perpetrated by using poison (or by lying in wait, etc.). I don't see how that's right.
No, no -- that's not what I'm saying, although in looking at my previous post I think I dropped a paragraph while cutting and pasting.

But to be clear: § 1111 is a federal felony murder rule. If there is a federal offense that results in a death when those listed circumstances are present, then it's a federal murder. That's not to say that any death by poison is a federal murder offense. Any use of poison that is a federal offense, and results in death, is a federal murder case.

Apologies for my lack of clarity.
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Old 09-17-2018, 08:58 AM
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OK, that makes more sense.
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:14 AM
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The main problem with OPs like this one is that it gives idiots like you a chance to say stupid shit like this.
I don't see it as a problem ...it let's us know who's wearing a dunce cap at their computer.


Secondly, it's really cool that there's another Ponch out there.

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The Texas Rangers, which is spearheading the investigation, declined to comment. DPS Sgt. Erick Estrada said Saturday morning that they are not disclosing any new information about the case.
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Old 09-17-2018, 10:17 AM
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OK, that makes more sense.
But even then, the reach may be broader than you'd imagine in the hands of eager federal prosecutors.

Carol Anne Bond was furious to learn that her husband's affair with her best friend Myrlinda Haynes had resulted in a pregnancy. So she reacted as any jilted microbiologist might: she stole 10-chloro-10H-phenoxarsine (an arsenic-based
substance) and potassium dichromate, used for cleaning lab equipment, from her job and coated Myrlinda's car door, muffler, mailbox, and front door knob. The intent was not to kill, she claimed (and prosecutors agreed) -- although the substances are toxic in high enough doses -- but rather to give her erstwhile bestie a terrible rash.

Myrlinda saw the powder, and though she did get a minor chemical burn on her thumb, she avoided any other serious effects, even though Carol Anne repeated her dosing 24 times over 8 months. Repeated calls to the local police produced nothing but the advice to call the post office.

Postal inspectors set up surveillance cameras, and caught Carol Anne in the act: on video, she opened Myrlinda's mailbox, stole a letter, and stuffed the car muffler with potassium dichromate.

Carol Anne was charged with mail theft, in violation of 18 USC §1708. No surprise there.

But she was also charged with violation of 18 USC §229(a): it is unlawful for any person tot knowingly develop, produce, otherwise acquire, transfer directly or indirectly, receive, stockpile, retain, own, possess, or use, or threaten to use, any chemical weapon.

This latter law is part of the Chemical Weapons Convention Implementation Act of 1998, enacted by Congress in response to the treaty known as the International Convention on the Prohibition of the Development, Production, Stockpiling, and Use of Chemical Weapons and on Their Destruction.

A “chemical weapon” is defined as any toxic chemical and its precursors, except where intended for a lawful purpose. A "toxic chemical" is any chemical which through its chemical action on life processes can cause death, temporary incapacitation or permanent harm to humans or animals. The term includes all such chemicals, regardless of their origin or of their method of production, and regardless of whether they are produced in facilities, in munitions or elsewhere.

In other words, prosecutors said that this was a federal crime because of an international treaty prohibiting the use of chemical weapons.

If Myrlinda had died, presumably prosecutors would have charged her with felony murder under § 1111.

Carol Anne was convicted, and the Third Circuit upheld the conviction. The Supreme Court reversed, finding that the intent of Congress was not to encompass "purely local crime."
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Old 09-17-2018, 11:06 AM
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But even then, the reach may be broader than you'd imagine in the hands of eager federal prosecutors.

Carol Anne Bond was furious to learn that her husband's affair with her best friend Myrlinda Haynes had resulted in a pregnancy. So she reacted as any jilted microbiologist might: she stole 10-chloro-10H-phenoxarsine (an arsenic-based
substance) and potassium dichromate, used for cleaning lab equipment, from her job and coated Myrlinda's car door, muffler, mailbox, and front door knob. The intent was not to kill, she claimed (and prosecutors agreed) -- although the substances are toxic in high enough doses -- but rather to give her erstwhile bestie a terrible rash.

Myrlinda saw the powder, and though she did get a minor chemical burn on her thumb, she avoided any other serious effects, even though Carol Anne repeated her dosing 24 times over 8 months. Repeated calls to the local police produced nothing but the advice to call the post office.

Postal inspectors set up surveillance cameras, and caught Carol Anne in the act: on video, she opened Myrlinda's mailbox, stole a letter, and stuffed the car muffler with potassium dichromate.

Carol Anne was charged with mail theft, in violation of 18 USC §1708. No surprise there.

But she was also charged with violation of 18 USC §229(a): it is unlawful for any person tot knowingly develop, produce, otherwise acquire, transfer directly or indirectly, receive, stockpile, retain, own, possess, or use, or threaten to use, any chemical weapon.

This latter law is part of the Chemical Weapons Convention Implementation Act of 1998, enacted by Congress in response to the treaty known as the International Convention on the Prohibition of the Development, Production, Stockpiling, and Use of Chemical Weapons and on Their Destruction.

A “chemical weapon” is defined as any toxic chemical and its precursors, except where intended for a lawful purpose. A "toxic chemical" is any chemical which through its chemical action on life processes can cause death, temporary incapacitation or permanent harm to humans or animals. The term includes all such chemicals, regardless of their origin or of their method of production, and regardless of whether they are produced in facilities, in munitions or elsewhere.

In other words, prosecutors said that this was a federal crime because of an international treaty prohibiting the use of chemical weapons.

If Myrlinda had died, presumably prosecutors would have charged her with felony murder under § 1111.

Carol Anne was convicted, and the Third Circuit upheld the conviction. The Supreme Court reversed, finding that the intent of Congress was not to encompass "purely local crime."
It would have worked, too - if it weren't for you meddling kids!

Regards,
Shodan
  #30  
Old 09-17-2018, 11:18 AM
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It would have worked, too - if it weren't for you meddling kids!

Regards,
Shodan
Holy shit.
I just laughed at something Shodan said for his intended reason.

Today is truly a day of miracles.
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  #31  
Old 09-17-2018, 05:10 PM
SteveG1 SteveG1 is offline
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And, in an amusing and telling update, that good 'ole horndog Deputy? Well. He was gonna be innocent until proven guilt.

But his guilt was so tremendous that he went and offed himself in jail.

Good riddance to bad garbage.
Good. I hope he botched it, and took a while to slowly and painfully strangle.
  #32  
Old 09-17-2018, 06:21 PM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is offline
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Kinda feel embarrassed for you that I have to ask...

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But even then, the reach may be broader than you'd imagine in the hands of eager federal prosecutors.

Carol Anne Bond was furious to learn that her husband's affair with her best friend Myrlinda Haynes had resulted in a pregnancy. So she reacted as any jilted microbiologist might: she stole 10-chloro-10H-phenoxarsine (an arsenic-based
substance) and potassium dichromate, used for cleaning lab equipment, from her job and coated Myrlinda's car door, muffler, mailbox, and front door knob. The intent was not to kill, she claimed (and prosecutors agreed) -- although the substances are toxic in high enough doses -- but rather to give her erstwhile bestie a terrible rash.

Myrlinda saw the powder, and though she did get a minor chemical burn on her thumb, she avoided any other serious effects, even though Carol Anne repeated her dosing 24 times over 8 months. Repeated calls to the local police produced nothing but the advice to call the post office.

Postal inspectors set up surveillance cameras, and caught Carol Anne in the act: on video, she opened Myrlinda's mailbox, stole a letter, and stuffed the car muffler with potassium dichromate.

Carol Anne was charged with mail theft, in violation of 18 USC §1708. No surprise there.

But she was also charged with violation of 18 USC §229(a): it is unlawful for any person tot knowingly develop, produce, otherwise acquire, transfer directly or indirectly, receive, stockpile, retain, own, possess, or use, or threaten to use, any chemical weapon.

This latter law is part of the Chemical Weapons Convention Implementation Act of 1998, enacted by Congress in response to the treaty known as the International Convention on the Prohibition of the Development, Production, Stockpiling, and Use of Chemical Weapons and on Their Destruction.

A “chemical weapon” is defined as any toxic chemical and its precursors, except where intended for a lawful purpose. A "toxic chemical" is any chemical which through its chemical action on life processes can cause death, temporary incapacitation or permanent harm to humans or animals. The term includes all such chemicals, regardless of their origin or of their method of production, and regardless of whether they are produced in facilities, in munitions or elsewhere.

In other words, prosecutors said that this was a federal crime because of an international treaty prohibiting the use of chemical weapons.

If Myrlinda had died, presumably prosecutors would have charged her with felony murder under § 1111.

Carol Anne was convicted, and the Third Circuit upheld the conviction. The Supreme Court reversed, finding that the intent of Congress was not to encompass "purely local crime."
Cite?
  #33  
Old 09-17-2018, 06:37 PM
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Carol Anne was convicted, and the Third Circuit upheld the conviction. The Supreme Court reversed, finding that the intent of Congress was not to encompass "purely local crime."
Did the SC overturn the entire murder conviction, or just the federal part?

(BTW, thank you for the info on federal murder charges. Most illuminating.)
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  #34  
Old 09-17-2018, 06:41 PM
kaylasdad99 kaylasdad99 is offline
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Did the SC overturn the entire murder conviction, or just the federal part?

(BTW, thank you for the info on federal murder charges. Most illuminating.)
You appear to have lost the thread somewhere, as there was no death resulting from the actions, and thus, no murder conviction for the SC to overturn.
  #35  
Old 09-17-2018, 09:21 PM
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The goal is to persecute everyone who isn't a white right winger; few if any people actually care about immigration, it's all about racism. The fact that the victims had Hispanic names is more than enough for Trump and his supporters to want them to die slowly. The fact that one of the victims was transgender will only add to their ecstasy.

All over the country there are right wingers cheering this guy on, I'm sure.

So he can have people cheer him and stroke his ego.
His name is Juan Ortiz. He is going to fry.
  #36  
Old 09-17-2018, 11:35 PM
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His name is Juan Ortiz. He is going to fry.

"Assimilated." ... Like Ted Cruz! /barf
  #37  
Old 09-18-2018, 05:20 AM
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"Assimilated." ... Like Ted Cruz! /barf
Ouch.

(I was just referring to the suggestion that Trump would pardon him, not anything else, and I'm sorry if my post was taken otherwise, as an insult to Mexican Americans.)
  #38  
Old 09-18-2018, 09:45 AM
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Cite?
Bond v. United States, 134 S.Ct. 2077, 189 L.Ed.2d 1 (2014).

Decision below: United States v. Bond, 681 F.3d 149 (3rd Cir 2012).
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Last edited by Bricker; 09-18-2018 at 09:49 AM.
  #39  
Old 09-18-2018, 09:46 AM
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Did the SC overturn the entire murder conviction, or just the federal part?

(BTW, thank you for the info on federal murder charges. Most illuminating.)
Neither. Ms. Haynes did not die.
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  #40  
Old 09-18-2018, 01:22 PM
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I doubt that Trump will pardon him. He has likely gotten bored playing with his newly learned pardon power and has thrown it back into the toy box.
  #41  
Old 09-18-2018, 01:32 PM
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I just start playing with my pardon, and when you're President they just let you!
  #42  
Old 09-18-2018, 02:57 PM
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Good. I hope he botched it, and took a while to slowly and painfully strangle.
"Suicide." Not that I greatly care if it wasn't wholly his idea.

Why would Trump pardon a shitbag CBP agent who liked to kill prostitutes? Oh, and I'm willing to guess that he's got a lot more than 5 bodies on his conscience.

But seriously, why would it occur to you that Trump would pardon someone like this?
  #43  
Old 09-18-2018, 03:11 PM
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But seriously, why would it occur to you that Trump would pardon someone like this?
Because Trump is the Nexus of Evil, not just a twittering jackass.
  #44  
Old 09-18-2018, 04:29 PM
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Update: He says his motive was to commit suicide by cop.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/police-det...ry?id=57871672

I just have no words.
  #45  
Old 09-18-2018, 05:45 PM
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It looks to me like, in the Carol Anne Bond case, that the federal nexus was not the treaty, but the mail theft.
  #46  
Old 09-18-2018, 06:23 PM
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Neither. Ms. Haynes did not die.
Ooops. My bad. Just re-read your post.
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  #47  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:36 AM
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Murder is not a federal crime... *snip*
Not disagreeing, but putting this out there:
UCMJ Article 118.
  #48  
Old 09-19-2018, 11:57 AM
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It looks to me like, in the Carol Anne Bond case, that the federal nexus was not the treaty, but the mail theft.
Nope. The mail theft was the predicate for the tampering with the mail charge. But the poison substance was introduced to the car muffler, and had nothing to do with the mail, and the indictment alleged a violation of 18 U.S.C. § 229(a)(1) for "possessing and using a chemical weapon," and separately charged two counts of mail theft, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1708. The acts related to the chemical use had no connection to the mail theft.
  #49  
Old 09-23-2018, 07:26 PM
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I don't see it as a problem ...it let's us know who's wearing a dunce cap at their computer.


Secondly, it's really cool that there's another Ponch out there.
I'm waiting to see what Inspector Harry Callahan has to say about it
  #50  
Old 09-23-2018, 07:28 PM
SteveG1 SteveG1 is offline
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"Suicide." Not that I greatly care if it wasn't wholly his idea.

Why would Trump pardon a shitbag CBP agent who liked to kill prostitutes? Oh, and I'm willing to guess that he's got a lot more than 5 bodies on his conscience.

But seriously, why would it occur to you that Trump would pardon someone like this?
A Trump pardon didn't occur to me. This guy can't do anything for Trump. And so, in the Trumpy world view, he doesn't even exist.
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