Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-19-2018, 08:00 AM
Urbanredneck Urbanredneck is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,580
What would you do to your 17 year old son?

If you found out he had attempted to rape a 15 year old girl?

Yes, I am referring to the Kavanaugh case.

But really. Lets say you are a parent of a 17 year old boy. You find out thru sources he did it, you confront him. He becomes angry at first but then breaks down sobbing that he did it and he is now really, really, sorry.

What are your options? I can only think of the following:

1. Turn him into the police which will mean a trial and him possibly serving time plus being required to register as a sex offender.
2. Talking things over with the girls parents and working out some sort of resolution where he agrees to apologize and never speak of this again.
3. Nothing. Besides smacking the boy around and vowing to never letting him out of your sight again and hoping this goes away.
4. Moving.
5. Sending him away to go to say a boarding school or to live with another relative.

What do you all think?
  #2  
Old 09-19-2018, 08:05 AM
Nava Nava is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hey! I'm located! WOOOOW!
Posts: 39,450
Of those, the one that comes closest to acceptable is the first but I live in a place where being convicted of a crime isn't a life sentence without parole.

The rest are different versions of "shove it under the rug and pretend nothing happened". The only one which even acknowledges he did something completely unacceptable is the second one and he gets off with an "I'm sorry", there is no attempt at preventing reincidence. Fuck that shit.

Part of my reaction would depend on what has she done. If she has already filed a complaint I'll collaborate with the investigation. If not I'll consult a family lawyer about the options available, but "shove it under the rug" isn't an acceptable one. We've had way too many milennia of that.

Last edited by Nava; 09-19-2018 at 08:07 AM.
  #3  
Old 09-19-2018, 08:29 AM
RitterSport's Avatar
RitterSport RitterSport is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,664
What an awful predicament.

I'd like to believe I'd do 1, but I doubt I would in real life. When it comes to my own kids, I think I would do almost anything to protect them.

I'd probably attempt 2, and if that got nowhere, I'd maybe try to get him out of the country. If I even got a hint that 2 might not work, I'd probably try to get him out of the country. I know it's not the right thing, but it's hard to get past those parental instincts.

I'm really opposed to sex offender registries -- they seem like additional post-sentence punishment. Plus, why single out sex offenders? I'd also like to know if a murderer or burglar moved into my neighborhood. The existence of these registries would help me (wrongly) justify to myself that I'm doing the right thing by getting him out of the situation by any means necessary.

WTF is 3? Why would I assault my own kid?

4 and 5 don't do anything if she or the police are pursuing charges.

OP, are you going to share what you would do?
  #4  
Old 09-19-2018, 08:39 AM
TruCelt's Avatar
TruCelt TruCelt is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Near Washington, DC
Posts: 10,843
I would find a licensed therapist who works with sex offenders. With luck, they could help me to identify a residential treatment program that could help him.

In parallel I would contact the girl's family and offer whatever resources I had to help get her therapy. I would also let her know what I've done about his problem, and that he is out of the city/state/whatever so that she can feel safe.

Along with all that I'd be contacting a good defense lawyer to try and make sure this stays a juvenile case so he isn't listed for life. Unless the treatment program tells me he is diagnosed sociopathic, then yes, I'd want him listed and controlled to reduce the chances he hurts anyone else.

Last edited by TruCelt; 09-19-2018 at 08:40 AM.
  #5  
Old 09-19-2018, 08:47 AM
Thudlow Boink's Avatar
Thudlow Boink Thudlow Boink is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Lincoln, IL
Posts: 25,579
I don't think I'm competent to answer such a question on my own. Is there a standard "expert opinion" (informed by psychology, etc.) of what one should do in a situation like this, that has the best chance of producing the best result for the boy, the girl, and society at large?
  #6  
Old 09-19-2018, 08:52 AM
senoy senoy is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,115
If it were precisely the Kavanaugh case. I would ground him, make him apologize and forbid him from going to those parties or hanging out with those friends again. I'd probably also talk to whomever owned the house about where they got the alcohol and work with other parents to prevent such things from occurring again.

I don't know that jail for drunkenly feeling up a girl would be appropriate and I sure as heck wouldn't trust our justice system to come up with something that was appropriate. God forbid that they try him as an adult and pretty much screw up his life forever. This is not to say that the behavior is excusable or not a horrible thing to do and I would certainly feel for the girl. Being put in that position is inexcusable and Kavanaugh did a terrible thing. We shouldn't ignore that point. Nonetheless, the purpose of punishment in my mind should be to change the behavior, not enact some sort of retribution. Obviously, the behavior in Kavanaugh's case did change and he became a productive member of society. I'm not sure that that would have been the case if he were tossed in prison for a couple of years and put on a sex offender registry. Of course, I'm also the guy that thinks that prison is never appropriate and that we should forgive crimes rather than punish them, so make of my opinion what you will.

Last edited by senoy; 09-19-2018 at 08:53 AM.
  #7  
Old 09-19-2018, 08:52 AM
EscAlaMike EscAlaMike is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Alabama
Posts: 439
I think this question is sort of irrelevant. Any 17 year old that would behave the way Kavanaugh did has obviously already been either ruined by his parents through coddling/enabling/spoiling, or has been utterly failed by them through emotional neglect. If the parents found out about the incident, they are definitely the types that will just try to pay the girl's family to keep quiet.

What would I do if it was my son? I would ask myself WTF I did wrong in raising the kid. I would tell him he needs to admit that he was a scumbag to both the girl and her parents, he needs to go to Confession, and then let the chips fall where they may. If the girl had already pressed charges, then yeah he needs to turn himself in.
  #8  
Old 09-19-2018, 08:57 AM
Annie-Xmas Annie-Xmas is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 49,214
I would ground the child, and make him do some volunteer work at a facility for released sex offenders and listen to their tales.

If he did it again, I would turn him over to the police and forbid him from having any contact with me until he straightened out.
  #9  
Old 09-19-2018, 08:57 AM
RitterSport's Avatar
RitterSport RitterSport is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,664
I know my answer is wrong, but honestly, that's what I'd probably do. I happen to have a boy around that age and I don't think he would ever behave that way, so this is a theoretical exercise for me.

However, it's not as theoretical as it would be if I didn't have kids at all. I'm just curious -- for those suggesting they would turn him in, do you have kids?
  #10  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:01 AM
wonky's Avatar
wonky wonky is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: DC area
Posts: 30,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by senoy View Post
I don't know that jail for drunkenly feeling up a girl would be appropriate and I sure as heck wouldn't trust our justice system to come up with something that was appropriate.
A great demonstration of how the words we choose can minimize sexual assault.

She described an attempted rape.
  #11  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:05 AM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: So.Ark ?
Posts: 9,870
He needs psychiatric care. I believe if he did it once he's probably done it twice or more. I would try to get him in a program. LE may be all there is to save him from himself and the protect the girls in the community. Sad, but sometimes a parent has to do the tough love thing. For the safety of all.
  #12  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:11 AM
Dangerosa Dangerosa is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Posts: 22,173
I'd homeschool until he graduated from high school, then kick him out of my house at eighteen with a high school diploma and no support from me - suggesting he join the military. He's already AT boarding school, and those places are not great for supervision. There is no way he's going to college on my dime. And as someone who has a now twenty year old living at home - there is only so much control you get over an adult child.
  #13  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:15 AM
Dangerosa Dangerosa is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Posts: 22,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonky View Post
A great demonstration of how the words we choose can minimize sexual assault.

She described an attempted rape.
Of a FIFTEEN year old girl.
  #14  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:20 AM
RitterSport's Avatar
RitterSport RitterSport is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Annie-Xmas View Post
I would ground the child, and make him do some volunteer work at a facility for released sex offenders and listen to their tales.

If he did it again, I would turn him over to the police and forbid him from having any contact with me until he straightened out.
What if she has already gone to the police and he's a suspect for an attempted rape? Grounding and volunteer work may be irrelevant.
  #15  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:22 AM
Sir T-Cups Sir T-Cups is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 8,185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerosa View Post
Of a FIFTEEN year old girl.
AKA A girl who is only TWO years younger than him.

I don't have kids and can't really comment much on the situation other than to say it's not like this was a 40-year-old man who did this and it's beyond wrong and creepy.

No, I'm not saying it's right. What I am saying is that the uproar of the offense is much, much greater in our older, adult eyes than it is in the eyes of 17-year-old who is going after someone in his own age bracket.
__________________
Want to see more of my adventures in Orlando? Follow Mrs. Cups and me @theorlandoduo on Instagram. And check out our blog too: TheOrlandoDuo.com
  #16  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:33 AM
Annie-Xmas Annie-Xmas is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 49,214
Anyone remember this thread?

Quote:
Stupid Privileged White Kid Gets 6 Months for Rape, Father describes it as "20 minutes of action"
  #17  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:40 AM
Beckdawrek's Avatar
Beckdawrek Beckdawrek is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: So.Ark ?
Posts: 9,870
Date rape or attempted rape is a serious problem in high school and college. We need to teach this out of these boys. Starting yesterday. Mothers/Fathers of young men are where it starts. Society can only do so much. Until the attempting rapist succeeds in his nefarious plan, the girl reports it. And by some chance she is believed. Then LE gets involved, that is. You cannot fix a problem until it's known.
  #18  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:47 AM
Ulfreida Ulfreida is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: pangolandia
Posts: 3,000
I think I would in the heat of the moment frogmarch him over to her house and make him get on his knees and apologize. For starters. Then he changes schools. Cannot ever see that "friend" again. Cannot drink a drop of alcohol. Probably get him into a rehab program for alcoholism. Must go to teen AA meetings. Must go to therapy.
  #19  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:51 AM
Urbanredneck Urbanredneck is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by RitterSport View Post
What an awful predicament.

I'd like to believe I'd do 1, but I doubt I would in real life. When it comes to my own kids, I think I would do almost anything to protect them.

I'd probably attempt 2, and if that got nowhere, I'd maybe try to get him out of the country. If I even got a hint that 2 might not work, I'd probably try to get him out of the country. I know it's not the right thing, but it's hard to get past those parental instincts.

I'm really opposed to sex offender registries -- they seem like additional post-sentence punishment. Plus, why single out sex offenders? I'd also like to know if a murderer or burglar moved into my neighborhood. The existence of these registries would help me (wrongly) justify to myself that I'm doing the right thing by getting him out of the situation by any means necessary.

WTF is 3? Why would I assault my own kid?

4 and 5 don't do anything if she or the police are pursuing charges.

OP, are you going to share what you would do?
Would I really do #3? No. But I would definitely chew his butt out and scare the crap out of him about just how serious this crime is and I know some fathers who are big enough to actually do it.

I would probably do a combination of #2 (talk to the girls parents and offer any support I can), #3 (scare him about how serious the crime is), and finally #5 provided I had a place to send him where he could continue to go to school and get therapy about why it was wrong and how to control his behavior.


Hopefully though beforehand I hope I would have drilled into his head about why this is wrong plus watch him so he doesnt get himself into a bad situation. Ex. Never be alone with a girl.
  #20  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:55 AM
Urbanredneck Urbanredneck is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,580
This is a good article in the Atlantic about a woman who had a similar experience:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...me-too/570520/

In her case the boy later came up to her with tears in his eyes and said he was truly sorry. She forgave him and that brought healing to both of them.
  #21  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:57 AM
Urbanredneck Urbanredneck is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
Date rape or attempted rape is a serious problem in high school and college. We need to teach this out of these boys. Starting yesterday. Mothers/Fathers of young men are where it starts. Society can only do so much. Until the attempting rapist succeeds in his nefarious plan, the girl reports it. And by some chance she is believed. Then LE gets involved, that is. You cannot fix a problem until it's known.
Along with that, very tight parental oversight. No 1 on 1 dating. Keep out of each others cars. No drinking. No being home alone.

Basically remove the chance for a situation like this to come up.

They are teens.

They do stupid things.
  #22  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:59 AM
senoy senoy is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonky View Post
A great demonstration of how the words we choose can minimize sexual assault.

She described an attempted rape.
She described a sexual assault. I guess we can quibble over terminology, but there are degrees and nuance to sexual assault. I recognize that it's popular to say that they are all the same, but are they really? This isn't to say that any sexual assault is acceptable or should be tolerated, but to pretend that there aren't degrees is disingenuous. This was not the act of a serial predator and I think that it is quite a stretch to think that it is. The fact that it stopped when his drunken friend 'jumped on his back' tells me that using the same word to describe this action and Richard Gillmore's actions is a mistake. If we want to get technical, in my state he was not guilty of sexual assault at all. He was guilty of first degree sexual abuse which is a minor felony. Depending upon her testimony exactly, he might not even be guilty of that and just be guilty of simple assault and/or battery depending upon which parts of her body he actually touched and whether it caused injury.
  #23  
Old 09-19-2018, 09:59 AM
wonky's Avatar
wonky wonky is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: DC area
Posts: 30,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir T-Cups View Post
No, I'm not saying it's right. What I am saying is that the uproar of the offense is much, much greater in our older, adult eyes than it is in the eyes of 17-year-old who is going after someone in his own age bracket.
Again what the victim described is attempted rape. Yes, I recognize that a 17-year-old boy may not see rape as a huge offense. That doesn't make it not a huge offense. And it doesn't make it better that the victim is "only" 2 years younger.
  #24  
Old 09-19-2018, 10:04 AM
wonky's Avatar
wonky wonky is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: DC area
Posts: 30,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by senoy View Post
This was not the act of a serial predator and I think that it is quite a stretch to think that it is.
You have no fucking idea if it was the act of a serial predator. Again, she described someone who got her into a room with his friend, turned up the music to hide any noises she might make and put his hand over her mouth to quiet her while he attempted to get her clothes off.

Do not minimize this behavior, call it "feeling up" someone as if they were on some friendly date, or act like he stopped because he realized he was going too far. No. What she describes is someone who would have raped her if he could. What she describes is someone who wanted to rape her and was trying to rape her.
  #25  
Old 09-19-2018, 10:34 AM
Urbanredneck Urbanredneck is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonky View Post
You have no fucking idea if it was the act of a serial predator. Again, she described someone who got her into a room with his friend, turned up the music to hide any noises she might make and put his hand over her mouth to quiet her while he attempted to get her clothes off.

Do not minimize this behavior, call it "feeling up" someone as if they were on some friendly date, or act like he stopped because he realized he was going too far. No. What she describes is someone who would have raped her if he could. What she describes is someone who wanted to rape her and was trying to rape her.
So getting back to the topic, what would you do if your 17 year old son did this?
  #26  
Old 09-19-2018, 11:07 AM
Sir T-Cups Sir T-Cups is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 8,185
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonky View Post
Again what the victim described is attempted rape. Yes, I recognize that a 17-year-old boy may not see rape as a huge offense. That doesn't make it not a huge offense. And it doesn't make it better that the victim is "only" 2 years younger.
Correct. All I was responding to was the fact there was an added bit of outrage because she was 15, which makes way more of a difference if the offender was 40 instead of just 17.

But rape is rape (even if attempted) and is not right at ANY age.
__________________
Want to see more of my adventures in Orlando? Follow Mrs. Cups and me @theorlandoduo on Instagram. And check out our blog too: TheOrlandoDuo.com
  #27  
Old 09-19-2018, 11:14 AM
TRC4941 TRC4941 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NE Minnesota
Posts: 715
This is such a tough topic. Of course, sexual assault, rape, sexual abuse, etc. is awful and should never be minimized.

But.....I was in high school from 1976-1979. When I look back, there were many boys that could have been arrested for sexual abuse or assault (and they were usually the BMOC's). Teenage boys would push the limits and girls were too afraid or shy to say "no" and just went along with it. It happened all the time during outdoor parties, after dances, parking at makeout spots. A lot of the time alcohol was involved. Back then it was just the way it was. (And no, it wasn't right) I don't ever remember any girls coming forward other than talking among themselves. The boys bragged about it in the locker room. I wonder now with the Me Too Movement if any of those men think about those high school days and wonder if they're going to get called out.
  #28  
Old 09-19-2018, 11:17 AM
elbows elbows is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London, Ontario
Posts: 13,796
My son would be headed, with me and a lawyer, to the police station. Where he would confess his actions and hopefully sincere regret.

If the girl wants to press charges, then we go from there. If she doesn’t want that, then it ends with whatever the police choose to do.

Either way, he’s going to the police station. That very day. He WILL be writing her an abject, unmincing apology, free of excuses like drinking, a party, bad environment.

If I firmly believe I have raised an upstanding young man incapable of such a thing, then I have been seriously, egregiously mistaken. In which case this young man does not need protection, what he desperately NEEDS is consequences.

Whatever those consequences amount to, he chose them by his actions. ALL attempts to shield him from his own bad actions, in the face of criminal assault, would be shameful parenting, in the extreme, in my opinion.
  #29  
Old 09-19-2018, 11:18 AM
wonky's Avatar
wonky wonky is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: DC area
Posts: 30,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir T-Cups View Post
Correct. All I was responding to was the fact there was an added bit of outrage because she was 15, which makes way more of a difference if the offender was 40 instead of just 17.

But rape is rape (even if attempted) and is not right at ANY age.
I don't find it worse for someone to be raped by a 40 year old than a 17 year old.
  #30  
Old 09-19-2018, 11:25 AM
Dangerosa Dangerosa is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota
Posts: 22,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by senoy View Post
She described a sexual assault. I guess we can quibble over terminology, but there are degrees and nuance to sexual assault. I recognize that it's popular to say that they are all the same, but are they really? This isn't to say that any sexual assault is acceptable or should be tolerated, but to pretend that there aren't degrees is disingenuous. This was not the act of a serial predator and I think that it is quite a stretch to think that it is. The fact that it stopped when his drunken friend 'jumped on his back' tells me that using the same word to describe this action and Richard Gillmore's actions is a mistake. If we want to get technical, in my state he was not guilty of sexual assault at all. He was guilty of first degree sexual abuse which is a minor felony. Depending upon her testimony exactly, he might not even be guilty of that and just be guilty of simple assault and/or battery depending upon which parts of her body he actually touched and whether it caused injury.
Its actually very likely the act of a serial predator. Guys who get drunk and rape their dates (or try to) don't tend to do it once. There are probably other women out that that this happened to, who are keeping their mouths shut in the interest of their own safety. Perhaps they too were drunk - and therefore think they deserved it. Perhaps he was "some guy at a party" and they don't remember his last name at this point in time - "it was something like Brent or Brett or Brad maybe, I didn't ever know his last name"

And, why does it make a difference? Should we put a murderer on the Supreme Court if he only killed one person? "Well, he isn't a serial killer"

And if he did it "well its only a minor felony" - we can't find one guy to fill one of twelve elite positions on the bench who hasn't committed even one minor FELONY? Everyone has sped or parked in a no parking zone - but I don't think everyone has committed a minor felony. Heck, in my state if he was convicted of that felony - even the minor one of sexual assault - he would be stripped of his right to vote - but we'll let him sit on the bench.
  #31  
Old 09-19-2018, 11:38 AM
senoy senoy is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerosa View Post
Its actually very likely the act of a serial predator. Guys who get drunk and rape their dates (or try to) don't tend to do it once. There are probably other women out that that this happened to, who are keeping their mouths shut in the interest of their own safety. Perhaps they too were drunk - and therefore think they deserved it. Perhaps he was "some guy at a party" and they don't remember his last name at this point in time - "it was something like Brent or Brett or Brad maybe, I didn't ever know his last name"

And, why does it make a difference? Should we put a murderer on the Supreme Court if he only killed one person? "Well, he isn't a serial killer"

And if he did it "well its only a minor felony" - we can't find one guy to fill one of twelve elite positions on the bench who hasn't committed even one minor FELONY? Everyone has sped or parked in a no parking zone - but I don't think everyone has committed a minor felony. Heck, in my state if he was convicted of that felony - even the minor one of sexual assault - he would be stripped of his right to vote - but we'll let him sit on the bench.
This is a question about what you would do to your 17 year old son and not whether or not that should disqualify someone else from the Supreme Court. Whether or not that should disqualify Kavanaugh is likely a fruitless argument to have as it has much more to do with your politics than it does with his actions. The question is how would you treat your son that did this. I do not see this action the same as I see murder. If it were my son, I would likely see this as a single event unless I knew this to be his character, in which case it's a different story. I don't think as a parent I would disqualify my son from a future Supreme Court gig due to this, but I'm his Dad, so that is hardly unexpected.

Last edited by senoy; 09-19-2018 at 11:39 AM.
  #32  
Old 09-19-2018, 11:46 AM
EscAlaMike EscAlaMike is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Alabama
Posts: 439
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRC4941 View Post
This is such a tough topic. Of course, sexual assault, rape, sexual abuse, etc. is awful and should never be minimized.

But.....I was in high school from 1976-1979. When I look back, there were many boys that could have been arrested for sexual abuse or assault (and they were usually the BMOC's). Teenage boys would push the limits and girls were too afraid or shy to say "no" and just went along with it. It happened all the time during outdoor parties, after dances, parking at makeout spots. A lot of the time alcohol was involved. Back then it was just the way it was. (And no, it wasn't right) I don't ever remember any girls coming forward other than talking among themselves. The boys bragged about it in the locker room. I wonder now with the Me Too Movement if any of those men think about those high school days and wonder if they're going to get called out.
I was in high school from 1998-2002, and no. I don't believe things changed THAT much from your days until mine. Kavanaugh's (alleged) actions are not normal teenage behavior. Normal teenage boys try to convince girls to do things with words, and possibly the most subtle of actions. They do not put their hand over her mouth and rip her clothes off of her. Guys in my high school that bragged about their exploits bragged about consensual things, not assault.
  #33  
Old 09-19-2018, 11:52 AM
AK84 AK84 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 15,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonky View Post
A great demonstration of how the words we choose can minimize sexual assault.

She described an attempted rape.
A greater demonstration of how lay people often misunderstand legal terms. No, she did not. Attempted rape, like all attempts, needs the specific intent to rape.
  #34  
Old 09-19-2018, 11:59 AM
Grrr!'s Avatar
Grrr! Grrr! is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,554
Do the girl's parents know? Because I feel like it should be her right to come out about it on her own time.

Since I have the luxury of thinking about this rationally from my recliner as I type this: Definitely, withdraw him from that school. And get him into some in-house treatment center if possible.

I have NO idea how to reconcile with the girl. I'm tempted to say write her a letter offering any support she needed. And inform her she will NEVER be seeing him again (Unless it's in court). Still though, I'm afraid even that might traumatize her more.

Ack! What a nightmare to think about.
  #35  
Old 09-19-2018, 11:59 AM
Hari Seldon Hari Seldon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Trantor
Posts: 12,080
If I were in the US, I would hesitate to get the law involved. Those laws were intended to apply only to poor blacks anyway. Since my kids grew up in Canada where underage offenders are treated much more humanely I might just report it to the police.
  #36  
Old 09-19-2018, 12:21 PM
Sunny Daze's Avatar
Sunny Daze Sunny Daze is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Bay Area Urban Sprawl
Posts: 11,038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hari Seldon View Post
If I were in the US, I would hesitate to get the law involved. Those laws were intended to apply only to poor blacks anyway. Since my kids grew up in Canada where underage offenders are treated much more humanely I might just report it to the police.
I have no idea what you just typed meant (poor blacks?!).

I would say frog-march him to the police station, but in this case I will say it's up to the girl involved, up to and including whether she wants to tell her parents. A few things need to be established: her physical well-being, what she wants to do, and that we as a family will support her no matter what she decides, including if she wants to bring charges.

I say this NOT because I don't think my son should face charges, but because I worked with victims of sexual crimes for several years as a crisis volunteer. The choice should be hers.
  #37  
Old 09-19-2018, 12:26 PM
wonky's Avatar
wonky wonky is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: DC area
Posts: 30,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK84 View Post
A greater demonstration of how lay people often misunderstand legal terms. No, she did not. Attempted rape, like all attempts, needs the specific intent to rape.
The very instant I intend a solely legal definition of the words I speak, I'll let you know by saying that I intend a solely legal definition of the words I speak.
  #38  
Old 09-19-2018, 12:31 PM
AK84 AK84 is online now
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 15,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonky View Post
The very instant I intend a solely legal definition of the words I speak, I'll let you know by saying that I intend a solely legal definition of the words I speak.
You mean the instant when you employed the name of a criminal act you mean?
  #39  
Old 09-19-2018, 12:32 PM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: the extreme center
Posts: 30,145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nava View Post
Of those, the one that comes closest to acceptable is the first but I live in a place where being convicted of a crime isn't a life sentence without parole.
Apparently you (as well as Hari Seldon) live in places where hyperbole substitutes for fact.

Bearing in mind I'm not a lawyer and I don't know what the penalties were in Maryland for the act Kavanaugh is alleged to have committed, back in the '80s), current Maryland law makes it seem as if it might qualify for a charge of fourth-degree sexual assault, which is punishable by up to a year in prison and a fine.

Laws on sexual assault vary from state to state, and if you have some sort of privileged status you might very well wind up with no prison time at all if convicted. For instance, CNN in the wake of the Brock Turner affair found 33 cases where NCAA Division I athletes faced criminal charges over sexual assault. One-third had punishment involving no jail time. In another, widely publicized case at U. of Missouri allegedly involving multiple victims, the football player in question did 4 months in jail.

If you want to cite a place where there's uniform harsh punishment for sexual offenses, try the U.K., where those convicted twice of "very serious" sex crimes get a mandatory sentence of life imprisonment.
  #40  
Old 09-19-2018, 12:32 PM
Grrr!'s Avatar
Grrr! Grrr! is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 15,554
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunny Daze View Post
I have no idea what you just typed meant (poor blacks?!).

I would say frog-march him to the police station, but in this case I will say it's up to the girl involved, up to and including whether she wants to tell her parents. A few things need to be established: her physical well-being, what she wants to do, and that we as a family will support her no matter what she decides, including if she wants to bring charges.

I say this NOT because I don't think my son should face charges, but because I worked with victims of sexual crimes for several years as a crisis volunteer. The choice should be hers.

In your opinion would it be best to reach out to the daughter? Or let her reach out to you?
  #41  
Old 09-19-2018, 12:40 PM
wonky's Avatar
wonky wonky is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: DC area
Posts: 30,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK84 View Post
You mean the instant when you employed the name of a criminal act you mean?
That "attempted rape" is used in a legal sense that has a specific definition in no way means that the phrase is solely a legal one. Just as "murder" has a legal definition and yet I and others use it all the time.

Like I said, I'll let you know when I intend the legal meaning. Don't you worry!
  #42  
Old 09-19-2018, 01:13 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grrr! View Post
Do the girl's parents know? Because I feel like it should be her right to come out about it on her own time.

Since I have the luxury of thinking about this rationally from my recliner as I type this: Definitely, withdraw him from that school. And get him into some in-house treatment center if possible.

I have NO idea how to reconcile with the girl. I'm tempted to say write her a letter offering any support she needed. And inform her she will NEVER be seeing him again (Unless it's in court). Still though, I'm afraid even that might traumatize her more.

Ack! What a nightmare to think about.
Upon reading the OP it promptly crossed my mind that I don't think it would be good to turn my kid in to the police if the girl doesn't want to press charges. I'm shaky on law, so maybe he should be prosecuted even over her objections, but I wouldn't want to do that to her if she doesn't want to. But if she does want to press charges I would do my damnedest to support her, up to and including doing my best to encourage my son to man up and take his lumps to the point of pleading guilty, and even testifying against him if he pleads innocent by relating his confession to me.

So the first step is contacting the girl. I like the idea of doing it by a letter. It would let me lay out precisely how far I'd be willing to go to support her, while also making it clear that if she wants to forget it and never hear about this again, I'd restrain myself to handling my boy personally without involving her with the courts.
  #43  
Old 09-19-2018, 02:25 PM
Qadgop the Mercotan's Avatar
Qadgop the Mercotan Qadgop the Mercotan is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Slithering on the hull
Posts: 26,471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beckdawrek View Post
He needs psychiatric care.
Do you have evidence that these sorts of sexual assaults are the result of mental illness? Most experts I'm aware of don't feel that's the case, and that the vast majority of such assaults are performed by youths without significant mental illness. Antisocial personality traits, yes. But that's not a mental illness, nor is it amenable to modern psychiatric treatment. Counselling, sure. But not Pshrink meds.

Last edited by Qadgop the Mercotan; 09-19-2018 at 02:29 PM.
  #44  
Old 09-19-2018, 02:29 PM
Urbanredneck Urbanredneck is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,580
It sounds like alot of you are going for a combination of #2 where you talk to the girls parents and find out what they want to do and #4, sending him away so he gets therapy and the girl never has to see him again.
  #45  
Old 09-19-2018, 02:33 PM
Urbanredneck Urbanredneck is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 6,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grrr! View Post
In your opinion would it be best to reach out to the daughter? Or let her reach out to you?
You know, that also would be tough because it might be the girl hasnt told anyone yet and if you talk to the parents and they didnt know, who knows what might come down.

It could be they would get mad at her. Who knows? Maybe she had snuck out of the house or lied and said she was somewhere else that night.

I would definitely take my kid out of school and send him away.
  #46  
Old 09-19-2018, 02:46 PM
ZPG Zealot ZPG Zealot is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,940
I understand the power of love. I would die for my husband. But rape under the conditions the OP has described is one of those things that kills love's ability to forgive. I know I would probably kill my husband for committing a rape. I imagine I would feel the same duty toward my son.
  #47  
Old 09-19-2018, 03:31 PM
MrDibble's Avatar
MrDibble MrDibble is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Cape Town, South Africa &
Posts: 23,721
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanredneck View Post
What do you all think?
I'd think "What a tragedy, that I no longer have a son" while I call the police. The fucker as described in the OP would be dead to me, and get what's coming to him. With me as a witness for the prosecution, given his confession.And I will not be paying for a lawyer for him, and after the cops take him away to juvie or prison, I will never have contact with him again.
  #48  
Old 09-19-2018, 03:45 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 78,504
If my seventeen year old son attacked a fifteen year old girl, I would do as much as I could to protect him from the consequences of the crime he committed.

If my fifteen year old daughter was attacked by a seventeen year old boy, I would do as much as I could to see him punished for the crime he committed.

This is why it's a good idea to keep parents out of the decisions made by the legal system. Nobody can be impartial about their children.
  #49  
Old 09-19-2018, 03:48 PM
Little Nemo Little Nemo is online now
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Western New York
Posts: 78,504
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanredneck View Post
Nothing. Besides smacking the boy around and vowing to never letting him out of your sight again and hoping this goes away.
Do you see "smacking the boy around" as a routine thing that can be dismissed as "nothing"?
  #50  
Old 09-19-2018, 03:52 PM
begbert2 begbert2 is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanredneck View Post
You know, that also would be tough because it might be the girl hasnt told anyone yet and if you talk to the parents and they didnt know, who knows what might come down.
Which is why I would try to contact the girl herself, not her parents.
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

Send questions for Cecil Adams to: cecil@straightdope.com

Send comments about this website to: webmaster@straightdope.com

Terms of Use / Privacy Policy

Advertise on the Straight Dope!
(Your direct line to thousands of the smartest, hippest people on the planet, plus a few total dipsticks.)

Copyright 2018 STM Reader, LLC.

 
Copyright © 2017