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Old 09-22-2018, 10:53 PM
j666 j666 is offline
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#WhyIDidntReport

I couldn't find an existing thread for this; maybe I'm not searching right.

I thought the Pit was the right place, so people can let go and curse if they wish.

Why didn't I report? I really did not think anyone would have done anything. I was probably right.
  #2  
Old 09-22-2018, 10:56 PM
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Apropos to whatdafuck?
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Old 09-22-2018, 11:12 PM
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  #4  
Old 09-22-2018, 11:30 PM
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Just saw a relevant headline in The Onion.

"Trump Asks Why Kavanaugh Accuser Didn’t Just Immediately Request Hush Money"
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Old 09-23-2018, 12:04 AM
kambuckta kambuckta is online now
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#WhyIDidntReport

When I was a teenager last century, sexual assault was actually par for the course. I know some of you younger folk will find this incredulous, but there really was no such thing as NO. You might have evaded an actual rape if you were lucky, but in the meantime, groping and other invasive practices were the norm at parties and other teen social gatherings, especially where alcohol and other drugs were used. Young girls and women were just considered part of the offerings.

No, it wasn't right. Yes, I am glad that the social mores are changing and that women and men, young and old, can refer such incidents to the LE authorities.

And I have at LEAST a dozen instances where I was an unwilling participant in sexual activity that I didn't report. It's not unusual for women to blame themselves for being unable to fend off the unwanted attention from horny young blokes. I mean, surely, if you're in a situation where you are being sexually assaulted, you're just asking for it, right?

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Old 09-23-2018, 12:31 AM
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The WhyIDidntReport hashtag trend (oh sorry coffeecat, didn't see you there).

I thought it wouldn't be taken seriously because he let me go when I pulled away from him and got out of there (and my own bf didn't seem to think it was anything much, so, you know, ). And I thought it was maybe somehow my fault for using (with permission) the toilet in an unoccupied student apartment where a facilities repairman was working because my own student apartment's toilet was out of order. I just hope he never got away with doing worse to some other startled young woman on campus because he happened to be alone in a room with her.

Last edited by Kimstu; 09-23-2018 at 12:33 AM.
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Old 09-23-2018, 12:39 AM
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#WhyIDidntReport

When I was a teenager last century, sexual assault was actually par for the course. I know some of you younger folk will find this incredulous, but there really was no such thing as NO. You might have evaded an actual rape if you were lucky, but in the meantime, groping and other invasive practices were the norm at parties and other teen social gatherings, especially where alcohol and other drugs were used. Young girls and women were just considered part of the offerings.

No, it wasn't right. Yes, I am glad that the social mores are changing and that women and men, young and old, can refer such incidents to the LE authorities.

And I have at LEAST a dozen instances where I was an unwilling participant in sexual activity that I didn't report. It's not unusual for women to blame themselves for being unable to fend off the unwanted attention from horny young blokes. I mean, surely, if you're in a situation where you are being sexually assaulted, you're just asking for it, right?

I don't mean to be a debbie-downer. But it's still happening to girls in high school and college. I get direct reports from my college girl. She and her girlfriends call it 'running the gauntlet'.
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Old 09-23-2018, 12:43 AM
kambuckta kambuckta is online now
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I don't mean to be a debbie-downer. But it's still happening to girls in high school and college. I get direct reports from my college girl. She and her girlfriends call it 'running the gauntlet'.
Yeah, I was trying to be optimistic, with a hope that young women (and men) might have moved past the terrible debaucheries of previous decades.

Obviously I'm wrong. Goddammit.

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Old 09-23-2018, 03:19 AM
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Why didn't I report? I really did not think anyone would have done anything. I was probably right.
It's sadly, consistently ironic how the people that scream about why didn't someone report an assault always go on to say things that make it obvious why someone didn't.

Aside: surely there's another picture of Blasey Ford the media could use?
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Old 09-23-2018, 05:11 AM
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Oh, I did report!
And my mother called me a liar. If the same teacher hadn't assaulted 11 other kids in the same day, nothing would have been done other than me getting a verbal lashing on lying. Because, you see, every time I had any kind of problem with a person in a position of Authority, I was clearly lying!
Then I spent the next 5 or 6 years getting random people telling me how impressed they had been at how calmly my parents had dealt with the whole thing. Nevermind that Dad never knew I was one of the accusers (Mom having pushed the notion that no names should be named) and that Mom was just happily convinced that we all lied. It took her 30 years to understand that yes, the accusations against that teacher were real. I have no idea how could she think it was more logical to believe that 12 kids who didn't attend the same class, have the same groups of friends and who in a couple of cases were known to be on the indifference side of hating each other's guts had come up with the notion of accusing the new teacher of doing something we didn't even know was possible! (Hey, we were sheltered kids; we knew there was such a thing as "people touching you wrong" but we had no idea that could include teachers).

So yeah, next few times I didn't report it to the people who officially were supposed to be in charge. What the fuck for?

Oh, and then there was that time years later that I tried to ask for help because Grandpa was... shall we say, not so much overstepping my boundaries as trying to polevault them? And Mom's response was "if your father hears a single word of this you won't set foot in my house again!" "B..." "You will never see your father or your brothers again. Your grandfather is like this, deal." OK. I dealt!

And to anybody asking "but why did you go to your mother"? One, she was the person in charge of raising us (I didn't know this at the time, but at one point she'd threatened with getting an annulment if Dad tried to oppose her views on child raising in public; hey, she was the one with the teaching degree). Two, that time with the teacher, she's the parent who was home when I got there. And three, for Granddad? The mantra had always been "conflicts with each side of the family go to the parent from that side". So, call it 18 years of conditioning, excuse me, education by a woman who shouldn't ever have been allowed to either become a teacher or have children.

And that time two people tried to get me into a car. Rental plates. I mean, maybe there wouldn't have been many red Ibizas with rental plates in Barcelona, but with that kind of experience and no record of the actual plates, would you have gone to the cops? What for?

And... and... and...

What the fuck for?
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Old 09-23-2018, 05:48 AM
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I did when I was 14. I reported the rape to the small town sheriff, and was told "You hang out with welfare families. Better you than one of our decent girls." Then he said his father hunts with the county judge, best to keep your mouth shut. I did for 42 years. Every day for the next year and a half I had to face him and his smirking, taunting buddies in school. Until the day I turned 16 and could legally quit. I quit school and moved away from that cesspool of a town.
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Old 09-23-2018, 06:50 AM
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Thanks, my bubble was showing.

I should have done something, even if it just meant the next person might have been believed. But then I hear those stories of people who did this for decades, or got light sentences lest their lives be ruined, and accept that it might not have mattered. Not to imply my life has been ruined.
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:29 AM
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I have no love for Kavanaugh. And I doubt if I could ever be realistically accused of what he has been. But I can certainly see, especially in the passage of time, a mild attempt at sexual persuasion morphed into a brutal attack in someone's mind, whether intentionally skewed or not. Memory isn't perfect and confabulation abounds.
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:40 AM
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I have no love for Kavanaugh. And I doubt if I could ever be realistically accused of what he has been. But I can certainly see, especially in the passage of time, a mild attempt at sexual persuasion morphed into a brutal attack in someone's mind, whether intentionally skewed or not. Memory isn't perfect and confabulation abounds.
Fuck off. This thread is not about you or what you think of the Kavanaugh situation.
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:48 AM
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Because he was my ex-father-in-law, my kids' grandfather, and the shit show that would have ensued wasn't worth it. It wasn't rape, just incredibly creepy assault. I never saw him again.
  #16  
Old 09-23-2018, 08:27 AM
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Because I was embarrassed. And I still got a B in the course. My parents scolded me a little bit because given my proficiency in the subject and my intended career path, I should’ve gotten an A. Like I did every other semester.

And I’m sure if I had told anyone that my teacher had told me that there was no way he was giving straight A’s to someone that refused to sleep with him, he would’ve claimed he was joking. And he would’ve found some deficiencies in my course work to justify the lower grade. And I would’ve looked ridiculous and “full of myself” for making a big deal about getting a B instead of an A.

***********************************************************

Because we were joking around and, to be honest, it didn’t bother me that much. I think I even laughed. And I considered the guy to be a friend and I didn’t want to hurt him or his career. He was a celebrity, after all. But years later when all these other women claimed he did the exact same thing to them, I KNEW they were telling the truth and that he was lying. And no one believed them. So I decided to speak out.

The first one is true. The second one isn’t but it’s something I’ve thought about because the incident did happen ( he came up behind me at an event and grabbed and squeezed my breasts )and while I’m not going to publicly revisit it out of nowhere, if other women came forward and were disbelieved, I’d speak out.

Last edited by Ann Hedonia; 09-23-2018 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:29 AM
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Oh, I did report!
And my mother called me a liar. If the same teacher hadn't assaulted 11 other kids in the same day, nothing would have been done other than me getting a verbal lashing on lying. Because, you see, every time I had any kind of problem with a person in a position of Authority, I was clearly lying!
Then I spent the next 5 or 6 years getting random people telling me how impressed they had been at how calmly my parents had dealt with the whole thing. Nevermind that Dad never knew I was one of the accusers (Mom having pushed the notion that no names should be named) and that Mom was just happily convinced that we all lied. It took her 30 years to understand that yes, the accusations against that teacher were real. I have no idea how could she think it was more logical to believe that 12 kids who didn't attend the same class, have the same groups of friends and who in a couple of cases were known to be on the indifference side of hating each other's guts had come up with the notion of accusing the new teacher of doing something we didn't even know was possible! (Hey, we were sheltered kids; we knew there was such a thing as "people touching you wrong" but we had no idea that could include teachers).

So yeah, next few times I didn't report it to the people who officially were supposed to be in charge. What the fuck for?

Oh, and then there was that time years later that I tried to ask for help because Grandpa was... shall we say, not so much overstepping my boundaries as trying to polevault them? And Mom's response was "if your father hears a single word of this you won't set foot in my house again!" "B..." "You will never see your father or your brothers again. Your grandfather is like this, deal." OK. I dealt!

And to anybody asking "but why did you go to your mother"? One, she was the person in charge of raising us (I didn't know this at the time, but at one point she'd threatened with getting an annulment if Dad tried to oppose her views on child raising in public; hey, she was the one with the teaching degree). Two, that time with the teacher, she's the parent who was home when I got there. And three, for Granddad? The mantra had always been "conflicts with each side of the family go to the parent from that side". So, call it 18 years of conditioning, excuse me, education by a woman who shouldn't ever have been allowed to either become a teacher or have children.

And that time two people tried to get me into a car. Rental plates. I mean, maybe there wouldn't have been many red Ibizas with rental plates in Barcelona, but with that kind of experience and no record of the actual plates, would you have gone to the cops? What for?

And... and... and...

What the fuck for?
And me. I reported at 11. To Mom of course. Who called me a liar and blamed me. So I never reported again, not even when my Uncle pinned me up against a door and felt me up, my teacher always asked me to join him on his side of the desk so his hands could wander under my skirt, my granddad (who I adored) grabbed my baby boobs at probably 13, and never ever mentioned my father's visits to my bedroom when she was away. There are many reasons we don't report, but if the first one gets you, a little girl, in trouble, you will probably never report again.
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:50 AM
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Why I didn’t tell about the two relatives: Because I thought one might kill me. And because the second one was my only “ally” in the hideousness that was my family. I didn't tell on him because I thought I needed him to protect me from others.

When people did find out, it was way, way worse. The shame of people knowing was just soul crushing.

Why I didn't tell about the four different family friends that groped me to varying degrees - some very violent: Because this was just normal shit I knew I had to put up with.

Why my sister and I didn’t tell about the man who exposed himself to us when we were five and six years old: Because… I don’t exactly know, but neither one of us said anything to each other or anyone else, ever.

I can tell you this, I was five years old for the last one and I remember it VERY vividly. It wasn’t violent, but it was traumatic.
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:54 AM
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... if the first one gets you, a little girl, in trouble, you will probably never report again.
Or a little boy
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Originally Posted by Ann Hedonia View Post
... if other women came forward and were disbelieved, I’d speak out.
I reported a coworker for something else - not sexual assault or harassment - and got the standard "There's really nothing we can do ..." response, and I said, "You can listen to the next person who reports it." I don't think they will, but I feel less of a spineless fucking coward.
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Fuck off. This thread is not about you or what you think of the Kavanaugh situation.
Thank you. A grand total of 12 posts before someone felt the need to try to flip the conversation, FFS.

This thread is intended for people who have been sexually assaulted to explain why they did not report, for those who did report to describe the results, and to fight the ignorance of those who have never been assaulted.

If you haven't been assaulted: Stop. Listen. Think. Thank you.
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:57 AM
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Because I figured, on some level, it was my fault.
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:19 AM
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Way, way back, when so many kids were sticking flowers in their hair and running away to San Francisco. Knew a guy who was active in the free clinic stuff, trying to cope with the massive flow. Who wondered why so many more girls than boys. Well, maybe now we know. For the boys, it was running to something, free love, rock 'n roll. For the girls, running from something.

Daddy. Uncle Fred.
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:30 AM
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I have no love for Kavanaugh. And I doubt if I could ever be realistically accused of what he has been. But I can certainly see, especially in the passage of time, a mild attempt at sexual persuasion morphed into a brutal attack in someone's mind, whether intentionally skewed or not. Memory isn't perfect and confabulation abounds.
Mild is "you wanna fool around?". Grabbing and holding down is NOT mild or "persuasion".
  #23  
Old 09-23-2018, 09:36 AM
Modesty Blaise Modesty Blaise is offline
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It seems to me that what is happening with women in this country right now is that many, many, many of us are having flashbacks and suffering real trauma because of the treatment of Blasey Ford.

It’s obvious that many men, especially conservative men, don’t get it and don’t want to get it so they never will. It’s depressing.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:06 AM
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Check your closet for shoes appropriate for ass-kicking. Put 'em on.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:29 AM
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Mild is "you wanna fool around?". Grabbing and holding down is NOT mild or "persuasion".
Do you think memories of exact dialogue and critical actions are perfect after 35 years? By either party? You're putting an awful lot of weight on something that may be marginally accurate.

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Fuck off. This thread is not about you or what you think of the Kavanaugh situation.
Thank you for your polite and well-reasoned response. Unfortunately, this thread is indeed about it. What do you think started this argument, the man in the moon? I suggested that in that particular case, there may be extenuating and unknown circumstances due to many factors; someone who "did not report" may be subject to the same.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:37 AM
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Do you think memories of exact dialogue and critical actions are perfect after 35 years? By either party? You're putting an awful lot of weight on something that may be marginally accurate.

Thank you for your polite and well-reasoned response. Unfortunately, this thread is indeed about it. What do you think started this argument, the man in the moon? I suggested that in that particular case, there may be extenuating and unknown circumstances due to many factors; someone who "did not report" may be subject to the same.
The OP seems to disagree with your assessment that this thread is about you and your thoughts about Kavanaugh.

Quote:
Thank you. A grand total of 12 posts before someone felt the need to try to flip the conversation, FFS.

This thread is intended for people who have been sexually assaulted to explain why they did not report, for those who did report to describe the results, and to fight the ignorance of those who have never been assaulted.

If you haven't been assaulted: Stop. Listen. Think. Thank you.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:39 AM
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Kavanaugh's wasn't the first case an accusation's first dismissal is "oh yeah, so why didn't she report it back then?" There have even been cases where people have said that even though the attack had in fact been reported; in cases where multiple people had reported multiple attacks. It's merely a case that's now news, but the argument is about as old as "oh yeah? So what was she wearing?"
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:40 AM
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Because I was afraid of what he'd do if I told anyone.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:13 AM
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This thread is intended for people who have been sexually assaulted to explain why they did not report, for those who did report to describe the results, and to fight the ignorance of those who have never been assaulted.
So you don't want to consider WHY someone may not have reported? Do you think collecting anecdotes is the same as collecting data? Or do you just want short stories with no validity so you have an excuse to weep, but not a reason?
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:14 AM
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Which time?

The time a neighbor's father hoisted me onto his lap and fondled my genitals? I was about 5-6 years old. I reported. My parents told me, "Stay away from that man."

The time a Salt Lake City police officer, a neighbor, offered to take me on a ride-along, then spent the entire evening grabbing at my breasts and genital area? I was 12 years old. I stuck as close to the guy's partner as I could to avoid the horrible touching, and his partner was clearly aware of what was happening yet did nothing affirmative to protect me. Good Mormons. Still, I reported. My parents told me, "He's a cop. There's nothing we can do."

The time I drank too much at a party, went to a private bedroom alone to sleep it off and awoke with my clothing half off from the drunk who was attempting to rape me and my friend physically pulling the guy off me so we could escape? I was 13 and in foster care. By then I had learned: Don't bother to report.

The time my father's closest (married) friend stalked me at high school because he had a crush on me and played grab-ass every chance he got? I was 14, and I reported. It ruined the friendship between my dad and this man, but that was the extent of the consequences for his sexual assault.

The time a drunken fellow knocked on my door in the middle of the night looking for his friend, whose girlfriend was my former roommate? I was 21 and made the stupid mistake of opening the door. He pushed his way in and clearly had rape on his mind. Grabbed my arm and left bruises. Tried to kiss me. I didn't know this guy from anyone. I was so angry, I backed him down and got him out, then fell apart. Didn't report. I mean, I hadn't been actually raped in my own home in the middle of the night, had I? I knew the drill by now.

I'm in my early 60s now, and as every person who has posted a story in this thread can attest, you never, ever forget.
  #31  
Old 09-23-2018, 11:19 AM
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The replies from those who were afraid ... I'm sorry if the thread is causing you more pain.

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The OP seems to disagree with your assessment that this thread is about you and your thoughts about Kavanaugh.
Thank you. Sigh

Musicat, get the fuck out of here, or shut up and listen.
No, just shut up, accept that not everything thing in the world is about you and your fucking opinion, and listen to people.

We are not talking about you, we are not talking about Kavanaugh, we are not talking about your opinion of Kavanaugh.

If you want to tell us why you did not report it when you were sexually assaulted, or what happened when you did, fine. Otherwise, shut up and listen.

Stop. Listen. Think.

And, really, shut up.


[Anybody want to take a bet that Musicat triples down now?]
  #32  
Old 09-23-2018, 11:44 AM
Anny Middon Anny Middon is offline
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When I was in college (early 1970s) I attended a one-evening seminar on self-defense for women. The question came up: If you were unfortunate to be raped, should you report it? The consensus was No.

Yes, you might be helping other women by keeping a monster off the streets, but really none of us believed that would be the result. The strong likelihood was that the crime wouldn't really be investigated, on the assumption that "you must have been asking for it.". And if they actually caught the creep, you'd have to go to court to be blamed for the attack and watch the criminal go free.

It was suggested to us that we might report to the police that he exposed himself. That would probably be investigated, because while rapists were just red-blooded American men, weenie-waggers were PERVERTS.

My own story is much less harrowing that what others have reported here -- I was pushed against the wall while he forced his tongue into my mouth. He might have done more, but the Nurse Supervisor came back into the room. That was one of the few times I understood I was being assaulted (other times were instances where I was on a date -- I fought the guy off -- but always felt the attack was something I should have expected). It never occurred to me to report it.
  #33  
Old 09-23-2018, 11:48 AM
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This thread is really sad- in the literal sense. I don't know why it was placed in the Pit in the first place, swearing isn't limited to the Pit. I think having it here is just asking for it to be trolled.
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Old 09-23-2018, 11:50 AM
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We are not talking about you, we are not talking about Kavanaugh, we are not talking about your opinion of Kavanaugh.
Neither am I. I am talking about how perceptions can be mistaken and need to be taken accordingly.
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Old 09-23-2018, 12:01 PM
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So you don't want to consider WHY someone may not have reported? Do you think collecting anecdotes is the same as collecting data? Or do you just want short stories with no validity so you have an excuse to weep, but not a reason?
...You do know we can read what you wrote, right?

We can see your first post, which has absolutely nothing to do with finding out why sexual abuse victims don't report their abuse. We can see you bringing up Kavinaugh and explaining how he probably didn't attempt to rape Ford.

So fuck off trying to convince anyone that you're remotely interested in reasons why victims may not report their rape or sexual assault. You're here to argue that a particular rape didn't happen.

And this post is you trying to silence them, pretending their stories don't matter. You're saying the one reason this thread actually exists doesn't matter. Of fucking course hearing "anecdotes" from real people for why they didn't report tells us why real people didn't report!

On preview, I see you continuing this. We can see your post. It was not about why victims don'treport when they are raped or sexually assaulted. It was about Kavinaugh, and an opinion for why he didn't actually commit rape.

We can see what you wrote. Stop pulling a Trump and trying to lie about it.
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Old 09-23-2018, 12:15 PM
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I have no love for Kavanaugh. And I doubt if I could ever be realistically accused of what he has been. But I can certainly see, especially in the passage of time, a mild attempt at sexual persuasion morphed into a brutal attack in someone's mind, whether intentionally skewed or not. Memory isn't perfect and confabulation abounds.
A “mild attempt at sexual persuasion” is putting a hand on a girl’s breast uninvited, or annoyingly nagging at her that “everybody’s doing it”. Two older boys cornering a younger girl in a room and attempting to force her to disrobe, groping at her, and covering her mouth is unambiguously sexual and physical assault. There is no confusion on this point in law or in the mind of any rational person.

As for the “Memory isn’t perfect and confabulation abounds,” while we cannot know with any certainty what occurred at a party thirty-odd years ago, the fact is that Ford has made some very clear statements about what she remembers having occurred (even if some ancillary details of the party have been lost in memory), while Kavanaugh categorically denies this or any other assault having taken place. Ford has a prior history having discussed salient issues of the assault with a therapist several years prior to Kavanaugh even being suggested for nomination and passed a polygraph test (for what that is worth) on questions pertaining to the issue. Kavanaugh, on the other hand, denies the reputation for underaged drinking, partying, and misogyny even though friend and partner in the alleged assault, Mark Judge has written autobiographically about those behaviors in his peer group contemporaneous to the assault even though he does not mention Kavanaugh specifically. So in terms of credibility, Ford would seem to have a better basis for her claims that Kavanaugh’s denial.

Many people have made the claim that the allegations, lacking as they do any eyewitness testimony, physical evidence, or reporting at the time of the assault, do not meet the standard for criminal prosecution, which is absolutely true. No prosecutor would ever go to trial on the basis of this say-so story without supporting evidence or testimony. But this issue isn’t about conviction in a court of law; it is about the reputation of a person seeking lifetime appointment to the highest court of the land, and his integrity, acumen, and impartiality. In hearings, Kavanaugh has already demonstrated a reluctance to answer direct questions with clear, unambiguous answers. He is denying having partaken in the party behavior of his teenage cohort, a claim exactly no reasonable person actually believes to be true. As Heraclitus said, “Character is destiny”, and soneone on the Supreme Court should be a person of the highest character regardless of their political leanings, which Kavanaugh does not give the impression of being.

There are multiple reasons to question Kavanaugh’s fitness to be appointed to the Supreme Court notwithstanding that his judicial record and history of law clerk hiring practices already make him of dubious qualification for the court. There is certainly reason to delay a vote and allow Ford’s testimony to be heard without the shitty depreciation characteristic of the Anita Hill hearings in 1991 (e.g. “Are you a scorned woman?”) and permit Kavanaugh to rebut the claims or provide an alternate interpretation, and no reason to just bulldoze past this and confirm the appointment regardless. But guess what Senate Republicans are going to do.

Stranger
  #37  
Old 09-23-2018, 12:25 PM
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Neither am I. I am talking about how perceptions can be mistaken and need to be taken accordingly.
Are you saying that we shouldn't believe the posters in this thread? I don't know how else to interpret this post. If so, WTF is wrong with you? People are coming forward and telling their story for zero personal gain and at no risk to the people who assaulted them, and you still don't believe them. You're why people don't come forward.

If not, then what did you mean? And, why are you bringing Kavanaugh into this thread? There's already one in Elections that you can wallow in.

You've never struck me as quite the obtuse asshole that you're coming across here. Did you have a stroke or something? Have you started watching Fox News?

This thread is for people to come forward and talk about why they never reported the sexual assault they experienced, or if they did, what happened or didn't happen.
  #38  
Old 09-23-2018, 12:48 PM
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The first time I mentioned something to my parents about a pair of boys who continually groped and touched me at school, I was told boys will be boys and that they probably just like me.

The second time, I didn't want to look stupid complaining about something 'normal boys' do to girls they like. That's about when I started gaining weight and doing my best to look as unattractive as possible.

The third time, the worst time, I didn't want my father's daughter to be deported. Besides, we were married. We all know it's not rape if you're married, right?
  #39  
Old 09-23-2018, 01:22 PM
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... We all know it's not rape if you're married, right?
Until relatively recently, it wasn't, according to Wikipedia, as late as 1993 in two states.
Think about that - for most of the history of this country a woman could be raped regularly, and that was just how it was. At least now we pretend.

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Originally Posted by bobot View Post
This thread is really sad- in the literal sense. I don't know why it was placed in the Pit in the first place, swearing isn't limited to the Pit. I think having it here is just asking for it to be trolled.
You don't think that would happen anywhere? Maybe people welcome the chance to get nasty and fight back. I don't know.

What does everyone think? Should I request a forum change? (I can do that, right?)

Stranger and Ritter, there are about a dozen threads about Kavanaugh, and over a hundred that are discussing him. Would you move your conversation to one of them? Thanks (and see you there, probably).

Quote:
Originally Posted by j666 View Post
[Anybody want to take a bet that Musicat triples down now?]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicat View Post
Neither am I. I am talking about how perceptions can be mistaken and need to be taken accordingly.
Did I call it, or what?

A. This thread was not opened to discuss how perceptions can be mistaken.

B. No, you aren't. You're talking about how people who've been raped shouldn't be believed, and, to add insult to injury, attributing the mechanisms that rapists use to go on living themselves to do so.

C. Shut up

Until you are ready to talk about why you didn't report being sexually assaulted, or the result when you did, please just listen or leave.

Five bucks says he comes back.
  #40  
Old 09-23-2018, 02:09 PM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is online now
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Originally Posted by j666 View Post
This thread is intended for people who have been sexually assaulted to explain why they did not report, for those who did report to describe the results, and to fight the ignorance of those who have never been assaulted.

If you haven't been assaulted: Stop. Listen. Think. Thank you.
I have stopped, I have listened, and I have thought. And to say "your welcome" to that would imply that it is not something that I (and we) should have done without being asked.

I am going to veer a slight bit from your OP, and all apologies, to talk about why I didn't report what I saw, and why they didn't report it either.

I spent most of my working life in restaurants, and those are hotbeds of toxic masculinity. The amount of sexual harassment that I saw and ignored makes me feel like shit, now that I have left that culture and that environment, and see it from the outside, and now seeing just how disgusting it was, and how complicit I was in not standing up against it.

There were some extreme situations where I did end up giving a dirty look (like when the general manager walked up behind a server bending down to get something out of a cooler, grabbed her by the waist, and shoved his crotch into her ass), but that is pretty much the extent. There were even a few instances that I found to be amusing at the time, and when I think about that now, I want to curl up and die.

Servers were expected to give at least blow jobs if a cook gave them a ride to work. The servers who were more "friendly" got their food prioritized. Grab ass was the name of the game, and if a customer got "friendly" the managers would not back up the server in the slightest.

One of the servers actually did get fed up with it, and tried to sue, but we had all signed arbitration agreements, so that didn't go anywhere, all that was accomplished was that she had lost her job, and was largely blacklisted from serving jobs in the area.

I was talking to an acquaintance of mine recently who still does work in the industry, and he said "What am I supposed to do, report the whole goddamn store?"

I would really like to see the #metoo movement move its way down to the entry level employee. The one with no power. The people that have come forward so far have certainly had a lot to lose by doing so, but they are also in much better positions to be believed and to be able to manage their lives even if they are not.

Some of you have pointed out that it was the times that made it hard to report. The times are still now.

It is as you say in the OP "Why didn't I report? I really did not think anyone would have done anything. I was probably right.", but that only holds true if I am the only one reporting. We all need to report not just what happens to us, but what we see happens to others as well.
  #41  
Old 09-23-2018, 02:26 PM
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But let's not beat ourselves up for not reporting? Some of us still beat ourselves up for getting raped.

Not me, but I understand those who do.
  #42  
Old 09-23-2018, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicat View Post
I have no love for Kavanaugh. And I doubt if I could ever be realistically accused of what he has been. But I can certainly see, especially in the passage of time, a mild attempt at sexual persuasion morphed into a brutal attack in someone's mind, whether intentionally skewed or not. Memory isn't perfect and confabulation abounds.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicat View Post
Do you think memories of exact dialogue and critical actions are perfect after 35 years? By either party? You're putting an awful lot of weight on something that may be marginally accurate.

Thank you for your polite and well-reasoned response. Unfortunately, this thread is indeed about it. What do you think started this argument, the man in the moon? I suggested that in that particular case, there may be extenuating and unknown circumstances due to many factors; someone who "did not report" may be subject to the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Musicat View Post
So you don't want to consider WHY someone may not have reported? Do you think collecting anecdotes is the same as collecting data? Or do you just want short stories with no validity so you have an excuse to weep, but not a reason?
This crap. This is the why. Because you in your infinite goddamn "wisdom" have decided that people saying why they didn't report something isn't the same as "the WHY someone may not have reported." Because you came in here talking about Kavanaugh, then tried to say you weren't talking about Kavanaugh, and as a bonus you let us know that our perceptions can be mistaken. Our "short stories with no validity " apparently are worthless to you, so kindly fuck off.
  #43  
Old 09-23-2018, 05:20 PM
Modesty Blaise Modesty Blaise is offline
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I feel I need to share more of my story because it resulted in a conviction.

My father molested me until I was eleven when my sister told my mother. Of note: she did not tell my mother about him molesting her, until later.

I would have never said anything. I was afraid my father would kill me.

My mother went on a crusade to get him convicted. This sounds good right? But it all seemed always about her, not her daughters. I was forced to talk to many, many people about what happened. There was an indictment and a trial. After this I became an almost recluse until I was out of high school.

I want to speak a little about being a child witness. I remember being asked over and over to come up with dates and times and what exactly happened in detail. In other words I was asked to give testimony that would be how an adult would give testimony. I could tell details of what he did, but not when.

My testimony would have been more like: He did these different things and he did it regularly, for as long as I can remember.

He was convicted on my testimony and that of my sister’s friend (yes, he molested her too) but not my sister’s. They did not like that she wouldn’t take any shit while she was on the stand.

The whole thing was horrific and traumatizing. The utter shame of people knowing. And the fact that my mother seemed to have no problem just blurting out this information to almost anyone because she liked to cast herself as a hero.

My father went to prison for two and a half years for molesting me and the friend. Two and a half years for years and years of abuse.

I want to be very clear: i would not have said anything, ever. And after all this? I never told anyone about my brother and that went on for years after the trial. And the thought of saying anything about mere harassment and groping never entered my head.

Well into my forties, I googled my father’s name (it’s unusual) and the 1973 conviction was right there. It was surreal.
  #44  
Old 09-23-2018, 05:29 PM
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Because I was about 8 years old and he was my mothers boyfriend. Because while his finger was inside me, he reminded me that he carried a gun.

I was almost 50 years old when I told my mother. The only reason I told her was because the ex boyfriend had been trying to get in touch with her through my grandmother and she asked me if I bought she should give him her number.
  #45  
Old 09-23-2018, 05:38 PM
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#WhySheDidntReport

On behalf of my high school girlfriend: Because she believed she would not be supported. He was Family, and Family was Tight-knit and Armenian and Important.

On behalf of my ex-wife: Because she sought attention and therefore maybe people would assume she "asked" for it.
  #46  
Old 09-23-2018, 05:40 PM
andros andros is offline
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Also?

I love you.

I am listening.

You are not alone.

You are worthy.

You are valuable.


It's not your fault.
.
  #47  
Old 09-23-2018, 05:40 PM
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My story is a little different. First, I was a little boy. Second, it happened when I was VERY young. Third, I didn't realize what had happened until I was 40.

I always had an image of my father's erect penis, along with its odor and taste. Nothing else, just an image that had gotten stuck in my head, popping into my consciousness at random times. But for the first time, when I was 40, I asked myself what was the source of that image. When could I ever have seen my father's erect penis at such an early age? And it was then that I had realized that there was some kind of sexual abuse going on.

By then he was 72, and I really wanted to confront him about this. And tell my mother as well. I kind of still wish I had.

Several years later, my father had Alzheimer's, but was still rather coherent. I was talking to him on the phone, and he suddenly said "I love you." This was the only time in my life I ever heard him say something like that. I remember wondering whether he knew what he said, or to whom he was saying it. Then he said "When you were a baby, I more than loved you." Oh, sweet Jesus, I so wanted to say "Yeah, I remember how you 'more than loved' me when I was a baby." But by then I had pity on him and his disease, so I kept my fucking mouth shut.

In the ensuing years, after his death, I always had thoughts of telling my mother what had happened all those years ago. But she wouldn't have believed me, and it would hurt her immensely. I never told her.

I still think about telling my brother, and asking whether he had any memories like that.
  #48  
Old 09-23-2018, 06:04 PM
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I used to carpool with three other women. We were talking about sexual assault one day and I mentioned reading that one in four women had been sexual molested. The three women all admitted to being raped when they were in high school or college. That is disturbing.

I can't imagine how terrible it must be to report, and testify. The cards are staked against the victim. There is an article in the Alaskan tribal news of a white man that attacked a native woman and he walked away with a slap on his wrist.
  #49  
Old 09-23-2018, 06:06 PM
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Link to Alaskan story
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...=1537743957737
  #50  
Old 09-23-2018, 06:08 PM
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Forgive me for interrupting these important stories to say: Just when we’ve all been wondering if the SDMB still serves much of a purpose, this thread happens — likely to be remembered as one of its crowning achievements (I mean that sincerely). This kind of dialogue is happening in other venues, too, of course, but I think there’s something special about the community we’ve built up here over the years that makes it play out a bit differently here — for the better, perhaps.
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