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  #1  
Old 10-09-2018, 10:19 AM
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Democracy is dead in Georgia

https://truthout.org/articles/gops-b...got-the-names/

Over 500,000 names removed from the rolls. Thousands of whom remain GA residents.

Quote:
Notably, Swedlund’s analysts found that 108,000 of the names on Kemp’s hit list were also on the notorious “Interstate Crosscheck” list, which my investigations team had obtained from an insider in Kemp’s office as part of my investigations for Rolling Stone.

The lists were created for Georgia by Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, President Donald Trump’s “fraudulent voter hunter.” Kobach himself, interviewed in Kansas, told me the list was sent to Kemp and others to indicate a voter had moved out of state. In fact, we went through each and every Crosscheck-tagged voter’s name — and only 2,000 of the 108,000 Crosschecked voters who were purged have left the state. And the majority of others purged had not moved from their original registration address. In simple terms, most of those whose registrations have been cancelled are legitimate Georgia voters.
Brian Kemp deserves jail time, as do all the people who worked with him on this project.

Voting rights aren't a game. They're deadly serious, and infringing upon them should be treated as such. People will have voted, but assuming this prevents formerly registered voters from casting their vote, Kemp will not have been Democratically elected.
  #2  
Old 10-09-2018, 10:41 AM
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Meet the New Morality-If you can't be stopped, it is morally right to do it. Accusations, admonitions, evidence etc. are not regarded at all as long as nothing literally stops you from doing it.
  #3  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:21 AM
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So, the devil did go down to Georgia?!
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:23 AM
Shodan Shodan is offline
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I wonder what really happened.

Not that an article written by the guy filing lawsuits isn't above question in any particular, of course.

Regards,
Shodan
  #5  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
I wonder what really happened.

Not that an article written by the guy filing lawsuits isn't above question in any particular, of course.

Regards,
Shodan
Thank you for that question.
Got any more?
  #6  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:27 AM
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Thank you for that question.
Got any more?
Ha ha ha, oh my, ha ha ha!
  #7  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:32 AM
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Scumpup shows up one minute after I do-what a coincidence!

Get a hobby, Staulky.
  #8  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:32 AM
HMS Irruncible HMS Irruncible is offline
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I wonder what really happened.
Probably not.
  #9  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
I wonder what really happened.

Not that an article written by the guy filing lawsuits isn't above question in any particular, of course.

Regards,
Shodan
Do you have any reason to doubt the story?
  #10  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
I wonder what really happened.

Not that an article written by the guy filing lawsuits isn't above question in any particular, of course.

Regards,
Shodan
The man did some reporting. He has a list of names removed from the rolls. He hired an outside analyst who found that thousands of them belong to people who are still residents of GA.

He is subsequently taking the Secretary of State to court to get him to release records he won't voluntarily release.

Which part of this do you suggest he is lying about?
  #11  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:47 AM
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Scumpup shows up one minute after I do-what a coincidence!

Get a hobby, Staulky.
Are we sure it wasn't more like 3 seconds, like maybe your reply went out at 26 minutes and 58 seconds after the hour. He has a prefabricated response on his clipboard; he sees your post and a green light switch goes off in his brain after he's been pressing F5 all morning, hits Reply With Quote, hits Ctrl+V, and sends it off 27:01 after the hour.
  #12  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:52 AM
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Are we sure it wasn't more like 3 seconds, like maybe your reply went out at 26 minutes and 58 seconds after the hour. He has a prefabricated response on his clipboard; he sees your post and a green light switch goes off in his brain after he's been pressing F5 all morning, hits Reply With Quote, hits Ctrl+V, and sends it off 27:01 after the hour.
It was about as substantial as his other generic attacks, so you might be right...and that's about as much thought as I want to waste on him, so back to the topic at hand.
  #13  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:53 AM
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Which part of this do you suggest he is lying about?
Shodan is Just Asking Questions.
  #14  
Old 10-09-2018, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Eonwe View Post
Brian Kemp deserves jail time, as do all the people who worked with him on this project.

Voting rights aren't a game. They're deadly serious, and infringing upon them should be treated as such.
I agree (assuming he's actually done what he's accused of, which I don't know for sure but have no clear reason to doubt).

And yes, of course I'd still agree no matter which party was doing something like this.
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
I wonder what really happened.

Not that an article written by the guy filing lawsuits isn't above question in any particular, of course.

Regards,
Shodan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Thank you for that question.
Got any more?
"I wonder what really happened" is a declarative statement, not a question.

Thus has your retort been refuted.

Also, my hair is a bird.
  #16  
Old 10-09-2018, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
I wonder what really happened.

Not that an article written by the guy filing lawsuits isn't above question in any particular, of course.

Regards,
Shodan
Right, because when governments won't release information they're legally required to, a good reporter just shrugs his shoulders and does a story on puppies.
  #17  
Old 10-09-2018, 12:21 PM
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Scumpup shows up one minute after I do-what a coincidence!

Get a hobby, Staulky.
Whereas it took you a full three minutes after me. I guess Scumpup likes you three times better than you like me.

I can't say I'm jealous, but still.

Regards,
Shodan
  #18  
Old 10-09-2018, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Whereas it took you a full three minutes after me. I guess Scumpup likes you three times better than you like me.

I can't say I'm jealous, but still.

Regards,
Shodan
The difference is that I am here to talk about the OP.
Speaking of which, why do you doubt the initial story?
  #19  
Old 10-09-2018, 12:29 PM
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We had a thread not too long about voters being purged if they didn't vote in the last one or two elections. This seems to be fairly common (not just Georgia, but other states, too). Here's an article about Georgia:

Quote:
Georgia and other states can target people who haven’t cast ballots in a while in efforts to purge their voting rolls, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled Monday in an Ohio case that has drawn wide attention amid stark partisan divisions and the approach of the 2018 elections.
Is this an example of that policy? If so, there is a chance that what is being done is legal. It wouldn't surprise me if that was the case, but it's hard to tell for sure from the OP's article.
  #20  
Old 10-09-2018, 12:39 PM
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It is a combination of purging infrequent voters and purging people with trivial differences between their registration and their ID documents, such as a dropped hyphen in one's last name.

It is bullshit, and more evidence that our country is in a cold civil war. The GOP seems to be happy with that, as they have the upper hand. We'll see how long that lasts.
  #21  
Old 10-09-2018, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
I wonder what really happened.
Gee, you sound really concerned.
  #22  
Old 10-09-2018, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by John Mace View Post
We had a thread not too long about voters being purged if they didn't vote in the last one or two elections. This seems to be fairly common (not just Georgia, but other states, too). Here's an article about Georgia:
Quote:
Georgia and other states can target people who haven’t cast ballots in a while in efforts to purge their voting rolls, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled Monday in an Ohio case that has drawn wide attention amid stark partisan divisions and the approach of the 2018 elections.
Is this an example of that policy? If so, there is a chance that what is being done is legal. It wouldn't surprise me if that was the case, but it's hard to tell for sure from the OP's article.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Parker View Post
It is a combination of purging infrequent voters and purging people with trivial differences between their registration and their ID documents, such as a dropped hyphen in one's last name.
Or who treated a postcard soliciting confirmation that they haven't left the state as though it were unimportant junk mail (if anyone could locate, and post an image of the postcards sent out, it would be helpful).

Quote:
It is bullshit, and more evidence that our country is in a cold civil war. The GOP seems to be happy with that, as they have the upper hand.
QFT

Quote:
We'll see how long that lasts.
God (and the FSM and the IPU) willing, not past next January.

Oh, and Bob.
  #23  
Old 10-09-2018, 01:32 PM
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I'm kinda partisan, so before I decide, is this slithering scum of an idea Republican or Democratic? Disturbed minds want to know.
  #24  
Old 10-09-2018, 01:51 PM
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Scumpup shows up one minute after I do-what a coincidence!

Get a hobby, Staulky.
First, "staulky" isn't a word. Second, pointing ànd laughing at you when you display such total lack of self-awareness isn't stalking. I don't even do it every time you say something stupid. That would be a full-time job.
  #25  
Old 10-09-2018, 01:58 PM
Gary Kumquat Gary Kumquat is offline
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Whereas it took you a full three minutes after me.
Czar posted in this thread before you, and replied to your post to ask a question.

Scum just popped in to attempt a non-thread related swipe at Czar.

You really should be able to see a difference there.
  #26  
Old 10-09-2018, 02:05 PM
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Just a reminder from your friendly neighborhood Try2B that Jim Crow was also entirely legal.
  #27  
Old 10-09-2018, 03:06 PM
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Predictable thread is predictable:

1) They should go to jail!!!!!11! This is illegal!!!11!!!

2) Actually, it is legal, see Supreme Court case.

3) But Jim Crow was also legal!

Lather rinse repeat.

The idea is: if it's legal, you can't send people to jail for doing it, unless we live in Democrat Party Nirvana, where jail sentences are handed down based on the unwritten rules of Leftists Must Triumph.
  #28  
Old 10-09-2018, 03:10 PM
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As opposed to Fuck Ethics and Morality! I've got the Law on my side!
  #29  
Old 10-09-2018, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricker View Post
Predictable thread is predictable:

1) They should go to jail!!!!!11! This is illegal!!!11!!!

2) Actually, it is legal, see Supreme Court case.

3) But Jim Crow was also legal!

Lather rinse repeat.

The idea is: if it's legal, you can't send people to jail for doing it, unless we live in Democrat Party Nirvana, where jail sentences are handed down based on the unwritten rules of Leftists Must Triumph.
Good point. The slow destruction of Democracy and the transformation of the United States into a de facto single party state (A party that isn't even all that popular) is being accomplished by entirely legal means. Makes me feel right patriotic it does.
  #30  
Old 10-09-2018, 03:20 PM
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The idea is: if it's legal, you can't send people to jail for doing it, unless we live in Democrat Party Nirvana, where jail sentences are handed down based on the unwritten rules of Leftists Must Triumph.
I doubt anyone has committed a crime, but your certainty that they haven't is misplaced. In the "Democrat Party's" America, cases are decided based on facts. One of the most important facts in the voting rights context is intent. You can take an identical action with different intent and transform it from legal to illegal, constitutional to unconstitutional, perfectly hunky dory to criminal conspiracy.

What is being alleged here is that Kemp is using the powers of his office to directly benefit his own election, and is doing so by targeting the black and brown voters he expects to vote for his opponent. Is that true? I dunno. But neither do you. It is certainly worthy of investigation.

The people who don't believe in due process are the people who want to declare that everything is perfectly legal and fine before they know the facts.
  #31  
Old 10-09-2018, 03:25 PM
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The people who don't believe in due process are the people who want to declare that everything is perfectly legal and fine before they know the facts.
And the ones who do believe in due process declare the end of democracy in Georgia, presumably.

Regards,
Shodan
  #32  
Old 10-09-2018, 03:28 PM
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And the ones who do believe in due process declare the end of democracy in Georgia, presumably.

Regards,
Shodan
You're conflating whether this is bad for democracy with whether a crime has been committed.

It is clearly bad for democracy. We don't know if it is criminal.
  #33  
Old 10-09-2018, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Eonwe View Post
Brian Kemp deserves jail time, as do all the people who worked with him on this project.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricker View Post
Predictable thread is predictable:

1) They should go to jail!!!!!11! This is illegal!!!11!!!
1) I've read the thread twice looking for the place where someone said this was illegal. As best as I can tell, you're the first person who's made any reference either way about its possible illegality.

2) I know it must upset you that people often believe the real crime is what's legal.

3) Predictable Bricker is predictable: turning everyone's remarks into a discussion of the law.

4) Get a dictionary, dude. Merriam-Webster has this to say about 'deserve': "deserve is used when a person should rightly receive something good or bad because of his or her actions or character." Sounds like the OP was using the word correctly. And you are twisting it around.

5) This habit of yours is getting boring as shit.
  #34  
Old 10-09-2018, 03:49 PM
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1) I've read the thread twice looking for the place where someone said this was illegal. As best as I can tell, you're the first person who's made any reference either way about its possible illegality.

2) I know it must upset you that people often believe the real crime is what's legal.

3) Predictable Bricker is predictable: turning everyone's remarks into a discussion of the law.

4) Get a dictionary, dude. Merriam-Webster has this to say about 'deserve': "deserve is used when a person should rightly receive something good or bad because of his or her actions or character." Sounds like the OP was using the word correctly. And you are twisting it around.

5) This habit of yours is getting boring as shit.
So you think Kemp should go to jail even if he has not broken the law. Thus we will save democracy in Georgia. Hmm.

Regards,
Shodan
  #35  
Old 10-09-2018, 03:51 PM
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So you think Kemp should go to jail even if he has not broken the law. Thus we will save democracy in Georgia. Hmm.
Thinking that he should go to jail is not the same as thinking he deserves to go to jail.
  #36  
Old 10-09-2018, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
So you think Kemp should go to jail even if he has not broken the law. Thus we will save democracy in Georgia. Hmm.

Regards,
Shodan
Got news for you: Whoever you hired to translate the posts on this message board from English to Idiot has really been messing with you.
  #37  
Old 10-09-2018, 04:06 PM
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Bricker, let me burn that predictable strawman of yours right to the fucking ground. When I said “he should go to jail,” I was, not, in fact, making a legal argument. I was expressing emotional outrage at actions that, to be, seem flatly and unabashedly anti-Democratic. Since, if there’s one thing I can take national pride in it’s our Democracy, you might understand why one might get upset when the government disenfranchises voters in such a direct way.

So, again, in case it was confusing to you let me rephrase the OP more directly:

1. Democracy is the foundation of our nation.

2. Intentionally preventing people from participating in said Democracy by removing them from the rolls based on arbitrary criteria is morally repugnant, anti-American, and IMHO should be criminal.

3. Pre-emptive: no, I do not think this means the State has a duty to, like, drive every person to the polls in a limo. There is obviously a set of appropriate actions and responsibilities of the government. It is my opinion that the actions reported in the OP are outside of that set.

4. A politician who purges the rolls in such a way, even if it was unpartisan in nature, undermines the authority of the government in dangerous ways. If I am prevented from voting by the government itself, why should I feel obligated to subject myself to its authority? One person here or there, and this is maybe not a concerning question. Thousands in a state, and it is.
  #38  
Old 10-09-2018, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bricker View Post
Predictable thread is predictable:

1) They should go to jail!!!!!11! This is illegal!!!11!!!

2) Actually, it is legal, see Supreme Court case.

3) But Jim Crow was also legal!

Lather rinse repeat.

The idea is: if it's legal, you can't send people to jail for doing it, unless we live in Democrat Party Nirvana, where jail sentences are handed down based on the unwritten rules of Leftists Must Triumph.
"Democrat Party Nirvana". Oh please. "Lock her up Lock her up" is the republican party's mating call.
  #39  
Old 10-09-2018, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eonwe View Post
[Brian Kemp deserves jail time
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
So you think Kemp should go to jail even if he has not broken the law.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink View Post
Thinking that he should go to jail is not the same as thinking he deserves to go to jail.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eonwe View Post
When I said “he should go to jail,”
Crazy semantic argument gets even crazier.
  #40  
Old 10-09-2018, 04:59 PM
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Y'know... hyperbole's the real problem in this thread. It's the worst thing ever!!


Rhetoric is dead on the SDMB. Thanks, Eonwe.
  #41  
Old 10-09-2018, 05:15 PM
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So, half a million voters disenfranchised in the state that has the fucking Confederate flag as part of its state flag, and Bricker's bitch is that someone mentioned Jim Crow.

Perspective fail.
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  #42  
Old 10-09-2018, 05:24 PM
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Wait, that's Mississippi, isn't it.

Dammit.
  #43  
Old 10-09-2018, 05:31 PM
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It is a combination of purging infrequent voters and purging people with trivial differences between their registration and their ID documents, such as a dropped hyphen in one's last name.

It is bullshit, and more evidence that our country is in a cold civil war. The GOP seems to be happy with that, as they have the upper hand. We'll see how long that lasts.
We have to understand that this is not a fair fight - the right wing doesn't want a fair fight. People in the center and left have, for far too long, been complacent. Not showing up in mid-term elections, not showing up in sufficient numbers in presidential election cycles. It would be great if we could say to progressives and left-leaning moderates "just go out and vote," and for sure, that must be said. But what do we do when we actually do show up and vote, and in greater numbers than the conservatives, and...we still lose? Not merely because we were lazy and chose not to vote, but because many were discouraged against voting?
  #44  
Old 10-09-2018, 05:32 PM
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Anyway, like I've been saying, y'all hate me...but you know, deep down in, I'm right.
  #45  
Old 10-09-2018, 05:41 PM
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Shriug, was Georgia ever a democracy? Isn’t this what the second amendment is for, it is it only so that people in Florida can murder blacks? Red state America has always been a shithole.
  #46  
Old 10-09-2018, 05:47 PM
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And if there's anything that scares Republicans, it's lots of people voting. Trump can talk all he wants about rigged this and rigged that, but Republicans depend on a rigged game.
  #47  
Old 10-09-2018, 06:03 PM
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And if there's anything that scares Republicans, it's lots of people voting. Trump can talk all he wants about rigged this and rigged that, but Republicans depend on a rigged game.
What scares them most is black people; black people voting, black people going to the store, black children playing. Black people existing terrifies them. Arm blacks and see how fast Fox News supports gun control. We’re well past democratic solutions in Georgia.
  #48  
Old 10-09-2018, 06:28 PM
HMS Irruncible HMS Irruncible is offline
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Wait, that's Mississippi, isn't it.

Dammit.
Georgia's state flag does contain a confederate flag, it's just a lesser-known one.

If anyone ever saw a Brian Kemp ad, you'd understand what we're talking about. Take the dumbest Trump pitch you ever saw, and multiply it tenfold. "Haw haw, I got me a big pickup truck to take them illegals back to Mexico." It's literally that stupid.

It's very likely someone this stupid is running some sort of con like Trump. He should be investigated, and it's probably jail-worthy, and I'd laugh.
  #49  
Old 10-09-2018, 06:39 PM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
So you think Kemp should go to jail even if he has not broken the law.
Since I didn't say it, I guess either your reading ability or your ESP must be out of whack.
  #50  
Old 10-09-2018, 06:40 PM
Northern Piper Northern Piper is offline
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History of Georgia's flag:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_o...ia_(U.S._state)
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