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Old 10-09-2018, 12:30 PM
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Kavanaugh Hires Female Clerks

Article here. He's being lauded for it. I don't know but....for some reason this really makes me feel dirty and angry and just....I can't even explain how it makes me feel. That someone like him, accused of what he was accused of (and imo did), would make it a point to hire only female clerks....It just seems really....insulting and......skeevy? For lack of a better term. I dunno if this is the right forum or if it's going to end up in the pit but I just had to get this off my chest. I think I'm going to go cry in the shower now.

Last edited by AngelSoft; 10-09-2018 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:47 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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The Guardian reported that when Kavanaugh sought clerks in previous years, he preferred female clerks with a "certain look" and that it was no accident that all of his female clerks looked like models.
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:48 PM
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Makes me more mad that women would actually work for him.

I know, clerking for a SC Justice is really prestigious. Still, I don't think I would.
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:55 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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Would you have been mad if he didn't hire any female law clerks?
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Old 10-09-2018, 01:12 PM
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Would you have been mad if he didn't hire any female law clerks?
I honestly don't care who he hires. It's the fact that he hired specifically ALL female clerks and that people are praising him because this is the first time that's happened. Acting like he's worthy of some sort of praise for doing something no one else has done. Like I said, I'm not having an easy time putting my feelings to words on this, it just feels wrong. I guess it would be like if someone's accused of child abuse and after they're cleared of it for whatever reason, they go out and open a child care facility, as if to show how much they like kids?? Probably not the best analogy but the only thing my sleep deprived brain can think of.
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Old 10-09-2018, 01:23 PM
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It will be the first topless bar in a Supreme Court justice's chambers.
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Old 10-09-2018, 01:33 PM
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I'll have to remember to DVR this weekend's SNL...
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Old 10-09-2018, 01:38 PM
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It'd be nice if he just hired the best clerks for the job regardless of their gender, race, or anything else. By just hiring women, he's trying to imply it's his own affirmative action program, but it comes off as creepy. I think the underlying reason is he likes the feeling of being surrounded by women. I also wonder if he feels threatened by men and would feel uncomfortable telling them what to do.
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Old 10-09-2018, 01:50 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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It'd be nice if he just hired the best clerks for the job regardless of their gender, race, or anything else. ...
I agree with this.

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... I also wonder if he feels threatened by men and would feel uncomfortable telling them what to do.
But not with this. He has had male law clerk in the past. And I thought the the liberal perspective was that he appeared most uncomfortable answering questions by Harris, a female Senator, not one of her male colleagues on the Judiciary Committee.
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Old 10-09-2018, 01:54 PM
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But not with this. He has had male law clerk in the past. And I thought the the liberal perspective was that he appeared most uncomfortable answering questions by Harris, a female Senator, not one of her male colleagues on the Judiciary Committee.
That sounds like he has a problem dealing with women in positions of power, but is fine with men in power. "How dare that uppity woman ask a question that demeans my integrity! Hey hunny, how many beers a night do *you* drink?!"
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Old 10-09-2018, 01:59 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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That sounds like he has a problem dealing with women in positions of power, but is fine with men in power. "How dare that uppity woman ask a question that demeans my integrity! Hey hunny, how many beers a night do *you* drink?!"
I think you're jumping from one wild theory to the next, trying to ascribe the worst possible motives you can to the man, without much in the way of evidence for any of it.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 10-09-2018 at 02:00 PM.
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:03 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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I think you're jumping from one wild theory to the next, trying to ascribe the worst possible motives you can to the man, without much in the way of evidence for any of it.
That's what happens when a person has lost all credibility. They no longer enjoy the benefit of the doubt. Sucks to be a lying scumbag, but that's what we have.
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:06 PM
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All of the clerks he selected have worked for him in previous positions, and it is not atypical for an incoming justice who has to set up a completely new staff to recruit previous clerks. That they are all women should be neither here nor there, which does not lessen the skeeviness of their being described as having a certain look or being coached about how to appeal to Kavanaugh in interviews.

But lets not lose sight of the fact that the Senate ignored the fact that Kavanaugh lied under oath on multiple issues, and that the allegations of Ford were not given the promised thorough investigation by the FBI prior to the confirmation vote, and those of Ramirez and Swetnick were given no hearing whatsoever by the Judiciary Committee. There is a lot more about this situation that is distrubing than just Kavanaugh hypothetically making a choice to promote his supposed support for women while flaunting his arrogant frat boy persona; the enabling of this behavior by more than half of the Senate indicates a more systemic problem that needs to be resolved by removing the people who are helping to perpetuate it. Just as Bill Cosby did not act alone to isolate, molest, and discredit the women he preyed upon for decades, Kavanaugh did not get himself appointed to the Supreme Court without a lot of people acting on his behalf to just down the inquiry into his past behavior and ignore is deceptiveness and unfettered aggression in what was supposed to be a hearing to determine his suitability to sit upon the bench.

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Old 10-09-2018, 02:15 PM
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The Guardian reported that when Kavanaugh sought clerks in previous years, he preferred female clerks with a "certain look" and that it was no accident that all of his female clerks looked like models.
The Guardian didn't report that. It reported that someone claimed that, but did not offer any independent verification.

Anyway, I'm confused about a few things in the article in the OP.

1. What was the promise he made during his confirmation process?

2. Is he only going to have 4 clerks? I have no idea how many clerks an Associate Justice typically has.

4. How long to clerks typically serve for? That is, at what point would we expect to see some men as a clerk?
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:21 PM
Jackmannii Jackmannii is offline
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According to the N.Y. Times:

"During his 12 years at the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, the majority of Justice Kavanaughs law clerks were women 25 of 48 and during his confirmation hearings he testified that he graduated more of them to clerkships at the Supreme Court than any other federal judge."
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All of the clerks he selected have worked for him in previous positions
I saw what you did there.
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:23 PM
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The Guardian didn't report that. It reported that someone claimed that, but did not offer any independent verification.

Anyway, I'm confused about a few things in the article in the OP.

1. What was the promise he made during his confirmation process?

2. Is he only going to have 4 clerks? I have no idea how many clerks an Associate Justice typically has.

4. How long to clerks typically serve for? That is, at what point would we expect to see some men as a clerk?
1, I don't know
2. Four is plenty. It used be be two. Then Three. Four is more than enough.
3. Hi Opal.
4. I think two year terms.
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:26 PM
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What is the truth?

[SIZE="3"[/SIZE]

In Hollywood and in the corporate world, there are firms that you hire to repair your image if it is damaged. In this case Trump's image is also a concern. He's a pig and most intelligent people know that but if they have a stake in the game, they won't say so, like his creepy press secretary). for me it's who and what those people are willing to harm to get the power. It may be true that our short attempt at a country achieving a true Democracy will fail in their hands. Kind of like the emperor throwing food to the crowd and entertaining them with blood and cruelty and sex.

so, this clerk thing is all part of that game of manipulation aimed at the voters. The Republicans are scared and desperate and can't risk losing seats. And after this particular shaming display it's obvious they will go to any lengths to not let that happen. For me, I wish most of our Congressmen on both sides would disappear and we could start all over. It's a quagmire of greed,lust, and revenge and can't be fixed.

I picture the men in black suits sweeping into the room and presenting a plan to change the image of our new justice. One of them might be this law clerk idea. Of course if rumors are true, his wife better watch out. If he likes the cute, young, smart things that is.

I really can't worry about what he did in high school. He had already been messed up by his parents and friends at that point. And drinking can bring it on. so, maybe he's still leading with his penis and maybe he isn't. He could still be a good justice if it's the right topic. On the other hand our president is a man whore,and t he is causing so much long term damage, I fear for my children.

I guess if you are poor and hopeless in another country the dream is no longer to come to America. I traveled in Europe and all over when Iwas young and that was true. It was wonderful.
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:36 PM
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I'd be more comfortable with it if he just did it instead of making an announcement about how great he is for doing it.
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:47 PM
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I'd be more comfortable with it if he just did it instead of making an announcement about how great he is for doing it.
Yeah, it's like how a racist will say he can't be racist because he has a black friend. (really, more of an acquaintance than friend, if we get into specifics. Actually, coworker would be a better description. But I don't actually know his name. I just see him sometimes and we nod when we pass in the hallway.)

I believe he mentioned about the women clerks when he was saying how much he respects women. It struck me more that he likes to be the center of attention with women and enjoys their adulation.

This is not the same thing, but Jerry Sandusky got a lot of accolades for his work with troubled boys. I'm sure he said how much he wanted to help the boys, and from the outside it looked that way. But now we know why he was surrounding himself with troubled boys. I don't in any way think Kavanaugh is doing what Sandusky was doing, but I just brought that up to show that he may have ulterior motives to surround himself with women. He may say he's doing it for X reason, but really it's because of Y.
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:48 PM
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One of his former clerks, Britt Grant just became a Court of Appeals Judge.

He even swore her inhttps://www.law.com/nationallawjourn...20180909154518
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Old 10-09-2018, 03:04 PM
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I saw what you did there.
I really didn't, and I was not trying to imply that the clerks that worked for him were selected with disregard for their legal skills. As an associate justice, Kavanaugh should be able to hire whomever he believes most qualified, and quickly staffing up an office means turning to people with whom he has previously worked. There is no particular indication he picked these clerks for unseemly reasons, or alternatively to counter criticism related to the allegations that were levied against him, and while the o.p. was clearly just seeking to vent her understandable frustration, I don't think it is fruitful to focus on this versus the larger issue of how aggressively and abnormally the confirmation was jammed through despite significant concerns about Kavanaugh's integrity and temperament to be on the court.

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Old 10-09-2018, 03:15 PM
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Stranger, the clerks were hired provisionally by him after his nomination but before the hearings. Until he got confirmed they were loaned out to other justices.
The reason they touted his work alongside women is obvious if you read the articles from before the hearings, since he has been nominated by Donald “living breathing sexual harassment claim” Trump and the question of Roe was likely to come up, they wanted to conter allegations of misogyny.
In retrospect it’s clear they had no inkling of the sexual assault allegations, since if they had, I doubt they would have made as much noise as they did.
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Old 10-09-2018, 03:19 PM
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He said in the hearings that he was going to do this, and if he hadn't, he would presumably face criticism for not following through. There has never been any allegation of impropriety toward his clerks, as far as I've heard.

They are all highly credentialed, but note too that one of his clerks is African-American, bringing some much-needed diversity to an overwhelmingly white community of law clerks. My recollection is that Kavanaugh has a good hiring record in that regard as well.
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Old 10-09-2018, 03:48 PM
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And if Democrats controlling the House after the upcoming election try to impeach Kavanaugh, they'll be threatening the prestigious jobs of women clerking for him.
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Old 10-09-2018, 04:32 PM
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And if Democrats controlling the House after the upcoming election try to impeach Kavanaugh, they'll be threatening the prestigious jobs of women clerking for him.
Yeah well, given what's at stake with him staying in the position, I would hope that any woman in her right mind would take one for the team on that.
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:10 PM
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I honestly don't care who he hires.
Actually, I think you do.

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According to the N.Y. Times:

"During his 12 years at the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, the majority of Justice Kavanaugh’s law clerks were women — 25 of 48 — and during his confirmation hearings he testified that he graduated more of them to clerkships at the Supreme Court than any other federal judge."

25 of 48 is a pretty skinny majority.

Last edited by Gatopescado; 10-10-2018 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:15 PM
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It'd be nice if he just hired the best clerks for the job regardless of their gender, race, or anything else.
Agreed.
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:19 PM
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According to the N.Y. Times:

"During his 12 years at the United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit, the majority of Justice Kavanaughs law clerks were women 25 of 48 and during his confirmation hearings he testified that he graduated more of them to clerkships at the Supreme Court than any other federal judge."I saw what you did there.
Majority. 52%. I think we can round it off to say he hired an equal number of men and women.
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:21 PM
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From 1994 to 1998, the percentage of women in federal court clerk positions was consistently slightly in favor of men but more balanced than you might guess. I have not found figures later than that but the most lopsided year had 56% men/44% women. Getting that to 50/50 is not exactly an accomplishment of historic proportions.
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:50 PM
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It'd be nice if he just hired the best clerks for the job regardless of their gender, race, or anything else.
It's hard to draw meaningful distinctions among the qualifications of the individuals within the talent pool, though, since they all come from the best schools and have worked for the smartest lower-court judges. I expect that all of the Justices would say that they have been hiring the best people available, but this has always meant in practice that the clerks who are chosen wind up being mostly male and overwhelmingly white. (Supreme Court clerkships have been much less diverse than the lower court clerkships cited upthread). Hiring all four female clerks is certainly something of a stunt, but change in this corner of the world is likely to require conscious commitment.
  #31  
Old 10-10-2018, 03:28 PM
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I saw what you did there.
I saw what you saw there, even had me a little giggle about it. Then I saw it was Stranger and, well, he's to serious to do that there. All of which is actually germane to the thread. Seeing something and making ungenerous assumptions about the motivations. Not unfounded, necessarily. Just ungenerous.
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Last edited by Inigo Montoya; 10-10-2018 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 10-10-2018, 03:40 PM
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From 1994 to 1998, the percentage of women in federal court clerk positions was consistently slightly in favor of men but more balanced than you might guess. I have not found figures later than that but the most lopsided year had 56% men/44% women. Getting that to 50/50 is not exactly an accomplishment of historic proportions.
That surprises me. Although thats still relatively recent if I had to guess I would have said it was more male dominated.
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Old 10-10-2018, 04:14 PM
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Kavanaugh's former clerks have gone on to very successful careers. He deserves credit for hiring and mentoring a wide range of young men and women.

Brett's mother, a former prosecutor and Maryland trial judge obviously served as a powerful role model. He's mentioned her in interviews several times.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/heavy.c...other-mom/amp/


https://www.law.com/nationallawjourn...y-group-of-48/

Quote:
“From the moment you are hired, you are part of his clerk family,” Martinez said. And for Kavanaugh that means thinking about what the clerk’s next stop will be and how to get there. Kavanaugh will help with the application and making recommendations. ”He’s very good at advising and supporting the people who have worked hard for him.” Martinez went on to clerk for Roberts.
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Life after Brett: Where Kavanaugh’s clerks went. Former Kavanaugh clerks have found homes in government, academia, law firms and business. The largest group—15—went into government positions. There are six assistant U.S. attorneys and one U.S. attorney: John Bash in the Western District of Texas. One prosecutor, Candice Wong, is on detail at the White House to help assist in Kavanaugh’s confirmation.

Twelve former clerks joined law firms, either as partners or associates. Those firms include Gibson Dunn; Wilmer Cutler Pickering Hale and Dorr; Jenner & Block; Jones Day; Williams & Connolly; Keller Lenkner; Latham & Watkins; Hogan Lovells; Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom, and Holwell Shuster & Goldberg.

There are three law professors: Justin Walker of the University of Louisville Brandeis School of Law; Jennifer Mascott of the George Mason University Antonin Scalia Law School; and Richard Re of the UCLA School of Law.

Last edited by aceplace57; 10-10-2018 at 04:18 PM.
  #34  
Old 10-10-2018, 08:56 PM
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Kavanaugh staying sober and not raping any of his clerks = progress!

God Bless America.
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Old 10-10-2018, 09:51 PM
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I'd be more comfortable with it if he just did it instead of making an announcement about how great he is for doing it.
Well yeah. That's the kind of "look mommy I made poopoo" that's ok in a 2.5yo.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:01 PM
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Kavanaugh's former clerks have gone on to very successful careers. He deserves credit for hiring and mentoring a wide range of young men and women.
Keep in mind that prior to his elevation to the Supreme Court, Kavanaugh was on the Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit. It's not as if he was a manager at McDonald's mentoring fry cooks. These were top graduates of top law schools. It would be more surprising if many of them didn't do well after their clerkships.
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Old 10-10-2018, 10:25 PM
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The advocacy group Fix The Court set up a page on the domain name brettkavanaugh.com (which according to Vice News it purchased three years ago) set up a page titled "We Believe Survivors" which provides references of victims of sexual assault. Hopefully that provides the o.p. with some sense of schadenfreude.

Now that's a legendary troll. Ginsberg is going to have a hard time topping that one despite her well-known burning insults.

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Old 10-10-2018, 11:16 PM
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It'd be nice if he just hired the best clerks for the job regardless of their gender, race, or anything else. By just hiring women, he's trying to imply it's his own affirmative action program, but it comes off as creepy. I think the underlying reason is he likes the feeling of being surrounded by women. I also wonder if he feels threatened by men and would feel uncomfortable telling them what to do.
And if the clerks happened to be all men, or all white men, you'd say that was sexist/racist. And how do you know they are NOT the best candidates? Not because of any sexism you might have, surely.

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That's what happens when a person has lost all credibility. They no longer enjoy the benefit of the doubt. Sucks to be a lying scumbag, but that's what we have.
In your opinion.

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Well yeah. That's the kind of "look mommy I made poopoo" that's ok in a 2.5yo.
So is your comment.
  #39  
Old 10-11-2018, 01:16 PM
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I'm shocked, SHOCKED that Democrats and Hillary-worshippers are whining about everything Kavanaugh does, or doesn't do.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:32 PM
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I'm shocked, SHOCKED that Democrats and Hillary-worshippers are whining about everything Kavanaugh does, or doesn't do.
This may surprise you, but we're not pissed off that Hillary lost the last election, we're pissed off about who won it.

I've never met a "Hillary worshiper."

The meme that we're just upset that Hillary was denied "her turn" is a right wing invention.

Last edited by Procrustus; 10-11-2018 at 01:34 PM.
  #41  
Old 10-11-2018, 01:33 PM
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I'm shocked, SHOCKED that Democrats and Hillary-worshippers are whining about everything Kavanaugh does, or doesn't do.
What would be truly shocking is if any Republican were to whine about anything Kavanaugh does. Buncha mindless lockstepping drones.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:33 PM
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In your opinion.
Kavanaugh's lies during his hearings are a fact, not an opinion.

And I'm not talking about Dr. Ford's allegations. I'm talking about all the other stuff that has been proven false.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:37 PM
Dewey Finn Dewey Finn is offline
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I'm shocked, SHOCKED that Democrats and Hillary-worshippers are whining about everything Kavanaugh does, or doesn't do.
This may surprise you, but we're not pissed off that Hillary lost the last election, we're pissed off about who won it.

I've never met a "Hillary worshiper."

The meme that we're just upset that Hillary was denied "her turn" is a right wing invention.
Your attempt at insult by referencing so-called "Hillary worshippers" is particularly funny given that the Republican Party seems to have abandoned its core principles and beliefs so it doesn't lose support from the "Trump worshippers."
  #44  
Old 10-11-2018, 01:46 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
I think you're jumping from one wild theory to the next, trying to ascribe the worst possible motives you can to the man, without much in the way of evidence for any of it.
That's the tactic called "how right wingers talk about Democrats." See for example, "long-form birth certificate."
  #45  
Old 10-11-2018, 01:57 PM
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CookingWithGas CookingWithGas is offline
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Originally Posted by doorhinge View Post
I'm shocked, SHOCKED that Democrats and Hillary-worshippers are whining about everything Kavanaugh does, or doesn't do.
If you disagree with the premise, then address the premise itself rather than launch a vacuous ad hominem attack. Kavanaugh is the one who has done all the whining.

This has nothing to do with party but rather a judicial candidate who was given a free pass on a questionable past.

BTW I am a centrist Democrat but the farthest thing from a Hillary worshiper. I would have voted Republican in the last election if the Republicans had not put up a candidate that was not totally laughable, and in the election two before that if the Republicans hadn't put up a rodeo clown as the running mate.
  #46  
Old 10-11-2018, 02:12 PM
doorhinge doorhinge is offline
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Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya View Post
What would be truly shocking is if any Republican were to whine about anything Kavanaugh does. Buncha mindless lockstepping drones.
I couldn't help but notice how many mindless, lockstepping drones had already said that they would maintain their party's line by not voting for a Republican SCOTUS nominee before Kavanaugh's name had even been suggested.

Meanwhile, Kavanaugh has hired four women as his law clerks. Good for him. It was his choice after all, and not the internets.
  #47  
Old 10-11-2018, 02:15 PM
Ravenman Ravenman is offline
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Originally Posted by doorhinge View Post
I couldn't help but notice how many mindless, lockstepping drones had already said that they would maintain their party's line by not voting for a Republican SCOTUS nominee before Kavanaugh's name had even been suggested.
This is called the McConnell Rule, which he rolled out that he was going to oppose everything Obama did before he was even inaugurated.
  #48  
Old 10-11-2018, 02:16 PM
Procrustus Procrustus is offline
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Originally Posted by doorhinge View Post

Meanwhile, Kavanaugh has hired four women as his law clerks. Good for him. It was his choice after all, and not the internets.
Sure, I don't care too much about that. However, you must admit that if Ginsburg did that, the righties would be complaining that white men can never get a fair shake anymore.
  #49  
Old 10-11-2018, 02:59 PM
Tom Tildrum Tom Tildrum is offline
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Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
Sure, I don't care too much about that. However, you must admit that if Ginsburg did that, the righties would be complaining that white men can never get a fair shake anymore.
It's actually a common talking point on the right that all but one of Ginsburg's clerks has been white.
  #50  
Old 10-11-2018, 04:08 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is offline
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Originally Posted by Ravenman View Post
This is called the McConnell Rule, which he rolled out that he was going to oppose everything Obama did before he was even inaugurated.
It was Biden's rule before that.
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