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Old 10-12-2018, 01:28 AM
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North Dakota Voter ID Law Bars Native Americans from Polls

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...pholding-north
The Standing Rock Sioux Tribe slammed the Supreme Court’s decision allowing North Dakota to enforce a voter ID law.

The law requires voters to present identification that includes a current residential street address if they want to vote in this year’s midterm elections.

“Native Americans can live on the reservation without an address. They’ve lived in accordance with the law and treaties, but now all of a sudden they can’t vote. There is no good reason that a P.O. box is not sufficient to vote,” Standing Rock Chairman Mike Faith said in a press release.
So in addition to a photo ID, your photo ID must list your current address. Which many native Americans, and specifically native Americans on the reservation, simply do not have. This means that a great many native Americans (a demographic who overwhelmingly vote Democratic, what a coincidence) simply have no way to exercise their right to vote.

Like the Georgia case, this is blatant voter disenfranchisement. This continues a clear pattern of republican voter disenfranchisement present in no less than 23 states.
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Old 10-12-2018, 08:20 AM
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Even if someone like Bricker can make a legal argument in defense of the decision, it's impossible to ignore the intent behind such efforts on the part of the GOP. It's not an intent to protect and promote democracy; it's rather an effort to use legal machinery to deny rights. It's not unlike using a combination of poll taxes, grandfather clauses, and literacy tests to tilt power away from ethnic minorities or people who are assumed to be voting against their party. This country has for more than a century expanded the franchise; under republican misrule we're witnessing an effort at reversing that trend. It's not just wrong; it's dangerous. When enough people perceive that they can't use voting to be heard, they might be tempted to resort to more extreme measures. But maybe that's what Republicans want - they want protests to become violent so that they can justify further erosion of liberty in the name of their security.
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Old 10-12-2018, 08:46 AM
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Stuff like this never seems to come up in states controlled by Democratic legislatures and governors. I wonder why that is?
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by RickJay View Post
Stuff like this never seems to come up in states controlled by Democratic legislatures and governors. I wonder why that is?
Not to say that they would but the fact is that traditional Dem voters are just easier to target. Can you think of some equivalent move that would knock out a big Republican demographic with so little impact on the Dem vote?
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:37 AM
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Sigh.

Granted, the address requirement is stupid. Not granted, it was malicious.

1) North Dakota has been a solidly red state, voting republican for the past 30+ years (presidential elections). The highest % Dems have recorded in the last 2 decades is 45% in 2008, and that was an anomaly. In 2016 Repubs carried ND by more than 2-1, which is more the norm. Why waste a malicious effort is a state where it wouldn't matter?
2) This has nothing to do with the issue in GA, that mention is a straw man. In GA, there is a provisional ballot that allows anyone to vote and establish credentials afterward. No idea of the provisional ballot option in ND.

Argue the facts, not the perception.

Last edited by Doctor Jackson; 10-12-2018 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:39 AM
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Someone came up with a simple plan in one of the Pit threads. Require all voter registration to be done at the board of elections office, to avoid the possibility of tampering with the mail. Then reduce the board of elections office to one office per state, to cut costs. And put that one office in the state's most populous county, to make it as convenient as possible for the people. Of course, that would make that office pretty crowded if everyone were filling out the forms there, so you have two lines: One for people to pick up the forms and take them home, and another for them to drop them off the next day.

Under this plan, nobody would even be prohibited from registering: Everyone would be legally allowed to. But you'd still get a huge disparity between urban (mostly Democratic) and rural (mostly Republican) eligible voters.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:42 AM
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...

1) North Dakota has been a solidly red state, voting republican for the past 30+ years (presidential elections). The highest % Dems have recorded in the last 2 decades is 45% in 2008, and that was an anomaly. In 2016 Repubs carried ND by more than 2-1, which is more the norm. Why waste a malicious effort is a state where it wouldn't matter?


...
Heidi Heitkamp, a Democrat, is running for re-election for the Senate right now.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:44 AM
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...there is a provisional ballot that allows anyone to vote and establish credentials afterward...
Indeed, there is, you have three days to complete the paperwork, gain whatever approval is applied, and bring it to the local election board. What do you think will happen if there are thousands of people making that attempt? Is the government of Georgia prepared for that? Will they assure the voting public that all such applications will be processed in the required time frame?

Or will they simply issue a writ of sucks to be you? I expect this, followed by lawsuits from the aggrieved, which will be taken all the way to the Supreme Court! Where an entirely innocent and non-partisan ruling will be made, i.e., sucks to be you.

Mr. Kemp does not care how he wins, he has the moral integrity of a maggot.

Last edited by elucidator; 10-12-2018 at 10:45 AM.
  #9  
Old 10-12-2018, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
Someone came up with a simple plan in one of the Pit threads. Require all voter registration to be done at the board of elections office, to avoid the possibility of tampering with the mail. Then reduce the board of elections office to one office per state, to cut costs. And put that one office in the state's most populous county, to make it as convenient as possible for the people. Of course, that would make that office pretty crowded if everyone were filling out the forms there, so you have two lines: One for people to pick up the forms and take them home, and another for them to drop them off the next day.

Under this plan, nobody would even be prohibited from registering: Everyone would be legally allowed to. But you'd still get a huge disparity between urban (mostly Democratic) and rural (mostly Republican) eligible voters.
That would be in direct violation of the National Voter Registration Act of 1993 which requires states to allow voter registration when applying for a driver's license or public assistance.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:59 AM
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Not even Breyer or Ginsburg dissented from the Supreme Court's decision to leave the 8th Circuit's ruling undisturbed. So this is such a blatant legal wrongness, but only Kagan and Sotomayor saw it?

Is it time for Ginsburg to retire?

Or (and spoiler alert: this is the right answer) the law is proper based on the standards in Crawford v Marion County, the Eighth Circuit noted that North Dakota would be likely to proceed on the merits and thus refused to enjoin them from enforcing it state-wide, and the Supreme Court, equally correctly, declined to overturn that decision.


Now, some of youse will piously claim that even though it's legal, it's Wrong.

Don't care what you think. We decide things in this country without relying on what you say is Wrong, especially when your standards are so flexible.
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Bricker View Post
Not even Breyer or Ginsburg dissented from the Supreme Court's decision to leave the 8th Circuit's ruling undisturbed. So this is such a blatant legal wrongness, but only Kagan and Sotomayor saw it?

Is it time for Ginsburg to retire?

Or (and spoiler alert: this is the right answer) the law is proper based on the standards in Crawford v Marion County, the Eighth Circuit noted that North Dakota would be likely to proceed on the merits and thus refused to enjoin them from enforcing it state-wide, and the Supreme Court, equally correctly, declined to overturn that decision.


Now, some of youse will piously claim that even though it's legal, it's Wrong.

Don't care what you think. We decide things in this country without relying on what you say is Wrong, especially when your standards are so flexible.
Who are you arguing with? Are you saying that since it's legal it can't be Wrong?
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:13 AM
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Who are you arguing with? Are you saying that since it's legal it can't be Wrong?
I'm saying there's no one in this thread whose OPINION of what is "wrong," is remotely persuasive to me.
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:15 AM
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Stuff like this never seems to come up in states controlled by Democratic legislatures and governors. I wonder why that is?
The only way I could see a Democratic equivalent happening would be if rural voters were somehow legally forced to travel long distances to vote in the city or some faraway place, rather than vote in their own rural precincts - thus burdening them to make long drives. Otherwise, as CarnalK pointed out, there's really no way to target Republican voters specifically.
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:21 AM
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I'm saying there's no one in this thread whose OPINION of what is "wrong," is remotely persuasive to me.
We are stunned at this shocking revelation.
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:23 AM
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I'm saying there's no one in this thread whose OPINION of what is "wrong," is remotely persuasive to me.
So do you think people living on reservations were not targeted by this law or do you think it's not Wrong to do so?
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:29 AM
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North Dakota allows for tribal identification cards to be used as long as they show correct current residence. If the tribal id card does not have current residence on it, they can use a utility bill, bank statement, government check, or a paycheck. If an individual does not have that id at the time of voting they can cast a provisional ballot and it will be counted as long as they provide the id before the meeting of the canvassing board.
The reason they do not accept PO boxes as address is that they are not proof of residence. Anyone can buy a PO box for five bucks a month regardless of where they live.
All the polls show Heitkamp losing big so they have rolled this story out there so they can blame the loss on something other than their ideas being unpopular.
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:43 AM
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So do you think people living on reservations were not targeted by this law or do you think it's not Wrong to do so?
I don't think there was targeting in play. The requirement for a non-PO box address is obvious if you want to ensure that the voter actually resides in North Dakota and in the district in which he's voting. I can get a PO Box in North Dakota; that doesn't make me a North Dakotan.

What I think is "Wrong," is the idea that because the requirement for a residence may effect reservations more than others, the law should be banned state-wide. Fortunately, both the Eighth Circuit and the Supreme Court agree that such a ban is not consistent with the law. So, whew.
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:58 AM
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... There is no good reason that a P.O. box is not sufficient to vote,” Standing Rock Chairman Mike Faith said in a press release.
...
This bit right here is wrong.
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:59 AM
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North Dakota allows for tribal identification cards to be used as long as they show correct current residence. If the tribal id card does not have current residence on it, they can use a utility bill, bank statement, government check, or a paycheck. If an individual does not have that id at the time of voting they can cast a provisional ballot and it will be counted as long as they provide the id before the meeting of the canvassing board.
None of those except the utility bill would have a street address if the person was using a PO box.
Quote:
The reason they do not accept PO boxes as address is that they are not proof of residence. Anyone can buy a PO box for five bucks a month regardless of where they live.
You can't buy a tribal id for 5 bucks.
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:00 PM
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None of those except the utility bill would have a street address if the person was using a PO box.

You can't buy a tribal id for 5 bucks.
Does a tribal ID prove you live on the reservation, or does it prove you're a member of the tribe?
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:02 PM
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This bit right here is wrong.
I'm sure you're about to elaborate, right?
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:08 PM
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Does a tribal ID prove you live on the reservation, or does it prove you're a member of the tribe?
I'm not sure but I would think even if it didn't that a valid tribal id coupled with a PO box in the same district as the reservation should be sufficient to guard against voter fraud.

Last edited by CarnalK; 10-12-2018 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:20 PM
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The problem seems to be that houses on the reservation don't necessarily have street addresses assigned, or an address was assigned but the county didn't necessarily tell the residents what the address was (since reservation homes don't always receive mail delivery at the home, and many residences are owned by the tribe so the resident isn't dealing with some of the standard paperwork that exists outside Indian Country, knowing your street address is apparently not necessary for purposes other than voting). Getting an address assigned is allegedly "easy" as long as you know what office to call (the county 911 coordinator probably would not have been my first guess), but it's just one more hurdle to jump through.
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:21 PM
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What I think is "Wrong," is the idea that because the requirement for a residence may effect reservations more than others, the law should be banned state-wide.
So, did any of your profound thinking entertain the idea that, because reservations are unique places with unique circumstances, the law should make an exception for those people so that their voting rights would not unjustly be taken away?!

I thought not.
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:34 PM
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I'm sure you're about to elaborate, right?
I can get a PO Box in Bismark for $8/month. Should I be able to vote against Heitkamp in North Dakota, or was Mr. Faith in fact, mistaken when he said "There is no good reason that a P.O. box is not sufficient to vote"?
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:45 PM
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BTW, for reference purposes, here is the ND SoS's "ID Required for Voting" page:

Quote:
Requirements for Identification
(NDCC § 16.1-01-04.1)

➣ Identification must include the voter’s:
Name
Current North Dakota Residential Address
Date of Birth

Acceptable Forms of Identification:
➣ Voting at the Polling Place – A Valid North Dakota:
Driver’s license
Nondriver’s identification card
Tribal government issued identification (including those issued by BIA for a tribe located in North Dakota, any other tribal agency or entity, or any other document that sets forth the tribal member’s name, date of birth, and current North Dakota residential address)
Long term care identification certificate (provided by North Dakota facility)

➣ Supplemental Documentation
If an individual’s valid form of identification does not include the North Dakota residential address or date of birth, or the North Dakota residential address is not current, the individual may supplement the identification with a current utility bill; a current bank statement; a check or a document issued by a federal, state, local, or tribal government (including those issued by BIA for a tribe located in North Dakota, any other tribal agency or entity, or any other document that sets forth the tribal member’s name, date of birth, and current North Dakota residential address); or a paycheck.

➣ Set Aside Ballot Option
If an individual is not able to show a valid form of identification but asserts qualifications as an elector, the individual may mark a ballot that will be securely set aside. When the individual provides valid identification to the proper election official prior to the meeting of the canvassing board, the set aside ballot will be presented to the canvassing board for proper inclusion in the tally.

...

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 10-12-2018 at 12:46 PM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:53 PM
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Quote:
Quoth CarnalK:

That would be in direct violation of the National Voter Registration Act of 1993 which requires states to allow voter registration when applying for a driver's license or public assistance.
So put just one DMV office in the whole state, too. There have already been cases where, after passing voter ID laws, states have closed down all of the DMVs in some counties. And guess which way those counties that now don't have a DMV tend to vote?
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Old 10-12-2018, 12:57 PM
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So in addition to a photo ID, your photo ID must list your current address. Which many native Americans, and specifically native Americans on the reservation, simply do not have.
How does this happen anyway? People on the reservation don't live in houses? Aren't the houses on streets? Don't the streets have names?

Honest question.
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Old 10-12-2018, 01:02 PM
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So put just one DMV office in the whole state, too. There have already been cases where, after passing voter ID laws, states have closed down all of the DMVs in some counties. And guess which way those counties that now don't have a DMV tend to vote?
I have a feeling that if the Dems took away every DMV office in the state, it would not turn into the electoral windfall you imagine.
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Old 10-12-2018, 01:11 PM
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How does this happen anyway? People on the reservation don't live in houses? Aren't the houses on streets? Don't the streets have names?

Honest question.
I assign addresses for the county government. Very often, while a person has an address, it's can be pretty bogus. Especially if there is no Postal Delivery. It's never checked, and nobody used to care.

Things are getting better now with the onslaught of GoogleMaps and many municipalities using GIS.

I am one of many that doesn't get my mail delivered, IF my physical address is in the USPS master address list, I suspect it puts me in the wrong town (most of my online searches put me in a town about 12 miles away).

I don't know if when registering to vote, your address gets validated. I mail in my ballot, and my POB is in a different county that I live in (not that unusual where I live). Yep, the county I VOTE in mails my ballot to a POB in a different county.
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Old 10-12-2018, 01:11 PM
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So if I live in a place where mail delivery is to the post office, not my residential address, that means my bank statement and utility bill and other documents are going to bear the post office box address as well. For example, this article quotes a North Dakota local official as saying street addresses have been assigned in 99% percent of his county "in the past several years," which implies that until quite recently many residences didn't have such addresses. If I've had your bank account and other paperwork established at one address, the post office box, for some period of time, what was my motivation to rush out and change it (particularly given that the post office might not actually deliver it to the street address anyway--they don't everywhere)?
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Old 10-12-2018, 01:15 PM
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Even if someone like Bricker can make a legal argument in defense of the decision, it's impossible to ignore the intent behind such efforts on the part of the GOP.
IANAL but I believe the rationale is that they need your address to ensure you vote in the proper local elections. I am a huge proponent of Voter ID especially as a voter ID law would have prevented from someone else voting under my name in one election BUT this case is not what Voter ID laws should do. They should merely be a means to ascertain that you are who you claim to be. That's it.

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Stuff like this never seems to come up in states controlled by Democratic legislatures and governors. I wonder why that is?
Because Dems don't care who votes: citizens, non-citizens, convicted felons, people committing voter fraud, people who can't poke a sharp piece of metal through pre-perforated paper, etc.
In fact, the ONLY time I can think of that Dems opposed voting rights was in 2000 when they tried to exclude absentee votes from military personnel in Florida.
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Old 10-12-2018, 01:17 PM
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Quoth CarnalK:

I have a feeling that if the Dems took away every DMV office in the state, it would not turn into the electoral windfall you imagine.
Right, because Democratic voters (the ones in the cities) wouldn't stand for something that corrupt, even if it did benefit them.

EDIT:
Quote:
Quoth Saint Cad:

In fact, the ONLY time I can think of that Dems opposed voting rights was in 2000 when they tried to exclude absentee votes from military personnel in Florida.
You mean, when they argued that the same deadline for mailing absentee ballots applied equally to everyone?

Last edited by Chronos; 10-12-2018 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 01:24 PM
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How does this happen anyway? People on the reservation don't live in houses? Aren't the houses on streets? Don't the streets have names?

Honest question.
When I was a kid growing up, we lived for awhile at "Route 2, Box 86" on the outskirts of a small town. The house was on an unnamed gravel road branching off off another road (that did have a name), but the houses on that larger road did not have street addresses assigned--you lived on Jordan Road, but your mail was addressed to Route 2, Box 63 (or whatever), and if you needed the sheriff or fire department, you lived in the third house west of the creek with the big live oak tree. Meanwhile, the county land records merely had that you lived in the northwest quarter of section 16, township 6 south, range 12 west of the 6th principal meridian (made-up numbers because I don't remember the real ones anymore).

This was in the 1980s, so not truly ancient history. With the advent of e911 systems, and particularly after 9/11 and the various federal funding initiatives since, there has been a real push to assign proper street addresses; my childhood home finally was assigned a street address in about 2005 or 6. Various newspaper articles and court filings say a similar process has been happening on the reservations in North Dakota; over the past several years, they've finally gotten around to assigning proper street addresses to a lot of homes that never had them before. However, the residents of those homes may not actually know what the address is (because mail delivery is still to the Route and Box, or indeed just to the post office box you've always used), and even the county emergency coordinators admit they might have missed a few places on the remote and sprawling reservations.
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Old 10-12-2018, 01:33 PM
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Because Dems don't care who votes: citizens, non-citizens, convicted felons, people committing voter fraud, people who can't poke a sharp piece of metal through pre-perforated paper, etc.
You do realize, of course, that convicted felons are legally allowed to vote in many states (heck, in two states prison inmates can cast ballots), and only in 1996 did federal law bar non-citizens from voting in federal elections; a few municipalities still allow non-citizens to vote in local elections.

Yes, the modern Democratic Party does believe in a wide franchise, and that a nation is stronger when as many as possible of the people affected by a government's actions have a hand in choosing that government. Meanwhile, the Republican Party seems to be hearkening back to the old idea of a more exclusive electorate, when only "deserving" people (meaning, people with money and status) get to vote. If you are a U.S. citizen but live in an area where the nearest DMV office is 60 miles away (which is apparently the mean distance to the DMV office on the Standing Rock Reservation), well, you better be wealthy enough to afford good transportation to that office if you want to vote.
  #36  
Old 10-12-2018, 01:44 PM
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Not even Breyer or Ginsburg dissented from the Supreme Court's decision to leave the 8th Circuit's ruling undisturbed.
Oh, really? I guess SCOTUSblog is 'fake news', huh?
Quote:
Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg dissented from the court’s decision not to intervene, in a brief opinion that was joined by Justice Elena Kagan.

Last edited by RTFirefly; 10-12-2018 at 01:45 PM.
  #37  
Old 10-12-2018, 01:46 PM
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Does a tribal ID prove you live on the reservation, or does it prove you're a member of the tribe?


So you would agree that military ids should not be an acceptable form of voter id?


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  #38  
Old 10-12-2018, 01:54 PM
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I'm not sure but I would think even if it didn't that a valid tribal id coupled with a PO box in the same district as the reservation should be sufficient to guard against voter fraud.
What if it's a large reservation that happens to include parts of more than one district? If I have a PO Box in district #3, but reside a few blocks away in district #4,
should I be able to vote for candidates in district #3?
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Old 10-12-2018, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by puddleglum View Post
North Dakota allows for tribal identification cards to be used as long as they show correct current residence. If the tribal id card does not have current residence on it, they can use a utility bill, bank statement, government check, or a paycheck.
Any of which must show the "Current North Dakota Residential Address" in order to be valid. And to reiterate, the problem is that these places don't have normal residential street addresses, or even a rural route number. The mail isn't delivered to their homes, but rather to P.O. boxes.
Quote:
If an individual does not have that id at the time of voting they can cast a provisional ballot and it will be counted as long as they provide the id before the meeting of the canvassing board.
From what Ditka has copied from the law, it looks as if the requirements are the same for the ID for provisional voting as they are for regular voting. Lot of good that does.
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The reason they do not accept PO boxes as address is that they are not proof of residence. Anyone can buy a PO box for five bucks a month regardless of where they live.
OK, but how do these people vote? Sounds like your answer is "they can't; sucks to be them."
  #40  
Old 10-12-2018, 02:00 PM
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How do people on the reservation even know what district they are in without an address? Does each district have a different P.O. Box?
  #41  
Old 10-12-2018, 02:04 PM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is offline
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Originally Posted by Bricker View Post
I don't think there was targeting in play.
Keep thinking sweet thoughts. But your 'I think' or 'I don't think' means nothing.
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The requirement for a non-PO box address is obvious if you want to ensure that the voter actually resides in North Dakota and in the district in which he's voting. I can get a PO Box in North Dakota; that doesn't make me a North Dakotan.
So, does ND have a problem with out-of-state people getting PO boxes and using those PO boxes to get ND IDs, then driving back to ND on Election Day to vote?

Sounds like a way of 'fixing' a nonexistent problem by throwing obstacles in the way of voting that primarily affect people who vote for the party that didn't control the state government at the time the law was passed.

This seems to have happened in a shitload of GOP-controlled states now, but as best as I can tell, it's not happened in a single Dem-controlled state. Quite a coincidence there, Counselor.
  #42  
Old 10-12-2018, 02:05 PM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is offline
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How do people on the reservation even know what district they are in without an address? Does each district have a different P.O. Box?
I don't know, but have there been any reports that this has been a big problem in the past?
  #43  
Old 10-12-2018, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
I don't know, but have there been any reports that this has been a big problem in the past?
No, I didn't mean it was a problem. I just mean really, how does one know where to vote and what candidates they are supposed to be voting for? I'm in Maryland, and while I don't know for sure, I assume they tell me my voting place and list of candidates based on my address. Just wondering how it works in N.D.
  #44  
Old 10-12-2018, 02:20 PM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is offline
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Originally Posted by Saint Cad View Post
Because Dems don't care who votes: citizens, non-citizens, convicted felons, people committing voter fraud, people who can't poke a sharp piece of metal through pre-perforated paper, etc.
Boy howdy, it's easy to make stuff up and say it like it was fact.
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In fact, the ONLY time I can think of that Dems opposed voting rights was in 2000 when they tried to exclude absentee votes from military personnel in Florida.
You mean the ballots that had no postmarks, and should have been tossed out according to Florida election law because nobody could tell if they were cast on Election Day, or a day or two later?

Hey, I'm good with that, as long as we open up that day-after deal to anyone, in any close election. We shoulda done that in 2016, amirite? Give people in WI and PA and MI a second chance to cast their ballot, once they knew how crucial it was?
  #45  
Old 10-12-2018, 02:43 PM
JRDelirious JRDelirious is offline
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
How do people on the reservation even know what district they are in without an address? Does each district have a different P.O. Box?

Probably — and this is not only applied to reservations but to many rural communities. There are parts of the US where people just did not traditionally have an address of the form “(Road Name/Number), (House Number)” on a fixed baseline grid.

In drawing up the election districts, precincts and wards, the states will make the division discrete only to the Census Tract level, rather than to the house-by-house level if they don’t have to. So they refer to THAT map where generally any clustered community will be one tract.

If it’s a small reservation, its tracts may add up to a self-contained single ward anyway.

In a larger reservation or just a larger rural area you may have an issue if Mr. Voter lives in a cabin on a hill exactly three miles from the closest neighbor in each direction and the last mile is by mule trail, but somewhere the local authority has a map saying what tract amd ward he’s in.

If the various authorities have their act together, in such communities the local authorities will sit with the postmaster and draw up a distribution, by which for instance, residents in tract 1 will be on postal route 11, boxes numbered 10***, tract 2 will be on postal route 11, Boxes numbered 20***, tract 3 will be postal route 11, Boxes 30*** and so forth, and the elections apportionment people will use that to define who is in what district.
  #46  
Old 10-12-2018, 02:44 PM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is offline
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
No, I didn't mean it was a problem. I just mean really, how does one know where to vote and what candidates they are supposed to be voting for? I'm in Maryland, and while I don't know for sure, I assume they tell me my voting place and list of candidates based on my address. Just wondering how it works in N.D.
Damned if I know. So long as somebody had it figured out, I'll confess that's the end of my curiosity.

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I'm in Maryland
You're a Maryland manson, then?
  #47  
Old 10-12-2018, 02:58 PM
foolsguinea foolsguinea is offline
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Indian land aside, this sounds like a law denying the franchise to homeless persons. That, like any restriction of civil rights based on present economic position, seems intrinsically abusive.
  #48  
Old 10-12-2018, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JRDelirious View Post
Probably — and this is not only applied to reservations but to many rural communities. There are parts of the US where people just did not traditionally have an address of the form “(Road Name/Number), (House Number)” on a fixed baseline grid.

In drawing up the election districts, precincts and wards, the states will make the division discrete only to the Census Tract level, rather than to the house-by-house level if they don’t have to. So they refer to THAT map where generally any clustered community will be one tract.

If it’s a small reservation, its tracts may add up to a self-contained single ward anyway.

In a larger reservation or just a larger rural area you may have an issue if Mr. Voter lives in a cabin on a hill exactly three miles from the closest neighbor in each direction and the last mile is by mule trail, but somewhere the local authority has a map saying what tract amd ward he’s in.

If the various authorities have their act together, in such communities the local authorities will sit with the postmaster and draw up a distribution, by which for instance, residents in tract 1 will be on postal route 11, boxes numbered 10***, tract 2 will be on postal route 11, Boxes numbered 20***, tract 3 will be postal route 11, Boxes 30*** and so forth, and the elections apportionment people will use that to define who is in what district.
Great, thanks for the info!

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Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
You're a Maryland manson, then?
  #49  
Old 10-12-2018, 03:11 PM
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I'm saying there's no one in this thread whose OPINION of what is "wrong," is remotely persuasive to me.
Yeah, no shit. You have made it clear, repeatedly, that you don't care what methods republicans use to suppress democratic votes. What was, to date, unclear, was whether you were okay with it when it was clear and unambiguous that, as a result of these laws, certain citizens would be stripped of their right to vote.

Now we know. Good for you. I'm sure when democracy in the US ends, you'll be real happy.

Except... maybe one thing to think about. Last I checked, you were hispanic. D'y'know how the people doing this feel about hispanic people? When they've effectively ended democracy, in the vein of Putin, Erdogan, or Orban, do you think this somehow ends well for you?
  #50  
Old 10-12-2018, 03:21 PM
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Right, because Democratic voters (the ones in the cities) wouldn't stand for something that corrupt, even if it did benefit them.
Uh no. It would be because you'd be fucking up people's and businesses' real day to day life. Seriously, it's a dumb answer to my original question of what the Dems could do. Real dumb.
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