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Old 10-12-2018, 04:17 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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Comments about appearance of celebrities

In this thread: we have
Chronos
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[Moderating]

manson1972, the original comment about eyebrows might arguably have been slightly inappropriate. But your post #59 was absolutely, unambiguously inappropriate. If you see something that you think is inappropriate, you should report it, not up the ante.

We had a ongoing discussion about the eyebrows of the female lead (the eyebrows have been mentioned in several media sources, it wasnt some odd SDMB thing)

Manson kept and keeps going on that "I thought we weren't supposed to comment on the looks of a woman if it's not germane to the topic?" so much so, as to turn into a hijack (thus the mod note).

Anyway, this brings me to two questions:
1."I thought we weren't supposed to comment on the looks of a woman if it's not germane to the topic?
"
Since when? Is this a new rule? Does it apply only to women? Obviously crazy-ass stalker sexist comments are over the line, but a comment about eyebrows being distracting? I mention this because Chronos sez " the original comment about eyebrows might arguably have been slightly inappropriate" and I am trying to figure out why?

2. Celebrities sell themselves based upon their appearance. Even if that appearance isnt necessarily "pretty" or handsome, it's part of the stock in trade of Hollywood. Commenting on a stars appearance is no different than commenting on a singers voice or a sports stars ability.

3.And somehow, somewhere there is a meme that comparing "Ginger vs Mary ann " is somehow wrong.
Manda JO said, quite reasonably:
I would also point out that I don't mean that threads have to be gender-neutral. Gender specific don't have to be icky, and gender neutral can be. Like, I don't mind "Who do you like better, Ginger or Mary Ann?" or even "Who is more attractive: Ginger or Mary Ann?" But I'm really uncomfortable with "You have to choose: Ginger or Mary Ann?". It sounds like a slave auction or something. Like, once you make that choice, they will silently go along.

So yeah, good suggestion that us clueless dudes work a little harder on finding a clue.

But none of these things are anything like the rabid sexist crap like rape fantasies or victim blaming, etc. Stuff why a certain poster was recently banned.
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Old 10-12-2018, 04:41 PM
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DrDeth, please include a link so that others can see the entire thread and posts in question.

This appears to be the post referred to:
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...9&postcount=64

Last edited by engineer_comp_geek; 10-12-2018 at 04:43 PM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by engineer_comp_geek View Post
DrDeth, please include a link so that others can see the entire thread and posts in question.

This appears to be the post in question:
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...9&postcount=64
Thank you, I thought I had, obviously, I am wrong.
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:03 PM
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That seems a not very nuanced reading of the "new rules".It's the difference between "what's up with those eyebrows" and "check out that ass".

IMHO, Cafe Society should be much less strictly moderated on this principle though considering the point of the forum. How hot a guy/gal is a pretty normal part of the whole entertainment biz.
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:16 PM
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That seems a not very nuanced reading of the "new rules".It's the difference between "what's up with those eyebrows" and "check out that ass".

IMHO, Cafe Society should be much less strictly moderated on this principle though considering the point of the forum. How hot a guy/gal is a pretty normal part of the whole entertainment biz.
Yes, that is what I thought.
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:30 PM
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It seems to me that the main reason his comment is out of line is that he's basically mocking people for discussing TV actors appearance, implying it must be because they are skeevy perverts. He was told that, if he thinks something is inappropriate, he should report it instead. Allow the mods to decide.

He was essentially junior moderating by assuming that looks were not germane to the discussion.
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:40 PM
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Going through the thread, yeah, what BigT said. Excepting, I'm not sure if it was honest or facetious junior modding though.

Last edited by CarnalK; 10-12-2018 at 07:41 PM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 07:50 PM
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Going through the thread, yeah, what BigT said. Excepting, I'm not sure if it was honest or facetious junior modding though.
Well, my point was't to call him out. It was to make sure we don't have any new rules or guidelines on this that I don't know about.
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
I mention this because Chronos sez " the original comment about eyebrows might arguably have been slightly inappropriate" and I am trying to figure out why?
The line between what is acceptable and what is creepy is, like most lines, blurry. A comment about eyebrows, then, does in fact intersect some tenuous outer portions of that line, in much the same way that the International Space Station intersects some portion of the atmosphere. That said, one would still generally describe the medium the ISS is in as vacuum, even though it might arguably be slightly passing through the air. Am I clear?
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
The line between what is acceptable and what is creepy is, like most lines, blurry. A comment about eyebrows, then, does in fact intersect some tenuous outer portions of that line, in much the same way that the International Space Station intersects some portion of the atmosphere. That said, one would still generally describe the medium the ISS is in as vacuum, even though it might arguably be slightly passing through the air. Am I clear?
Neither your analogy nor your point is particularly clear to me.

Character appearance is relevant to visual media -- such as television and movies -- pretty much by definition. I don't see how those two comments about the lead's eyebrows were even "arguably slightly" unacceptable. Here are those two posts in their entirety:

Quote:
Originally Posted by StarvingButStrong View Post
I just wish she'd pluck her eyebrows some.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Misnomer View Post
I also noticed the eyebrows.
Manson objected, and then to prove his or her point, vomited up this threadshit:

Quote:
Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
Ok, sure.

I sure hope they show more of that hot woman doctor! She's fantastically hot! I hope she is in different stages of undress in the next few episodes. It will make the show so much better! She should really try to emphasize her breasts more, to really draw in the male viewers.

If someone gets all skeevy, like manson did here, then sure, hand out a warning or a note or whatever, obviously. But the original comments that drove manson over the edge weren't inappropriate in any way, even if you squint.


I'm actually starting to wonder if this might be a false flag operation to undermine the current board climate of trying to be more sensitive to and less tolerant of pervasive misogyny.
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
The line between what is acceptable and what is creepy is, like most lines, blurry. A comment about eyebrows, then, does in fact intersect some tenuous outer portions of that line, in much the same way that the International Space Station intersects some portion of the atmosphere. That said, one would still generally describe the medium the ISS is in as vacuum, even though it might arguably be slightly passing through the air. Am I clear?
What's clear is that you should maybe only moderate GQ or something because that is some nerdy yet incomprehensible explaining right there.

Last edited by CarnalK; 10-12-2018 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:02 PM
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Neither your analogy nor your point is particularly clear to me.

Character appearance is relevant to visual media -- such as television and movies -- pretty much by definition. I don't see how those two comments about the lead's eyebrows were even "arguably slightly" unacceptable. Here are those two posts in their entirety:
...I'm a photographer. I participate on a lot of photography messageboards and forums. And a general rule on almost every forum I participate on is that you can critique the image, but you cannot critique the model/subject of the image. Because they are two different things.

So character appearance doesn't have to be related to visual media. Especially by definition.

The character Michaela Stone isn't defined by her eyebrows. Her eyebrows aren't a plot element, they aren't a story element, in no way is Melissa Roxburgh's appearance relevant to the show. Its just how she looks. And how she looks is not related to TV and movies "pretty much by definition." Thats a nonsense statement.

Quote:
If someone gets all skeevy, like manson did here, then sure, hand out a warning or a note or whatever, obviously. But the original comments that drove manson over the edge weren't inappropriate in any way, even if you squint.
You simply aren't squinting hard enough.

The original comments were skeevy. There is nothing remarkable about Melissa Roxburgh's eyebrows at all. She obviously doesn't fit StarvingButStrong's or Misnomer's standard of how "people on TV should look": but I hold the opinion that people shouldn't have to fit a certain arbitrary standard of looks in order to play a role on TV.

And StarvingButStrong's desire that Roxburgh "wish she'd pluck her eyebrows some" is something I found distasteful. I don't want to hear that garbage. Keep your thoughts in your head. I didn't report it. I don't want that sort of thing banned. But lets not pretend there is a consensus here: because there is not.

Quote:
I'm actually starting to wonder if this might be a false flag operation to undermine the current board climate of trying to be more sensitive to and less tolerant of pervasive misogyny.
Or maybe the you just don't understand what misogyny actually is.
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Old 10-12-2018, 10:46 PM
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...I'm a photographer. I participate on a lot of photography messageboards and forums. And a general rule on almost every forum I participate on is that you can critique the image, but you cannot critique the model/subject of the image. Because they are two different things.

So character appearance doesn't have to be related to visual media. Especially by definition.
Fair enough. Just being a visual medium doesn't guarantee that character appearance is relevant.

I'll amend it to "any visual medium that requires suspension of disbelief." I think photography is fundamentally different than television and movies. You're not being asked to suspend disbelief when looking at a photograph.

But, for example, when a lead actress cuts her hair (Felicity back in the day, Kaley Cuoco last year) it tends to pull people out of the narrative and make it more difficult to lose yourself in the story you're trying to watch.

Similarly, if Melissa Roxburgh's eyebrows distract the audience during her scenes, then yeah, that's relevant. Similar to hearing people getting pulled out of a story set in the Wild West by all the perfect pearly white teeth of the actors.

I remember last year watching The Chair on Starz, about two amateur filmmakers competing to see who could make the better movie. Both ended up horrible bombs (of course) but one contestant's film had an unusual but interesting problem: A large percentage of the audience couldn't tell the difference between two main characters. There was a significant "face blindness" problem going on, and the end result was that much of the audience just couldn't follow the story because they literally didn't know which character was which.

None of these things would be relevant to photography, but they absolutely are relevant to television shows and movies.

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Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post
And StarvingButStrong's desire that Roxburgh "wish she'd pluck her eyebrows some" is something I found distasteful. I don't want to hear that garbage. Keep your thoughts in your head. I didn't report it. I don't want that sort of thing banned. But lets not pretend there is a consensus here: because there is not.
To me, this seems like a massive overreaction, to the point that I'll give less credence to your opinions on this matter. "Garbage"? Really? Good grief.

Last edited by Ellis Dee; 10-12-2018 at 10:50 PM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:10 PM
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...The character Michaela Stone isn't defined by her eyebrows. Her eyebrows aren't a plot element, they aren't a story element, in no way is Melissa Roxburgh's appearance relevant to the show. Its just how she looks. And how she looks is not related to TV and movies...
Good Christ, seriously?

I'll be on the lookout now for any mention of Greg Brady's perm or Doug Heffernan's big belly.


mmm
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:29 PM
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But, for example, when a lead actress cuts her hair (Felicity back in the day, Kaley Cuoco last year) it tends to pull people out of the narrative and make it more difficult to lose yourself in the story you're trying to watch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keri Russell
“No, I’m serious. People will freak the hell out. You’ll get hate mail. You’ll even get death threats. But, gradually, your hair will grow back and your fans will forgive you, but you will never — and I repeat never — forgive your fans.”
https://www.news.com.au/entertainmen...18af73736fcc6f

...Russell got death threats because she cut her hair. That's all manner of fucked up, don't you think?

Quote:
Similarly, if Melissa Roxburgh's eyebrows distract the audience during her scenes, then yeah, that's relevant. Similar to hearing people getting pulled out of a story set in the Wild West by all the perfect pearly white teeth of the actors.
The two situations aren't comparable. "Perfect pearly white teeth" might distract because back in the days of the Wild West people didn't used to have pearly white teeth. But in real life people have eyebrows like Melissa Roxburgh. What is it exactly about how she looks that is distracting the audience? Why do you think she should pluck them? I don't get it.

Quote:
I remember last year watching The Chair on Starz, about two amateur filmmakers competing to see who could make the better movie. Both ended up horrible bombs (of course) but one contestant's film had an unusual but interesting problem: A large percentage of the audience couldn't tell the difference between two main characters. There was a significant "face blindness" problem going on, and the end result was that much of the audience just couldn't follow the story because they literally didn't know which character was which.
Is "facial blindness" a problem you had while you were watching Manifest with Melissa Roxburgh? You were having trouble telling the difference between her and other characters? If not, then I can't see how this is relevant. Saying you can't tell the difference between a couple of characters is very different from saying "that actress should pluck her eyebrows" :: snigger snigger ::

Quote:
None of these things would be relevant to photography, but they absolutely are relevant to television shows and movies.
Of course they are relevant to photography.

Quote:
To me, this seems like a massive overreaction, to the point that I'll give less credence to your opinions on this matter. "Garbage"? Really? Good grief.
Fortunately, and with the greatest respect, I don't give a fuck about how much credence you give to my opinion. (If you are interested, I stopped giving credence to your opinion when you used the phrase "false flag operation") I don't want to hear that sort of garbage in person and I would much rather not hear it on a messageboard I'm a member of either. Just stating my opinion.
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:40 PM
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Good Christ, seriously?
...yes seriously.

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I'll be on the lookout now for any mention of Greg Brady's perm or Doug Heffernan's big belly.
You are talking about characters, not actors. You aren't demanding "Kevin James loose weight because his figure is distracting". That is a thing I've honestly never-ever heard. (although it wouldn't surprise me if someone had said it, the internet is a big place.)

And if you did express the opinion that Kevin James should loose weight because his figure was distracting you from "King of Queens" I'd think thats a garbage opinion as well.
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
The line between what is acceptable and what is creepy is, like most lines, blurry. A comment about eyebrows, then, does in fact intersect some tenuous outer portions of that line, in much the same way that the International Space Station intersects some portion of the atmosphere. That said, one would still generally describe the medium the ISS is in as vacuum, even though it might arguably be slightly passing through the air. Am I clear?
Fair enough.
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:19 AM
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What's clear is that you should maybe only moderate GQ or something because that is some nerdy yet incomprehensible explaining right there.
I got it. I think he was saying that comments like that are 1/1000th of 1% inappropriate.

So, no call for comment or moderation.
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:24 AM
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The two situations aren't comparable. "Perfect pearly white teeth" might distract because back in the days of the Wild West people didn't used to have pearly white teeth. But in real life people have eyebrows like Melissa Roxburgh. What is it exactly about how she looks that is distracting the audience? Why do you think she should pluck them? I don't get it.




Fortunately, and with the greatest respect, I don't give a fuck about how much credence you give to my opinion. (If you are interested, I stopped giving credence to your opinion when you used the phrase "false flag operation") I don't want to hear that sort of garbage in person and I would much rather not hear it on a messageboard I'm a member of either. Just stating my opinion.
Well, this is good. It shows that no matter how innocuous the comment, someone, somewhere can be offended. Thus, we can't possible make everyone happy.

We must just try for the happy mean.
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:33 AM
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And, I want to make it clear that your opinion,Banquet Bear is perfectly valid, even tho it is at the extreme end. If it is offensive to you, then it is offensive to you.

But, it is impossible to please everyone.
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Old 10-13-2018, 02:16 AM
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Well, this is good. It shows that no matter how innocuous the comment, someone, somewhere can be offended. Thus, we can't possible make everyone happy.

We must just try for the happy mean.

And, I want to make it clear that your opinion,Banquet Bear is perfectly valid, even tho it is at the extreme end. If it is offensive to you, then it is offensive to you.

...please don't mischaracterize my position. I never said I was "offended." I'm not sure my opinions are that extreme. I don't share your opinion that the comment was "innocuous": innocuous is a subjective word and in my humble opinion I don't think suggesting a woman "pluck her eyebrows" is an innocuous comment at all. Plenty of people think telling a "woman to smile" is innocuous. Plenty of other people happen to think otherwise.

Quote:
But, it is impossible to please everyone.
I've stated that I didn't report that post nor do I want the rules changed. I've commented here to give context to the original complaint, that's all.
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Old 10-13-2018, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard View Post
...I'll be on the lookout now for any mention of Greg Brady's perm or Doug Heffernan's big belly...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post
...You are talking about characters, not actors...
Um, ahem, so are you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post
...The character Michaela Stone isn't defined by her eyebrows. Her eyebrows aren't a plot element, they aren't a story element...

mmm
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Old 10-13-2018, 09:08 AM
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Well, as the original "offender" I guess I should chime in.

Clearly it didn't strike me as an offensive comment, or I wouldn't have made it. I can sort of see the analogy between saying "I wish she'd pluck her eyebrows" and saying "Smile" -- but I think there's a big difference because the first is just an expression of what I'd prefer, in a place where the person in question is highly unlikely to ever read it, while the second is an order, usually delivered directly to someone's face.

The thing about that actress's eyebrows it that I find them distracting. They're thicker than usual (for a female actress in our time and culture), which is emphasized by the color contrast with her hair. So in scenes where they focus in closely on her face, which is usually at emotionally taut moments, when the actress is supposed to be conveying anger/loss/fear/unhappiness/whatever...instead of looking at her *expression* I find myself focusing on her eyebrows instead.

And I fall into the camp that the physical appearance of an actor IS part of the job. If the character is supposed to be a typical female college freshman, experiencing life outside her home for the first time, it would break illusion if the actress playing her were in her sixties and looked it. I'd expect people to comment on that casting choice.

Or, take the Netflix series Longmire. In the books it's adapted from, Henry Standing Bear is a 6' 4" tall immensely strong man. His size and strength is frequently brought up, especially in the many times he is called on to back up -- or rescue! -- the lead character. In the series he's played by Lou Diamond Phillips, who obviously doesn't match that description. There were plenty of comments about that when the series premiered. Were those offensive? Size-ist, maybe?

Last edited by StarvingButStrong; 10-13-2018 at 09:09 AM.
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Old 10-13-2018, 03:16 PM
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This isn't a human rights activist giving a speech at the UN. It's an actor. Actors are paid to be looked at. Their appearance is part of their skill set, and is perfectly valid to comment upon. Even in the thread someone said "Josh Dallas is yummy," which passed without complaint.



ETA: What Starving but Strong said.

Last edited by Larry Borgia; 10-13-2018 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 10-13-2018, 05:19 PM
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Seems to be to be a very good direction to be taking Moderation of image-bashing on all levels.

For example. I'm a 56 year-old man with wrinkles and graying hair.

Actor Robert Redford is starring in the upcoming feature film, " The Old Man & The Gun ".

In accordance with the guidelines currently being enforced on the SDMB, it is entirely reasonable for me to be able to enjoy threads in Cafe Society- or anywhere else in SDMB- regarding this film and/ or Mr. Redford without having to read remarks about his age, physical appearance, wrinkles, hair and so on.

I have as much right to enjoy threads on this message board as anyone else without having to battle ageist remarks.

I thank the Moderators in advance for enforcing these policies with complete equanimity regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or age.
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Old 10-13-2018, 05:50 PM
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But, it is impossible to please everyone.
This is it in nutshell. If you strive too hard to please everybody you'll end up pleasing nobody.
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Old 10-13-2018, 06:11 PM
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Seems to be to be a very good direction to be taking Moderation of image-bashing on all levels.

For example. I'm a 56 year-old man with wrinkles and graying hair.

Actor Robert Redford is starring in the upcoming feature film, " The Old Man & The Gun ".

In accordance with the guidelines currently being enforced on the SDMB, it is entirely reasonable for me to be able to enjoy threads in Cafe Society- or anywhere else in SDMB- regarding this film and/ or Mr. Redford without having to read remarks about his age, physical appearance, wrinkles, hair and so on.

I have as much right to enjoy threads on this message board as anyone else without having to battle ageist remarks.

I thank the Moderators in advance for enforcing these policies with complete equanimity regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or age.
I am 54. I could not give less of a shit if someone mentioned Redford being old, because he is in fact old. Why is mentioning that upsetting? I mean I doubt it would come up, but if he was cast as a thirty year old I'd expect his age would be brought up.
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Old 10-13-2018, 07:08 PM
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Um, ahem, so are you:
...you've just cherry-picked a sentence out of context. Of course I talked about the character. I was making a point about the actress. The character isn't dependent on any particular physical trait: so there is no need to constrain the selection of the actress because of any particular physical trait either.
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Old 10-13-2018, 07:52 PM
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Well, as the original "offender" I guess I should chime in.

Clearly it didn't strike me as an offensive comment, or I wouldn't have made it. I can sort of see the analogy between saying "I wish she'd pluck her eyebrows" and saying "Smile" -- but I think there's a big difference because the first is just an expression of what I'd prefer, in a place where the person in question is highly unlikely to ever read it, while the second is an order, usually delivered directly to someone's face.
...would you think it would be appropriate to say in a thread about "Crazy Ex Girlfriend" that "Rachel Bloom's character would be improved if she just smiled a bit more?"

Would it be appropriate in real life to tell an actress you just met "you might get more roles if you plucked your eyebrows?"

Do you think that actresses who don't pluck their eyebrows should get less work?

Quote:
The thing about that actress's eyebrows it that I find them distracting. They're thicker than usual (for a female actress in our time and culture), which is emphasized by the color contrast with her hair. So in scenes where they focus in closely on her face, which is usually at emotionally taut moments, when the actress is supposed to be conveying anger/loss/fear/unhappiness/whatever...instead of looking at her *expression* I find myself focusing on her eyebrows instead.
You do realize that this is your problem, and not Melissa Roxburgh's problem right?

Quote:
And I fall into the camp that the physical appearance of an actor IS part of the job. If the character is supposed to be a typical female college freshman, experiencing life outside her home for the first time, it would break illusion if the actress playing her were in her sixties and looked it. I'd expect people to comment on that casting choice.
You don't want her eyebrows plucked because they've cast an actress too young to be a police detective with her experience.

You want her to pluck her eyebrows because you find them distracting.

They aren't distracting because "it isn't realistic for police detectives to have eyebrows like Roxburgh's."

They are distracting because Roxburgh doesn't fit your idealised vision of what an actress on TV is supposed to look like.

Quote:
Or, take the Netflix series Longmire. In the books it's adapted from, Henry Standing Bear is a 6' 4" tall immensely strong man. His size and strength is frequently brought up, especially in the many times he is called on to back up -- or rescue! -- the lead character. In the series he's played by Lou Diamond Phillips, who obviously doesn't match that description. There were plenty of comments about that when the series premiered. Were those offensive? Size-ist, maybe?
Michaela Stone isn't a character from a book. The only basis for comparison you have for the character is with the internalised beauty standards that you have in your head. I work with a lot of actors and models in this industry. I am well aware of the pressures that actors and models are under to "conform" with what some would regard as "traditional beauty standards". Roxburgh has a similar look to Cara Delevingne. She is a perfectly normal human being.
  #30  
Old 10-13-2018, 08:11 PM
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You are mansplaining.
  #31  
Old 10-13-2018, 08:14 PM
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You are mansplaining.
...were you talking to me?
  #32  
Old 10-13-2018, 08:22 PM
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Yes, you are telling a woman--two women in fact, since Misnomer is also a woman and also commented on the eyebrows--how they should feel.

My God, it was a simple comment about some actress on a fantasy show. This is not something that needs litigating.

Last edited by Larry Borgia; 10-13-2018 at 08:23 PM.
  #33  
Old 10-13-2018, 09:09 PM
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Yes, you are telling a woman--two women in fact, since Misnomer is also a woman and also commented on the eyebrows
...a key component in "mansplaining" is that you "comment on or explain something to a woman in a condescending, overconfident, and often inaccurate or oversimplified manner." My arguments to StarvingButStrong are identical to the arguments I made upthread to Ellis Dee, Mean Mr Mustard, and to DrDeth. I didn't say anything inaccurate. Nothing was oversimplified. If you thought my comments were "condescending" or "patronizing", well yeah, people say that to me a lot. But its mostly men who say that to me, so I'm an "equal opportunity offender."

I had no idea that StarvingButStrong was a woman, but now that you feel it appropriate to inform me (and some people online would prefer not to have this information revealed) I would have said exactly the same thing. Because I was addressing the words StarvingButStrong posted, no more than that.

Quote:
--how they should feel.
:: narrator-"I did not do this."

Quote:
My God, it was a simple comment about some actress on a fantasy show.
My God, somebody wrote an OP on a messageboard and I responded with my thoughts.

Quote:
This is not something that needs litigating.
Just a reminder that I haven't called for comments like this to be banned or moderated. I don't think I've said anything in this thread that is unreasonable. If I've said something you disagree with I'd much prefer you argue with what I actually said rather than throwing out cheap ad hominem.
  #34  
Old 10-13-2018, 09:42 PM
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Okay, it is unacceptable to admit to thinking that Nikki Haley is hot in a thread about Nikki Haley--is it acceptable or not to admit to thinking that Jodie Whittaker is beautiful in a thread about Doctor Who season 11? Both are positive comments about physical appearance, both are commenting on something not directly related to the performance of their jobs (Haley governing/ambassadoring, Whittaker acting.)



Let the hair-splitting commence.
  #35  
Old 10-13-2018, 11:33 PM
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Seems to be to be a very good direction to be taking Moderation of image-bashing on all levels.

For example. I'm a 56 year-old man with wrinkles and graying hair.

Actor Robert Redford is starring in the upcoming feature film, " The Old Man & The Gun ".

In accordance with the guidelines currently being enforced on the SDMB, it is entirely reasonable for me to be able to enjoy threads in Cafe Society- or anywhere else in SDMB- regarding this film and/ or Mr. Redford without having to read remarks about his age, physical appearance, wrinkles, hair and so on.

I have as much right to enjoy threads on this message board as anyone else without having to battle ageist remarks.

I thank the Moderators in advance for enforcing these policies with complete equanimity regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race or age.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post
...a key component in "mansplaining" is that you "comment on or explain something to a woman in a condescending, overconfident, and often inaccurate or oversimplified manner." My arguments to StarvingButStrong are identical to the arguments I made upthread to Ellis Dee, Mean Mr Mustard, and to DrDeth. I didn't say anything inaccurate. Nothing was oversimplified. If you thought my comments were "condescending" or "patronizing", well yeah, people say that to me a lot. But its mostly men who say that to me, so I'm an "equal opportunity offender."

I had no idea that StarvingButStrong was a woman, but now that you feel it appropriate to inform me (and some people online would prefer not to have this information revealed) I would have said exactly the same thing. Because I was addressing the words StarvingButStrong posted, no more than that.



:: narrator-"I did not do this."



My God, somebody wrote an OP on a messageboard and I responded with my thoughts.



Just a reminder that I haven't called for comments like this to be banned or moderated. I don't think I've said anything in this thread that is unreasonable. If I've said something you disagree with I'd much prefer you argue with what I actually said rather than throwing out cheap ad hominem.
Quote sniping is shitty.
  #36  
Old 10-13-2018, 11:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Darren Garrison View Post
Okay, it is unacceptable to admit to thinking that Nikki Haley is hot in a thread about Nikki Haley--is it acceptable or not to admit to thinking that Jodie Whittaker is beautiful in a thread about Doctor Who season 11? Both are positive comments about physical appearance, both are commenting on something not directly related to the performance of their jobs (Haley governing/ambassadoring, Whittaker acting.)



Let the hair-splitting commence.

Except looks do have a lot to do with an actresses career, and it's not objectifying to note that a certain actress is beautiful in a thread about a television show that said actress is on. Nikki Haley is an ambassador. What do looks have to do with her job? Zero. Bone's modding on that post was on point. You can call it hair-splitting if you like, I call it common sense.
  #37  
Old 10-14-2018, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by expectopatronum View Post
Except looks do have a lot to do with an actresses career, and it's not objectifying to note that a certain actress is beautiful in a thread about a television show that said actress is on. Nikki Haley is an ambassador. What do looks have to do with her job? Zero. Bone's modding on that post was on point. You can call it hair-splitting if you like, I call it common sense.
This has been said before, and it doesn't feel quite right to me. Is there an assumption that all actors are putting their beauty or sexuality on display, and are therefore fair game? Doctor Who is hardly that kind of role. What if an actor is playing a female ambassador in a movie, does that make it appropriate to talk about how hot she is?

I don't think the relevant distinction is whether the person one happens to find "hot" is an ambassador or an actor. We all like to gossip sometimes about who we find sexy, but we can surely find other social contexts to do that. I think it's more that there's a strong consensus that we don't want SDMB to be a place for that kind of salacious commentary at all, because we want this to be a more inclusive and respectful community.

So it seems to me that the question men should be asking ourselves before commenting on the appearance of women on SDMB is not "is she fair game". In any context it's "what's my motivation for posting this." We can surely discuss an actor's appearance if it's a bona fide discussion of whether she's physically suited to an acting role. Although perhaps we might want to avoid a discussion of who's most suited to play a stripper or a prostitute. Maybe a discussion of genuinely aesthetic aspects of appearance is okay, but there's a pretty fine line there. But I think the point is, if you feel the urge to share with the world who you find sexually attractive, that doesn't make you a bad person or a misogynist per se, just a normal human being - but choose to go and have that conversation somewhere else.
  #38  
Old 10-14-2018, 02:03 AM
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You are mansplaining.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Borgia View Post
Quote sniping is shitty.
...I'm glad you feel so strongly on this topic (that you didn't think we should be talking about) that you've responded to my posts with such a succinct, coherent, and devastating series of rebuttals. I look forward to your future efforts: "sarcasm is unbecoming", "your mamma dresses you funny" and "bow-ties are not cool."
  #39  
Old 10-14-2018, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post
...I'm glad you feel so strongly on this topic (that you didn't think we should be talking about) that you've responded to my posts with such a succinct, coherent, and devastating series of rebuttals. I look forward to your future efforts: "sarcasm is unbecoming", "your mamma dresses you funny" and "bow-ties are not cool."
OK bro.
  #40  
Old 10-14-2018, 03:18 AM
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ATMB is not the place to get snippy with each other. Treat others with respect while in this forum.

Since the OP seems to have been sufficiently addressed, I am going to close this before anyone steps too far over the line and earns themselves a warning. If anyone feels that more needs to be discussed here, just send me a PM and we can discuss re-opening this.

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