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Old 10-19-2018, 09:26 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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President Donald Trump: "Democrats Produce Mobs, Republicans Produce Jobs"

President Trump appears to have settled on his closing argument for the 2018 campaign season: "Democrats produce mobs, Republicans produce jobs"

Personally, I think it's rather catchy, and a sadly-accurate reflection of the current state of affairs in American politics, but I'm curious what my fellow Dopers think. Have any of you (I'm particularly curious what the leftists think, but the couple of other conservatives are welcome to opine as well) been turned off by leftist incivility, vandalism, destruction of property, violence, mob actions, etc? Even if you personally approve, do you worry that it might be turning off moderates / independent voters? Or do you think this sort of thing will be a great electoral boon for Dems?
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:30 PM
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Hmm really makes you think.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:36 PM
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Honestly, I don't really see a lot of mobs (nor do I think that Trump has been particularly great at producing jobs or a sustainable economy, but YMMV). Compared to the 60's or even the 80's we live in relatively tranquil times, IMHO...
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  #4  
Old 10-19-2018, 09:43 PM
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Look at the audience at a Trump campaign rally - mobs of slobs without jobs.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Personally, I think it's rather catchy, and a sadly-accurate
Trump has never given a shit whether anything he says is accurate. He only cares about its effect.
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Old 10-19-2018, 09:53 PM
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https://twitter.com/WalshFreedom/sta...02113805479938
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:02 PM
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"It must be true if it rhymes."

Words of an intellectual giant.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:04 PM
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In the interests of staying on the right side of the Pit border, I'll just say that this is typical of the usual quality of your arguments, Ditka.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:04 PM
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New York police arrest first two suspects in Proud Boys street brawl
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:11 PM
Lance Turbo Lance Turbo is offline
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A literal torch wielding mob
  #11  
Old 10-19-2018, 10:35 PM
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GOP leaders are literally leading violent mobs while Trump destroys jobs with fruitless trade wars. Your whole party is lost is delusions. Time will tell if you bring the country down with you.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:38 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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... Trump destroys jobs with fruitless trade wars. ...
The unemployment rate is currently ... what ... 3.7%? He hasn't destroyed all that many.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:44 PM
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Look at the audience at a Trump campaign rally - mobs of slobs without jobs.
You're guessing at their employment status based on their appearance? That doesn't seem like the sort of thing your side would normally approve of.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:46 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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Honestly, I don't really see a lot of mobs (nor do I think that Trump has been particularly great at producing jobs or a sustainable economy, but YMMV). Compared to the 60's or even the 80's we live in relatively tranquil times, IMHO...
I wasn't alive at the time, but I think I safely concede that mob actions were a bigger problem in the 60's.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 10-19-2018 at 10:46 PM.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
President Trump appears to have settled on his closing argument for the 2018 campaign season: "Democrats produce mobs, Republicans produce jobs"

Personally, I think it's rather catchy, and a sadly-accurate reflection of the current state of affairs in American politics, but I'm curious what my fellow Dopers think. Have any of you (I'm particularly curious what the leftists think, but the couple of other conservatives are welcome to opine as well) been turned off by leftist incivility, vandalism, destruction of property, violence, mob actions, etc? Even if you personally approve, do you worry that it might be turning off moderates / independent voters? Or do you think this sort of thing will be a great electoral boon for Dems?
Good Lord, talk about making a whole buttload of assumptions as to the truth of things in order to poison the question.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:46 PM
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The unemployment rate is currently ... what ... 3.7%? He hasn't destroyed all that many.
Give it time.
Ford Prepares for Mass Layoffs After Losing $1 Billion to Trump's Trade Tariffs, Report Says
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Ford is having a bad year in 2018. Its stock is down 29%, and the tariffs imposed by President Trump have reportedly cost the company $1 billion, as the company is in the midst of a reorganization. Now, the company is announcing layoffs.

Jim Hackett, Ford’s CEO, is working to engineer a $25.5 billion restructuring of the automaker, hoping to cut costs and remain competitive, the Wall Street Journal reports. But auto sales are down, and one reason is the trade tariffs that Trump has imposed on metals and other goods. According to Bloomberg, Hackett has said they have already cost the company $1 billion in profit and could do “more damage” if the disputes aren’t resolved quickly.
It's not just jobs that are lost.
Facing threat of tariffs, China buyers cancel orders for U.S. soybeans(May 8)
Quote:
With the threat of tariffs and counter-tariffs between Washington and Beijing looming, Chinese buyers are canceling orders for U.S. soybeans, a trend that could deal a blow to American farmers if it continues.

At the same time, farmers in China are being encouraged to plant more soy, apparently to help make up for any shortfall from the United States.

Beijing has included soybeans on a list of $50 billion of U.S. exports on which it has said it would impose 25 percent tariffs if the United States follows through on its threats to impose the same level of tariffs on the same value of Chinese goods. The U.S. tariffs could kick in later this month; China would likely retaliate soon after.
[
  #17  
Old 10-19-2018, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
The unemployment rate is currently ... what ... 3.7%? He hasn't destroyed all that many.

At one point Trump claimed that the commonly reported unemployment rate was extremely misleading, and the real numbers should be much higher. I suppose he's okay with it now, despite the fact that the labor force participation rate remains very low.
  #18  
Old 10-19-2018, 10:48 PM
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Democrats display wit, republicans eat shit. Gee, this is fun. The "president" is dimwitted chimp who inherited a healthy economy. He's created nothing.
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Old 10-19-2018, 10:49 PM
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Well we might not have healthcare for people with pre-existing conditions, clean water, breathable air, rights for women and minorities, and a future climate for our children, but we have an awesome slogan.

Last edited by Buck Godot; 10-19-2018 at 10:50 PM.
  #20  
Old 10-19-2018, 10:49 PM
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You're guessing at their employment status based on their appearance? That doesn't seem like the sort of thing your side would normally approve of.
But it's something your side approves of.
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:13 PM
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It's a pretty moronic slogan and will appeal only to those already predisposed to vote Republican.
  #22  
Old 10-19-2018, 11:17 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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But it's something your side approves of.
I disagree, but in this thread the only example of it came from a leftist. Do you approve of that or not?
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:22 PM
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Credit where credit is due. They've gone from three word slogans to a six word slogan. Progress should be acknowledged. ("Make America Great Again" doesn't count because they usually abbreviate it.)
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:27 PM
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I disagree, but in this thread the only example of it came from a leftist. Do you approve of that or not?
Narrow the focus until the result you want remains?


Why Republicans’ Accusations Of ‘Paid Protesters’ Are Worse Than They Seem
Quote:
After a boisterous and humiliating town hall meeting last week, Utah Representative Jason Chaffetz dismissed the jeering crowd as “paid protesters,” a claim that Trump, Kellyanne Conway, and Sean Spicer have all used before, most recently in regards to the opposition of the Muslim ban. Like most of Trump’s other inflammatory accusations — of 3 million fraudulent votes in the election, of dangerous and un-vetted refugees flooding our borders, of the media ignoring terrorist attacks — this one is equally baseless, malicious, and manipulative. However, it also speaks to a broader sense of entitlement over what qualifies as “authentic.”

When Trump first made the “paid protesters” argument, reporters quickly debunked the evidence presented: namely, that a website called DemandProtest.com had posted job ads in more than 20 cities offering hirees $2,500 a month to demonstrate in D.C. Though such a website did exist, along with a contact number based in San Francisco, Snopes, an online fact-checking site, found no companies registered under “Demand Protest, LLC.” After originally reporting that Donald Trump “may have a point about paid protesters,” The Washington Times later retracted the story: “The polished Demand Protest website, the Backpage.com ads recruiting paid protesters for the Trump inauguration: Apparently it was all a hoax.
  #25  
Old 10-19-2018, 11:28 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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From the article:

Quote:
... Surveillance video showed one of the anti-fascist protesters throwing a bottle at the Proud Boys, who then retaliated with punches. ...
  #26  
Old 10-19-2018, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by running coach View Post
If the roles were reversed, someone would have been along to dismiss your post #20 as 'whataboutism'. Rather than do that, I tried to engage you in further conversation. If you're just going to evade every question posed to you, it's not going to be a useful conversation.
  #27  
Old 10-19-2018, 11:45 PM
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If the roles were reversed, someone would have been along to dismiss your post #20 as 'whataboutism'. Rather than do that, I tried to engage you in further conversation. If you're just going to evade every question posed to you, it's not going to be a useful conversation.
Like fuck I am. You're the one who wants to confine discussion to a single example in this thread as a means to smear the left.
Meanwhile, the so-called President and GOP leadership does the same while you cheer.
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:49 PM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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Like fuck I am. ...
If the above is true, then answer this question:

Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
I disagree, but in this thread the only example of it came from a leftist. Do you approve of that or not?
It shouldn't be difficult. A simple 'yes' or 'no' would suffice.
  #29  
Old 10-19-2018, 11:53 PM
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From the article:
A bottle? Shit, our grandfathers shot nazis. Well, maybe not yours.
  #30  
Old 10-19-2018, 11:58 PM
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If the above is true, then answer this question:



It shouldn't be difficult. A simple 'yes' or 'no' would suffice.
False equivalence. Unless AnalogSignal is actually a national level ranking Democrat, then his(?) opinion does not represent the views of the Left (or Democratic Party), only his own.
Unlike the opinions of the President, Speaker of the House, Senate Majority Leader and various prominent Congressthings.
  #31  
Old 10-20-2018, 12:02 AM
HurricaneDitka HurricaneDitka is online now
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False equivalence. Unless AnalogSignal is actually a national level ranking Democrat, then his(?) opinion does not represent the views of the Left (or Democratic Party), only his own.
Unlike the opinions of the President, Speaker of the House, Senate Majority Leader and various prominent Congressthings.
I wasn't making any equivalence at all, false or true. I am neither comparing him to Republicans, nor contending that his opinion represents the views of the entire Left. I simply asked if you approved of him making unfavorable assumptions about people based on their appearance or not. Do you?

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 10-20-2018 at 12:03 AM.
  #32  
Old 10-20-2018, 12:03 AM
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Leftist incivility? I guess threatening to lock your political opponents up in prison or suggesting to your followers that they should shoot them isn't consider ill-mannered among the OP's social circle. Because there's a prominent Republican who's done both of those things.
  #33  
Old 10-20-2018, 12:11 AM
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It's only a mob if it's liberals protesting a Supreme Court nomination.

When it's Republicans, it's called "very fine people".
  #34  
Old 10-20-2018, 12:24 AM
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From the article:
Not remotely relevant.
  #35  
Old 10-20-2018, 04:53 AM
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Not remotely relevant.
One side's throwing bottles, the other is setting up on rooftops with firearms.


BOTH SIDES BOTH SIDES BOTH SIDES BOTH SIDES. Death toll for violent leftists during the Trump administration - STILL zero. HD is just terrified of people that couldn't give a shit about him.
  #36  
Old 10-20-2018, 05:22 AM
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President Trump appears to have settled on his closing argument for the 2018 campaign season: "Democrats produce mobs, Republicans produce jobs"
Wait... those guys in Charlottesville marching with torches, recently convicted of assaulting minorities, and running a car thru the crowd and killing someone were Democrats? I thought the president said they were "very fine people?" The people sending death threats to Blasey Ford? The ones stalking Sandy Hook parents? And shooting at abortion clinics? Interesting.
  #37  
Old 10-20-2018, 05:52 AM
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President Trump appears to have settled on his closing argument for the 2018 campaign season: "Democrats produce mobs, Republicans produce jobs"
Except of course, the current boom is due to the stewardship of Obama and that Trump hasn't done anything that has affected the current economy. His trade tariffs have yet to affect the economy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thudlow Boink View Post
Trump has never given a shit whether anything he says is accurate. He only cares about its effect.
Spot on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blank Slate View Post
Democrats display wit, republicans eat shit.
One side is being wittily rude; the other is just being crude. Guess which plays better?
  #38  
Old 10-20-2018, 06:25 AM
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A bottle? Shit, our grandfathers shot nazis. Well, maybe not yours.
Back off. Way off.
Let's not get personal and let's avoid making direct insults.

[ /Moderating ]
  #39  
Old 10-20-2018, 06:52 AM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
President Trump appears to have settled on his closing argument for the 2018 campaign season: "Democrats produce mobs, Republicans produce jobs"

Personally, I think it's rather catchy, and a sadly-accurate reflection of the current state of affairs in American politics, but I'm curious what my fellow Dopers think. Have any of you (I'm particularly curious what the leftists think, but the couple of other conservatives are welcome to opine as well) been turned off by leftist incivility, vandalism, destruction of property, violence, mob actions, etc? Even if you personally approve, do you worry that it might be turning off moderates / independent voters? Or do you think this sort of thing will be a great electoral boon for Dems?
Do you think the slogan is factually accurate?
  #40  
Old 10-20-2018, 06:55 AM
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Compared to two years ago, my economic situation is significantly improved.
  #41  
Old 10-20-2018, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Personally, I think it's rather catchy, and a sadly-accurate reflection of the current state of affairs in American politics, but I'm curious what my fellow Dopers think.
I think you shouldn't ask questions if you don't want to hear the answer.
  #42  
Old 10-20-2018, 07:31 AM
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What specific policies have Republicans enacted that created jobs?

My guess is that we're referring to the huge tax cuts. These may have goosed the economy, at the cost of huge deficits during a time of surplus. Killing the deficit hawks in the Republican party might create new jobs on a temporary basis, okay, I'll grant you that one. Any other policies that have actually created jobs?

On the flip side, which specific mobs have been created by which specific Democrats?

You say you think it's accurate. Some examples would be peachy.

Last edited by Left Hand of Dorkness; 10-20-2018 at 07:32 AM.
  #43  
Old 10-20-2018, 08:30 AM
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According to this (https://www.thebalance.com/job-creat...ercent-3863218), the most jobs were created under the Clinton administration followed by the Obama administration. LBJ presided over the most jobs on a percentage basis for a two-term president (FDR created more from the depths of the Depression, but he had four terms). Number 3 was Reagan.

I don't think you can really credit the president for job creation directly -- there's the world economy, external shocks, fiscal and monetary policy. I don't really know how to correct for all those factors, but I'm not sure I need to in order to argue against a silly slogan.

So, I'd say that Trump's "claim" about jobs is factually incorrect.

I don't know what mobs he's talking about either -- the antifa idiots aren't Democrats, they are usually anarchists. Trump's campaign events chanting "lock her up, lock her up" seem mob-like to me (hey, whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? Trump is all about that these days, both for Saudis and SCOTUS justices).

So, I'd say that Trump's "claim" about mobs is unproven at best. I'd certainly like to see evidence that there are more Democratic mobs than Republican mobs these days. I'm not seeing it. Maybe in the '60s? Although, there were some pretty bad racist mobs in the '60s as well down south (to be fair, they were probably Democrats or Dixiecrats -- parties change).
  #44  
Old 10-20-2018, 09:08 AM
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Compared to two years ago, my economic situation is significantly improved.
My economic situation is the same.

But my cognitive development has advanced to the stage of object permanence, so I actually have the mental capability to understand that this involves something beyond that.
  #45  
Old 10-20-2018, 09:12 AM
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Re-posted from the "Republicans can go straight to fucking hell" thread:
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Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
I was totaling up the number of people killed by white supremacists, neo-Nazis, and the like in the incidents documented by the SPLC for 2017 and 2018. The total came to 36 killed and at least 43 injured.

ETA: As best as I can tell from a quick scan, there have been zero deaths during that period in the incidents listed by Breitbart.
  #46  
Old 10-20-2018, 09:26 AM
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In before "SPLC is just a tool of the Left."
  #47  
Old 10-20-2018, 09:27 AM
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I should note that what Gavin McInnes, the Proud Boys leader, was commemorating at the Republican HQ, was the assassination of a leftist Japanese legislator back in 1960. Civility!
  #48  
Old 10-20-2018, 09:29 AM
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Lately I've been discouraged by the realization that the human mind will believe anything as long as it is alliterative.
  #49  
Old 10-20-2018, 10:06 AM
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Compared to two years ago, my economic situation is significantly improved.
My retirement investments have lost 21k so far this month.

But what matters more is that the USA is now a laughing stock of the entire world. Civil liberties are going backwards. The environment and the future is threatened under this fool.
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  #50  
Old 10-20-2018, 10:12 AM
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Trump hasn't had time to destroy the economy. He inherited an economy that was already strong. I'll concede that markets probably benefited from lower taxes and less regulation, but that's a temporary stimulus, which we're seeing now. There are serious underlying problems with the economy that are unavoidable, and he will be forced to confront them starting in 2019.
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