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Old 10-21-2018, 12:58 PM
enipla enipla is online now
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Trump claims people in California are rioting to get out of sancuary cities.

Not really sure where to drop this, but IMHO is OK I guess.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/twitter-a...055804686.html

Now, this wasn't a 4am tweet. He claimed that California is rioting in a speech.

I think that perhaps he had a dream that this is what is happening. He is inventing domestic trouble that does not exist and inciting violence.

Ever know a liar? A real liar. They become so entrenched in their falsehoods, they believe them. It's all they have.

He's delusional. His base will believe him. Article 25 now.
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Old 10-21-2018, 01:03 PM
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You ridicule the president. Do you not remember the Bowling Green Massacre?
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Old 10-21-2018, 01:08 PM
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Apparently you haven't seen any of the political ads that the GOP is running on YouTube, eh.

I have seen multiple ads that claim that Democrats are funding MS-13. I've seen ads that say that Democrats want immigrants to come here and murder your family so that they can vote in our elections (for Democrats, of course). I've seen ads that say that Democrats want to kill all the police, senior citizens, and children. I've seen ads that say that Democrats want completely open borders.

I've never seen such a volume of nakedly vicious and objectively false political ads in my 50+ years on this planet, not here in America. And from my experience, it's all coming from one side: the GOP.
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Old 10-21-2018, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
Apparently you haven't seen any of the political ads that the GOP is running on YouTube, eh.

I have seen multiple ads that claim that Democrats are funding MS-13. I've seen ads that say that Democrats want immigrants to come here and murder your family so that they can vote in our elections (for Democrats, of course). I've seen ads that say that Democrats want to kill all the police, senior citizens, and children. I've seen ads that say that Democrats want completely open borders.

I've never seen such a volume of nakedly vicious and objectively false political ads in my 50+ years on this planet, not here in America. And from my experience, it's all coming from one side: the GOP.
Most of them are likely planted videos by foreign entities, and not from the GOP.
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Old 10-21-2018, 01:29 PM
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Most of them are likely planted videos by foreign entities, and not from the GOP.
NO. Most of them are from the GOP. Don't try and mitigate these ads by claiming they aren't funded by, wanted by or appreciated by the GOP: they are. The GOP wanted Citizens United so they could influence politics without anyone knowing they did so or how much they did so, and now they're using the situation they created to their advantage.

IMO, trying to deflect blame away from those who instigated, use and benefit from the current perverse laws regarding campaign finance isn't going to help end this situation; pointing it out will.

And pointing out that what the GOP says about their opponents and about our country is an ever-increasingly ridiculous set of lies is central to that effort.

Last edited by Snowboarder Bo; 10-21-2018 at 01:30 PM.
  #6  
Old 10-21-2018, 01:51 PM
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The thing is, Trump's lies (and all the other lies told by Republicans) work. You can see people on this board posting these things as if they were actual facts. From a politician's point of view, why bother telling the truth when a lie serves your purpose better and people are willing to believe anything? Republican politicians aren't going to stop lying until Republican voters start wanting to hear the truth.
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Old 10-21-2018, 01:54 PM
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The thing is, Trump's lies (and all the other lies told by Republicans) work. You can see people on this board posting these things as if they were actual facts. From a politician's point of view, why bother telling the truth when a lie serves your purpose better and people are willing to believe anything? Republican politicians aren't going to stop lying until Republican voters start wanting to hear the truth.
Which won't happen because Republican voters think they are hearing the truth.

Last edited by running coach; 10-21-2018 at 01:54 PM.
  #8  
Old 10-21-2018, 01:57 PM
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I have seen multiple ads that claim that Democrats are funding MS-13. I've seen ads that say that Democrats want immigrants to come here and murder your family so that they can vote in our elections (for Democrats, of course). I've seen ads that say that Democrats want to kill all the police, senior citizens, and children. I've seen ads that say that Democrats want completely open borders.
.
This is rather difficult to believe. You have a link for the cop/geezer/baby murder ad?
  #9  
Old 10-21-2018, 02:33 PM
enipla enipla is online now
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Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
Apparently you haven't seen any of the political ads that the GOP is running on YouTube, eh.

I have seen multiple ads that claim that Democrats are funding MS-13. I've seen ads that say that Democrats want immigrants to come here and murder your family so that they can vote in our elections (for Democrats, of course). I've seen ads that say that Democrats want to kill all the police, senior citizens, and children. I've seen ads that say that Democrats want completely open borders.

I've never seen such a volume of nakedly vicious and objectively false political ads in my 50+ years on this planet, not here in America. And from my experience, it's all coming from one side: the GOP.
I don't youtube and pay little attention to adds. I don't think I've seen a single add one way or the other. Or perhaps I just ignore them. This, though, came out of the assholes face. I linked to this one as it was on the front page of Yahoo. It's not that much of a different lie than all the others, but you would THINK that his base could at least understand that it's a complete and utter lie.
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Old 10-21-2018, 02:35 PM
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It's been said in other threads and posts. News organizations of all stripes should just start off with -

"President Trump lied again today, only the third one since this morning"
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  #11  
Old 10-21-2018, 02:53 PM
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You ridicule the president. Do you not remember the Bowling Green Massacre?
Wasn’t that a Neko Case song?

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  #12  
Old 10-21-2018, 03:00 PM
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This is rather difficult to believe. You have a link for the cop/geezer/baby murder ad?
Just watch YouTube. I see a gazillion of these things every day when I watch music videos; there's one before nearly every video. Google is making a fortune off these ads; there's no way they'll shut down that money spigot. No matter who gets elected or what happens to the country later, they're gonna take the money now.
  #13  
Old 10-21-2018, 03:07 PM
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Article 25 won't protect America from his voters who will happily vote for the next white nationalist, authoritarian, dangerously incompetent, treasonous con man who runs on the GOP ticket.
  #14  
Old 10-21-2018, 03:16 PM
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Just watch YouTube. I see a gazillion of these things every day when I watch music videos; there's one before nearly every video. Google is making a fortune off these ads; there's no way they'll shut down that money spigot. No matter who gets elected or what happens to the country later, they're gonna take the money now.
I do watch youtube but I haven't seen it.
  #15  
Old 10-21-2018, 03:21 PM
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Article 25 won't protect America from his voters who will happily vote for the next white nationalist, authoritarian, dangerously incompetent, treasonous con man who runs on the GOP ticket.
You're right. And I thing and IMHO and all, it was put in place to protect us from this. Unfortunately congress and his administration (on whatever day you choose to pick) is completely behind this moron. They didn't suspect that the country as a whole would not understand that hitting your thumb with a hammer, is likely to hurt.
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Old 10-21-2018, 03:25 PM
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I do watch youtube but I haven't seen it.
Adblocker or an account?
  #17  
Old 10-21-2018, 03:42 PM
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Adblocker or an account?
Are you saying that you have seen this ad too?
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Old 10-21-2018, 03:50 PM
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I have seen multiple ads that claim that Democrats are funding MS-13. I've seen ads that say that Democrats want immigrants to come here and murder your family so that they can vote in our elections (for Democrats, of course). I've seen ads that say that Democrats want to kill all the police, senior citizens, and children. I've seen ads that say that Democrats want completely open borders.
Open borders, I have seen. Funding illegals, yes: "Gov Brown is taking all the money from the gas tax and spending it on programs for Illegals, etc". That the Dems want illegals to vote.

I have not yet seen "Democrats want to kill all the police, senior citizens, and children."
  #19  
Old 10-21-2018, 03:56 PM
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I do watch youtube but I haven't seen it.
Keep watching, I guess. It helps, I suppose, that I watch lots of 3-6 minute videos rather than a handful of 30 minute long things.

I'd link to them individually but AFAICT they aren't actually posted to YouTube, they just run as ads.
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Old 10-21-2018, 04:12 PM
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Well, I'm a little surprised that youtube is running ads that say the Democrats are pro-infanticide and pro-geronticide, but if you say so.

Last edited by CarnalK; 10-21-2018 at 04:15 PM.
  #21  
Old 10-21-2018, 04:34 PM
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Well, I'm a little surprised that youtube is running ads that say the Democrats are pro-infanticide and pro-geronticide, but if you say so.
I think he is exaggerating that one.

But yeah, I have seen ads much like the others he describes.

"I've seen ads that say that Democrats want immigrants to come here and murder your family so that they can vote in our elections (for Democrats, of course). " = Ads which say Gov Brown is wasting taxpayer money or "the gas tax" on aid programs for "illegals".

So, maybe a little exaggeration to make his point, but yeah, they are bad.

One I laugh at is for a local Congresscritter. The GOP has tapped into some hatred here in CA for the recent boost on gas taxes. Sure, who likes higher taxes? So, they say "Person running for Congress vs old white guy republican is in favor of raising CA gas taxes! Of course a Congresscritter has nothing whatsoever to do with State gas taxes.
  #22  
Old 10-21-2018, 05:04 PM
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Wasn’t that a Neko Case song?

Stranger
How about Buffalo Springfield - "Stop Children What's That Sound..."

Neko Case? Just wikied her. I'll look it up.
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Old 10-21-2018, 05:08 PM
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So called 'Open Borders' are the very least of our problems. There is a moronic criminal in the White House.
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  #24  
Old 10-21-2018, 06:22 PM
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Just watch YouTube. I see a gazillion of these things every day when I watch music videos; there's one before nearly every video. Google is making a fortune off these ads; there's no way they'll shut down that money spigot. No matter who gets elected or what happens to the country later, they're gonna take the money now.
Oh. come on; you know better than that. I spend a considerable amount of time daily watching Youtube videos and I haven't seen seen anything close to what you are claiming. Please back up your claim or retract it.
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Old 10-21-2018, 06:24 PM
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Oh. come on; you know better than that. I spend a considerable amount of time daily watching Youtube videos and I haven't seen seen anything close to what you are claiming. Please back up your claim or retract it.
I said I saw several very similar to most of his claims. In areas where there is a close race for congress, you will get different ads. I get a bunch of them.

Last edited by DrDeth; 10-21-2018 at 06:25 PM.
  #26  
Old 10-21-2018, 06:34 PM
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NO. Most of them are from the GOP. Don't try and mitigate these ads by claiming they aren't funded by, wanted by or appreciated by the GOP: they are. The GOP wanted Citizens United so they could influence politics without anyone knowing they did so or how much they did so, and now they're using the situation they created to their advantage.

IMO, trying to deflect blame away from those who instigated, use and benefit from the current perverse laws regarding campaign finance isn't going to help end this situation; pointing it out will.

And pointing out that what the GOP says about their opponents and about our country is an ever-increasingly ridiculous set of lies is central to that effort.
And how do you know they're from the GOP? Do they have statements at the bottom saying something like "This ad approved by _____"? I have no love for the smarmy side of politics, nor for the GOP, but attributing these sorts of things to them without some sort of proof just doesn't fly.
  #27  
Old 10-21-2018, 06:50 PM
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YouTube. Well fine.

Don't need YouTube to understand Trump and his administrations goals. It's seen in every broadcast of him, every word he blasts out on Twitter. The petulant child that he is should not be put in charge of a playground A child like Trump in my house would be reprimanded and counseled. And I would have a talk with the parents.

I would feel sorry for the parents of such an out of control child. Now, I feel sorry for the US and the world. This is bullshit. He's a moron. This is clear.

Yet there are people here, in this country and on this site that seem to think he's doing a good job. I would pity these people, but can't anymore. They have been shown fact after fact but still believe. They may as well be flat earthers for the 'logic' they present.
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Old 10-21-2018, 07:07 PM
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And how do you know they're from the GOP? Do they have statements at the bottom saying something like "This ad approved by _____"? I have no love for the smarmy side of politics, nor for the GOP, but attributing these sorts of things to them without some sort of proof just doesn't fly.
Well, a attack ad on the local Dem Congress candidate did show it was paid for and approved by the GOp incumbent.

Of course they could be from the kremlin, but since their purpose is to support GOp candidates, the end result is the same.
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Old 10-21-2018, 07:18 PM
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Wasn’t that a Neko Case song?

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Green River murders

http://www.halfcloth.com/jukebox-bre...eep-red-bells/
  #30  
Old 10-21-2018, 07:23 PM
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And how do you know they're from the GOP? Do they have statements at the bottom saying something like "This ad approved by _____"? I have no love for the smarmy side of politics, nor for the GOP, but attributing these sorts of things to them without some sort of proof just doesn't fly.
I'm sorry but you made the initial claim that "Most of them are likely planted videos by foreign entities, and not from the GOP." and so you'll have to cite that or withdraw your claim; thanks.
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Old 10-21-2018, 07:38 PM
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Most of them are likely planted videos by foreign entities, and not from the GOP.
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The thing is, Trump's lies (and all the other lies told by Republicans) work. You can see people on this board posting these things as if they were actual facts.
I suspect that some of these are foreign entities, which explains why they purport to buy the extremist "party" line.
  #32  
Old 10-21-2018, 07:48 PM
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I'm sorry but you made the initial claim that "Most of them are likely planted videos by foreign entities, and not from the GOP." and so you'll have to cite that or withdraw your claim; thanks.
You mean the ads you've vaguely described in obviously hyperbolic terms? You want him to find your imaginary ads and refute they're GOP ads?
  #33  
Old 10-21-2018, 08:05 PM
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You mean the ads you've vaguely described in obviously hyperbolic terms? You want him to find your imaginary ads and refute they're GOP ads?
Not imaginary, like I have said now for the 3rd time, I have seen ads very similar to the majority of his claims.
  #34  
Old 10-21-2018, 08:12 PM
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Not imaginary, like I have said now for the 3rd time, I have seen ads very similar to the majority of his claims.


Not imaginary, like I have said now for the 3rd time, I have seen ads very similar to the majority of his claims.

And, you won't see the same ads as we do, as you are not in the same congressional district.

My district is hotly contended, the Dems have a 50-50 shot of outing a long term GOP congresscritter, so yes, there are plenty of GOP attack ads.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/esse...htmlstory.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/card/gop-pri...ax-ads-n902591

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/16/polit...ity/index.html
  #35  
Old 10-21-2018, 08:19 PM
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Not imaginary, like I have said now for the 3rd time, I have seen ads very similar to the majority of his claims.

And, you won't see the same ads as we do, as you are not in the same congressional district.

My district is hotly contended, the Dems have a 50-50 shot of outing a long term GOP congresscritter, so yes, there are plenty of GOP attack ads.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/esse...htmlstory.html

https://www.nbcnews.com/card/gop-pri...ax-ads-n902591

https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/16/polit...ity/index.html
Can you quote the parts of those cites that back up the claims made in post #3?
  #36  
Old 10-21-2018, 08:27 PM
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So I guess Trump may not realize that border crossing arrests in 2017 were at a 46-year low, eh?
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Old 10-21-2018, 09:16 PM
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I catalog youtube videos all week long. I have to keep the ads on for my scripts to run on Mturk so I have seen ads over and over and over. They are NUTTY. I saw that one where the guy said he'd stomp another politician in to the ground before it got pulled and he had to half-ass apologize over it. I've seen plenty about how Democrats advocate for open borders. I haven't seen any "death panel" type ads lately but I've sure seen the gun grabber lies and of course the baby killer ads. I'll keep an eye out tomorrow and see who is paying for them but usually I have the chance to click out after a few seconds so I don't usually make it through to the end.
  #38  
Old 10-21-2018, 09:17 PM
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So called 'Open Borders' are the very least of our problems. There is a moronic criminal in the White House.
You realize one of the reasons for the "moronic criminal in the White House" was his opponent's alliance with people advocating for open borders. His opposition to that with his unbuilt wall earned him a few swing votes.
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Old 10-21-2018, 10:13 PM
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You realize one of the reasons for the "moronic criminal in the White House" was his opponent's alliance with people advocating for open borders. His opposition to that with his unbuilt wall earned him a few swing votes.
Nobody advocates for open borders, with the possible exception of a very fringe group or two. This is the case no matter how often Trump and the Republicans say otherwise.
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Old 10-21-2018, 10:17 PM
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Trump claims people in California are rioting to get out of sancuary cities.

Trump is full of shit. Just like always.

Last edited by bobot; 10-21-2018 at 10:18 PM.
  #41  
Old 10-21-2018, 10:32 PM
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Nobody advocates for open borders, with the possible exception of a very fringe group or two. This is the case no matter how often Trump and the Republicans say otherwise.
Which is, of course, frequently. Trump and Co consistently, persistently, and insistently lie about Democrats (all Democrats) being in favor of open borders.

Any “swing voter” who voted for Trump based on “open borders” was not paying any attention to the facts. A great pity, but there you have it...

Politics to has addressed this, what, seven-eight times? Always false or pants on fire. This is not down to Hillary Clinton, but to lies told about her.
  #42  
Old 10-21-2018, 10:35 PM
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You realize one of the reasons for the "moronic criminal in the White House" was his opponent's alliance with people advocating for open borders. His opposition to that with his unbuilt wall earned him a few swing votes.
No, I don't realize that. Who of the Democrats advocated for open borders?
  #43  
Old 10-21-2018, 10:43 PM
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Can you quote the parts of those cites that back up the claims made in post #3?
No, but those cites do confirm massive GOP Pac fund money buying attack ads, and like I said- I confirm seeing ads much like post 3. Yes, he exaggerates, but not a lot. I have definitely seen a ad that attacked the local Dem candidate based on the "fact' that "Governor Brown is taking the money from the gas tax and spending it on Illegals,etc".

We can't link you to the Youtube ad as you dont live in our districts.

And now there's three people who claim to have seen ads along those lines, and three cites that show massive GOP spending on attack ads.

Some skepticism is OK, but now you're calling three posters liars.

Last edited by DrDeth; 10-21-2018 at 10:46 PM.
  #44  
Old 10-21-2018, 10:48 PM
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We can't link you to the Youtube ad as you dont live in our districts.
What if you search for "[Candidate] campaign ad [subject]"? Surely these videos must exist elsewhere than targeted ad servers? (I'm not doubting the veracity of the claims; just suggesting a possible way to find examples.)
  #45  
Old 10-22-2018, 01:40 AM
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Just guessing, but there are these:

https://youtu.be/LR_WLLEbJpQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou3m...ature=youtu.be
https://youtu.be/K-4BMUHpbsA
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Old 10-22-2018, 02:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
I've never seen such a volume of nakedly vicious and objectively false political ads in my 50+ years on this planet, not here in America. And from my experience, it's all coming from one side: the GOP.
I've not seen it myself, but apparently there has been an ad in my state and my northern neighbor where a PAC argues that voting for Democrats will lead to black people being lynched. A black guy pretends he's talking to other black people, but it's run by a white woman.

That said, given how Trump has taken national discourse, none of this lying surprises me. People no longer think blatant lying will backfire.
  #47  
Old 10-22-2018, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Snowboarder Bo View Post
Just watch YouTube. I see a gazillion of these things every day when I watch music videos; there's one before nearly every video. Google is making a fortune off these ads; there's no way they'll shut down that money spigot. No matter who gets elected or what happens to the country later, they're gonna take the money now.
I've read elsewhere that places don't really have a choice in taking PAC money, due to seeming biased if they refuse.

What we need are truth in advertising laws to go after this stuff. But people act like findings of fact aren't possible anymore--despite that being what our entire judicial system is founded upon.
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Old 10-22-2018, 03:12 AM
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I've seen a couple videos analyzing this phenomenon, where they point out that it it's more about "owning" information than lying in the traditional sense.

Lying normally involves making some factual claim, and you try to avoid both contradicting yourself, or contradicting something the target already knows to be true, and try to make the lie plausible.

What Trump and the current GOP have done, is just make it a tribal thing: "We will tell you what reality looks like today; if you're on our side, you'll believe it. Don't worry about your lying eyes, or what we asked you to believe in yesterday".

It has the side effect that the news cycle becomes almost entirely about trying to clean up Trump's litter tray.
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Old 10-22-2018, 03:29 AM
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People who support Trump are now in on the lies. There's no viable weasel route anymore - it's gone on much too long for that. All Trump supporters and Trump voters are intentionally and consciously lying, every last individual.
  #50  
Old 10-22-2018, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
No, but those cites do confirm massive GOP Pac fund money buying attack ads,
I'm shocked, SHOCKED!! to learn that. But that certainly refutes the zero people in this thread who are claiming that PAC money isn't fueling any attack ads.

Quote:
and like I said- I confirm seeing ads much like post 3. Yes, he exaggerates, but not a lot. I have definitely seen a ad that attacked the local Dem candidate based on the "fact' that "Governor Brown is taking the money from the gas tax and spending it on Illegals,etc"..
That's not even close to what was claimed in post #3, so it would seem the exaggeration is, in fact, a lot. Unless you think that "giving money to illegals" is the same as " Democrats want to kill all the police, senior citizens, and children". Do you?

Last edited by John Mace; 10-22-2018 at 09:53 AM.
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