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  #1  
Old 11-07-2018, 03:59 PM
RTFirefly RTFirefly is online now
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Well, that didn't take long - Sessions fired

Maybe technically not fired, but definitely gone, and not by his choice.

And normally the deputy AG would step up and be the acting AG until a new nominee was decided on, but since Rosenstein is the deputy, it goes without saying that he's not going to be the acting AG.

Can you say "banana Republic"?

Can you say "banana Republicans" who might put up a brief show of objection, but quickly shut up and fall in line behind Dear Leader?
  #2  
Old 11-07-2018, 04:05 PM
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And now, for our production of "Sessionscrantz and Rosenstein Are Dead"...
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Old 11-07-2018, 04:10 PM
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And it looks like the acting AG, Matthew Whitaker, has got a trail of statements going back to August 2017 saying that Mueller's probe had gone too far, should be shut down, his work product not to see the light of day, etc.

ETA: And DOJ is saying the Mueller probe falls under Whitaker's purview. No recusal for him!

Last edited by RTFirefly; 11-07-2018 at 04:12 PM.
  #4  
Old 11-07-2018, 05:03 PM
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My wife told me last night after Kobach lost, "Now Trump will fire Sessions and nominate Kobach for AG." Well, she was half right! (So far...)

Reminds me of when Ashcroft lost to the dead guy in MO and we thought we'd seen the last of him, only to be tapped as AG by Dubya...
  #5  
Old 11-07-2018, 05:25 PM
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I wonder what Jeff Sessions knows and might be encouraged to tell us about...
  #6  
Old 11-07-2018, 05:33 PM
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My wife told me last night after Kobach lost, "Now Trump will fire Sessions and nominate Kobach for AG." Well, she was half right! (So far...)

Reminds me of when Ashcroft lost to the dead guy in MO and we thought we'd seen the last of him, only to be tapped as AG by Dubya...
You are like to be completely right. Kobach is already being strongly rumored to be the next AG nominee.
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Old 11-07-2018, 05:36 PM
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If Whitaker does shut down the Mueller investigation, I recommend immediate rioting, with possible lynching of Republicans from streetlamps.
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Old 11-07-2018, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Shoeless View Post
My wife told me last night after Kobach lost, "Now Trump will fire Sessions and nominate Kobach for AG." Well, she was half right! (So far...)

Reminds me of when Ashcroft lost to the dead guy in MO and we thought we'd seen the last of him, only to be tapped as AG by Dubya...
Yeah, I wouldn't bet against her being right for the other half.

And in the "who do you most want to see lose?" thread, Kobach was my top pick, edging out Scott Walker. I'm gonna be pissed if he fails upward.

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I wonder what Jeff Sessions knows and might be encouraged to tell us about...
I doubt anything. He'll be grateful for the two years he got to crack down on immigrants and stuff, and keep his mouth shut like the loyal retainer he is, even after all the abuse Trump's hurled his way.
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Old 11-07-2018, 06:27 PM
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12:13 PM – 7 Nov 2018 Sessions, one of Trump’s earliest supporters, was called by Kelly, not the President this morning – @LauraAJarrett reports

Also, it is being reported that Sessions asked to wrap things up and leave Friday. Kelly said no.
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  #10  
Old 11-07-2018, 06:30 PM
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Here's what you all need to know:

The price of fixing democracy is going to be higher now. A few years ago, you could fix this shit with voting. Now? Some people might have to go to jail to defend democracy. That's the price of speaking truth to power, and that's what happens when a society becomes less democratic.
  #11  
Old 11-07-2018, 07:00 PM
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12:13 PM – 7 Nov 2018 Sessions, one of Trump’s earliest supporters, was called by Kelly, not the President this morning – @LauraAJarrett reports

Also, it is being reported that Sessions asked to wrap things up and leave Friday. Kelly said no.
One of the reasons I'm not Sessions is that I'd have told Kelly he can't fire me - he's not my boss, and unless my boss, the President, communicates to me that Kelly's now my boss and can fire me, well, he can just go suck it.
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Old 11-07-2018, 07:00 PM
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So, if Whitaker shuts down or interferes with Mueller, what happens? The House or some department starts an obstruction of justice probe?
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Old 11-07-2018, 07:09 PM
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So, if Whitaker shuts down or interferes with Mueller, what happens? The House or some department starts an obstruction of justice probe?
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

The House starts a probe, and then....what?

People, please, stop fucking deluding yourselves. The chance to deal with this shit was last night at the polls. We didn't deal with it. These are the consequences.

Time to sober up.
  #14  
Old 11-07-2018, 07:10 PM
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Here's what you all need to know:

Some people might have to go to jail to defend democracy.
So...tell my local police force that I want to go to jail "to defend Democracy"? I don't think they'll put me in jail for that.
  #15  
Old 11-07-2018, 09:47 PM
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I wonder what Jeff Sessions knows and might be encouraged to tell us about...
WTF? Sessions was happy to have the opportunity to be able to separate immigrant kids from their parents. I'm sure that racist (too racist for the Republicans to let him be a judge!) was just ecstatic to have that opportunity. I'm sure he'll go home and fantasize about all the kids still separated with no real records of who their parents are. I doubt that racist will have anything negative to say about the current administration.
  #16  
Old 11-07-2018, 09:52 PM
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BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

The House starts a probe, and then....what?
Well, Nixon expected that, and it did not work as he expected.
  #17  
Old 11-07-2018, 09:56 PM
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BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

The House starts a probe, and then....what?
Then they hire Robert Mueller to prepare a report on his findings and to continue with his investigations. They also start pursuing all the various subpoenas and contempt charges that Devin Nunes tried to bury. Then they incorporate the information from Donald's taxes via the House Ways & Means committee. Then they spend the next two years broadcasting this stuff on national television, while stuffing up Donald's budgets and other legislation.


Quote:
The chance to deal with this shit was last night at the polls. We didn't deal with it.
...... you know we won the House last night, right? It's a good outcome. It will have real consequences (speaking of). I don't think you understand the American system of government if you think controlling the House is pointless.

Dealing with this shit is going to take years but real progress has been made.

Who benefits by having hysterics because we can't solve all our troubles in one single night? I ask because the answer would not seem to be, "Democratic Americans doing the difficult work of actually dealing with our shit."

Last edited by Merneith; 11-07-2018 at 09:57 PM.
  #18  
Old 11-07-2018, 10:02 PM
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And now, for our production of "Sessionscrantz and Rosenstein Are Dead"...
Yep. We knew it. Sessions is gone for recusing himself (for doing the right thing) and Rosenstein is next. Obstruction. AGAIN. To get rid of Meuller and stop the Russia investigation.

Christ. What the fuck will it take before someone finally says "enough of this shit"?
  #19  
Old 11-07-2018, 10:39 PM
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Here's what you all need to know:

The price of fixing democracy is going to be higher now. A few years ago, you could fix this shit with voting. Now? Some people might have to go to jail to defend democracy. That's the price of speaking truth to power, and that's what happens when a society becomes less democratic.
Aye; I can't really argue with this.
  #20  
Old 11-07-2018, 10:46 PM
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One thing I won't miss is Session's stance on marijuana.
  #21  
Old 11-07-2018, 10:59 PM
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One of the reasons I'm not Sessions is that I'd have told Kelly he can't fire me - he's not my boss, and unless my boss, the President, communicates to me that Kelly's now my boss and can fire me, well, he can just go suck it.

As I've said before on this board, Trump has other people do his firing because if he were to do it in person, he'd be admitting to having made a mistake in hiring the person in the first place, and Trump is too proud of himself to admit such a thing.

Wasn't there a case many years ago where a cabinet secretary refused to resign and insisted the president couldn't replace him? Or am I remembering a plot device from some novel?
  #22  
Old 11-07-2018, 11:00 PM
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One thing I won't miss is Session's stance on marijuana.
The stock market apparently agrees with you.
Quote:
Forced out by President Donald Trump, Sessions tendered his resignation as the attorney general on Wednesday afternoon, and his departure has signaled the fall of a major political roadblock to more widespread legalization. In response, stock prices for cannabis businesses have leapt.
  #23  
Old 11-07-2018, 11:29 PM
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One thing I won't miss is Session's stance on marijuana.
Inconsolable Jeff Sessions Tries To Commit Suicide By Smoking Joint
  #24  
Old 11-07-2018, 11:57 PM
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So, if Whitaker shuts down or interferes with Mueller, what happens? The House or some department starts an obstruction of justice probe?
I think you just start the Calliope again?

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Time to sober up.
Username Irony.
  #25  
Old 11-08-2018, 01:01 AM
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I wouldn't be surprised if Mueller hasn't got the investigation sewn up. The report may already be printed and bound. I hope so anyway.
  #26  
Old 11-08-2018, 08:03 AM
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If Whitaker does shut down the Mueller investigation, I recommend immediate rioting, with possible lynching of Republicans from streetlamps.
First you might try some good, old-fashioned protesting.

You can search by zip code for protests near you here: https://act.moveon.org/event/mueller...events/search/ (you do not even have to sign-up if you do not want to be on their list...you can see the details without doing that...if you get on their list they will email you for other stuff including donations).

They have already called for protests starting tonight at 5p locally across the country.
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  #27  
Old 11-08-2018, 08:05 AM
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I wouldn't be surprised if Mueller hasn't got the investigation sewn up. The report may already be printed and bound. I hope so anyway.
Presumably the AG can make sure the report never sees the light of day. It'll be almost two months before Dems take control of congress. You can be sure they will try kill the investigation as much as possible before that.
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  #28  
Old 11-08-2018, 08:23 AM
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Then they hire Robert Mueller to prepare a report on his findings and to continue with his investigations. They also start pursuing all the various subpoenas and contempt charges that Devin Nunes tried to bury. Then they incorporate the information from Donald's taxes via the House Ways & Means committee. Then they spend the next two years broadcasting this stuff on national television, while stuffing up Donald's budgets and other legislation.




...... you know we won the House last night, right? It's a good outcome. It will have real consequences (speaking of). I don't think you understand the American system of government if you think controlling the House is pointless.

Dealing with this shit is going to take years but real progress has been made.

Who benefits by having hysterics because we can't solve all our troubles in one single night? I ask because the answer would not seem to be, "Democratic Americans doing the difficult work of actually dealing with our shit."
What happens if Mueller finds himself in a room with a bone saw?
  #29  
Old 11-08-2018, 08:44 AM
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BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

The House starts a probe, and then....what?

People, please, stop fucking deluding yourselves. The chance to deal with this shit was last night at the polls. We didn't deal with it. These are the consequences.

Time to sober up.
and then....what?
  #30  
Old 11-08-2018, 08:48 AM
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So, if Whitaker shuts down or interferes with Mueller, what happens? The House or some department starts an obstruction of justice probe?
The House can convene a hearing and call Mueller to testify publicly about his findings.

Question is how far his findings have gotten.

Pelosi might also try to tell Trump she will forego a subpoena for his tax returns or somesuch.

Maybe they could start their own investigation and hire Mueller? Dunno if they can do that.
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  #31  
Old 11-08-2018, 09:00 AM
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and then....what?
I know how you feel about asahi's pessimism, but...

If it is true that we are in a fighting retreat and have no real hope of actually winning until the revolution comes, I reckon that would be valuable strategic information.

I'm not saying that's the case. But what I get from asahi is not so much despair as the idea that those who believe we can "right the ship" are fundamentally mistaken about the nature of the battle we are waging.
  #32  
Old 11-08-2018, 09:15 AM
Merneith Merneith is offline
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Yes, the House committee could hire Mueller (if he's a free agent) to pursue their own select committee investigation. They could also subpoena all his records of his activities. They can subpoena Mueller and his team to testify about what they discovered.

Also we know Mueller has been sharing his findings with other law enforcement agencies. Those agencies can continue acting on the info that Mueller & his team have accumulated plus they can supply their own material to to the committee.

Mueller's been at this almost 18 months. It's too late to just throw some rugs over it.
  #33  
Old 11-08-2018, 09:18 AM
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I know how you feel about asahi's pessimism, but...

If it is true that we are in a fighting retreat and have no real hope of actually winning until the revolution comes, I reckon that would be valuable strategic information.

I'm not saying that's the case. But what I get from asahi is not so much despair as the idea that those who believe we can "right the ship" are fundamentally mistaken about the nature of the battle we are waging.
OK, but if we are mistaken, then what should we be doing, and why?

I'm trying to figure out why it's counterproductive to continue to work within the system, so to speak, to oppose the forces of Trumpism. I'm willing to concede that a good deal of it may wind up being a waste of time. (Though one of the problems is, we may not know for sure until we try.) But what's the opportunity cost? What should we be doing instead?
  #34  
Old 11-08-2018, 10:08 AM
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Trump has the impulse and intentional control of a 5-year-old. It shouldn't be that difficult to distract him into wasting much of the time he has left.

Making him think that Hillary Obama is in favor of something should make him kneejerk into opposing it and vice versa.

Congressional probes may not result in impeachment but they could find stuff that motivates more people to vote in 2020. They could also go after other Republicans, including appointees secretary-level and below who might squeal interesting things.
  #35  
Old 11-08-2018, 11:12 AM
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That one went onto my FB. Thanks.
  #36  
Old 11-08-2018, 11:16 AM
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Whitaker was only recently a small-time scammer.

Only the best.
  #37  
Old 11-08-2018, 11:34 AM
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Some people might have to go to jail to defend democracy.
Two thoughts

1) What illegal actions are you proposing that won't just make matters worse?
2) You first.
  #38  
Old 11-08-2018, 11:47 AM
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If Trump was as bad as you guys think he is, he’d nominate Eric Holder and really stick it to the immigrants.

Of course I don’t think cracking down on weed is as important to Trump as it was to Holder, Sessions, and Obama.

Last edited by WillFarnaby; 11-08-2018 at 11:50 AM.
  #39  
Old 11-08-2018, 11:57 AM
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What is next for Sessions? Wikipedia tells me that he turns 72 years old on Christmas Eve. Is it possible he would try to return to the Senate (AL) at 74 years old in 2020 or 76 years old in 2022?
  #40  
Old 11-08-2018, 12:10 PM
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What is next for Sessions? Wikipedia tells me that he turns 72 years old on Christmas Eve. Is it possible he would try to return to the Senate (AL) at 74 years old in 2020 or 76 years old in 2022?
Given that 21 current Senators, or over one fifth of the Senate, are 74 years old or older (and 9 are over 80), I can't see that as being a major obstacle.
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Old 11-08-2018, 01:06 PM
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Given that 21 current Senators, or over one fifth of the Senate, are 74 years old or older (and 9 are over 80), I can't see that as being a major obstacle.
This is a huge problem for our political system: The nation is run by geriatrics who should be retired.
  #42  
Old 11-08-2018, 01:08 PM
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If Trump was as bad as you guys think he is, he’d nominate Eric Holder and really stick it to the immigrants.

Of course I don’t think cracking down on weed is as important to Trump as it was to Holder, Sessions, and Obama.
You're trying to say something here, but damned if I can tell what it is.

The words are all in English, but they just aren't fitting together right.
  #43  
Old 11-08-2018, 01:22 PM
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You're trying to say something here, but damned if I can tell what it is.

The words are all in English, but they just aren't fitting together right.
Pretty much like all of his posts, then.
  #44  
Old 11-08-2018, 01:26 PM
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Given that 21 current Senators, or over one fifth of the Senate, are 74 years old or older (and 9 are over 80), I can't see that as being a major obstacle.
With the retirements of Mikulski, Cochran, and Hatch (and the death of McCain), there will be 5 Senators over 80 when the new Senate convenes in January: Feinstein, Grassley, Shelby, Inhofe, and Roberts. Feinstein (the oldest) was just re-elected; Inhofe and Roberts will be up for re-election in 2020; Grassley and Shelby in 2022.

That's still five too many.
  #45  
Old 11-08-2018, 01:46 PM
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Pretty much like all of his posts, then.
As I discovered in the course of dialogs like this, it's usually a waste of time trying to figure out what the fuck he means or why he's saying it, and a mistake trying to respond to it. I've had more productive conversations with my son's German Shepherd.

All anyone really needs to know is that his remarks are always plugging his particular brand of deluded far-right libertarian extremism. What, if anything, goes through his fevered brain when he actually puts the words together isn't interesting or useful.
  #46  
Old 11-08-2018, 02:07 PM
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Is Whitaker’s Appointment illegal?

(I posted this in elections but that thread seems to be petering out so I'll try here)

That is what judge Napolitano is suggesting. Is there anything to this?

Quote:
President Donald Trump’s appointment of Matthew Whitaker as Acting Attorney General may be illegal, Andrew Napolitano, senior judicial analyst for Fox News, said on Wednesday.

“Under the law, the person running the Department of Justice must have been approved by the United States Senate for some previous position. Even on an interim post,” Napolitano told Fox News’ Dana Perino.

<snip>

While Whitaker was confirmed by the Senate in 2004 when he was appointed U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of Iowa, Napolitano said that he was nevertheless ineligible to serve in his current post as the confirmation was not “for a leadership position in the Justice Department.”

SOURCE: https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...b0dbe871a69269
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  #47  
Old 11-08-2018, 02:11 PM
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(I posted this in elections but that thread seems to be petering out so I'll try here)

That is what judge Napolitano is suggesting. Is there anything to this?
For what it's worth, Kellyanne Conway's husband agrees.
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  #48  
Old 11-08-2018, 02:30 PM
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(I posted this in elections but that thread seems to be petering out so I'll try here)

That is what judge Napolitano is suggesting. Is there anything to this?
Cross-posted from GD:

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Originally Posted by Bricker View Post
I don't think there is any ambiguity. 5 USC § 3345 defines three classes of government employees eligible to temporarily perform the functions and duties of a vacant "advice and consent," office. The first two are iffy, perhaps, but Whitaker clearly qualifies under the third.

Whitaker served as Chief of Staff to AG Sessions immediately prior to Sessions' resignation, and the default and automatic first rule is that when an "advice and consent," office becomes vacant, "the first assistant to the office," becomes the acting officer. See §3345(a)(1).

The term "first assistant to the office," is not defined in §3345, and perhaps the administration might argue that the Chief of Staff is the "first assistant." But this would seem to be scuttled by 28 USC § 508, which provides specifically that for the Department of Justice, "...[F]or the purpose of section 3345 of title 5 the Deputy Attorney General is the first assistant to the Attorney General."

The second possibility is that the President may ask any other "advice and consent," officer to serve. The Senate approved Whitaker as a US Attorney, but I agree there's a time and function argument to be made there. Fortunately for Whitaker, if not for the rest of us, the third category is one under which he clearly qualifies.

The third rule: the President can select a senior "officer or employee," of the same executive agency, if that employee served in that agency for at least 90 days during the year preceding the vacancy and is paid at a rate equivalent to at least a GS-15 on the federal pay scale. §3345(a)(3).

That manifestly covers Whitaker, who has served as Chief of Staff since September 22, 2017, a position that's on the ES scale, and thus above a GS-15.
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Old 11-08-2018, 02:33 PM
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If Il Douche decides he must hang Hillary, he will schedule the execution for noon the next day and advise the Court that he wants their legal and Constitutional okey-dokey by eleven a.m. Even money that he gets it, and on schedule.
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Old 11-08-2018, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfpup View Post
As I discovered in the course of dialogs like this, it's usually a waste of time trying to figure out what the fuck he means or why he's saying it, and a mistake trying to respond to it. I've had more productive conversations with my son's German Shepherd.

All anyone really needs to know is that his remarks are always plugging his particular brand of deluded far-right libertarian extremism. What, if anything, goes through his fevered brain when he actually puts the words together isn't interesting or useful.
Yes you have been ethered several times, and have no shame in repeatedly linking to said etherings.
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