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Old 11-09-2018, 10:06 AM
N9IWP N9IWP is offline
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White House likley altered video of Jim Acosta

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/...kely-doctored/

Jim Acosta recently had his press badge revoked after an incident with a intern. Frame by frame analysis shows that the WH version is sped up to make Acosta's actions look more aggressive than they actually were.

Brian
  #2  
Old 11-09-2018, 10:15 AM
Snarky_Kong Snarky_Kong is offline
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Altering media to fit a narrative, revoking press credentials of critics, and using the power of the state to attempt to swing an election in your favor: all things that happened this week in the United States of America. Not Russia, not the DPRK, not Turkey, but here.


(may have also happened in those places)
  #3  
Old 11-09-2018, 10:31 AM
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To be fair, the White House didn't alter it, some rando at InfoWars did. Sarah Sanders simply tweeted it out via the official press secretary account without questioning it.

Somehow I feel like that's worse than if the WH actually did it.
  #4  
Old 11-09-2018, 10:36 AM
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It is funny how Trump loses his shit when not surrounded by yes men. The democrats should seriously pass a law restricting any President's right to ban the press, it is a flagrant abuse of power.
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Old 11-09-2018, 10:43 AM
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Tis small beer compared to the fact that we now have an illegally installed Attorney General. This Keystone Cops administration seems to outdo its own incompetence daily.

Is there a list somewhere of altered and intentionally misleading media that's been released by this administration? The Sarah Slanders video is hardly the first.
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Old 11-09-2018, 10:52 AM
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That kind of crap is going to be everywhere shortly.
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:05 AM
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...we now have an illegally installed Attorney General...
How so?
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:07 AM
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How so?
Today's NYT's OP ED

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The president is evading the requirement to seek the Senate’s advice and consent for the nation’s chief law enforcement officer and the person who will oversee the Mueller investigation.
  #9  
Old 11-09-2018, 11:20 AM
Lance Turbo Lance Turbo is offline
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Today's NYT's OP ED
Coauthored by Kellyanne Conway's husband.
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:20 AM
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Today's NYT's OP ED
Thanks, Procrustus. I thought the candidate had to be confirmed within 120 days.
  #11  
Old 11-09-2018, 11:26 AM
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Cross-posted from GD:
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I don't think there is any ambiguity. 5 USC § 3345 defines three classes of government employees eligible to temporarily perform the functions and duties of a vacant "advice and consent," office. The first two are iffy, perhaps, but Whitaker clearly qualifies under the third.

Whitaker served as Chief of Staff to AG Sessions immediately prior to Sessions' resignation, and the default and automatic first rule is that when an "advice and consent," office becomes vacant, "the first assistant to the office," becomes the acting officer. See §3345(a)(1).

The term "first assistant to the office," is not defined in §3345, and perhaps the administration might argue that the Chief of Staff is the "first assistant." But this would seem to be scuttled by 28 USC § 508, which provides specifically that for the Department of Justice, "...[F]or the purpose of section 3345 of title 5 the Deputy Attorney General is the first assistant to the Attorney General."

The second possibility is that the President may ask any other "advice and consent," officer to serve. The Senate approved Whitaker as a US Attorney, but I agree there's a time and function argument to be made there. Fortunately for Whitaker, if not for the rest of us, the third category is one under which he clearly qualifies.

The third rule: the President can select a senior "officer or employee," of the same executive agency, if that employee served in that agency for at least 90 days during the year preceding the vacancy and is paid at a rate equivalent to at least a GS-15 on the federal pay scale. §3345(a)(3).

That manifestly covers Whitaker, who has served as Chief of Staff since September 22, 2017, a position that's on the ES scale, and thus above a GS-15.
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:38 AM
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Are you guys trying out for the U.S. Olympic Hijack team? Most impressive.
  #13  
Old 11-09-2018, 11:48 AM
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This isn't about Sessions or Whitaker. Take that discussion to a different thread.

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  #14  
Old 11-09-2018, 11:49 AM
DSYoungEsq DSYoungEsq is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N9IWP View Post
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2018/...kely-doctored/

Jim Acosta recently had his press badge revoked after an incident with a intern. Frame by frame analysis shows that the WH version is sped up to make Acosta's actions look more aggressive than they actually were.

Brian
You are being less than scrupulous with your thread title and your post. As has been established in almost every story on this I was reading yesterday, the video was doctored by some right wing conspiracy site (exactly which one was still up for debate when I went to sleep). Sanders simply re-tweeted it as evidence to support the action taken against Acosta. Making an assertion that the White House itself did the alteration is defamation of character, under the circumstances.
  #15  
Old 11-09-2018, 12:33 PM
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Wrong. The White House used a poorly sourced video to defame a respected journalist. It's completely irresponsible for the White House to take random internet trash and present it as definitive. Unacceptable, in fact. Sanders should resign immediately.
  #16  
Old 11-09-2018, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DSYoungEsq View Post
You are being less than scrupulous with your thread title and your post. As has been established in almost every story on this I was reading yesterday, the video was doctored by some right wing conspiracy site (exactly which one was still up for debate when I went to sleep). Sanders simply re-tweeted it as evidence to support the action taken against Acosta. Making an assertion that the White House itself did the alteration is defamation of character, under the circumstances.
And now that this has been pointed out, Sanders will retract the tweet and offer a full clarification and apology to Acosta. I'm sure it's coming any minute now.

Last edited by Buck Godot; 11-09-2018 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:08 PM
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Acosta's press pass wasn't revoked based on the video. Trump and everyone else saw him behaving like an asshole first-hand. Can't you grasp at a better straw than that?

And no, not behaving like an asshole to Trump. Behaving like an asshole to the woman he put his hands on, and the other reporters in the room. Most people learn to take turns in kindergarten. Apparently not at CNN.

Acosta needs to learn that he is not the most important person in the room, and people are not there to listen to him. He won't, but he should.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:12 PM
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He was called on and tried to ask a question while Trump insulted him. That's all.
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Acosta's press pass wasn't revoked based on the video. Trump and everyone else saw him behaving like an asshole first-hand. Can't you grasp at a better straw than that?

And no, not behaving like an asshole to Trump. Behaving like an asshole to the woman he put his hands on, and the other reporters in the room. Most people learn to take turns in kindergarten. Apparently not at CNN.

Acosta needs to learn that he is not the most important person in the room, and people are not there to listen to him. He won't, but he should.

Regards,
Shodan
frankly, the intern was in the wrong for invading acosta's space, then grabbing the mic which he was obviously not giving to her. don't they teach people not to snatch things in kindergarten too?
  #20  
Old 11-09-2018, 02:38 PM
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He was called on and tried to ask a question while Trump insulted him. That's all.
That's not all. Acosta was also assaulted by White House staff.
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:41 PM
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it's obvious to a neutral observer that his arm is in the outstretched position, pointing at Trump, before the intern's arm entered his space. she put her arm into his space. any contact was incidental and the WH is making fake news out of the non-incident.
  #22  
Old 11-09-2018, 02:42 PM
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One of the absolute worst things about Trump (and there are many) is his relentless attack on the press. He may not know the implications of the phrase "enemy of the people," but the rest of us do. As do the advisers who wrote the phrase for him and encourage him to continue saying it.

Attacking a reporter for asking entirely legitimate questions, insulting him personally, and then revoking his press credentials are not acts that should be acceptable in the US. Of course, the tactic of attacking the press in general, as well as targeting specific reporters, suits Trump for a variety of reasons: it distracts people from the fact that he won't answer reasonable questions, it has a chilling effect on other journalists, it gives his followers a convenient scapegoat and discourages them from seeing the role of the media as a positive one, etc.

I spend a lot of time in Russia. We expect such behavior from Putin. We shouldn't expect it from a US president.
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Old 11-09-2018, 02:55 PM
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The White House is lying, and they know everyone knows that they're lying -- no one really thinks that Acosta assaulted or mishandled the woman he brushed against while she was trying to pull his mic away. But it doesn't matter -- it's an exercise in domination and humiliation. That so many conservatives are going along with these obvious lies just shows how thoroughly so many of them have accepted Trump's domination.
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Old 11-09-2018, 03:05 PM
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Acosta needs to learn that he is not the most important person in the room, and people are not there to listen to him. He won't, but he should.
Trump should learn that although he is the most important person in the room, the press has both a right and a duty to ask him questions and he is there to answer them, not to rant about "fake" (i.e. accurate) news reporting, lob infantile insults and dissemble with rambling gibberish about how great he is. He won't, but he should.
  #25  
Old 11-09-2018, 03:12 PM
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One of the absolute worst things about Trump (and there are many) is his relentless attack on the press. He may not know the implications of the phrase "enemy of the people," but the rest of us do. As do the advisers who wrote the phrase for him and encourage him to continue saying it.

Attacking a reporter for asking entirely legitimate questions, insulting him personally, and then revoking his press credentials are not acts that should be acceptable in the US. Of course, the tactic of attacking the press in general, as well as targeting specific reporters, suits Trump for a variety of reasons: it distracts people from the fact that he won't answer reasonable questions, it has a chilling effect on other journalists, it gives his followers a convenient scapegoat and discourages them from seeing the role of the media as a positive one, etc.

I spend a lot of time in Russia. We expect such behavior from Putin. We shouldn't expect it from a US president.
Actually from what little I've seen of Putin (the Q&A after the last summit, and a lengthy interview with him) he's far less abrasive than Trump and comes across as more rational, and certainly immeasurably more intelligent. Granted that they're both about equally ruthless, and Trump is being held in check only by existing American institutions and institutionalized freedoms, all of which he's systematically trying to dismantle so that he can emulate the heroes he so openly admires, Putin and Kim Jong Un.
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The White House is lying, and they know everyone knows that they're lying -- no one really thinks that Acosta assaulted or mishandled the woman he brushed against while she was trying to pull his mic away. But it doesn't matter -- it's an exercise in domination and humiliation. That so many conservatives are going along with these obvious lies just shows how thoroughly so many of them have accepted Trump's domination.
Agreed except for the part about "they know everyone knows that they're lying". Trump's base doesn't know anything unless Fox News or breitbart.com tells them, and I doubt that either of those are telling them that the WH video was tampered.

Just to add to the fiasco, another CNN reporter asked Trump (yesterday, I think) whether the appointment of Whitaker as acting AG would have the effect of reining in the Mueller investigation -- a rather central question in this whole sordid affair. His reply was to insult the reporter: "What an incredibly stupid question". Then he repeated the insult, and stormed off. The alt-right just loves this sort of thing. Decent Americans and the rest of the world can only watch in stunned bewilderment.

Last edited by wolfpup; 11-09-2018 at 03:13 PM.
  #26  
Old 11-09-2018, 03:12 PM
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I’m so incensed by the whole situation that I didn’t even address the issue of the White House lying about Acosta’s actions and making use of a doctored video. The members of this administration and its spokespeople lie reflexively, shamelessly, constantly. I would have thought that even they wouldn’t stoop so low as to accuse a reporter of something he didn’t do, using manufactured evidence to “support” the accusation. But I guess they don’t even have the shred of decency required to reject such tactics.
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Old 11-09-2018, 03:19 PM
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Acosta's press pass wasn't revoked based on the video. Trump and everyone else saw him behaving like an asshole first-hand. Can't you grasp at a better straw than that?
How do you feel about the White House Press Secretary spreading a doctored video to defame him?

No big deal?
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Old 11-09-2018, 04:00 PM
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"put his hands on her" is not credible, at any speed of that video.

Last edited by Bone; 11-09-2018 at 04:00 PM.
  #29  
Old 11-09-2018, 04:22 PM
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Indeed. The doctoring was not only immediately spotted, it was also pointless. I can barely tell the difference between the two clips, even side by side, and they both show the intern as being the one to (tentatively and reluctantly) get in his face.

I suppose the difference was supposed to be 'subliminal'. That would be another word for 'unnoticeable'. InfoWars might as well have just put up the right clip, they could have generated just as much outrage among people primed to be outraged.
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Old 11-09-2018, 05:03 PM
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Both sides do it, yada yada yada...


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  #31  
Old 11-09-2018, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by DSYoungEsq View Post
You are being less than scrupulous with your thread title and your post. As has been established in almost every story on this I was reading yesterday, the video was doctored by some right wing conspiracy site (exactly which one was still up for debate when I went to sleep). Sanders simply re-tweeted it as evidence to support the action taken against Acosta. Making an assertion that the White House itself did the alteration is defamation of character, under the circumstances.
Would "White House Shares Bullshit Video In Attempt To Smear Reputation Of Scary Reporter" ease your discomfort with the OP's terrible accusation?
  #32  
Old 11-09-2018, 08:35 PM
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Acosta's press pass wasn't revoked based on the video. Trump and everyone else saw him behaving like an asshole first-hand. Can't you grasp at a better straw than that?
Sarah Sanders tweeted this:

"We stand by our decision to revoke this individual’s hard pass. We will not tolerate the inappropriate behavior clearly documented in this video."

Along with the doctored video. So, the press pass was revoked based on the falsified video according to the people who revoked it. I suggest you should believe them.
  #33  
Old 11-09-2018, 09:41 PM
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Shodan, the White House and the Press Secretary has an obligation to make an honest effort to fact check (especially such easily verified BS) before speaking on behalf of the POTUS and the US of A. Retweeting Infowars doctored propaganda fails this bar.

Reminds me of when Trump retweets of UK far-right leader’s anti-Muslim videos that was roundly and rightfully criticized by Teresa May.
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Old 11-09-2018, 11:35 PM
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Would "White House Shares Bullshit Video In Attempt To Smear Reputation Of Scary Reporter" ease your discomfort with the OP's terrible accusation?
Do you agree that title of the thread and the claim of the OP are incorrect?

If so, what is the point of your post? Did I say that what Sanders re-tweeted was a good thing? Did I in ANY way defend the White House in my post? Did I in ANY way imply that I thought what the White House did was good, or proper?

If you are going to call out someone for a bad thing they have done, it behooves you not to do a bad thing yourself (making a false accusation is a bad thing, is it not?) in the process. All that does is allow the opposition to make the focus of the discussion be the bad thing YOU did, and not the bad thing you say THEY did. As someone who sits in the middle of much of the political debate in this country (and on this MB), I see way too much of this happening. I don't think it is a bad idea to call out someone who is committing that error.
  #35  
Old 11-10-2018, 12:51 AM
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Just wanted to point out Sanders didn't retweet the video, which would be linking a video from someone else's twitter account. She uploaded the video to her account. It could have come from info-wars, it could have come from the white supremacist, Paul Joseph Watson, who first posted it, or the white house could have been the ones to originally create it for all we know.

I'd assume she downloaded it from a site like infowars, then uploaded it herself to avoid showing her source, or it could have simply been a matter of her failing to manage her twitter account and accidentally downloading instead of sharing.
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Old 11-10-2018, 07:24 AM
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OP here. Yes, the title is incorrect. "White House uses likely doctored video of Jim Acosta" is better. This is my fault and not Ars Technica's

Brian
(could have sworn I posted this earlier)
  #37  
Old 11-10-2018, 07:36 AM
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Do you agree that title of the thread and the claim of the OP are incorrect?

If so, what is the point of your post? Did I say that what Sanders re-tweeted was a good thing? Did I in ANY way defend the White House in my post? Did I in ANY way imply that I thought what the White House did was good, or proper?

If you are going to call out someone for a bad thing they have done, it behooves you not to do a bad thing yourself (making a false accusation is a bad thing, is it not?) in the process. All that does is allow the opposition to make the focus of the discussion be the bad thing YOU did, and not the bad thing you say THEY did. As someone who sits in the middle of much of the political debate in this country (and on this MB), I see way too much of this happening. I don't think it is a bad idea to call out someone who is committing that error.
You implied defamation of character occurred in the OP, which is utter bullshit.
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Old 11-10-2018, 07:44 AM
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Hey, for what it's worth I thought this was in The Pit and it's too late to edit the above.
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Old 11-10-2018, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Acosta's press pass wasn't revoked based on the video. Trump and everyone else saw him behaving like an asshole first-hand. Can't you grasp at a better straw than that?

And no, not behaving like an asshole to Trump. Behaving like an asshole to the woman he put his hands on, and the other reporters in the room. Most people learn to take turns in kindergarten. Apparently not at CNN.

Acosta needs to learn that he is not the most important person in the room, and people are not there to listen to him. He won't, but he should.
Interesting.

It is the kind of discourse about the reporting that I read mostly chez the commentary in the authoritarian countries where adherence to the Leader overrides the values of the adherence to the challenging by a free press.

I found by chance from the linking this article, which seems to indicate that your laws do not allow for this kind of censorship via the intimidation.


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Actually from what little I've seen of Putin (the Q&A after the last summit, and a lengthy interview with him) he's far less abrasive than Trump and comes across as more rational, and certainly immeasurably more intelligent.
He is more competent than Trump. More disciplined. More organized.


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"put his hands on her" is not credible, at any speed of that video.
But it is a good demarche for the propaganda.

It is very fascinating to see how easy it is for a country to be dragged in its norms, and to see how the partisan tribal response allows that, for the behaviors we have normally only seen among the third world authoritarian countries become defended and normalized.

The US is not as special in its democracy and democratic culture as certain of its commentators over the time has shouted out to the world it thinks it is.

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Originally Posted by China Guy View Post
Shodan, the White House and the Press Secretary has an obligation to make an honest effort to fact check (especially such easily verified BS) before speaking on behalf of the POTUS and the US of A. Retweeting Infowars doctored propaganda fails this bar.

Reminds me of when Trump retweets of UK far-right leader’s anti-Muslim videos that was roundly and rightfully criticized by Teresa May.
it seems normalized now, the official repetition of the propaganda with the thin deniability it is not their direct product.

It is again something I see here in my arabe world, the new sources that are not official but close to the government (by the association of the owners) that structure the propaganda with the small deniability

Last edited by Ramira; 11-10-2018 at 07:52 AM.
  #40  
Old 11-10-2018, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Acosta's press pass wasn't revoked based on the video. Trump and everyone else saw him behaving like an asshole first-hand. Can't you grasp at a better straw than that?

And no, not behaving like an asshole to Trump. Behaving like an asshole to the woman he put his hands on, and the other reporters in the room. Most people learn to take turns in kindergarten. Apparently not at CNN.

Acosta needs to learn that he is not the most important person in the room, and people are not there to listen to him. He won't, but he should.

Regards,
Shodan
First, it was based on the video, at least according to Sarah Sanders.

Second, are you ready to defend your statement that he put his hands on the intern? That seems to be a minority opinion here, to say the least. I don't see it -- I see his arm coming down as he's making a point and trying to hang onto the mike.

Third, are you white-knighting the other reporters in the room? Because I've seen nothing but defenders of Acosta from other reputable news organizations. No one was complaining that he wasn't taking turns, just that he had his credentials revoked.

I know you're not a Trump supporter, so I don't know why you're apparently swallowing their lies about who put hands on who(m).
  #41  
Old 11-10-2018, 10:07 AM
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I know you're not a Trump supporter, so I don't know why you're apparently swallowing their lies about who put hands on who(m).
It does seem like such an obvious, blatant (and video supported lie) that it's absolutely mind boggling that anyone could possibly believe it.
  #42  
Old 11-10-2018, 10:09 AM
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Pro tip: he is a Trump supporter.
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Old 11-10-2018, 11:56 AM
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If so, what is the point of your post? Did I say that what Sanders re-tweeted was a good thing? Did I in ANY way defend the White House in my post? Did I in ANY way imply that I thought what the White House did was good, or proper?
Yes, by implication, when you decided the most important thing to highlight here was a trivial error of attribution made by someone on the internet, and not the deliberate attempt by the White House to smear a reporter using doctored footage.
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:02 PM
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The white house using doctored footage is totally unacceptable, but Acosta was way out of line.
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Old 11-10-2018, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Enola Gay View Post
The white house using doctored footage is totally unacceptable, but Acosta was way out of line.
No, he wasn't, that's ludicrous. If Acosta had just limply let go of that mike mid-sentence, without getting any questions answered, everybody would have either been disappointed in him and/or would have mocked him for it, depending on their biases. He acted 100% properly and appropriately, even immediately begging for pardon from the person who directly put him in that awkward situation.

Last edited by voltaire; 11-10-2018 at 12:33 PM.
  #46  
Old 11-10-2018, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Enola Gay View Post
The white house using doctored footage is totally unacceptable, but Acosta was way out of line.
If Acosta was out of line, so are many other reporters who question Sanders on an (until recently) almost daily basis. Regularly, after having even a few questions answered, do reporters try to squeeze in another and hold onto to the mic too long. Acosta is being singled out by the right because they don't like his questions and he makes the Trump admin look bad.

Last edited by Fiddle Peghead; 11-10-2018 at 12:56 PM.
  #47  
Old 11-10-2018, 01:13 PM
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I'm not convinced it wasn't a specific setup of Jim Acosta, particularly with how resolutely the intern tried to snatch the mike from him, and with the way she immediately looked towards Trump as if to say she tried her best to do what he told her.

Now, if Trump wanted someone to actually physically reposses the mike, I'm sure he would have no problem finding someone more qualified. But if what he wanted to setup was a characteristically lame attempt at a me-too gotcha, then we get what we saw here.

Last edited by voltaire; 11-10-2018 at 01:14 PM.
  #48  
Old 11-10-2018, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MDfive21 View Post
frankly, the intern was in the wrong for invading acosta's space, then grabbing the mic which he was obviously not giving to her. don't they teach people not to snatch things in kindergarten too?
The intern was in a tough spot being directed by POTUS on one hand and on the other, maybe trying not to be a total asshole to Acosta. It's also a situation where some slight physical contact is not unexpected--Jesus... their arms brushed... Acosta's a rapist!

I think perhaps the WH uses young female interns for press room mic passing so any physical contact with them can potentially be called sexual harassment/abuse (more easily than if the intern were male).

Last edited by I Love Me, Vol. I; 11-10-2018 at 01:26 PM.
  #49  
Old 11-10-2018, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by iamthewalrus(:3= View Post
How do you feel about the White House Press Secretary spreading a doctored video to defame him?

No big deal?
Do you think anyone at the WH knew the video was doctored? It's pretty subtle stuff. I've been a professional video editor for 20 years and I found some parts of the explanation of the doctoring a bit difficult to follow. I doubt Sanders or anyone else knew it was altered.
  #50  
Old 11-10-2018, 01:53 PM
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The White House attempting to smear the reputation of a reporter is pathetic. Period.
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