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  #1  
Old 11-09-2018, 06:42 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is online now
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"I am not anti-guns. I am anti-bullet holes in my patients."

I just heard this quote, via Twitter, on NBC News. I totally agree. It was in response to the NRA asshats saying something stupid about ER doctors.

I also wish I could reach through the TV and hug the mother of that Greek guy who survived the Las Vegas shooting only to die here, the one who said, "I don't want any more prayers, and no more guns!" Get her together with Emma Gonzalez, and I bet they could get something done.
  #2  
Old 11-09-2018, 06:45 PM
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#me too.
  #3  
Old 11-09-2018, 07:23 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is online now
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Here's what other doctors are saying on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/hashtag/thisisou...twgr%5Ehashtag
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:48 PM
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I once heard someone say "I approve of blood, just not people wearing it."
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:53 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baker View Post
I once heard someone say "I approve of blood, just not people wearing it."
While this wasn't the point of the thread, Billy Graham once said something like, "Of course sex is a good thing! I'm here because of it."

The tweet I slightly misquoted in my OP was in response to the NRA telling ER doctors to "stay in your lane" and they are replying that this IS their lane.
  #6  
Old 11-10-2018, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by nearwildheaven View Post
I just heard this quote, via Twitter, on NBC News. I totally agree. It was in response to the NRA asshats saying something stupid about ER doctors.

I also wish I could reach through the TV and hug the mother of that Greek guy who survived the Las Vegas shooting only to die here, the one who said, "I don't want any more prayers, and no more guns!" Get her together with Emma Gonzalez, and I bet they could get something done.
A good person who just got shot would not surprise me by saying this.

Am ER doctor wanting the gun control that only affects or effects honest law abiding citizens who says that about the next patient, a criminal who just killed a few kids in a convenience store hold-up, has no idea what the problem is. NRA is not the problem.

IMHO
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Old 11-10-2018, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by GusNSpot View Post
A good person who just got shot would not surprise me by saying this.

Am ER doctor wanting the gun control that only affects or effects honest law abiding citizens who says that about the next patient, a criminal who just killed a few kids in a convenience store hold-up, has no idea what the problem is. NRA is not the problem.

IMHO
So, you support extensive background checks to ensure that the buyer of a gun is a law abiding person? And gun registry so that if this law abiding person becomes not law abiding, his guns can be removed to make the rest of us safe?

Remember, the Las Vegas shooter was a law abiding person until he started killing.
  #8  
Old 11-10-2018, 02:55 PM
rsat3acr rsat3acr is offline
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So, you support extensive background checks to ensure that the buyer of a gun is a law abiding person? And gun registry so that if this law abiding person becomes not law abiding, his guns can be removed to make the rest of us safe?

Remember, the Las Vegas shooter was a law abiding person until he started killing.
I thought I recalled that he had illegal ammo,(I could be wrong) if so he was not a law abiding citizen prior to the shooting. Of course for al practical
purposes it doesn't matter
  #9  
Old 11-10-2018, 03:52 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is online now
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I still think that most doctors, police officers, EMTs, etc. are opposed to bullet holes in people, regardless of their views on gun control.
  #10  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:28 PM
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Working in the ER made me a gun control advocate. I still own a rifle and a pistol but I haven't touched them in over 10 years. I won't until I get rid of them.

I wish I was a better writer...

The ratio of "good gun use" to bad gun use is like 10 to 1 in my experience. I would like the NRA to come into my ER after a cop has been shot in the face or a child has shot their sibling. The NRA used to be about hunting, not so much anymore.
  #11  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by GusNSpot View Post
A good person who just got shot would not surprise me by saying this.

Am ER doctor wanting the gun control that only affects or effects honest law abiding citizens who says that about the next patient, a criminal who just killed a few kids in a convenience store hold-up, has no idea what the problem is. NRA is not the problem.

IMHO
As the kids are down in the morgue with bullet holes in them, the doctor still does know what the problem is.
  #12  
Old 11-10-2018, 05:16 PM
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By any measure firearms are a public health issue.
In 2014 there were 6,271 deaths due to AIDS.
In the same year, there were 12,979 firearm related homicides and 22,018 firearm related suicides.

The only difference being there is no pro-AIDS lobby. The NRA can be grouped with the anti-vaxxers in this regard.
  #13  
Old 11-10-2018, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by steatopygia View Post
Working in the ER made me a gun control advocate. I still own a rifle and a pistol but I haven't touched them in over 10 years. I won't until I get rid of them.

I wish I was a better writer...

The ratio of "good gun use" to bad gun use is like 10 to 1 in my experience. I would like the NRA to come into my ER after a cop has been shot in the face or a child has shot their sibling. The NRA used to be about hunting, not so much anymore.
You're in the same position as a tow-truck driver or auto mechanic: all they see are broken down cars, so they assume that the world is full of nothing but broken down cars. Not to negate your "10 to 1" ratio; it is, after all, your experience.

But considering your place of work, it is not necessarily reflective of reality.
  #14  
Old 11-10-2018, 05:33 PM
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posted in error

Last edited by OldGuy; 11-10-2018 at 05:34 PM. Reason: posted in error
  #15  
Old 11-10-2018, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by ExTank View Post
You're in the same position as a tow-truck driver or auto mechanic: all they see are broken down cars, so they assume that the world is full of nothing but broken down cars. Not to negate your "10 to 1" ratio; it is, after all, your experience.

But considering your place of work, it is not necessarily reflective of reality.
Right, and his experience is dealing with the consequences of living in a society awash in guns.

If you have a different line of work, you are more shielded from seeing those consequences, and so your experience of reality is naive of the harms caused by complete lack of effective gun control.
  #16  
Old 11-10-2018, 06:02 PM
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Doctors and other medical professionals accidentally kill 250,000 people per year, a preventable problem. I don't think Johns Hopkins has any particular bias.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...medical-errors
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Old 11-10-2018, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by ExTank View Post
You're in the same position as a tow-truck driver or auto mechanic: all they see are broken down cars, so they assume that the world is full of nothing but broken down cars. Not to negate your "give up on a child.10 to 1" ratio; it is, after all, your experience.

But considering your place of work, it is not necessarily reflective of reality.

Where I work just means I see the people that aren't immediately killed. I see the wounded. Unless it is a child, EMS never wants to call that in the field.

I see the hunting accidents, the gun cleaning accidents, the target shooting accidents, the child found a gun a accidents, the drunk playing with his gun accidents. I also see the people shot on purpose. The attempted murders, the criminals shot by cops, and yes, the criminals shot by homeowners. Bad to good is around 10 to 1. That doesn't take into account the bad guys that that wouldn't have been shot if they didn't have a gun.

You are aware that random gun murders have become so common in the US, that you can survive one, only to be killed in another 100's of miles away?

People (the NRA) blame it on video games, movies and television, or a lack of religion. That's BS and everyone knows it. The reason the US has so many deaths is because we have so many guns. Period.
Supporting the NRA agenda is like watching 10 people drown so that one person learns to swim.
  #18  
Old 11-10-2018, 07:28 PM
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You are aware that random gun murders have become so common in the US, that you can survive one, only to be killed in another 100's of miles away?
I wouldn't use a coincidence as proof of anything, that's like saying atomic bombings are incredibly common because people survived one only to die in another.
  #19  
Old 11-10-2018, 08:03 PM
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People (the NRA) blame it on video games, movies and television, or a lack of religion. That's BS and everyone knows it.
I'm waiting for some of the pro-gun people to start blaming these things on MTV, the way they did in the 80s and 90s.

Earlier today, I said on another board that what we really need is an armed person to storm into the NRA headquarters and start firing, although I personally don't want anyone shot. Chances are, a lot of the people employed by them "just work there". I was told more than once that this would probably enhance their power.

I have also wondered how long it would take to get some kind of reasonable, ENFORCED gun control if we had single-payer health care, and TPTB would see just how much this costs in dollar values, never mind the intangible losses.

Last edited by nearwildheaven; 11-10-2018 at 08:05 PM.
  #20  
Old 11-10-2018, 08:36 PM
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OK, you know what is the thing about this whole thing that riles me? The NRA telling the doctors to "stay in your lane". Are they saying that unless you are a firearms/security professional not only may your opinion be dismissed, but that you should just shut up and keep it to yourself? No way! The doctors are citizens, they have all the right to have opinions based on their observations and knowledge and express and advocate for them publicly. It's the legislators who get to either pay attention or not.

That fits right along with the apparent "well, nothing you can do, if people suffer it's an unfortunate consequence of freedom" position that the Right seems to take on a bunch of issues including not just guns but health care itself, climate change, poverty, etc.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 11-10-2018 at 08:37 PM.
  #21  
Old 11-10-2018, 08:49 PM
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I'm waiting for some of the pro-gun people to start blaming these things on MTV, the way they did in the 80s and 90s.
Wayne LaPierre does not speak for "pro gun people."
  #22  
Old 11-10-2018, 08:54 PM
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Doctors and other medical professionals accidentally kill 250,000 people per year, a preventable problem. I don't think Johns Hopkins has any particular bias.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...medical-errors
Oh, we'll solve that one, then. Because we're only allowed to work on one problem at a time.
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Old 11-10-2018, 09:27 PM
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You're in the same position as a tow-truck driver or auto mechanic: all they see are broken down cars, so they assume that the world is full of nothing but broken down cars.
This is a ridiculous statement. Tow-truck drivers and auto mechanics see non-broken-down cars around them all the time, just like the rest of us do.

Just because they only work with cars that are broken doesn't mean they're sacrificing their normal perceptions of the typical ratio of broken to non-broken cars in ordinary circumstances.

Likewise, ER workers live in the same world as the rest of us and have the same opportunities for comparing different types of gun use in ordinary circumstances as the rest of us do.
  #24  
Old 11-10-2018, 10:03 PM
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Twitter is blowing up over the tone deaf NRA with the hashtag #stayinmylane

This one jumps out

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Originally Posted by Judy Melinek M.D.

Do you have any idea how many bullets I pull out of corpses weekly? This isnít just my lane. Itís my fucking highway.
  #25  
Old 11-10-2018, 10:16 PM
thelurkinghorror thelurkinghorror is offline
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Oh, we'll solve that one, then. Because we're only allowed to work on one problem at a time.
Yet nobody cares to work on it. Yet the currently proposed "solutions" for the other problem had already been tried, and showed zero effect.
  #26  
Old 11-11-2018, 12:14 AM
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OK, you know what is the thing about this whole thing that riles me? The NRA telling the doctors to "stay in your lane". Are they saying that unless you are a firearms/security professional not only may your opinion be dismissed, but that you should just shut up and keep it to yourself?
Yes, that's what they're saying.

Most right-wingers know zero about government budgets but they "know" taxxus is teh bad and needs to go down so dem libruls stop sending mah money to dem shithole countries in Afferka.
Most right-wingers know zero about the tribulations of being black in America but they "know" if'n I dint like it heeare i'd pack my bags and hightail it to another country. And no Jesus-lovin cop nebber shot no blackie whut dint need shootin.

But when a rational thinker expresses an opinion about guns, he'd better be prepared to write an essay on the difference between .223 Remington and 5.56 NATO ammo, and how the barrel twist rate affects choice of ammo. Otherwise any opinion he has about guns is worthless.

Welcome to America.
  #27  
Old 11-11-2018, 12:20 AM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is online now
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Wayne LaPierre does not speak for "pro gun people."
"Pro gun" may not be the right terminology. How about "ammosexual"?
  #28  
Old 11-11-2018, 01:10 AM
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This is a ridiculous statement. Tow-truck drivers and auto mechanics see non-broken-down cars around them all the time, just like the rest of us do.

Just because they only work with cars that are broken doesn't mean they're sacrificing their normal perceptions of the typical ratio of broken to non-broken cars in ordinary circumstances.

Likewise, ER workers live in the same world as the rest of us and have the same opportunities for comparing different types of gun use in ordinary circumstances as the rest of us do.
Cu the shit; you know exactly what I was trying to relay in the analogy. For my original respondent's point, they'd either have to be:

1. Living in a war zone and operating out of a MASH unit,
2. engaging in serious confirmation bias,
3. totally full of shit.

I was nice and allowed, by analogy, that they might be engaging in confirmation bias. Even the worst neighborhoods in Chicago they don't have a 10:1 gunshot victims vs. ordinary patients ratio.
  #29  
Old 11-11-2018, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror View Post
Doctors and other medical professionals accidentally kill 250,000 people per year, a preventable problem. I don't think Johns Hopkins has any particular bias.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...medical-errors
A lot of those are linked to having a medical system where patients are shuffled, moved or kept and where which tests they get are based, not on need, but on ability to pay, in vs. out of network, and crap like that. Administrative shit.
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  #30  
Old 11-11-2018, 01:41 AM
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Cu the shit; you know exactly what I was trying to relay in the analogy. For my original respondent's point, they'd either have to be:

1. Living in a war zone and operating out of a MASH unit,
2. engaging in serious confirmation bias,
3. totally full of shit.

I was nice and allowed, by analogy, that they might be engaging in confirmation bias. Even the worst neighborhoods in Chicago they don't have a 10:1 gunshot victims vs. ordinary patients ratio.
Like I said, I'm a piss-poor writer. I don't mean 10 to 1 GSW vs regular patient. That ratio here is more like 1500-1, though it was worse when I worked in Dallas.

I mean a "good" use of a gun vs a "bad' use. I'm using the term good rather loosely. Good would be a police officer shooting a criminal that is attempting harm, or someone defending himself against an armed attacker. Yes, calling those "good" is debatable, but that is what I was referring to. All the other causes I listed for GSWs are "bad" or have no possible justification.
1 "good" shooting vs 10 "bad' shootings.
  #31  
Old 11-11-2018, 01:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ExTank View Post
Cu the shit; you know exactly what I was trying to relay in the analogy. For my original respondent's point, they'd either have to be:

1. Living in a war zone and operating out of a MASH unit,
2. engaging in serious confirmation bias,
3. totally full of shit.

I was nice and allowed, by analogy, that they might be engaging in confirmation bias. Even the worst neighborhoods in Chicago they don't have a 10:1 gunshot victims vs. ordinary patients ratio.
That's not what they said:
Quote:
The ratio of "good gun use" to bad gun use is like 10 to 1 in my experience. I would like the NRA to come into my ER after a cop has been shot in the face or a child has shot their sibling. The NRA used to be about hunting, not so much anymore.

Last edited by galen ubal; 11-11-2018 at 01:47 AM.
  #32  
Old 11-11-2018, 02:21 AM
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Originally Posted by steatopygia View Post
Like I said, I'm a piss-poor writer. I don't mean 10 to 1 GSW vs regular patient. That ratio here is more like 1500-1, though it was worse when I worked in Dallas.

I mean a "good" use of a gun vs a "bad' use. I'm using the term good rather loosely. Good would be a police officer shooting a criminal that is attempting harm, or someone defending himself against an armed attacker. Yes, calling those "good" is debatable, but that is what I was referring to. All the other causes I listed for GSWs are "bad" or have no possible justification.
1 "good" shooting vs 10 "bad' shootings.
You wrote it fine. ExTank apparently couldn't read it.
  #33  
Old 11-11-2018, 03:09 AM
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Yet nobody cares to work on it. Yet the currently proposed "solutions" for the other problem had already been tried, and showed zero effect.
All three of those statements are false.

1) The move to electronic medical records, computerized dispensaries, optical verification of prescriptions, call-and-repeat procedures, electronic pill bottles, and a dozen other things are being put into place specifically to combat the (incidently, widely disputed) "medical errors" problem.

2) The US has made no attempt to solve the gun problem with any of the "proposed solutions" in the last fifty years, at least. The NRA's money shuts down even trivial restrictions like assault weapon and large ammo bans.

3) These solutions are known to have non-zero effects, as shown by basically every other country on Earth in one way or another.

But let's keep up the distractions and irrelevant asides, because now is TOO SOON after this tragedy to talk about real gun control.
  #34  
Old 11-11-2018, 03:44 AM
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Pro-gun people will nitpick any number, graph, and rational argument for reasonable gun-control to death. They will pretend not to understand your argument while setting up some straw man (I submit into evidence Exibit 98345778222333A: the 1 in 10 ExTank claims to misunderstand). They will never provide numbers/graphs or anything to back up their claims

Do not engage.

Let them provide the numbers, Let them provide the rational arguments.

They are making extraordinary claims about the utility and safety of their deadly toys. Under normal debating rules they have to provide the fucking evidence.

Demand they make their toys safe. End it there.

Their guns: their problem Do not engage.
  #35  
Old 11-11-2018, 03:57 AM
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There is a place for guns. It is: inserted into the mouths of the fucking NRA. Every single one of them. (Though blowing NRA "brains" out is not a particularly dramatic act - all you get is a big puff of hot air that stinks of festering ego.)
  #36  
Old 11-11-2018, 04:36 AM
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Whoa there guys, tell us how you really feel!
  #37  
Old 11-11-2018, 10:40 AM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
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nm

Last edited by k9bfriender; 11-11-2018 at 10:40 AM.
  #38  
Old 11-11-2018, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by The Librarian View Post

Demand they make their toys safe. End it there.

Their guns: their problem Do not engage.
But making guns safe might cause them to take one second longer when they play John Wayne and shoot the bad guy, so it is totally unacceptable.

Unfortunately, it is their guns, our problem, since the rest of us are the ones getting shot. Perhaps we can have a rule that any gun possessor shooting an unarmed person in any way gets an immediate death penalty, while shooting an armed person goes through normal procedures with some jail time in the worst cases but otherwise a fine.
Maybe that would help.
  #39  
Old 11-11-2018, 03:05 PM
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But making guns safe might cause them to take one second longer when they play John Wayne and shoot the bad guy, so it is totally unacceptable.

Unfortunately, it is their guns, our problem, since the rest of us are the ones getting shot. Perhaps we can have a rule that any gun possessor shooting an unarmed person in any way gets an immediate death penalty, while shooting an armed person goes through normal procedures with some jail time in the worst cases but otherwise a fine.
Maybe that would help.
You have to make manufacturers, sellers, owners liable for any and all damage.
Let them figure out how they want to organise registration and all that shit.

"So you made this bullit? You don't know who you sold it to? That's a shame: $$$$ please"

Last edited by The Librarian; 11-11-2018 at 03:07 PM.
  #40  
Old 11-11-2018, 05:07 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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By any measure firearms are a public health issue.
In 2014 there were 6,271 deaths due to AIDS.
In the same year, there were 12,979 firearm related homicides and 22,018 firearm related suicides.
Suicide is a choice and a basic human right. Including deaths by suicide is one way to hide true numbers.

There were 500,000 Americans killed by smoking, 50,000 of which were killed by Second Hand smoke.

80,000 alcohol related deaths.
  #41  
Old 11-11-2018, 05:09 PM
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Like I said, I'm a piss-poor writer. I don't mean 10 to 1 GSW vs regular patient. That ratio here is more like 1500-1, though it was worse when I worked in Dallas.

I mean a "good" use of a gun vs a "bad' use. I'm using the term good rather loosely. Good would be a police officer shooting a criminal that is attempting harm, or someone defending himself against an armed attacker. Yes, calling those "good" is debatable, but that is what I was referring to. All the other causes I listed for GSWs are "bad" or have no possible justification.
1 "good" shooting vs 10 "bad' shootings.
Sure, because most "good" uses of guns dont includes pulling the trigger. I have given on this board the two times I had a "good" gun use, which prevented violent crimes- but I didnt have to shoot anyone.
  #42  
Old 11-11-2018, 05:12 PM
DrDeth DrDeth is offline
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But making guns safe might cause them to take one second longer when they play John Wayne and shoot the bad guy, so it is totally unacceptable.

Unfortunately, it is their guns, our problem, since the rest of us are the ones getting shot. Perhaps we can have a rule that any gun possessor shooting an unarmed person in any way gets an immediate death penalty, while shooting an armed person goes through normal procedures with some jail time in the worst cases but otherwise a fine.
Maybe that would help.
Guns are very safe.


You dont think a unarmed person can kill or hurt or rape someone?

And, you'd fine someone who shot a armed assailant? Even cops?
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Old 11-11-2018, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Suicide is a choice and a basic human right. Including deaths by suicide is one way to hide true numbers.
Suicide may be a right that I agree with, but easy access to suicide in a way that tempts people who are just having a momentary period of feeling down is a different matter.

As I've said before, if you equipped every alarm clock with a "Just Kill Me Now!" button next to the snooze, do you think that suicide would go up?

Do you think that it would be a good idea to equip them like that?
Quote:
There were 500,000 Americans killed by smoking, 50,000 of which were killed by Second Hand smoke.
And that number is going down, due to laws and regulations and social pressures. It'll take a while for it to really level off, as there are people who are dying from smoking related illness right now who quit smoking decades ago.

The effect of guns is a bit more immediate. You don't die from having having been a gun owner, or being around guns years ago, you usually only die from encountering a gun today. Any effects of tobacco policies will not be seen in the mortality statistics for decades. Effects of gun control policies can be seen much more immediately.

But, the first tobacco number is basically indistinguishable from suicide, and the second is very similar to people being irresponsible with firearms and harming those around them while enjoying "their rights".

We have made laws about not being able to smoke in many public enclosed places to address those numbers and to reduce the harm associated with smoking.


Quote:
80,000 alcohol related deaths.
A surprisingly few number of them are traffic related, but as is, we do pass laws to reduce those, making drinking and driving illegal. I have surprisingly encountered those who are against DUI laws, so I've stopped assuming that my interlocutor sees eye to eye on that. Are you against DUI laws?

But, there are many laws about alcohol. You can't have alcohol in public, you can't have it if you aren't of age, you can't consume too much of it and then subject yourself to the public, if you consume too much, you cannot use it as an excuse for assault or property damage, if a bartender gives you too much, and then you go on to do something harmful to yourself or others because he gave you too much, he can be found liable. We make laws and regulations to try to address the harms that alcohol causes society.

So, great, you brought up some other problems in our society. Problems that we are working on, and doing so successfully. Why you would bring up the problems that we are successfully working on as an excuse to not do anything to work on the harms that the free availability of guns causes is a mystery.
  #44  
Old 11-11-2018, 05:24 PM
k9bfriender k9bfriender is offline
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Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Sure, because most "good" uses of guns dont includes pulling the trigger. I have given on this board the two times I had a "good" gun use, which prevented violent crimes- but I didnt have to shoot anyone.
I've prevented at least 4 violent crimes, and I've never used a gun to do so(though a dog was involved in one of them). I didn't have to shoot anybody either.

Last edited by k9bfriender; 11-11-2018 at 05:25 PM.
  #45  
Old 11-11-2018, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDeth View Post
Suicide is a choice and a basic human right. Including deaths by suicide is one way to hide true numbers.

There were 500,000 Americans killed by smoking, 50,000 of which were killed by Second Hand smoke.

80,000 alcohol related deaths.
Unless you believe suicidal feelings are often very temporary. (This is well supported) and acces to gun will kill you 97% of the time; cutting or poison only succeeds 8% of attempts.
Then suicide with a gun is a gun death.

Again: nitpicking at a number, introducing a ton of irrelevant statistics, is not a debate.

Your toys kill people (the most likely victim is you, closely followed by your loved ones): make them safe.

There are warnings on tobacco, DUI is a crime. Stop trying to obfuscate the issue.
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  #46  
Old 11-11-2018, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidwithanR View Post
There is a place for guns. It is: inserted into the mouths of the fucking NRA. Every single one of them. (Though blowing NRA "brains" out is not a particularly dramatic act - all you get is a big puff of hot air that stinks of festering ego.)
The registration agreement makes clear that this type of post is over the line. "Do not post threats or state or imply that any individual or group is deserving of harm."
  #47  
Old 11-11-2018, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by TimeWinder View Post
1) The move to electronic medical records, computerized dispensaries, optical verification of prescriptions, call-and-repeat procedures, electronic pill bottles, and a dozen other things are being put into place specifically to combat the (incidently, widely disputed) "medical errors" problem.
Good to know.

What's an "electronic pill bottle"?
Quote:
2) The US has made no attempt to solve the gun problem with any of the "proposed solutions" in the last fifty years, at least. The NRA's money shuts down even trivial restrictions like assault weapon and large ammo bans.
Exactly. We tried that, and it did not appear to have much of an effect.

What is a "large ammo ban"? Like 50 BMG (zero murders by civilians)? Or like limiting the amount of ammo people can buy? I never understood why people would want to encourage untrained gun owners.

Quote:
3) These solutions are known to have non-zero effects, as shown by basically every other country on Earth in one way or another.
You can find lots of countries with high murder and strict gun control, and others with low levels of both. None of that is evidence for anything; that and your examples are not controlled experiments and involve many other societal factors. But it sure casts a lot of doubt on a causal relationship.
  #48  
Old 11-12-2018, 01:06 AM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is online now
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Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror View Post
What's an "electronic pill bottle"?
The first I heard of them was in the early days of the AIDS epidemic, when they came out with medications that had to be taken multiple times a day, and they would give off a signal when it was time to take that particular medication. Some people with organ transplants or other complex medical conditions also use them.

They can also be used to block access to meds, as in people with addiction issues who are using a controlled substtance.
  #49  
Old 11-12-2018, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror View Post
You can find lots of countries with high murder and strict gun control, and others with low levels of both. None of that is evidence for anything; that and your examples are not controlled experiments and involve many other societal factors. But it sure casts a lot of doubt on a causal relationship.
Such as? And are the gun laws enforced?

California has strict gun laws, relative to much of the country, and this NY Times article says that our firearm death rate is half that of Florida.
Ah, but that guy killed lots of people anyway, you say. We passed a proposition against high capacity magazines in 2016, which was to go into affect in 2017. Why was the shooter able to buy one anyhow? Because the ban did not go into affect due to a lawsuit brought by the NRA.
I consider them accomplices.
BTW, we have a low gun-death rate despite having lots of illegal immigrants who the racist Trumpists think bring crime.
Think of how many American lives could be saved if the entire country had California's gun laws.
  #50  
Old 11-12-2018, 01:58 AM
Isamu Isamu is offline
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Originally Posted by thelurkinghorror View Post
Good to know.
Exactly. We tried that, and it did not appear to have much of an effect.
You responded to a poster talking about "weapon bans", and you replied saying the above.

The truth is the US has never had an assault weapon ban. They were never illegal. The actual truth is there was a 10 year ban from 1994-2004 on SALES. But the ones that were already out there in people's hands were too numerous to count and were completely unnafected by the ban on sales. The ban on sales only counted for under6% of firearm sales anyway!

While it was a step in the right direction and may have saved lives (there is literally no way to know) if could never have been effective on a large scale against gun deaths. Everyone with common sense knows how disingenuous it is to say "we tried it and it didn't work".

Last edited by Isamu; 11-12-2018 at 01:58 AM.
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