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Old 11-11-2018, 12:39 PM
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Guess what THIS veteran is doing this Veteran's Day

Staying in, so the 93% of his fellow Americans who DIDN'T serve can crowd into every conceivable retailer to cash in on the holiday sales he gave a portion of his life away to secure. God Bless America, The West, and capitalism. And happy 100th anniversary of the end of the first war to end all wars. Glad to see military service means something in this wicked world.
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Old 11-11-2018, 12:53 PM
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Drafted, huh? That must have been rough.
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Old 11-11-2018, 12:55 PM
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I remember the one time that I went to buy something on V-day. The ad said 20% off for all veterans with ID card. So I went and told the salesman what I wanted, but when I showed him my retired ID card, he said "Oh, sorry, it only applies to active duty." A pretty safe sale to have in a city where there are no military bases within a hundred miles or more, and a pretty sleazy tactic, as well. So I told him to stick it up his ass and I left.

On the plus side, the local New Seasons grocery chain gives a veteran discount of 10% every Tuesday, active or retired.
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Old 11-11-2018, 01:04 PM
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Drafted, huh? That must have been rough.
I'm sure it was for the fellows who got drafted to die in WWI & WWI & Korea & Vietnam. I really can't think of a better way to memorialize those whose lives were stolen by their governments than to hawk products created by Chinese slaves at pretend discount prices because Veterans! Thank the gollies for the volunteers and draftees, now get out there and fight each other for some retail crap! Praise the vets and the glorious dead and the endless wars...aw fuck that, too depressing, go shopping instead!
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Old 11-11-2018, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Chefguy View Post
I remember the one time that I went to buy something on V-day. The ad said 20% off for all veterans with ID card. So I went and told the salesman what I wanted, but when I showed him my retired ID card, he said "Oh, sorry, it only applies to active duty."

Am I crazy, or does it seem a little weird to call active duty folks “veterans” in the first place? I mean, I can see how it’d be technically accurate, but that definitely feels misleading to me.
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Old 11-11-2018, 01:59 PM
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I recently saw a gym or something that has a discount for COMBAT veterans. I think that's a good way to go.
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Old 11-11-2018, 02:10 PM
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I recently saw a gym or something that has a discount for COMBAT veterans. I think that's a good way to go.
How the hell does somebody prove that he is a combat veteran? In some cases, with a DD214 in hand, you could show you were stationed in a combat zone, but not always. A duty assignment of 3rd Marine Division says nothing about where you were.
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Old 11-11-2018, 02:39 PM
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I don't shop. I watch Formula One, play with my dogs and drink beer.

You mad at me, Bro?
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Old 11-11-2018, 02:45 PM
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I don’t shop on Presidents Day, either, to show the proper respect for the illustrious Washington and Lincoln.

As a matter of fact, I don’t shop much at all.
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  #10  
Old 11-11-2018, 03:36 PM
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For the first time in several years, I am not spending this day shagging phone calls on the Veterans Crisis Line*. I'm sad about this, honestly, because it was the best way I know to contribute my love, time, and ability to veterans and victims of the American War Machine.

Inigo, Chef, drop, Tank, Doors, and all the other vet Dopers, you have my love and gratitude. I ain't shopping today.


*1-800-273-8255, press 1
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Old 11-11-2018, 04:56 PM
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For the first time in several years, I am not spending this day shagging phone calls on the Veterans Crisis Line*.
(bolding mine) I'm not familiar with this use of "shagging." If it's not a typo, then I'd like to know its meaning and usage. I can guess from context a bit, but I suspect there's more to it.

And if it is a typo or autocorrect, I'm curious what word you meant. '

As for the OP: I've never done anything commercial on Veteran's Day. It wouldn't occur to me to go looking for that stuff. I'm gonna have any flowers and such ahead of time.

I do wish we had the more somber traditions of other countries, though. Pausing on the road to remember? Sounds nice and respectful.
  #12  
Old 11-11-2018, 05:03 PM
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(bolding mine) I'm not familiar with this use of "shagging." If it's not a typo, then I'd like to know its meaning and usage. I can guess from context a bit, but I suspect there's more to it.

And if it is a typo or autocorrect, I'm curious what word you meant.
Term taken from baseball:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shagging_(baseball)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
In baseball, shagging is the act of catching fly balls in the outfield outside the context of an actual baseball game.
They meant that they're in a call center 'catching' the next call up on the trunk line. Perfectly cromulent usage of the term. I've also heard it used at a tennis camp/class, golf course driving range, and a tech support center, etc.
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Old 11-11-2018, 05:15 PM
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Well I stayed in also. But the sales don't bother me.
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Old 11-11-2018, 05:19 PM
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Much obliged, Zakalwe!
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Old 11-11-2018, 05:32 PM
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Hey, I thought it was tomorrow we were supposed to shop! Since it's the Federal holiday and all.

The Firebug and I ran some errands today, wasn't a heavy shopper though, just this and that.

Tried to decide whether we've gotten any wiser since November 11, 1918. Too soon to tell, I guess.
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Old 11-11-2018, 07:41 PM
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Thank you doper vets for your service. I appreciate it.
Tomorrow, I'll fly my flag and I'll take flowers to Daddy's grave. That's about it. I ain't shopping. I got enough of that crap to do on a regular day.
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Old 11-11-2018, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya View Post
Staying in, so the 93% of his fellow Americans who DIDN'T serve can crowd into every conceivable retailer to cash in on the holiday sales he gave a portion of his life away to secure. God Bless America, The West, and capitalism. And happy 100th anniversary of the end of the first war to end all wars. Glad to see military service means something in this wicked world.
I stayed home too. I drank coffee and played Warcraft. It was very relaxing.
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Old 11-11-2018, 10:02 PM
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Tried to decide whether we've gotten any wiser since November 11, 1918. Too soon to tell, I guess.
I vote that we have not. Sobering thought.
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Old 11-11-2018, 10:25 PM
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Not a veteran myself — a pacifist, temperamentally at least. I spent a big chunk of my day revisiting the poetry of Siegfried Sassoon.
Quote:
I knew a simple soldier boy
Who grinned at life in empty joy,
Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
And whistled early with the lark.
In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
He put a bullet through his brain.
No one spoke of him again.

You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
Quote:
“Good-morning, good-morning!” the General said
When we met him last week on our way to the line.
Now the soldiers he smiled at are most of 'em dead,
And we're cursing his staff for incompetent swine.
“He's a cheery old card,” grunted Harry to Jack
As they slogged up to Arras with rifle and pack.

But he did for them both by his plan of attack.
There are much better WWI poets — Owen was a friend of his — but Sassoon exemplifies the transition from 19th to 20th century to me. Traditional forms used to savage his military and cultural traditions. And a pretty funny poet, when he tried.

All this is a roundabout way of saying
1) I wish we still called it Armistice Day
2) thank you for your service — all of y’all who served.
  #20  
Old 11-11-2018, 11:03 PM
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Am I crazy, or does it seem a little weird to call active duty folks “veterans” in the first place? I mean, I can see how it’d be technically accurate, but that definitely feels misleading to me.

My wife is South Korean and she finds it rather amusing that we call anyone who served in the military a veteran. In her country, only people who've been in combat are veterans.
  #21  
Old 11-12-2018, 12:46 AM
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In honor of Veterans Day, this reminiscence by Kurt Vonnegut, from his Cat's Cradle:

Quote:
So this book is a sidewalk strewn with junk, trash which I throw over my shoulders as I travel in time back to November eleventh, nineteen hundred and twenty-two.
I will come to a time in my backwards trip when November eleventh, accidentally my birthday, was a sacred day called Armistice Day. When I was a boy, and when Dwayne Hoover was a boy, all the people of all the nations which had fought in the First World War were silent during the eleventh minute of the eleventh hour of Armistice Day, which was the eleventh day of the eleventh month.

It was during that minute in nineteen hundred and eighteen, that millions upon millions of human beings stopped butchering one another. I have talked to old men who were on battlefields during that minute. They have told me in one way or another that the sudden silence was the Voice of God. So we still have among us some men who can remember when God spoke clearly to mankind.

Armistice Day has become Veterans' Day. Armistice Day was sacred. Veterans' Day is not.

So I will throw Veterans' Day over my shoulder. Armistice Day I will keep. I don't want to throw away any sacred things.

What else is sacred? Oh, Romeo and Juliet, for instance.

And all music is.
And, from his Mother Night:

Quote:
"Oh, it's just so damn cheap, so damn typical." I said, "This used to be a day in honor of the dead of World War One, but the living couldn't keep their grubby hands off of it, wanted the glory of the dead for themselves. So typical, so typical. Any time anything of real dignity appears in this country, it's torn to shreds and thrown to the mob."
  #22  
Old 11-12-2018, 07:34 AM
DavidwithanR DavidwithanR is offline
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My wife is South Korean and she finds it rather amusing that we call anyone who served in the military a veteran. In her country, only people who've been in combat are veterans.
In the US, only people who've been in combat are veterans. The fact that every person who has so much as enlisted gets FALSELY CALLED "veteran", doesn't MAKE them one.

Watching Americans give false honor and false glory to themselves personally, as they accumulate fake virtue points by pretending to honor the fake veterans, is either funny or sickening, or both.
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Old 11-12-2018, 07:36 AM
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Which branch did you serve in Dravid?
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  #24  
Old 11-12-2018, 07:59 AM
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In the US, only people who've been in combat are veterans. The fact that every person who has so much as enlisted gets FALSELY CALLED "veteran", doesn't MAKE them one.

Watching Americans give false honor and false glory to themselves personally, as they accumulate fake virtue points by pretending to honor the fake veterans, is either funny or sickening, or both.
Serving in the military but not seeing combat means you're not a veteran? So what are the conditions? I mean I knew a lot of people that were in the Navy on my ship for Desert Storm, but nothing was shot at the USS Ranger despite actually being in the Persian Gulf. By your judgement, are they vets or false vets? My father served during Korea, never actually got close to combat, so not a vet?

Me, I was only Cold War, nothing hot, so I will have to resign myself as false vet in your mind.
  #25  
Old 11-12-2018, 08:14 AM
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We were going to take my father-in-law, who is a Korean War vet, out for breakfast on Sunday, but I woke up with a sore throat and we had to postpone.

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Originally Posted by RTFirefly View Post
Hey, I thought it was tomorrow we were supposed to shop! Since it's the Federal holiday and all.
There is large furniture chain who runs a ton of TV ads every holiday for their "Big <holiday> Day Sale!" Then at the very end of the ads in that really fast disclaimer voice they use so they hope you don't notice, "Closed <holiday> Day." I guess it's a good thing that employees get to enjoy the holiday but it always strikes me as odd that the store is closed on the specific day that they are advertising a Big Sale for.
  #26  
Old 11-12-2018, 09:18 AM
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In the US, only people who've been in combat are veterans. The fact that every person who has so much as enlisted gets FALSELY CALLED "veteran", doesn't MAKE them one.
I've never heard this before, and I think it's a load of crap.
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Old 11-12-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidwithanR View Post
In the US, only people who've been in combat are veterans. The fact that every person who has so much as enlisted gets FALSELY CALLED "veteran", doesn't MAKE them one.

Watching Americans give false honor and false glory to themselves personally, as they accumulate fake virtue points by pretending to honor the fake veterans, is either funny or sickening, or both.
Cite?
It’s been 35+ years since I was on active duty and 25+ years since I was a drilling reservist and I suffer from PSF (post-service forgetfulness) so my remarks should be taken with hypertension-inducing levels of salt (I was Navy and am old so I could be called “an old salt”).
Anyways, Title 38 U.S. Code Chapter 1 VETERANS' BENEFITS PART I—GENERAL PROVISIONS states:
(2) The term “veteran” means a person who served in the active military, naval, or air service, and who was discharged or released therefrom under conditions other than dishonorable. (Since the site pages have been reorganized, I can’t find the ATMB section [12?] to make links.)

DavidwithanR’s remark about seeing combat defining veteran status brings to mind SF-171, the application for federal jobs, which asked about veteran status and granted veteran preference points for service during defined periods of conflict.

To sum up, a member who served in the military during a defined period of conflict is a subset of members who served in the military, both of which are in the set of veterans.

Last edited by dba Fred; 11-12-2018 at 10:37 AM. Reason: forgot to quote
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Old 11-12-2018, 11:56 AM
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I'm a longtime reservist, not a "veteran" by any measure, and I was in uniform on parade in Place du Canada.
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  #29  
Old 11-12-2018, 12:11 PM
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Cite?
It’s been 35+ years since I was on active duty and 25+ years since I was a drilling reservist and I suffer from PSF (post-service forgetfulness) so my remarks should be taken with hypertension-inducing levels of salt (I was Navy and am old so I could be called “an old salt”).
Anyways, Title 38 U.S. Code Chapter 1 VETERANS' BENEFITS PART I—GENERAL PROVISIONS states:
(2) The term “veteran” means a person who served in the active military, naval, or air service, and who was discharged or released therefrom under conditions other than dishonorable. (Since the site pages have been reorganized, I can’t find the ATMB section [12?] to make links.)

DavidwithanR’s remark about seeing combat defining veteran status brings to mind SF-171, the application for federal jobs, which asked about veteran status and granted veteran preference points for service during defined periods of conflict.

To sum up, a member who served in the military during a defined period of conflict is a subset of members who served in the military, both of which are in the set of veterans.
He can't cite what is a dumb-ass opinion. He would have to cite himself and he would then probably hurt himself.
  #30  
Old 11-12-2018, 01:31 PM
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I go to a bar that gives veterans their first beer for free. I try to get there early enough to pay for their second. Others have copied me over the years. The end result is that they can drink as much as they want without spending any money.
  #31  
Old 11-12-2018, 01:44 PM
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I've never heard this before, and I think it's a load of crap.
Ditto. My wife works for the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (the VA), and she agrees.

She (and I) are also both veterans -- she was a Navy nurse, and I was a submarine officer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dba Fred View Post
...Anyways, Title 38 U.S. Code Chapter 1 VETERANS' BENEFITS PART I—GENERAL PROVISIONS states:
(2) The term “veteran” means a person who served in the active military, naval, or air service, and who was discharged or released therefrom under conditions other than dishonorable.

...To sum up, a member who served in the military during a defined period of conflict is a subset of members who served in the military, both of which are in the set of veterans.
Exactly.
  #32  
Old 11-12-2018, 02:02 PM
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The ad said 20% off for all veterans with ID card. So I went and told the salesman what I wanted, but when I showed him my retired ID card, he said "Oh, sorry, it only applies to active duty."
I wonder if he tells people with an proof of active duty "oh, sorry, if you're active duty you're not a veteran yet, and that's who we're celebrating on Veteran's Day."
  #33  
Old 11-12-2018, 02:14 PM
Ukulele Ike Ukulele Ike is offline
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Thank you for the Vonnegut quote, Captain Amazing.

I shopped this morning for a Napa cabbage, a lime, a chile, and a half-pound of shrimp, because I’m making Tom yum soup tonight. Is that okay?
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  #34  
Old 11-12-2018, 02:20 PM
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I must admit, while I look forward to DavidwithanR coming back and admitting he just made up his own definition of "veteran", and was talking out of his ass as usual, I also owe him some gratitude. I've struggled a bit with that whole "Did ya deploy?" aspect of veteran status. Intellectually I've come to accept that deployment is not necessary to be a vet, but still..... And then our boy drops that turd and I was like, "Hey now! I did my bit and carved out a chunk of my life--don't be taking that label away from me!"
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Old 11-12-2018, 02:34 PM
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They have Veterans day sales now? Shows how much I pay attention.
  #36  
Old 11-13-2018, 02:28 AM
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They have Veterans day sales now? Shows how much I pay attention.
Hell, they have Memorial Day sales. Gee, sure am glad soldiers died so I can get that discount on carpet shampoo.
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Old 11-13-2018, 08:02 AM
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Hey, I thought it was tomorrow we were supposed to shop! Since it's the Federal holiday and all.

The Firebug and I ran some errands today, wasn't a heavy shopper though, just this and that.

Tried to decide whether we've gotten any wiser since November 11, 1918. Too soon to tell, I guess.
It's taking longer than we thought...
  #38  
Old 11-13-2018, 08:53 AM
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Not Veterans Day here, rather Armistice Day, and I'm not a vet, and I did go shopping (to the supermarket).

But at 11am, the tannoy in the large supermarket invited everyone to stand and hold a two minute silence. And we all did.
  #39  
Old 11-13-2018, 09:00 AM
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I must admit, while I look forward to DavidwithanR coming back and admitting he just made up his own definition of "veteran", and was talking out of his ass as usual, I also owe him some gratitude. I've struggled a bit with that whole "Did ya deploy?" aspect of veteran status. Intellectually I've come to accept that deployment is not necessary to be a vet, but still..... And then our boy drops that turd and I was like, "Hey now! I did my bit and carved out a chunk of my life--don't be taking that label away from me!"
A friend of mine spent Desert Storm getting planes loaded with shipments to the war zone. He was as proud of that certificate of service (I'm sure that's not its proper name) as he was of his engineering degree, if not more. The people in the frontlines can't do much shooting if the bullets haven't gotten there, and that means someone has to do the loading.
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Old 11-13-2018, 09:19 AM
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But at 11am, the tannoy in the large supermarket invited everyone to stand and hold a two minute silence. And we all did.
TIL what a tannoy is. (What we'd call a PA or public address system.
  #41  
Old 11-13-2018, 10:34 AM
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I must admit, while I look forward to DavidwithanR coming back and admitting he just made up his own definition of "veteran", and was talking out of his ass as usual
I don't think you'll be getting that chance.
  #42  
Old 11-13-2018, 10:38 AM
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Ah...sweet ambivalence.
  #43  
Old 11-13-2018, 10:47 AM
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A sweet load of crap?
  #44  
Old 11-13-2018, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Inigo Montoya View Post
I must admit, while I look forward to DavidwithanR coming back and admitting he just made up his own definition of "veteran", and was talking out of his ass as usual, I also owe him some gratitude. I've struggled a bit with that whole "Did ya deploy?" aspect of veteran status. Intellectually I've come to accept that deployment is not necessary to be a vet, but still..... And then our boy drops that turd and I was like, "Hey now! I did my bit and carved out a chunk of my life--don't be taking that label away from me!"
I think he was AnnedwithaB.

Last edited by JohnT; 11-13-2018 at 10:49 AM.
  #45  
Old 11-14-2018, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by andros View Post
Inigo, Chef, drop, Tank, Doors, and all the other vet Dopers, you have my love and gratitude.
WHOA! Don't put me in that hallowed and deserving lot! For 18 years I've been quite upfront about making no effort whatsoever to accept our good Uncle's invitation to the festivities in SE Asia. He didn't insist (lottery #273) and neither did I.
  #46  
Old 11-14-2018, 09:09 AM
andros andros is offline
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Fuck's sake, I knew that. No excuses. I blame the legal weed.
  #47  
Old 11-14-2018, 09:48 AM
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Bullitt Bullitt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnT View Post
I think he was AnnedwithaB.
<hijack>
How / where did he get AnnedwithaB?
</hijack>
  #48  
Old 11-14-2018, 10:00 AM
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Telemark Telemark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bullitt View Post
How / where did he get AnnedwithaB?
Same place everyone banned does, in ATMB.
  #49  
Old 11-14-2018, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Telemark View Post
Same place everyone banned does, in ATMB.
I did look there but clearly I missed it. Thanks.
  #50  
Old 11-14-2018, 05:19 PM
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Remembrance Day here in Canada. I spent it with thousands of others at the National War Memorial for the annual ceremony. No special sales here, and the stores aren't even allowed to open until 12:30, after the ceremonies are over.
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