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Old 11-14-2018, 10:21 AM
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Why not Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand for President in the 2020 Democratic Primary?

She is popular in the large state of New York. Kirsten Gillibrand was a moderate Dem (Blue Dog) and only 51 currently. She is not known as ardently anti-gun, though she has moved towards more regulations since Sandy Hook.

She speaks well, it will take a while for the Republican machines to tar and feather her as a liar or a Pelosi liberal.

We generally know the Dems need a young candidate, a popular Governor might be better, but none seem to stand out. Most of the other popular potential candidates will be 70+ by the time of election or maybe Beto O'Rourke who has not even held a Senate seat yet.
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:25 AM
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I like her a lot (as far as politicians go) and would consider her if she runs. That's all I'll say right now.
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:27 AM
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I like her a lot (as far as politicians go) and would consider her if she runs. That's all I'll say right now.
I should have added as a bit of a poll, are you a Dem, Rep or Ind?
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:34 AM
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I should have added as a bit of a poll, are you a Dem, Rep or Ind?
I'm a Democrat.
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:59 AM
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I think she should run, and not just because I bought 100 shares of Gillibrand 2020 Dem Nominee at $0.08 at PredictIt.

I don't know if she'll win. It's up to her to make that case.
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Old 11-14-2018, 11:05 AM
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She is popular in the large state of New York. Kirsten Gillibrand was a moderate Dem (Blue Dog) and only 51 currently. She is not known as ardently anti-gun, though she has moved towards more regulations since Sandy Hook.

She speaks well, it will take a while for the Republican machines to tar and feather her as a liar or a Pelosi liberal.

We generally know the Dems need a young candidate, a popular Governor might be better, but none seem to stand out. Most of the other popular potential candidates will be 70+ by the time of election or maybe Beto O'Rourke who has not even held a Senate seat yet.
While I'm partial towards Gillibrand, I think it's way too early to make a decision. There are plenty of other good candidates who are likely to run, and I want to get a better fix on where they stand and what they're like. I'm thinking about Kamala Harris, Cory Booker, Amy Klobuchar, Sherrod Brown, and Elizabeth Warren. And I'm hoping one or two others that I like might run.

With respect to the age issue, Harris is 54, Booker's 49, Klobuchar's 58, Brown's 66, and Warren's 69. (JFTR, I don't think either Biden or Sanders will be a viable candidate this cycle, which is why I didn't list them. Warren or Brown might, though.) So as I see it, the field's more tilted towards a new generation than to the geriatric set.

So no reason why not Gillibrand at this time, but the same is true for a number of others. It's still 2018; the primaries are over a year away. Plenty of time to size them up.
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Old 11-14-2018, 11:32 AM
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I’m a Democrat, but she starts off just one point above Bernie Sanders on my list. Her little publicity stunt of stabbing Al Franken in the back earned her no favor with me. I’ll be looking elsewhere in the primaries.
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Old 11-14-2018, 11:35 AM
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I'm not convinced a Senator is the right choice, I'm not convinced a New Yorker is the right choice, I'm not convinced a woman is the right choice. At least for the top of the ticket. That's why I don't like Gillibrand. I could probably overlook one of those things, but not three. ETA: Also the Al Franken thing. I don't think that did her any good, it "branded" her (that's what most of Americans' first impression of her was), for better or worse.

I'm a Democrat.

Last edited by Happy Lendervedder; 11-14-2018 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 11-14-2018, 11:52 AM
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Here's Senator Gillibrand a few weeks ago in an election debate. (I've skipped the Standby message -- you'll still have to skip to 6:20 before she first speaks.)

For this performance I'll give her a B; not a B+. I do not see her as quite Presidential. No; unfortunately I have nobody obviously better to offer.

Last edited by septimus; 11-14-2018 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 11-14-2018, 11:56 AM
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The job of a legislator is to investigate issues, brainstorm solutions, and finalize an answer via compromise.

The job of the President is to oversee the smooth functioning of the government and to have a greater strategy for the country, to sell to the legislators.

Gillibrand seems to be a yes-man to whatever the polls are saying which, while perhaps making her popular, is in essence the opposite of what a legislator is supposed to do to. I've not seen any evidence that she is particularly fit for her job as a legislator, let alone the Executive Branch. And she'll get hammered to hell for being so close to Hillary Clinton. And really does just come across as "younger Hillary Clinton".

If that horse already failed you twice, hoping that a younger clone will somehow do better is probably not a recipe for success.

Last edited by Sage Rat; 11-14-2018 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:00 PM
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Iím a Democrat, but she starts off just one point above Bernie Sanders on my list. Her little publicity stunt of stabbing Al Franken in the back earned her no favor with me. Iíll be looking elsewhere in the primaries.
That's one of the biggest points in her favor, IMO. She was one of the bravest Democrats in that particular instance, bucking the older conventional-wisdom crowd and recognizing that with #MeToo we need to treat sexual assault and harassment much more seriously. And Franken used to be my very favorite Senator.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:13 PM
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That's one of the biggest points in her favor, IMO. She was one of the bravest Democrats in that particular instance, bucking the older conventional-wisdom crowd and recognizing that with #MeToo we need to treat sexual assault and harassment much more seriously. And Franken used to be my very favorite Senator.
In favor of her winning or in favor of you liking her? You may not realize it but your views on how to handle sexual harassment are far off the mainstream.

And speaking of winnability, the OP might look into when the last time was that a Democrat from the northeat won the presidency.

Last edited by John Mace; 11-14-2018 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:17 PM
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In favor of her winning or in favor of you liking her? You may not realize it but your views on how to handle sexual harassment are far off the mainstream.

And speaking of winnability, the OP might look into when the last time was that a Democrat from the northeat won the presidency.
In favor of me liking her. As far as where she's from, the same argument was used against Obama -- when was the last time a Chicago/Illinois Democrat won the Presidency? We've only had 5 Democratic presidents since Truman.... not exactly a large sample size. I think what state they hail from is of far, far lesser importance then their political talent, as far as ability to win elections.

Not that I'm even favoring Gillibrand at this point -- I just like her. If forced to cast my vote this second, I'd vote for Klobuchar. But assuming she ran a good primary campaign, I'd be happy with her as the nominee.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:29 PM
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I don't think the question for any candidate is "why not". It's "why". She's relatively young, she's moved to the left and is now a fairly standard issue liberal. That's all fine, but she needs a signature issue. What will it be? "Restoring the moral center" (from a tobacco lawyer). Abolishing ICE?

She's apparently a good fund-raiser, which might help her.

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Shodan
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:33 PM
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I don't think the question for any candidate is "why not". It's "why". She's relatively young, she's moved to the left and is now a fairly standard issue liberal. That's all fine, but she needs a signature issue. What will it be? "Restoring the moral center" (from a tobacco lawyer). Abolishing ICE?

She's apparently a good fund-raiser, which might help her.

Regards,
Shodan
Fighting sexual assault in the military as well as in broader society could be her signature issue. Not sure if the country cares about fighting sexual assault enough for that to work, though. We should, as a country, but I'm not sure if we do.
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Old 11-14-2018, 12:57 PM
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I like Gillibrand fine and would happily vote for her for POTUS. Of course if the GOP candidate is Trump (as seems very likely at this point) I'd vote for my geriatric incontinent cat if she were the Dem candidate.

Right now (and subject to change any minute) my dream slate is Joseph Kennedy III/Tammy Duckworth. Together they hit about every demographic except age, and I think running two young people against the GOP's tired old white men is a good idea.
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Old 11-14-2018, 01:08 PM
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That's one of the biggest points in her favor, IMO. She was one of the bravest Democrats in that particular instance, bucking the older conventional-wisdom crowd and recognizing that with #MeToo we need to treat sexual assault and harassment much more seriously. And Franken used to be my very favorite Senator.
Yes. Bravely throwing a potential rival for the nomination under the bus when opportunity presented.
You really are not that naive to think it was not that rather than sudden attack of the principles?
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Old 11-14-2018, 01:11 PM
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Fighting sexual assault in the military as well as in broader society could be her signature issue. Not sure if the country cares about fighting sexual assault enough for that to work, though. We should, as a country, but I'm not sure if we do.
If she does get the nom, she probably won't pick Corey Booker as her running mate.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 11-14-2018, 01:15 PM
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If she does get the nom, she probably won't pick Corey Booker as her running mate.

Regards,
Shodan
???

Are you talking about the time Booker was in college and wrote about how he was personally affected by patriarchal rape culture? If you're actually interested in that, I'd be happy to contribute in another thread, but it would seem like a hijack for this one.
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Old 11-14-2018, 01:17 PM
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Yes. Bravely throwing a potential rival for the nomination under the bus when opportunity presented.
You really are not that naive to think it was not that rather than sudden attack of the principles?
Doing the right thing is doing the right thing, whatever the motive. I can't read her mind, but I'm inclined to support people who do the right thing, whatever the reason, over people who do not do the right thing.
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:01 PM
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Are you talking about the time Booker was in college and wrote about how he was personally affected by patriarchal rape culture?
Is that the excuse now? Hmm. Didn't seem to help with Franken. Maybe Spartacus can bring it off, but I doubt it.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:06 PM
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Is that the excuse now? Hmm. Didn't seem to help with Franken. Maybe Spartacus can bring it off, but I doubt it.

Regards,
Shodan
Still can't interpret what the hell you're talking about, but it's a hijack, so I'll drop it. I'm sure if you're actually interested in the topic than you'll start a thread on it.
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:18 PM
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I'm independent and I think Gillibrand is about as strong a candidate as the Democrats could put forward. At least she's generally well respected, the question would be whether or not she can handle herself face to face with Trump.
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:21 PM
Ulf the Unwashed Ulf the Unwashed is offline
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Yes. Bravely throwing a potential rival for the nomination under the bus when opportunity presented.
You really are not that naive to think it was not that rather than sudden attack of the principles?
Given that there are about three dozen potential Democratic candidates, of whom Franken was only one, it seems rather pointless to throw Franken "under the bus" simply to get rid of him as a rival. Especially because Franken is an older Midwestern man while Gillibrand is a younger Northeastern woman; it's hard to see how Franken being out of the race would be a big boost to her campaign.

Also, it's worth noting that sexual assault, particularly in the military, has been something that Gillibrand has taken quite seriously. It is entirely within character for her to take on Franken on that principle.

Now if Gillibrand undercuts Cory Booker, Kamala Harris, Elizabeth Warren, Amy Klobuchar, and Bernie Sanders one by one over the next few months, I might consider changing my mind. (Though if she does so successfully, I think we'd have to consider the possibility that she is really, really good at realpolitik and would perhaps be an excellent nominee for that reason.)

Last edited by Ulf the Unwashed; 11-14-2018 at 03:22 PM.
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:33 PM
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She seems Ok.

I have issues with her ties to Big Tobacco.

But we really want someone from the South or Rust Belt. New York is in the bag already.

She also switches positions at the drop of a hat.
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:48 PM
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She will get pilloried by Republicans for her statements on Kavanaugh.
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Old 11-14-2018, 03:52 PM
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She will get pilloried by Republicans for her statements on Kavanaugh.
Wouldn't the same be true of any potential candidate from the Democratic Party? They were almost uniformly opposed to Kavanaugh. (those who weren't opposed to him won't have a chance).
  #28  
Old 11-14-2018, 04:14 PM
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I think she has potential. The idea of "female Senator from NY" does bring on some PTSD symptoms, but I'm not sure that's really fair or relevant. She does seem to be pretty close to the middle of the ideological road within the Democratic Party, so potentially could be acceptable to both progressives and establishment types. OTOH, she's probably not getting Hillary's endorsement, after saying earlier this year that she thought Bill should have resigned over the Lewinsky affair.

I'm not familiar enough with her to pass judgment on how big a problem this is, but one knock I've heard on her is that she has a history of flip-flopping; specifically, I've heard that her position on gun control rapidly "evolved" when she went from representing a rural district to running in a Statewide NY election.

Overall, I see her as one of a fairly large number of potentially serious contenders at this point.
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Old 11-14-2018, 04:26 PM
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I think she has potential. The idea of "female Senator from NY" does bring on some PTSD symptoms, but I'm not sure that's really fair or relevant. She does seem to be pretty close to the middle of the ideological road within the Democratic Party, so potentially could be acceptable to both progressives and establishment types. OTOH, she's probably not getting Hillary's endorsement, after saying earlier this year that she thought Bill should have resigned over the Lewinsky affair.

I'm not familiar enough with her to pass judgment on how big a problem this is, but one knock I've heard on her is that she has a history of flip-flopping; specifically, I've heard that her position on gun control rapidly "evolved" when she went from representing a rural district to running in a Statewide NY election.

Overall, I see her as one of a fairly large number of potentially serious contenders at this point.
She didn't flip-flop as much as drift to the left from the conservative side when she went from representing a conservative region of NY State to being the junior Senator of the entire state. Actually the correct thing to do as an elected representative I would think.
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Old 11-14-2018, 04:33 PM
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I like that she has consistently opposed Trump's nominees.

As for ties to tobacco, well, that's not good. It's better than ties to firearms or petroleum, but in principle, I'd like someone with no strings.
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Old 11-14-2018, 05:22 PM
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She will get pilloried by Republicans for her statements on Kavanaugh.
Maybe, but will that matter?

Swing state senators who voted against Kavanaugh went 9-1 in senate races last week.

Swing state senators who voted for Kavanaugh went 0-1.

The Kavanaugh effect helped Democrats not Republicans.
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Old 11-14-2018, 06:04 PM
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Her recent record on Israel-related issues (supporting the Iran deal, removing her name from anti-BDS legislation, visible friendship with Linda Sarsour) will resonate badly with the voting public in the center, which tends to be pro-Israel. If she's the Democratic nominee, the Republicans will absolutely make that a big issue, and Trump has major pro-Israel credentials he can tout in his favor for those voters.
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Old 11-14-2018, 07:29 PM
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Her recent record on Israel-related issues (supporting the Iran deal, removing her name from anti-BDS legislation, visible friendship with Linda Sarsour) will resonate badly with the voting public in the center, which tends to be pro-Israel. If she's the Democratic nominee, the Republicans will absolutely make that a big issue, and Trump has major pro-Israel credentials he can tout in his favor for those voters.
Hahaha. Good one.
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Old 11-14-2018, 09:51 PM
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That's one of the biggest points in her favor, IMO. She was one of the bravest Democrats in that particular instance, bucking the older conventional-wisdom crowd and recognizing that with #MeToo we need to treat sexual assault and harassment much more seriously. And Franken used to be my very favorite Senator.
Hrmm. I could have sworn it was her taking out potential competition before any momentum was established. There's politicking and there's politicking, after all.
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:28 PM
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There are enough potential serious Democratic candidates, all of whom are clearly and unambiguously better than Trump, that I don't think it's productive to research any of them too deeply yet, and absent such research, I don't think it's reasonable to have a strong preference for any of them yet. Of those potential serious candidates, some will run and some won't, and of those who run, some will already be out by the time my state holds primaries. Once I know who will be in Ohio's primary, it will make sense for me to do research then and determine which one I prefer, rather than wasting time on candidates I'll never even get the opportunity to support.

Gillibrand is a serious potential candidate (as opposed to, say, Avenatti or Oprah). That's about all I have to say about her yet.
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Old 11-14-2018, 10:37 PM
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Hrmm. I could have sworn it was her taking out potential competition before any momentum was established.
...I could have sworn that Franken took himself out because he couldn't keep his grubby hands to himself.
  #37  
Old 11-14-2018, 11:02 PM
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No need to refight the Franken fracas ... it is if nothing else clear that those who would be voting in primaries are not in strong agreement about how admirable or shamefully self-serving her posture in that episode was. Agree or disagree with the perception a large group of Democratic voters have now pegged her as self-serving not principled. Many have her now placed as someone who will move to whatever position seems convenient to have, trying to get in front of where a crowd is going so she can claim to be leading them. It could be a wrong perception but the degree to which it is held handicaps her prospects to win the nomination and to win the election if she won the nomination.

Better to have someone without that baggage, who does not come in a divisive force among Democrats right out of the gate. Better to have someone whose authenticity is not in question.
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Old 11-14-2018, 11:53 PM
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I'm independent and I think Gillibrand is about as strong a candidate as the Democrats could put forward.
I'm a Democrat and I don't think she is even the best woman Senator who could be chosen as the candidate. That nod, IMO, goes to Klobuchar. I'll admit up front that I don't know as much as i should about either Senator but from what I have seen, Klobuchar has really impressed me. Gillenbrand not nearly as much. I mean, I wouldn't really be upset if she became the nominee but I wouldnt be excited or happy either. She's a bit mediocre and kinda forgettable.

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Gillibrand is a serious potential candidate (as opposed to, say, Avenatti or Oprah). That's about all I have to say about her yet.
Well I think we can scratch Avenatti off the list of potential candidates of any caliber now.

Last edited by Ambivalid; 11-14-2018 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:38 AM
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...I could have sworn that Franken took himself out because he couldn't keep his grubby hands to himself.
No, because he mixed up being a comedian with being a Senator. What he did was for laughs. It's still wrong, but he wasn't being a horndog so much as totally inappropriate.
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:47 AM
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No need to refight the Franken fracas ...
...if people are going to repeat (what, IMHO are) baseless accusations then I think we need to "refight the Franken fracas." Especially if the argument is that "Gillibrand is tainted, even if the allegations against her are not true".
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Old 11-15-2018, 12:55 AM
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No, because he mixed up being a comedian with being a Senator. What he did was for laughs. It's still wrong, but he wasn't being a horndog so much as totally inappropriate.
...how was grabbing Lindsay Menz by the buttocks "done for laughs?" How about when he grabbed Stephanie Kemplin by the breasts? It doesn't matter if he was "being a horndog" or just being "totally inappropriate." If he had kept his grubby hands to himself he'd still be a US Senator. That he is no longer a US Senator is not Gillibrand's fault.
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Old 11-15-2018, 07:37 AM
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Hrmm. I could have sworn it was her taking out potential competition before any momentum was established. There's politicking and there's politicking, after all.
Doing the right thing is still better than the alternative, or than waiting until one has political cover to do the right thing, no matter the motive. Since I can't read minds, I'm forced to judge by actions and words, and Gillibrand did the right thing before most of the other Democratic contenders.

But again, I just consider that a point in her favor, not necessarily the deciding factor.
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Old 11-15-2018, 11:44 AM
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...if people are going to repeat (what, IMHO are) baseless accusations then I think we need to "refight the Franken fracas." Especially if the argument is that "Gillibrand is tainted, even if the allegations against her are not true".
Thing is your humble opinions and many others' are not going to agree. The lot of us can/would argue about that ad nauseum (and have in the past) and not convince each other of the error of the others' ways.

Is that where we should be going into a general election season?
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Old 11-15-2018, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
Thing is your humble opinions and many others' are not going to agree. The lot of us can/would argue about that ad nauseum (and have in the past) and not convince each other of the error of the others' ways.

Is that where we should be going into a general election season?
...this thread is in Great Debates. We argue ad nauseum here. We often do not not convince each other of the error of the others' ways. Thats kinda the point. I don't live in America. I'm not American. I'm not going to censor myself going into "a general election season" because of some misguided sense of unity.
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Old 11-15-2018, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Banquet Bear View Post
...this thread is in Great Debates. We argue ad nauseum here. We often do not not convince each other of the error of the others' ways. Thats kinda the point. I don't live in America. I'm not American. I'm not going to censor myself going into "a general election season" because of some misguided sense of unity.
Sorry but you have completely missed the point. Perhaps I was not clear enough.

The point is not about what we argue about here in Elections or in GD, and the point is not about arguing with you, even if you were an American. The point is that the fact of the matter is that in the case of a Gillibrand run there would be these ad nauseum arguments continuing and those who see her as someone whose has principles and convictions that hinge mainly on what she thinks will be good for herself are many now, and they are unlikely to suddenly be convinced otherwise. There are other women who may run who have the cred (#metoo and otherwise) that is more widely accepted as authentic and who are not as divisive among Ds and D leaners. Men too.

The simple fact that a thread discussing her possible candidacy could easily devolve into another prolonged airing out of differences over what was fair and right or not in regards to Franken, tells us something I think. That something is not that she would be a good candidate to have as the all rally behind nominee.

Why not Gillibrand? Too many potential D voters think of her as an inauthentic opportunist with no real convictions for her to win or be the best possible nominee. Why not Gillibrand? She does not inspire. Why not Gillibrand? Because we have several significantly better choices.
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Old 11-16-2018, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
Sorry but you have completely missed the point. Perhaps I was not clear enough.
...nope. You were crystal clear.

Quote:
The point is not about what we argue about here in Elections or in GD, and the point is not about arguing with you, even if you were an American. The point is that the fact of the matter is that in the case of a Gillibrand run there would be these ad nauseum arguments continuing and those who see her as someone whose has principles and convictions that hinge mainly on what she thinks will be good for herself are many now, and they are unlikely to suddenly be convinced otherwise.
I think its perfectly reasonable to address the accuracy of the narrative. And I couldn't think of a better place to address that accuracy than in this very thread. This is a message-board, not the "real world". This is a debate. We are debating here. It isn't my job to "convince the average voter." What happens outside of this thread is none of my concern.

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There are other women who may run who have the cred (#metoo and otherwise) that is more widely accepted as authentic and who are not as divisive among Ds and D leaners. Men too.
Sure. But people are questioning her authenticity in this thread. I have every right to express my opinion here, to engage in debate, thats the entire point of this forum.

Quote:
The simple fact that a thread discussing her possible candidacy could easily devolve into another prolonged airing out of differences over what was fair and right or not in regards to Franken, tells us something I think.
Yep. Its tells us how easily it is to create a narrative out of thin air, how easy it is to get people to accept that narrative, and how keen people are to get people to "shut up" in defense of that narrative.

What exactly did Gillibrand do wrong in regards to Franken? Kamala Harris, Maggie Hassan, Claire McCaskill, Mazie Hirono, Tammy Baldwin, and Patty Murray all came forward asking Franken to go. Were they all wrong? We shouldn't consider Kamala Harris for the presidency, because she held the same opinion as Gillibrand and therefore isn't "authentic"?

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That something is not that she would be a good candidate to have as the all rally behind nominee.
Nope. That "something" is how easy it is to destroy a potentially fantastic candidate by simply making something up: then repeating that "something" every time her name is mentioned.

Quote:
Why not Gillibrand? Too many potential D voters think of her as an inauthentic opportunist with no real convictions for her to win or be the best possible nominee. Why not Gillibrand? She does not inspire. Why not Gillibrand? Because we have several significantly better choices.
I haven't argued that Gillibrand should get the nomination. But if potential democrat voters think that someone who has spent a significant amount of their career standing up for the rights of the sexually abused, taking on "multiple pro bono cases defending abused women and their children", " proposed legislation that would remove sexual assault cases from the military chain of command", as someone "with no real convictions" and as "an inauthentic opportunist" then I'm here to correct the record for them. This is the straight-dope after all, and we are here to fight ignorance.

Women are used to getting punished for speaking out against sexual harassment and sexual assault. Christine Blasey Ford is still receiving death threats, has had to move four times, and still hasn't gone back to work. According to you Gillibrand should not be considered as a presidential contender because people have "branded her an opportunist" for being "one-of-many" calling for a man who couldn't keep his grubby hands to himself to step down from office.

I don't necessarily disagree with your ultimate conclusion. But that conclusion is based on what I consider a completely false narrative. I don't see anything wrong with arguing that the narrative that has destroyed any chance of Gillibrand standing for higher office is based on a false premise. That's my point.
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Old 11-16-2018, 03:56 AM
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Christine Blasey Ford has had to move four times
This is really true? Do you have a cite for this? I'm not saying it to challenge you, simply in attempt to fight my own ignorance. But if true, wtf? Is she paying for all these repeated uprootings? If so, that is completely outrageous.
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Old 11-16-2018, 04:11 AM
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This is really true? Do you have a cite for this? I'm not saying it to challenge you, simply in attempt to fight my own ignorance. But if true, wtf? Is she paying for all these repeated uprootings? If so, that is completely outrageous.
https://www.vox.com/2018/11/8/180761...naugh-gofundme

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Because of the abuse sheís receiving, Ford has had to move four times. She canít go to work as a professor at Palo Alto University, and itís unclear when sheíll be able to return, according to NPR. She needs a private security detail.
...original source her go-fund-me page.

https://www.gofundme.com/help-christine-blasey-ford
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Old 11-16-2018, 04:56 AM
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Yes. Bravely throwing a potential rival for the nomination under the bus when opportunity presented.
You really are not that naive to think it was not that rather than sudden attack of the principles?
Do you think it likely that Gillibrand threw Franken "under the bus" in large part because he might otherwise have been a rival for the Presidential nomination? (Though I doubt if Franken could ever have been more than a minor also-ran for the Presidency.) It sounds like that's what you're saying, but I want to be clear.

If that is what you're suggesting here, then your extreme cynicism about politics must give you nightmares. Do you want our thoughts and prayers?

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... I don't think it's reasonable to have a strong preference for any of them yet. Of those potential serious candidates, some will run and some won't, and of those who run, some will already be out by the time my state holds primaries. Once I know who will be in Ohio's primary, it will make sense for me to do research then and determine which one I prefer, rather than wasting time on candidates I'll never even get the opportunity to support.
I take the opposite point of view. This is the SDMB, intellectual heartbeat of North America. We must assume the responsibility of doing the hard work, drafting those who need to be drafted, stifling those who will just be disruptive distractions. If we haven't made our wisdom visible to the candidates (and cigar smokers?) before primary season, we may be too late! (Certainly the wise men waited too long to explain the necessity for Biden to run in 2016.)
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Old 11-16-2018, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by DSeid View Post
...

Why not Gillibrand? Too many potential D voters think of her as an inauthentic opportunist with no real convictions for her to win or be the best possible nominee. Why not Gillibrand? She does not inspire. Why not Gillibrand? Because we have several significantly better choices.
Who are the better candidate?
Who are these Dems that think she's an opportunist? And more importantly, how does she play to the independents? Can she swing states back that Trump won in 2016?

We don't need the best candidate to make core Democrats happy, we need the best candidate to win in 2020. Winning the rust belt back is really important. Winning indy votes is really important. The real question is, is she the one to do that? It isn't Warren that is for sure. Biden & Sanders are pretty damn old already.

Here are 11 other serious options as per the Washington Post:
California Sen. Kamala D. Harris, not bad but California is tough to overcome than NY.
New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker, he's my Senator, he isn't Obama, his track record is not strong, but maybe.
Connecticut Sen. Chris Murphy
Former Virginia governor Terry McAuliffe
Former Massachusetts governor Deval Patrick
Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown, interesting as he is in the Rust Belt.
New York Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, I can't seem to find anyone in the area that likes him. I don't think he's a strong candidate.
Former U.S. attorney general Eric Holder
New Orleans Mayor Mitch Landrieu, this is quite a stretch.
Oprah Winfrey, you know, she might just win, but would that be a good thing?
Montana Gov. Steve Bullock, an little known moderate Dem Governor of a red state. If he could get some name recognition, might be one of those candidates that could rally independents.
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