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Old 11-19-2018, 01:54 PM
Velocity Velocity is online now
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Is Trump going to be remembered more fondly decades after he leaves office?

It is generally the case that ex-Presidents are remembered more fondly as time goes on - Nixon's reputation is being rehabilitated by some, George W. Bush isn't vilified as much today as he was before (he is now seen as Nice Dubya Who Paints Paintings and Provides Cough Drops for Michelle Obama), hardly anyone gets worked up in a fervor over the Harding Teapot Dome scandal, etc. (Conversely, some previously highly-adulated presidents, like Kennedy or FDR, are seeing their reputations get a more severe work-over by some historians.)


So, 10-30 years from now, is Trump going to be viewed in fonder terms than he is today?

Might there someday be a president down the road who will make the American public sigh and say things like, "Say what you like about Trump, but at least he _______ ?"
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Old 11-19-2018, 01:59 PM
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Trump makes problematic Presidents of the past look better by comparison. I hate to entertain the idea that someone worse will come along and make us appreciate Trump. I prefer to assume we've hit an all time low, and we'll always remember the horror of this administration.
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Old 11-19-2018, 02:11 PM
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Unless the OP is envisioning an even worse President in our future to compare him to, then the answer is obviously no.
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Old 11-19-2018, 02:28 PM
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I have a feeling that it'll go like this:

0-10 years out: People will be relieved to no longer have to deal with him. Will not be remembered fondly.

5-40 years out: His legacy will diminish as more and more dirt comes to light about the inner workings of his administration. It'll look like even more of a clusterf**k than it already does.

40+: It'll be pretty much historical- he'll be remembered for having a chaotic and dysfunctional administration and for whatever historical legacy he leaves behind in terms of policy and actions.
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Old 11-19-2018, 02:32 PM
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No.
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Old 11-19-2018, 02:39 PM
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I have often wondered, if Trump was needed to make W look better, who will be needed for Trump to have a similar rehabilitation? Who, in other words, is Trump’s Trump?
Some KKK leader maybe?
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Old 11-19-2018, 02:49 PM
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"Say what you like about Trump, but at least he will provide fodder for SNL and late-night comedians for a long time." His presidency will eventually end, but mocking him and his administration and his allies and supporters is a gift that will keep on giving. Eventually, he will not have saner minds reeling-in his twitter storms - he'll take bait, and it will be just him.

Just think The Trump Presidential Library will be right there in NYC at Trump Tower! The heart of a democratic stronghold. He wont be forgotten, nor forgiven.

We also have this for a few generations: "Say what you like about [right or left politician]______, but at least s/he is not like Trump."
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Old 11-19-2018, 02:52 PM
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I have often wondered, if Trump was needed to make W look better, who will be needed for Trump to have a similar rehabilitation? Who, in other words, is Trumpís Trump?
Some KKK leader maybe?
Shrieking White-Hot Sphere Of Pure Rage
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Old 11-19-2018, 02:55 PM
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Nixon was on the path of that, until more tapes were released.

Not only that, but testimonials from people working for Nixon also makes him look more crooked than many imagined back then; and while he did good things, there were many others that left a bad legacy that we are still dealing with.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/erikshe...ers-continues/

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Dan Baum's mention of his interview with John Ehrlichman, counsel and Assistant to the President for Domestic Affairs under Nixon, in the latest issue of Harper's is one of those moments.

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The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what Iím saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.
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Old 11-19-2018, 02:59 PM
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Unless the OP is envisioning an even worse President in our future to compare him to, then the answer is obviously no.
I don't think it needs a president worse than Trump. People do not get worked up easily over something decades ago; their attention is fixated on more current and pressing issues. By the year 2040, people will be focused on the pros and cons of whoever the 48th (or whatever) President of the United States is doing by then. Even if there is enough dirt on Trump to fill an entire library's shelves, people simply won't be able to work up much outrage over Trump anymore, any more than the average American today spends time dwelling on the Vietnam War.
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Old 11-19-2018, 03:00 PM
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There were always people who thought Nixon got a raw deal. Charitably, he actually did do some decent, actual presidential, good for the whole country things. He wasn't just a grifter from day one.

For Trump, there are those that make us his "base" (fill in whatever words you want to characterize them) that appear to idolize him. No matter what comes out on him, no matter what the results will be, they will continue to idolize him. So, yes, he will be remembered fondly, by some at least.
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Old 11-19-2018, 03:31 PM
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No.
Pretty much this.
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Old 11-19-2018, 03:53 PM
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Short answer? No.

Long answer?
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. No.
  #14  
Old 11-19-2018, 04:02 PM
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I think he'll be remembered in a similar manner as George W. Bush. This is entirely anecdotal but it's difficult to find somebody who will admit to having wholeheartedly supported him, despite GWB having enjoyed a 90% approval rating after 9/11. Same as Nixon.
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Old 11-19-2018, 04:04 PM
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It's possible that Trump ends up being remembered only as a fucking moron as opposed to an evil fucking moron. So, perhaps.
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Old 11-19-2018, 04:24 PM
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Thinking about the smiling lizard-person Reagan still gives me the creeps, a full 30 years now since he last held office. I will be making fun of Trump and those who believe in him and his vision until I'm at my final rest.
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Old 11-19-2018, 04:39 PM
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I think the only "fondness" is a slight improvement is that once he is out of power, he will be seen more as a clueless, stumbling, but ultimately harmless, buffoon rather than clueless, stumbling, and dangerous, buffoon.
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Old 11-19-2018, 04:46 PM
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It is just possible that Trump may reform and become a great president.

I mean, he does so many chaotic things that....
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Old 11-19-2018, 07:10 PM
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A lot depends on how things go during his Presidency. If the economy is good and he doesn't get us into wars, he'll be remembered as an oddity but a harmless one. We've had a Donald Trump before: Andrew Jackson was quite trumpy, and actually a greater threat to democracy than Trump ever was, simply ignoring a Supreme Court ruling so that he could massacre Native Americans. And yet, Jackson's legacy has generally been considered positive if problematic.
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Old 11-19-2018, 07:12 PM
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I think the only "fondness" is a slight improvement is that once he is out of power, he will be seen more as a clueless, stumbling, but ultimately harmless, buffoon rather than clueless, stumbling, and dangerous, buffoon.
One thing that will make fondly remembering him a problem is that he's not going to be quiet and respectful towards his successors the way Presidents traditionally are. Jimmy Carter gets some criticism for pretty mild attacks on sitting Presidents. Trumps' going to be tweeting daily insults at his successors for as long as he lives. And his son will probably continue to do it for him after he dies.
  #21  
Old 11-19-2018, 07:22 PM
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He'd have to have some redeeming qualities, first.
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Old 11-19-2018, 07:24 PM
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He has two actually:

1) Doesn't really give a shit about anything, so he's not committed to messing things up. He seems to want the Presidency for bragging rights more than anything else.

2) He will sign Democratic legislation, which would give him accomplishments even Democrats would love.
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Old 11-19-2018, 10:06 PM
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I have often wondered, if Trump was needed to make W look better, who will be needed for Trump to have a similar rehabilitation? Who, in other words, is Trumpís Trump?
Some KKK leader maybe?
I'm predicting some militia klansman who promises to pardon anyone who commits murder against a liberal will be nominated in 2028. And we'll say 'maybe Trump wasn't so bad'.
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Old 11-19-2018, 10:43 PM
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I think he'll be remembered in a similar manner as George W. Bush.
I'm thinking more like Joe McCarthy.
  #25  
Old 11-20-2018, 12:17 AM
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Even if there is enough dirt on Trump to fill an entire library's shelves
We're rapidly heading there already, not to mention all the pro-Dumpster people.

There's going to be a lot of "De mortuis nil nisi bonum" when the time comes.
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:43 AM
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If the economic ducks line up and the US manages to avoid wars and recessions during his term(s) then history will judge him as an ineffective curiosity.

Though he might be in a select group of Presidents who achieved above average results through a total inability to get any of their election stump agenda implemented.
  #27  
Old 11-20-2018, 02:15 AM
Uosdwis R. Dewoh Uosdwis R. Dewoh is offline
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I don't think any president of this era will be remembered particularly fondly; not Bush, nor Obama, Trump, and whomever follows him. People, if there's any still around, will wonder is why all these leaders didn't try to mitigate global warming when they still had the chance. Maybe Trump will, deservedly, be the poster boy of climate change denialism, maybe not. I don't think they'll spend a lot of time debating the nuances of climate policies of current day leaders. They'll all seem equally ineffectual by most.
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Old 11-20-2018, 10:00 AM
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I think he'll be remembered in a similar manner as George W. Bush.
Thing is, Bush II has done a lot to rehabilitate his image, or at least done nothing to further tarnish it since he left office.

I have a suspicion that Dowager President Trump isn't going to quietly retire to his tower in Manhattan. He's likely to be a twitter maniac and just be a general pest to his successors and the political process in general until he dies.

That isn't going to win him a lot of historical warm fuzzies I suspect.
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Old 11-20-2018, 10:30 AM
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In the medium future, say 0-30 years, I think is legacy will get steadily worse as those who currently worship him die off. As time goes on his presidency will be viewed with more historic objectivity, he will be known for being a unifying presence akin to Joe McCarthy, having the honest integrity of Richard Nixon, and the competence and judgement of George Armstrong Custer.
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Old 11-20-2018, 10:53 AM
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Trump will easily go down as the 2nd worst president ever and will beat even Harding for the lowest spot if something comes of the Mueller investigation. The only reason he may not go down as the worst is because historians don't usually understand economics and will therefore give him credit for the economy.

Ultimately he will be significantly more villified than he is now because the destructive effects of his policies have yet to show themselves.

He'll have provided fiscal stimulus during the peak of an economic boom which caused the fed to have to raise rates faster due to misleading market feedback, which, along with nearly universally derided tariffs that were disproved in 1776, caused a serious recession that widened the already tax-break-widened deficit at the beginning of a long cycle of rising interest rates that created an untenable debt burden.

He'll be considered the spark and bellower-in-chief of the flames of racial nationalism resulting in god knows what.

I'll leave it to someone else to catalogue the voluminous excoriations he'll suffer from his environmental policies because I'm already too pissed to write any more.
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Old 11-20-2018, 11:07 AM
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Unlike, say, Millard Fillmore, people in the future will be able to watch actual video recordings of Trump being Trump. Barring some kind of linguistic degeneracy such as in Idiocracy, he is always going to sound like a complete idiot.
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  #32  
Old 11-20-2018, 11:33 AM
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I have a suspicion that Dowager President Trump isn't going to quietly retire to his tower in Manhattan. He's likely to be a twitter maniac and just be a general pest to his successors and the political process in general until he dies.
It'll be worse than that. He is addicted to the adoration of his supporters and Twitter won't be a big enough platform to get his narcissistic fix. There's gonna be a huge attention gap to fill moving from President to civilian. He'll combine his two biggest catapults to fame - right wing nationalism from his Presidential days and television from his Apprentice days. He'll start a right-wing media company, possibly a channel (TrumpTV) that will make Fox look like MSNBC.
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:11 PM
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It'll be worse than that. He is addicted to the adoration of his supporters and Twitter won't be a big enough platform to get his narcissistic fix. There's gonna be a huge attention gap to fill moving from President to civilian. He'll combine his two biggest catapults to fame - right wing nationalism from his Presidential days and television from his Apprentice days. He'll start a right-wing media company, possibly a channel (TrumpTV) that will make Fox look like MSNBC.
First, he'll spend a year or two in some country club federal prison, building his notoriety and priming the pump for his comeback. #notevenkidding
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Old 11-20-2018, 12:17 PM
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Once we get rid of Trump, we really should do an annual Guy Fawkes' Day-type celebration of having gotten rid of him, to memorialize his awfulness in perpetuity.
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:14 PM
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Unlike, say, Millard Fillmore, people in the future will be able to watch actual video recordings of Trump being Trump. Barring some kind of linguistic degeneracy such as in Idiocracy, he is always going to sound like a complete idiot.
That is not a good thing for the Trumpsters among us. "Grandpa, what the fuck were you thinking? This guy was barely able to put two cogent thoughts together."
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Old 11-20-2018, 01:26 PM
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That is not a good thing for the Trumpsters among us. "Grandpa, what the fuck were you thinking? This guy was barely able to put two cogent thoughts together."
"Well, you see, child, we were all taking a substance known as 'meth'..."
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  #37  
Old 11-20-2018, 01:56 PM
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I've wondered myself if we will end up looking back and thinking, "you know, after everything the results weren't all that bad". But ultimately I think no one will remember that the economy did moderately well at the beginning of his presidency, but anyone with internet access will be able to look back at his tweets and say "WTF!?".

His tweets will be there for all to see, and they will not age well.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:05 PM
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Once we get rid of Trump, we really should do an annual Guy Fawkes' Day-type celebration of having gotten rid of him, to memorialize his awfulness in perpetuity.
Hah! I'm imagining a Bonfire Night where everyone burns a giant pile of hairpieces.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:09 PM
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Only if we turn into a fascist state. Other than that, I think he'll be remembered as the worst president we've ever had.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:17 PM
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About as fondly as his fellow fascists Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco. Unless of course his attempt at ending democratic rule succeeds, in which case our grandchildren will think of him in similar ways as Mao and Ho Chi Minh are remembered in their countries.

If he is allowed to tweet from prison or outlives his sentence, he will still be a dangerous person. There are a significant number of people who would consider it an honor to lick his boots. He could conceivably give birth to an American fascist party that could lead to the end of western democracy. There are too many people who would gladly give up democracy as long as the right people are persecuted.

My most likely scenario is that he doesn't live past 2025. He is not a healthy man with healthy habits and despite what his lying doctor says, weighs a shit load more than 239 lbs. He will die in the next several years and be thought of worse as the years go on and his cult slowly dies off.
  #41  
Old 11-20-2018, 02:26 PM
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It is just possible that Trump may reform and become a great president.

I mean, he does so many chaotic things that....
A million monkeys have just delivered Hamlet.
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  #42  
Old 11-20-2018, 02:30 PM
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Thing is, Bush II has done a lot to rehabilitate his image, or at least done nothing to further tarnish it since he left office.


The thing with Bush II is, people forget that he was nominated as the bland, non-offensive Republican version of the bland, non-offensive Democrat Gore. It was the end of the 90s, we'd won the Cold War, and no one really wanted anything but a bland, care-taker government who just wouldn't upset the apple cart. There was so little to distinguish them that the election came down to a coin flip in Florida. Then 9/11 blew up in Bush's face, and he was in over his head.

But, despite his failings caused by being in over his head, he at least tried to do the right things. He failed, but not because he didn't try.

Trump isn't even trying to do the right thing. When he isn't completely indifferent to doing the right thing, he's actively hostile to it. That's fundamentally different from who and what Bush was.


As for how Trump will be remembered, well, people are still bad-mouthing a guy who hasn't even been King for over a thousand years.

Last edited by Horatius; 11-20-2018 at 02:30 PM.
  #43  
Old 11-20-2018, 02:35 PM
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He'll start a right-wing media company, possibly a channel (TrumpTV) that will make Fox look like MSNBC.
The story goes that his candidacy was really started as a negotiating ploy to get a better deal out of NBC. And then he started getting traction in the primaries, and the rest is history. Regarding TrumpTV, he was already ramping that up during his campaign, on the expectation that he wouldn't win. But then those damn voters, well, you know.

He even f*cks up winning the Presidency.
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  #44  
Old 11-20-2018, 02:38 PM
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Once we get rid of Trump, we really should do an annual Guy Fawkes' Day-type celebration of having gotten rid of him, to memorialize his awfulness in perpetuity.
Remember, Remember, the Russian November
Pumpkinhead Treason and Plot....
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  #45  
Old 11-20-2018, 02:41 PM
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Yes, because history is always less passionate than the present. When he's a name in a history book, he won't be hated, just discussed.

Unless we continue down this path and American democracy dies sometime within the next few decades, in which case, well, it depends on who's in charge of the history books.
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:42 PM
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Let's please not debase the good name of Lance Henriksen by calling Trump "Pumpkinhead."
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Old 11-20-2018, 02:50 PM
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Yes, because history is always less passionate than the present. When he's a name in a history book, he won't be hated, just discussed.

Unless we continue down this path and American democracy dies sometime within the next few decades, in which case, well, it depends on who's in charge of the history books.
There are entire generations of Americans who will grow up with no firsthand experience of the Trump presidency. Sure, their parents may tell them Trump was bad, but that would be like today's generation hearing that Nixon was bad. Nowhere near the same impact.
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:24 PM
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There are entire generations of Americans who will grow up with no firsthand experience of the Trump presidency. Sure, their parents may tell them Trump was bad, but that would be like today's generation hearing that Nixon was bad. Nowhere near the same impact.


That's assuming the US government structure survives Trump. With Nixon, the checks and balances mostly worked the way they were supposed to. Everyone breathed a sigh of relief once Nixon was out, and then got back to business as usual.

But with the Republicans refusing to even consider doing even the slightest bit to check or balance Trump, it's not clear that these structures will remain intact, or effective, after Trump is finally out of office. After 8 years of Trump running roughshod over every norm, even the Democrats might be disinclined to a return to normal. Why would they ever again trust a Republican Congress that let Trump get away with everything?
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:25 PM
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There are entire generations of Americans who will grow up with no firsthand experience of the Trump presidency. Sure, their parents may tell them Trump was bad, but that would be like today's generation hearing that Nixon was bad. Nowhere near the same impact.
Nowhere near the same level of "bad."
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Old 11-20-2018, 03:29 PM
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About as fondly as his fellow fascists Hitler, Mussolini, and Franco. Unless of course his attempt at ending democratic rule succeeds, in which case our grandchildren will think of him in similar ways as Mao and Ho Chi Minh are remembered in their countries.
I'm still not convinced he's a fascist. Not that he doesn't do a bunch of fascist things, but they strike me more as the product of a petulant, entitled and privileged old man who doesn't like the restrictions put on him by the press, Congress, the Judicial branch, etc... rather than the product of a coherent political philosophy and plan.

I know that if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, but he seems too scattered and random to be a deliberate fascist.
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