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Old 12-05-2018, 12:07 AM
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manson1972 manson1972 is offline
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Warning in Positive Gun News

Here's the link

Is there some "Positive" standard that we have to go by to post in the "Positive Gun News" thread? Who's judgement should we use to determine if a story is a "Positive Gun News" story? Is there someone we should run our links by to make sure they meet the criteria of "Positive Gun News" before we post them?
  #2  
Old 12-05-2018, 12:12 AM
andros andros is offline
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What's your plan here? Cos I'm not seeing one.
  #3  
Old 12-05-2018, 12:16 AM
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I don't have a plan. Why would you think so?
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by engineer_comp_geek View Post
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I'm not sure if you are trolling or just being sarcastic and threadshitting. Either way, your post is the exact opposite of positive gun news, so let's just call this an official warning for being a jerk.

The topic of this thread is positive gun news. Many of your recent posts are not on-topic for this thread. If you don't like this thread's topic, go elsewhere. There are plenty of anti-gun threads on the SDMB.

Do not post sarcastic comments and do not threadshit or in any other way attempt to derail the topic of this thread.
Seems like engineer_comp_geek was pretty clear about the reason for the warning. And it sure looks like blatant trolling to me.
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
Is there some "Positive" standard that we have to go by to post in the "Positive Gun News" thread? Who's judgement should we use to determine if a story is a "Positive Gun News" story? Is there someone we should run our links by to make sure they meet the criteria of "Positive Gun News" before we post them?
Common sense would be the most basic guide. And I doubt that anyone would agree that that story represents "positive gun news."
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:19 AM
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But it's not trolling. I think it's Positive Gun News. That's why I posted in Positive Gun News.
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:24 AM
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But it's not trolling. I think it's Positive Gun News. That's why I posted in Positive Gun News.
If you seriously think that is positive gun news, then I would advise you not to return to that thread.
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
But it's not trolling. I think it's Positive Gun News. That's why I posted in Positive Gun News.
Y'know, when you're told something is trolling, it would be better not to start a thread in ATMB to troll some more. This is extremely poor judgement on your part.

Last edited by Colibri; 12-05-2018 at 12:29 AM.
  #9  
Old 12-05-2018, 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted by engineer_comp_geek View Post
If you seriously think that is positive gun news, then I would advise you not to return to that thread.
That's fine, I won't. But it looks like we can't use our own judgement to determine "Positive Gun News". I guess only "Gun News" that is deemed by the moderators to be "Positive" can be posted there. "Positive" is a subjective term that can mean a lot of things to a lot of different people. I suggest you take that into account when giving out warnings in the future.
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:35 AM
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Y'know, when you're told something is trolling, it would be better not to start a thread in ATMB to troll some more. This is extremely poor judgement on your part.
It would be, I agree, if that was what I was doing. But I'm not. Plus, I don't see any posts where somebody told me I was trolling.
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:35 AM
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That's fine, I won't. But it looks like we can't use our own judgement to determine "Positive Gun News". I guess only "Gun News" that is deemed by the moderators to be "Positive" can be posted there. "Positive" is a subjective term that can mean a lot of things to a lot of different people. I suggest you take that into account when giving out warnings in the future.
This isn't just the moderator's individual opinion. I'm pretty sure the general consensus would be that the incident you described was not positive.
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:42 AM
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It would be, I agree, if that was what I was doing. But I'm not. Plus, I don't see any posts where somebody told me I was trolling.
engineer told you he thought you might be trolling. I'm telling your right now what you did in that thread was trolling, and I think you're continuing to troll now. And our judgement is what counts in this matter.
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:43 AM
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that's fine, i won't. But it looks like we can't use our own judgement to determine "positive gun news". I guess only "gun news" that is deemed by the moderators to be "positive" can be posted there. "positive" is a subjective term that can mean a lot of things to a lot of different people. I suggest you take that into account when giving out warnings in the future.
iswydt
  #14  
Old 12-05-2018, 12:45 AM
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This isn't just the moderator's individual opinion. I'm pretty sure the general consensus would be that the incident you described was not positive.
Ok, that's fine. To whom should I submit my links to in order to determine if it is a "Positive" gun story, so I can be sure that I don't get a warning in the future?
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:48 AM
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I am not going to defend the OP here.

That said, that thread has always kind of made me sad. None of it is positive in a real emotional sense, it's only positive in a rather crass political ammunition sense. If I have to shoot some crazy crackhead who's breaking into my house, that's not a good thing. It's an ugly thing. The only thing good is that it lets people show our society is so scary we need guns. I'm not even arguing that's not true -- I'm just saying it's a little gross to call that positive news.

Last edited by CarnalK; 12-05-2018 at 12:50 AM.
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:49 AM
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Ok, that's fine. To whom should I submit my links to in order to determine if it is a "Positive" gun story, so I can be sure that I don't get a warning in the future?
Probably best if you just don't post in that thread again.
  #17  
Old 12-05-2018, 12:56 AM
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Probably best if you just don't post in that thread again.
Well, I have agreed to not post in that thread again. But it would be nice to know who I should ask if a story is a "Positive Gun Story". There might be a story in the future that is SO positive that I would be remiss if I didn't post it. But if I had someone that could judge that story, and determine if it was "Positive" or not, then I could still contribute to this board.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:00 AM
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The obvious "rule" for the thread is good/innocents shoot the bad/guilty stories. Just stop.

Last edited by CarnalK; 12-05-2018 at 01:02 AM.
  #19  
Old 12-05-2018, 01:06 AM
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The obvious "rule" for the thread is good/innocents shoot the bad/guilty stories. Just stop.
Ok. So the good cops shot a bad guy who didn't listen to their commands. That belongs in the thread, right?
  #20  
Old 12-05-2018, 01:20 AM
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I find your mock confusion uninspiring so I'll leave you to other people's responses.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:23 AM
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I find your definitions for "good/innocents" and "bad/guilty" to be lacking. But thanks for sharing!
  #22  
Old 12-05-2018, 01:51 AM
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Ok. So the good cops shot a bad guy who didn't listen to their commands. That belongs in the thread, right?
No, the cop shot a good guy (the homeowner defending his grandson from the intruder) who didn't listen to his commands. What's positive about that?
  #23  
Old 12-05-2018, 02:23 AM
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Ok, that's fine. To whom should I submit my links to in order to determine if it is a "Positive" gun story, so I can be sure that I don't get a warning in the future?
While you certainly seem capable of exercising poor judgement, I don't believe for a second that you are that stupid.

This is a friendly reminder that trolling is an insta-ban offense.

Also, consider yourself permanently banned from the Positive Gun News of the Day thread.

If you come across a story that is SO positive that you would be remiss if you didn't post it, you'll just have to keep it to yourself now.
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Old 12-05-2018, 08:44 AM
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I am not going to defend the OP here.

That said, that thread has always kind of made me sad. None of it is positive in a real emotional sense, it's only positive in a rather crass political ammunition sense. If I have to shoot some crazy crackhead who's breaking into my house, that's not a good thing. It's an ugly thing. The only thing good is that it lets people show our society is so scary we need guns. I'm not even arguing that's not true -- I'm just saying it's a little gross to call that positive news.
I think the explaination in the OP of that thread is pretty clear. It was made to give a different point of view than the Pit thread that has 171 pages. That thread is called “Stupid gun news of the day.” Positive might not be the best term but it’s better than “Smart news.”

I do remember at the time in gun control threads there were often posts like “Name one time a gun would have made a difference.” It’s easier for posters to point to this thread than have to research every instance of self defense. Regardless of how you feel about the subject those that want to report instances of self defense should not be hijacked and shouted down any more than any other subject.

There are multiple instances of moderator instruction in that thread. We tend to be a little more lenient in long threads because posters could miss previous posts. More lenient does not mean we will forget the previous instructions. No one should assume they will get away with ignoring moderator instructions just because it’s a long thread.
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Old 12-05-2018, 09:13 AM
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Why don't we have an entire forum for bolstering ignorance on topics by only allowing one (dubious) side? Imagine the possibilities. We can have threads that only permit "news" that says the environment is fine, that racism doesn't exist, or that the holocaust never happened. And we can umbrella them as "positive" news, telling people there's nothing to worry about.
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Old 12-05-2018, 09:41 AM
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But it's not trolling. I think it's Positive Gun News. That's why I posted in Positive Gun News.
You couldn't be more wrong in considering it positive news on the latter part.

So an elderly 73 year old man who probably is severely hearing impaired according to family members does a good deed by protecting his 11 year old grandson, probably saving his life, by shooting a naked intruder in his own home who had his grandson in a choke hold, biting his ear.

You think it's okay and positive news too, that he gets shot by the cops for probably not hearing the cops commands, nor did they identify themselves as cops. Nor did the elderly man point the gun at the cops, it's pointed straight down to the floor, he shined his flashlight at them to see who it is. The cop called this advancing towards them. Sigh. Look at the video. So maybe one step with plenty of distance, don't even think he made it to the living room, the cops were well outside the house, and there is enough lighting to see the elderly man had the gun clearly pointing down and it's very clear he's just raising his flashlight.

It was a terrible judgment call on the cops behalf.

But still this part is also "positive guns news" according to you. What's wrong with you?

Last edited by Razncain; 12-05-2018 at 09:44 AM.
  #27  
Old 12-05-2018, 10:05 AM
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Clearly the OPs post in the positive gun news thread was inappropriate, but it does bring up a question.

Say that my state totally banned private ownership of guns
In all seriousness, I'd consider that the best news since we won World War 2. Now, I would probably make my own thread that situation, but would the below be banned in the Positive Gun News thread:

Quote:
California instituted a total ban on private firearm ownership today! Fantastic news if you ask me, we should see a lot fewer needless deaths now.
  #28  
Old 12-05-2018, 10:10 AM
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Would a thread titled "Negative Gun News" be allowed in MPSIMS, and would it receive the same level of protection?
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Old 12-05-2018, 10:16 AM
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I think the explaination in the OP of that thread is pretty clear. It was made to give a different point of view than the Pit thread that has 171 pages. That thread is called “Stupid gun news of the day.” Positive might not be the best term but it’s better than “Smart news.”

I do remember at the time in gun control threads there were often posts like “Name one time a gun would have made a difference.” It’s easier for posters to point to this thread than have to research every instance of self defense. Regardless of how you feel about the subject those that want to report instances of self defense should not be hijacked and shouted down any more than any other subject.
Just like I said, the stories are only "positive" as useful political ammo. I believe the term 2nd amendment boosters use is "defensive gun uses", which would have been a more descriptive title, less prone to the "misunderstanding" we see here.

Last edited by CarnalK; 12-05-2018 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 12-05-2018, 10:23 AM
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Also, let me just point out that what happened to this guy is no more of a tragedy than what happened to, say, Trayvon Martin. And yet, there are lots of posts by the usual suspects on this board praising Zimmerman for his excellent self defense. Perhaps the OP was arguing in bad faith, but if he was, his bad faith position is no more despicable than the position taken by many on this board wholeheartedly. So why should he be censured?
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Old 12-05-2018, 10:27 AM
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But still this part is also "positive guns news" according to you. What's wrong with you?
I read it as an veiled attempt, wrapped into a joke, about how killing a gun owner is positive news, and that appears to be how the mods (and other members) saw it as well. I don't follow that thread, but one of the mods mentioned it wasn't the first time manson's posts seemed trollish in that thread.

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Would a thread titled "Negative Gun News" be allowed in MPSIMS, and would it receive the same level of protection?
Why wouldn't it?
  #32  
Old 12-05-2018, 10:32 AM
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Well, I have a suspicion that a "negative gun news of the day" would get shuttled to another forum because of anticipated heated reactions. I could be wrong.
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Old 12-05-2018, 10:54 AM
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You yourself admit, in that thread, that you don't consider it positive.
  #34  
Old 12-05-2018, 10:56 AM
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That's fine, I won't. But it looks like we can't use our own judgement to determine "Positive Gun News".
You could maybe but ------- read the thread. And especially the posts the Mods made during it. Seriously, in light of all that I would have possibly posted the story or link but without comment. And even that could have been nudging it a bit since it almost begs for replies that could derail the thread. Sorry, I gotta agree with the Mods on this one.
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Old 12-05-2018, 10:59 AM
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This is something that comes up not just on guns but also on various other subjects on this board (no different than other online venues), the matter of whether point/counterpoint or "but whatabout" must appear in every single thread it can. Even when there already exists a thread for the other side.


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Well, I have a suspicion that a "negative gun news of the day" would get shuttled to another forum because of anticipated heated reactions. I could be wrong.
Well, since the "Stupid gun news" thread either started or wound up in the Pit as it is, I have to say you're most likely right on this account.

Last edited by JRDelirious; 12-05-2018 at 11:00 AM.
  #36  
Old 12-05-2018, 11:00 AM
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Well, I have a suspicion that a "negative gun news of the day" would get shuttled to another forum because of anticipated heated reactions. I could be wrong.
Like this?
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Old 12-05-2018, 11:03 AM
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Would a thread titled "Negative Gun News" be allowed in MPSIMS, and would it receive the same level of protection?
I think there are a variety of threads that fit that description and they get posted in nearly every forum without being closed. So, yes would be the answer to your question, although I am not sure what you mean by "the same level of protection." Is kicking someone out of the thread for trolling "protection"? If so then in my opinion the mods do a pretty good job of protecting the whole board in that way.
  #38  
Old 12-05-2018, 11:23 AM
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No. That's not about guns, though gun deaths are a big part of it. If you look, the OP is recording mass deaths "by any criminal means" and within the first 20 posts there is one example of beating deaths and one of vehicular homicide.
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:05 PM
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No. That's not about guns, though gun deaths are a big part of it. If you look, the OP is recording mass deaths "by any criminal means" and within the first 20 posts there is one example of beating deaths and one of vehicular homicide.
No, it's not exactly the same, but it's very similar to "negative gun news" and it has not been shuffled off to another forum.
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Old 12-05-2018, 12:34 PM
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There's a real problem with the attempt to define who is a Good Guy and who is a Bad Guy, isn't there? Maybe that distinction is artificial, inconsistent with the real facts of many cases, and needs to be explored if ignorance is to be fought. Refusing to allow examination of such a basic point in a thread is one approach to preventing such examination and discussion, sure, but it hardly seems within the ignorance-fighting charter of this board to let self-proclaimed Good Guys define cases into something that can be called Positive without being challenged on it.

That said, the thread in question had fallen dormant for lack of examples to support its thesis. Maybe it should have been left to die.
  #41  
Old 12-05-2018, 12:35 PM
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No, it's not exactly the same, but it's very similar to "negative gun news" and it has not been shuffled off to another forum.
It is distinctly different in a crucial way. There isn't an intense national political debate on banning mass killings. Bone's OP rather unashamedly asks for ammo for one side of a heated political debate on guns. Paul in Qatar's does not. In fact, in post #7 he explicitly says "This list does not address mass shootings".

Frankly, a thread gathering ammo for a political debate under the MPSIMS politeness shield is kinda bullshit.

Last edited by CarnalK; 12-05-2018 at 12:36 PM.
  #42  
Old 12-05-2018, 12:52 PM
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There's a real problem with the attempt to define who is a Good Guy and who is a Bad Guy, isn't there? Maybe that distinction is artificial, inconsistent with the real facts of many cases, and needs to be explored if ignorance is to be fought. Refusing to allow examination of such a basic point in a thread is one approach to preventing such examination and discussion, sure, but it hardly seems within the ignorance-fighting charter of this board to let self-proclaimed Good Guys define cases into something that can be called Positive without being challenged on it.

That said, the thread in question had fallen dormant for lack of examples to support its thesis. Maybe it should have been left to die.
There are plenty of examples in that thread where there is discussion whether an example that is cited is actually “positive.” Those posts have not been moderated. A wider debate about gun control would not be allowed because it’s not in GD and would be considered a hijack. Discussions within the scope of the thread are fine. Hijacking it is not.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:13 PM
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Loach -- could you weigh in on my example? If I post to that thread celebrating "common sense gun control reform" passing in a certain state, or even celebrating a total ban on guns in a state, as "positive gun news" - would that be allowed?
  #44  
Old 12-05-2018, 01:27 PM
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Loach -- could you weigh in on my example? If I post to that thread celebrating "common sense gun control reform" passing in a certain state, or even celebrating a total ban on guns in a state, as "positive gun news" - would that be allowed?
There are examples of what Loach is talking about, disagreeing with the "positiveness" of news items, immediately in the thread. What you are asking about is explicitly what he said is verboten: starting a gun legislation debate.

Last edited by CarnalK; 12-05-2018 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 12-05-2018, 01:47 PM
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There are examples of what Loach is talking about, disagreeing with the "positiveness" of news items, immediately in the thread. What you are asking about is explicitly what he said is verboten: starting a gun legislation debate.
In that case, I would agree with some of the other posters here and humbly suggesst that the title of the thread IS misleading, but not in the way that the OP implies. The thread is not looking for "positive gun news", it's looking for stories about guns being used in self defense. Which, as some in this thread have argued, isn't necessarily positive.
  #46  
Old 12-05-2018, 01:52 PM
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Yeah, I'm the one who argued that. Lol.
  #47  
Old 12-05-2018, 02:00 PM
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Ok, that's fine. To whom should I submit my links to in order to determine if it is a "Positive" gun story, so I can be sure that I don't get a warning in the future?
If you are sincerely unable to figure this out on your own, I'd advise you to follow engineer_comp_geek's advice and not post at all in the thread.
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Old 12-05-2018, 02:02 PM
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Clearly the OPs post in the positive gun news thread was inappropriate, but it does bring up a question.

Say that my state totally banned private ownership of guns
In all seriousness, I'd consider that the best news since we won World War 2. Now, I would probably make my own thread that situation, but would the below be banned in the Positive Gun News thread:
I think in this case, we can interpret "positive gun news" to mean "pro-gun news".
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Old 12-05-2018, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Babale View Post
In that case, I would agree with some of the other posters here and humbly suggesst that the title of the thread IS misleading, but not in the way that the OP implies. The thread is not looking for "positive gun news", it's looking for stories about guns being used in self defense. Which, as some in this thread have argued, isn't necessarily positive.
I like to think that I can treat posters like responsible adults. The thread is over three years old with over 1500 posts. Pretty much everyone is having no difficulty understanding what the thread is about with the current title. The OP can’t pretend he doesn’t understand either given the fact that he’s participated pretty much from the beginning and has been mod noted in it at least once.

And I disagree that the thread is only about self defense. Read post #1. The OP brings up two different issues. One is not about self defense use of a firearm. Granted it’s to be expected that most news items will involve self defense but that is not all the thread is about.

Last edited by Loach; 12-05-2018 at 02:11 PM.
  #50  
Old 12-05-2018, 02:13 PM
Babale Babale is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Nemo View Post
I think in this case, we can interpret "positive gun news" to mean "pro-gun news".
Clearly. I don't like that, because it unfairly (IMHO) grants legitimacy to one side of the argument. But I can live with it.
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