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Old 12-12-2018, 10:44 PM
HoneyBadgerDC HoneyBadgerDC is offline
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Transexual Children

Not positive I am using the right term. Children who identify as the opposite sex.

I realize many children are just born this way but I wonder if a significant percentage of these children are influenced by other biological factors. I know with animals it is very important for them to play animals games children do the same thing when given the opportunity. Has modern society changed the way humans stimulate hormones in our childhood?
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:29 AM
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Not positive I am using the right term. Children who identify as the opposite sex.

I realize many children are just born this way but I wonder if a significant percentage of these children are influenced by other biological factors. I know with animals it is very important for them to play animals games children do the same thing when given the opportunity. Has modern society changed the way humans stimulate hormones in our childhood?
I think transgender is probably the more accurate term?

I would not discount changes in hormone stimulation changing the expression of transgender identity, given what we are now learning about the myriad ways modern chemicals affect us and the expression of our genes. However, I think this tendency has always existed, and it's possible that it is just more accepted now; there are examples littered throughout history, such as one colonial governor of New York (though of course it's controversial):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward...Cross-dressing

If you want a couple anecdotal examples, my daughter attends a Catholic girls' school. This year has seen the transition of a high school freshman and a sixth grader. Despite now identifying as male, they will be allowed to continue attending.
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:55 AM
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I know with animals it is very important for them to play animals games children do the same thing when given the opportunity.
This is about clear as mud, can you explain more?

Are you attempting to imply that girls playing football and boys playing with dolls is causing more trans children? That’s what it sounds like.
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:29 AM
HoneyBadgerDC HoneyBadgerDC is offline
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This is about clear as mud, can you explain more?

Are you attempting to imply that girls playing football and boys playing with dolls is causing more trans children? That’s what it sounds like.
I don't really know exactly what I am implying beyond the idea that children's play and interaction patterns have changed significantly. Another issue is passive bullying, in other words a child might feel defeated before he ever has a chance to really start interacting. These is pretty solid evidence that hormones are affected by our position in a group or society. I really don't know what is having the most dramatic effect but I do have a feeling that something has changed that is affecting children's hormonal balance.

I realize a lot more children and parents have opened up to the idea of transgender but it also seems to be a lot more common today than it was decades earlier.
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:41 AM
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Puberty is very much a time of hormonal change, to say the least.
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Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerDC
I realize a lot more children and parents have opened up to the idea of transgender but it also seems to be a lot more common today than it was decades earlier.
The idea of fluid or changeable gender is certainly more common than it used to be. Whether or not it is actually changing the number of transgender people is not clear.
Quote:
The phenomenon of transgender children "growing out of" their transgender identity by the time they are adolescents or adults is called “desistance” by gender researchers. For decades, follow-up studies of transgender kids have shown that a substantial majority -- anywhere from 65 to 94 percent -- eventually ceased to identify as transgender. (Brooks, 5/23)
Cite. So they might be more open to the idea, but not necessarily transgender.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:08 AM
HoneyBadgerDC HoneyBadgerDC is offline
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Puberty is very much a time of hormonal change, to say the least. The idea of fluid or changeable gender is certainly more common than it used to be. Whether or not it is actually changing the number of transgender people is not clear.
Cite. So they might be more open to the idea, but not necessarily transgender.

Regards,
Shodan
Thanks for posting that, it confirms my suspicions. My biggest concern has been are some parents jumping on this bandwagon too early to get some kind of special identity for themselves as a parent of a transgender, it sure appears this way.
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:24 AM
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Why do people have to be so obsessed with genders, orientations, racism and things like that? Are there really no better topics we could talk about?

Last edited by JakeRS; 12-13-2018 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 12-13-2018, 09:43 AM
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Why do people have to be so obsessed with genders, orientations, racism and things like that? Are there really no better topics we could talk about?
Like what? The resurgence of feminism?

Right now at this moment in history these things are in the forefront of cultural change.
The reason is emphatically NOT that cisgender white males are suddenly interested in changing their views, or indeed in thinking about any of these at all. It's for another reason, and I am going to allow you to think about what that reason is.

Last edited by Ulfreida; 12-13-2018 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:10 AM
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Thanks for posting that, it confirms my suspicions. My biggest concern has been are some parents jumping on this bandwagon too early to get some kind of special identity for themselves as a parent of a transgender, it sure appears this way.
Why is it a concern that people are more open to the idea? The major negative impact from being transgender seems to be people's reactions to it. A reduction in negative reactions is surely a positive.

Yes, some kids may explore the idea before changing their minds, who would not have done so when even considering the possibility was more stigmatised, but why is that a concern? Where is the actual harm? Do you have any evidence that parents are pushing their kids into a trans identity, or is this actually parents listening to their kids more and kids thereby feeling safer exploring their own identity?
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:24 AM
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Why do people have to be so obsessed with genders, orientations, racism and things like that? Are there really no better topics we could talk about?
Something in those topics make you uncomfortable?
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:29 AM
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Why is it a concern that people are more open to the idea? The major negative impact from being transgender seems to be people's reactions to it. A reduction in negative reactions is surely a positive.

Yes, some kids may explore the idea before changing their minds, who would not have done so when even considering the possibility was more stigmatised, but why is that a concern? Where is the actual harm? Do you have any evidence that parents are pushing their kids into a trans identity, or is this actually parents listening to their kids more and kids thereby feeling safer exploring their own identity?
I think the concern is that parents may either push, or allow, children who decide they are transgender to take steps with long-term consequences, like puberty blockers or whatever.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:48 AM
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I think the concern is that parents may either push, or allow, children who decide they are transgender to take steps with long-term consequences, like puberty blockers or whatever.
Do any of these concerns come from those who aren't already opposed to the idea of transgendered children?
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:24 AM
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My biggest concern has been are some parents jumping on this bandwagon too early to get some kind of special identity for themselves as a parent of a transgender, it sure appears this way.
Can you explain why this is a concern to you? (Do you really think "parent of a transgender child" is a goal for parents?)

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I think the concern is that parents may either push, or allow, children who decide they are transgender to take steps with long-term consequences, like puberty blockers or whatever.
This shows a lack of understanding of what happens when a child expresses gender dysphoria. There is a long process of therapy and medical evaluation before any steps are taken. Medical professionals and parents fully realize that kids and teens can make spontaneous, poorly thought out decisions, and there are a *lot* of safeguards to manage this.
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Old 12-13-2018, 11:55 AM
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Do any of these concerns come from those who aren't already opposed to the idea of transgendered children?
I doubt that a parent who would allow their child to take puberty blockers, or a clinician who would even consider them, is opposed to the idea of transgendered children, although I have no hard figures.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:04 PM
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I doubt that a parent who would allow their child to take puberty blockers, or a clinician who would even consider them, is opposed to the idea of transgendered children, although I have no hard figures.

Regards,
Shodan
Way to not answer a question.
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:04 PM
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What long-term consequences are caused by puberty blockers? How do they compare to the long-term consequences of not taking them and going through puberty as a sex that does not correlate to the person's gender?

The whole purpose of taking puberty blockers is to reduce long-term consequences like reassignment surgeries, and to allow kids more time to make a real choice. Removing that option is forcing them to go through something that is not fully reversible. And no-one is forcing their kids to take them. C'mon.
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Old 12-13-2018, 12:12 PM
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The Atlantic recently published an interesting article about transgender children.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...-trans/561749/

It draws no conclusions but it does discuss the fluidity of gender identity in young people, some of the nuances and pros/cons of the affirming care approach, and some of the controversy around desistance.
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Old 12-13-2018, 01:36 PM
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Way to not answer a question.
You asked for who might be concerned who wasn't already opposed to the idea of transgender children, and I gave you some examples. :shrugs:
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Originally Posted by Filbert
What long-term consequences are caused by puberty blockers? How do they compare to the long-term consequences of not taking them and going through puberty as a sex that does not correlate to the person's gender?
Puberty blockers haven't been used for long enough to know the long-term effects. Using them to treat transgender children is considered an off-label use, and not approved as such by the FDA.

To be fair, we also don't know the long-term effects if they are used on the large majority of children who change their mind about being transgender. So it is hard to know which approach would be erring on the side of caution.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 12-13-2018, 01:49 PM
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Writer, researcher, and trans activist Julia Serrano on the concept of detransitioning, medical treatment for children with non-standard gender identities, and some of the problems with "what if the kid isn't really trans?" think pieces like the Atlantic article Motorgirl linked to.

Speaking of, here's her blog post on her interactions with the author of that Atlantic piece, Jesse Singal.
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Old 12-13-2018, 01:50 PM
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Why do people have to be so obsessed with genders, orientations, racism and things like that? Are there really no better topics we could talk about?
You aren't being forced to participate. You are, however, required to not derail the discussion.

You are instructed not to return to this thread.
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Old 12-13-2018, 02:02 PM
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Speaking of, here's her blog post on her interactions with the author of that Atlantic piece, Jesse Singal.
It looks like a certain Atlantic writer has a definite agenda.
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Old 12-13-2018, 03:32 PM
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Writer, researcher, and trans activist Julia Serrano on the concept of detransitioning, medical treatment for children with non-standard gender identities, and some of the problems with "what if the kid isn't really trans?" think pieces like the Atlantic article Motorgirl linked to.
In a way it's unfortunate that essay is so long, because it cuts down the number of people who will read it to the end. But it's really worth reading completely. Thanks for posting it.

And I hesitate to bring it up, because it's a small part of what's wrong with Singal's piece linked above. But so many of these articles with cautionary tales about people who decided not to transition "at the last minute" try to raise this is an example of the problem, when it's another example of the system working correctly. Despite the mom's fears, the girl in the article was not going to be put on hormone therapy immediately whether the mom pushed for it or not - she had not been identifying as male consistently, persistently, and insistently. The girl had questions, pursued therapy and medical evaluation, and changed her mind. I ask again, why is this a "concern" for you (OP, not Miller)?
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Old 12-13-2018, 03:38 PM
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As a parent of a transgender child (now a young adult) who knows many parents of transgender children, I can say with some assurance that parents aren't rushing to identify their children as transgender, unless their children are very clearly transgender.

It's not like there are door prizes involved.
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:00 PM
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Can you explain why this is a concern to you? (Do you really think "parent of a transgender child" is a goal for parents?)



This shows a lack of understanding of what happens when a child expresses gender dysphoria. There is a long process of therapy and medical evaluation before any steps are taken. Medical professionals and parents fully realize that kids and teens can make spontaneous, poorly thought out decisions, and there are a *lot* of safeguards to manage this.

Yes, I actually do believe that some parents are jumping on the bandwagon because it makes them feel cool.
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:11 PM
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Yes, I actually do believe that some parents are jumping on the bandwagon because it makes them feel cool.
Do you have any evidence of this? Do you know any parents of transgender children? Do you know any transgender individuals?

Trust me, having a transgender child doesn't make a parent feel cool. It makes a parent terrified much of the time--for the child's safety, for the child's well-being, for the child's happiness. My daughter's life is very difficult because she's trans, even with a supportive family and community. And you think this makes me feel cool?
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:16 PM
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Yes, I actually do believe that some parents are jumping on the bandwagon because it makes them feel cool.
How do you feel about transgender children in general?
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:36 PM
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You asked for who might be concerned who wasn't already opposed to the idea of transgender children, and I gave you some examples. :shrugs:
Puberty blockers haven't been used for long enough to know the long-term effects. Using them to treat transgender children is considered an off-label use, and not approved as such by the FDA.
Actually, those drugs have been used to treat precocious puberty and certain cancers for a few decades now. There are known side effects, including long term ones. As with all medical treatments the risks and benefits have to be weighed. The notion they're some sort of new, experimental, never before seen pharmaceutical is, frankly, ludicrous
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Old 12-13-2018, 05:41 PM
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Actually, those drugs have been used to treat precocious puberty and certain cancers for a few decades now. There are known side effects, including long term ones. As with all medical treatments the risks and benefits have to be weighed. The notion they're some sort of new, experimental, never before seen pharmaceutical is, frankly, ludicrous
One of their side effects is that they make suicide a bit less likely.
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:27 PM
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Yes, I actually do believe that some parents are jumping on the bandwagon because it makes them feel cool.
I couldn't imagine anyone doing something like this, unless they're the type who wants to get a reality show out of the whole thing.

(We're having an extensive discussion about this on another website, about Jazz and some other well-known trans teens.)

Have I ever known any transgendered individuals, or their family members? Yes, I have, although not well; here goes.

One of my high school classmates was on a Discovery Health Channel program in the early 00s called "Changing Sexes." He was on the f-to-m program, and when he held up his HS graduation picture, I nearly fell off the couch. I had NO IDEA that this cute girl who always had perfect clothes, hair, and makeup was fighting such a secret battle; at the time the show aired, he was recovering from surgery to make a penis he could urinate through, something he felt he needed to really be as complete a man as medical science could do, both then and now. He said the operation took 12 hours (it involved taking skin from his forearm and grafting it into the correct area) and he felt like he'd been hit by a truck when he woke up. However, the grafts took and he waved his hand in front of his body and said, "Everything's now in harmony." I hope he continues to do well.

I also have an acquaintance whose young-adult chromosomal son, who also has Asperger's, has announced that he wants to live as a woman, and was told that after he made this announcement, his mood and behavior improved dramatically. S/he does have wonderful family support, and has even found an SO of sorts in an online forum. I have never met her child (they're divorced and he lives with his father in another city) but she says she didn't know her child was capable of being so happy. AFAIK, s/he has had no hormone or surgical therapy, but has taken a female name and wears women's clothing.

I believe that a lot of the "increase" is nothing more than people being able to verbalize how they're feeling, know that other people out there are like them, and can do something about it.

Last edited by nearwildheaven; 12-13-2018 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:31 PM
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Actually, those drugs have been used to treat precocious puberty and certain cancers for a few decades now. There are known side effects, including long term ones. As with all medical treatments the risks and benefits have to be weighed. The notion they're some sort of new, experimental, never before seen pharmaceutical is, frankly, ludicrous
I get a monthly injection of one of these, to send me into permanent menopause following my breast cancer diagnosis last year. While I have had no issues with it other than perpetual bruises in my lower abdomen, they do cause terrible side effects in some people, like hot flashes, mood swings, and osteoporosis.

Many years ago, one of my cousins (whom I met once, before this happened) had to take hormone blockers for precocious puberty. She was 6 years old and growing hair in places where it doesn't belong in 6-year-olds, and was on this therapy for several years.
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:32 PM
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Yes, I actually do believe that some parents are jumping on the bandwagon because it makes them feel cool.
You are saying this with absolutely no evidence or reason to believe this, so I'm really struggling to give you the benefit of the doubt here. But I'll make one attempt.

Perhaps you have seen parents who are vociferous in their support of their transgender children and interpret them being proud of their child as them "feeling cool." Let me assure you that this is extremely far from the actual experience of these parents. Parents who loudly support their child do it because deep down they support their child.

When people from across the spectrum - friends, family, strangers - tell you "it's just a phase" or much, much worse, you tend to get louder in your support. When your child can't go to the bathroom at school, you get louder. When your child admits they are feeling suicidal because everyone is telling them they are defective or a freak, you get really fucking loud in telling them they are good and have value no matter what gender they decide on.

It has nothing to do with feeling cool, and it's offensive to say that when you know so little about the subject.
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Old 12-13-2018, 07:42 PM
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I realize a lot more children and parents have opened up to the idea of transgender but it also seems to be a lot more common today than it was decades earlier.
What like being gay? Society is changing and is more accepting, thats it.
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:29 PM
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What long-term consequences are caused by puberty blockers? How do they compare to the long-term consequences of not taking them and going through puberty as a sex that does not correlate to the person's gender?

The whole purpose of taking puberty blockers is to reduce long-term consequences like reassignment surgeries, and to allow kids more time to make a real choice. Removing that option is forcing them to go through something that is not fully reversible. And no-one is forcing their kids to take them. C'mon.
Contrary to what some may believe, puberty blockers HAVE been indeed found to have long term effects -- and not always positive ones.

I am NOT saying this as an anti-trans person -- I think most Dopers know me better than that Buut I can understand why a parent would be concerned about putting a child on such a drug. Puberty blockers also are not just prescribed if a teenager is diagnosed as being trans -- they're also for cases of precocious puberty. And I would expect those parents to be just as cautious.

I don't think it's fair to paint people who might be a wee bit skeptical about them as anti-trans. You can totally support your kid while being worried like, "hey, how will these drugs affect them in the future?" Are there childdren who begin to transition without them, necessarily?



(I had a year's worth of tests before I went on freaking Ritalin, for fuck's sake.)
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:56 PM
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How do you feel about transgender children in general?

I know quite a few transgender adults, I don't know any transgender children. I would like to see any child grow up as happy and as healthy as possible. I suspect my grandson may be transgender and he is my favorite grandchild. I have suspected this since he was about 14 and he is 23 now. I have no problem with it. I do have a problem when parents are too eager to accept that a child is transgender at a very young age and start steering the child in that direction.

I had a close friend who committed suicide at 32 years old. He identified as transgender from a very young age. He committed suicide after he has started the medical process. He decided he made a mistake. His story was a tragedy, his parents abandon he and his older sister when she was 12 and he was 6. He started working as a prostitute at 6 years old and I imagine it messed him up mentally.
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Old 12-13-2018, 08:59 PM
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I don't think it's fair to paint people who might be a wee bit skeptical about them as anti-trans. You can totally support your kid while being worried like, "hey, how will these drugs affect them in the future?" Are there childdren who begin to transition without them, necessarily?
OK, so you're a wee bit skeptical. That's fine. Now what's the next step - what should be the result of that skepticism?

Does it mean restricting access to these drugs to make sure someone who later settles on cis doesn't suffer any side effects? If so, then I urge you to read the essay linked by Miller above, which explains this much better than I can.

Or does it just mean make sure there is a lot of thought that takes place before starting a child on them, to determine if the possible side effects are outweighed by the benefit? Then no problem, because this already happens.
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:46 PM
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I think as a parent myself, I would also be concerned that a "phase" might be misidentified as something more permanent. As others have pointed out though there is (or seems to be, I'd like to read more about it) a careful process for handling transgender feelings.

I know that among the gay men of my friendship and acquaintance, their are coming out stories that range from "I knew when I was 4 and my first (unrequited) crush was at age 8" to "I realized in my 50s." So we shouldn't discount a young person's experience of themselves.
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Old 12-13-2018, 10:52 PM
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OK, so you're a wee bit skeptical. That's fine. Now what's the next step - what should be the result of that skepticism?

Does it mean restricting access to these drugs to make sure someone who later settles on cis doesn't suffer any side effects? If so, then I urge you to read the essay linked by Miller above, which explains this much better than I can.

Or does it just mean make sure there is a lot of thought that takes place before starting a child on them, to determine if the possible side effects are outweighed by the benefit? Then no problem, because this already happens.
Honestly? I don't know what I would do. Granted, I'm not a parent, so it's just an intellectual question for me.
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Old 12-14-2018, 12:43 AM
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I think as a parent myself, I would also be concerned that a "phase" might be misidentified as something more permanent. As others have pointed out though there is (or seems to be, I'd like to read more about it) a careful process for handling transgender feelings.

I know that among the gay men of my friendship and acquaintance, their are coming out stories that range from "I knew when I was 4 and my first (unrequited) crush was at age 8" to "I realized in my 50s." So we shouldn't discount a young person's experience of themselves.

I think Gay boys are much easier to positively identify than transsexual children in a lot of cases. I knew my nephew was gay at age 2. My wide used to always tell me why do I say that? I could just tell. He finally came out in his twenties. My other nephew was pretty clear by age 6. I have a gay niece and she was always a tom boy, she dated boys until her early twenties and then came out.
  #39  
Old 12-14-2018, 12:52 AM
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This is an interesting person/story, though it isn't fully told (at least as I understand it) in the Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greer_Lankton

Here's another:

http://www.artnet.com/magazineus/fea...ton1-26-07.asp

The story about Greer (born Greg) that I've heard from people who knew them (as Greg) was that the parents were more comfortable with the idea of a trans son than a gay son, so they gladly paid for the surgery. Greer later regretted it; they had a complicated identity.

I'm NOT criticizing any young person who wants to transition; but I thought this would be of interest as a point of history.
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Old 12-14-2018, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Guinastasia View Post
I am NOT saying this as an anti-trans person -- I think most Dopers know me better than that Buut I can understand why a parent would be concerned about putting a child on such a drug. Puberty blockers also are not just prescribed if a teenager is diagnosed as being trans -- they're also for cases of precocious puberty. And I would expect those parents to be just as cautious.
Caution goes in both directions. There are risks that come with taking any medication, especially one that fiddles with hormones. But there are also risks that are associated with being transgender and stuck with a (post-puberty) body that doesn't match your self-image.

The article miller linked to upthread (I'm relinking right here for convenience) addresses this issue nicely:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julia Serrano
...authors often raise fears that some children (i.e., ones who are “really cisgender” in their minds) may be pushed into the “wrong” puberty, and thus may have to undergo expensive medical procedures to correct those bodily changes. But this precisely describes what a trans child would face if they were not allowed to transition until adulthood. If the former example concerns you, but the latter one doesn’t, then that’s a clear sign that you value cis bodies and lives over trans ones.
She also notes that the decision to take these drugs is never a casual one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Julia Serrano
Rather than being shamed by their families and coerced into gender conformity, these children are given the space to explore their genders. If they consistently, persistently, and insistently identify as a gender other than the one they were assigned at birth, then their identity is respected, and they are given the opportunity to live as a member of that gender. If they remain happy in their identified gender, then they may later be placed on puberty blockers to stave off unwanted bodily changes until they are old enough (often at age sixteen) to make an informed decision about whether or not to hormonally transition. If they change their minds at any point along the way, then they are free to make the appropriate life changes and/or seek out other identities.
Serrano's article is very well-written; I would encourage everyone participating in this thread to read it.
  #41  
Old 12-14-2018, 08:31 AM
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I know quite a few transgender adults, I don't know any transgender children
Then what are you basing your opinions on when it comes to this subject?
  #42  
Old 12-14-2018, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerDC View Post
I knew my nephew was gay at age 2.
I'm sorry, but how could you possibly know a two-year old was gay?
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Old 12-14-2018, 11:37 AM
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I'm sorry, but how could you possibly know a two-year old was gay?
At that particular time there wasn't much discussion on transgender and some of us tended to lump that together with gay. He was extremely feminine from the very beginning. Today I would probably think he was transgender however as far as I now he grew up to be gay and if he is transgender he hasn't come out. He does assume the female roll in his relationship.
  #44  
Old 12-14-2018, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerDC View Post
At that particular time there wasn't much discussion on transgender and some of us tended to lump that together with gay. He was extremely feminine from the very beginning. Today I would probably think he was transgender however as far as I now he grew up to be gay and if he is transgender he hasn't come out. He does assume the female roll in his relationship.
The "Female roll"? What, pray tell, is the "female roll"?
  #45  
Old 12-14-2018, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerDC View Post
At that particular time there wasn't much discussion on transgender and some of us tended to lump that together with gay. He was extremely feminine from the very beginning. Today I would probably think he was transgender however as far as I now he grew up to be gay and if he is transgender he hasn't come out. He does assume the female roll in his relationship.
But what does "extremely feminine" have to do with being gay? And how does a 2 year old act "extremely feminine" anyway?
  #46  
Old 12-14-2018, 12:02 PM
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But what does "extremely feminine" have to do with being gay? And how does a 2 year old act "extremely feminine" anyway?
Thats going back like 48 years so I don't remember the details but I did get it right. I see what you are saying about associating femininity with gayness. We usually had 1 or 2 kids in our class that we refereed to as sissies. I don't remember anyone ever being mean to them. They were usually nerdy kids and good students. A very large percentage of them did grow up to be gay males. I never thought of them as feminine but neither were they very masculine.
  #47  
Old 12-14-2018, 12:04 PM
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Well this thread won't be awful at all, will it?

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Thanks for posting that, it confirms my suspicions. My biggest concern has been are some parents jumping on this bandwagon too early to get some kind of special identity for themselves as a parent of a transgender, it sure appears this way.
DAMMIT.

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Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerDC View Post
Yes, I actually do believe that some parents are jumping on the bandwagon because it makes them feel cool.
And I believe some parents drown their kids in the bathtub because god told them to. If that sounds any less bizarre and awful than what you just said, your priors are off.
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  #48  
Old 12-14-2018, 12:12 PM
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This is preposterous! You cannot tell shit about a two-year-old. Between this and whatever point he was trying to make about "animals playing animal games", Honey badger sounds to me like he's posting drunk.
  #49  
Old 12-14-2018, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by HoneyBadgerDC View Post
Thats going back like 48 years so I don't remember the details but I did get it right. I see what you are saying about associating femininity with gayness. We usually had 1 or 2 kids in our class that we refereed to as sissies. I don't remember anyone ever being mean to them. They were usually nerdy kids and good students. A very large percentage of them did grow up to be gay males. I never thought of them as feminine but neither were they very masculine.
You claim that y'all called some children "sissy", but were never mean to them, and you also claimed to keep track of them through the years and can tell us that a large percentage of them turned out gay? The former is just nonsense, and the latter comes damn close to the term "stalking".
  #50  
Old 12-14-2018, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
You claim that y'all called some children "sissy", but were never mean to them, and you also claimed to keep track of them through the years and can tell us that a large percentage of them turned out gay? The former is just nonsense, and the latter comes damn close to the term "stalking".
We refereed to them as sissies, not called them sissies. I have lived in the same city my entire life, I went to school with many of the same kids for 12 years and as an adult I attend the class reunions every 5 years. So I do keep up with them.
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