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Old 01-07-2019, 05:06 PM
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Broadcast networks deliberating whether to air Trump's prime time immigration address

Here we go.

Dunno how to feel about this. Seems a little late to stop feeding the troll. The guy is a compulsive liar--that's not an opinion, it is a remarkably verifiable fact, regrettably. Is it unreasonable to expect NEWS outlets to at least try to deliver something that looks like the truth? If so, how much sense does it make to place that seal of approval on what a reasonable person can only expect will be a barrage of lies to terrify the easily deceived and to further a political aim?

On the other hand, something is brewing, and don't NEWS outlets have an obligation to present the major goings on of society?

Maybe they can broadcast him on a 20 minute delay, so the fact checkers can research what he says and update the scrolling banner beneath his mug as he says what he wants to say? Seems like a fair compromise.

Last edited by Inigo Montoya; 01-07-2019 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:10 PM
EscAlaMike EscAlaMike is offline
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I think it would be great if the media and the public for that matter took this type of thing less seriously.

The only drawback I see is the blowback from the Trump followers who would be confirmed in their beliefs re: an anti-Trump, fake news conspiracy.
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:14 PM
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Seems like it would simply be ceding the airtime entirely to networks like FOX, who would benefit from being the sole airers of it. Furthermore, announcing that "We won't cover Trump's speech on such-and-such-a-day" would have a Streisand Effect, perhaps getting more people to view it than otherwise.
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:23 PM
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I think it would be great if the media and the public for that matter took this type of thing less seriously.

The only drawback I see is the blowback from the Trump followers who would be confirmed in their beliefs re: an anti-Trump, fake news conspiracy.
Take what less seriously? The verifiable fact that the POTUS is a belligerent and compulsive liar whose only real goal at this point is saving face? The fact that his being a noncredible source of information is at odds with presenting credible stories about our world? Something else I'm missing?

But yeah, not broadcasting it at all is ultimately the worse idea.

Last edited by Inigo Montoya; 01-07-2019 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:26 PM
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Maybe they could air it "pop up video" style so for every factual error a pop up would say "actually, <real data>"...

Just a thought,
Brian
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:27 PM
EscAlaMike EscAlaMike is offline
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Take what less seriously? The verifiable fact that the POTUS is a belligerent and compulsive liar whose only real goal at this point is saving face? The fact that his being a noncredible source of information is at odds with presenting credible stories about our world? Something else I'm missing?

But yeah, not broadcasting it at all is ultimately the worse idea.
Politicians and all of their blusterings in general. All the fretting and bellyaching just plays into their inflated sense of self-worth and overall self aggrandizement.

Fortunately, our political system is still such that the words and actions of the President have very little to no affect on our daily lives.
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:57 PM
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Is it really necessary to have all four networks, and two cable networks, simulcasting anything?
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Old 01-07-2019, 05:59 PM
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Maybe they could air it "pop up video" style so for every factual error a pop up would say "actually, <real data>"...

Just a thought,
Brian
That's exactly what they should do. They can have the little Pinocchio icons, with the length of the nose showing how egregious the lies are.
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Old 01-07-2019, 08:02 PM
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Politicians and all of their blusterings in general. All the fretting and bellyaching just plays into their inflated sense of self-worth and overall self aggrandizement.
I still don’t understand what you’re trying to say. Just tell us what you think TV stations should do.

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Fortunately, our political system is still such that the words and actions of the President have very little to no affect on our daily lives.
All this establishes is that you’re not a 5 year old non-white kid who has been ripped from his parents arms.
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Old 01-07-2019, 08:53 PM
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Oh they should agree to do this. His lies should be pointed out in as real time as possible. And if/when he doesn't show up, they should broadcast a live feed of a chair with an empty suit draped over it.
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Old 01-07-2019, 08:54 PM
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On the other hand, something is brewing, and don't NEWS outlets have an obligation to present the major goings on of society?
Yes, but they aren't obligated to broadcast it live in prime time. As Barack Obama found out in 2014.
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:02 PM
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Fortunately, our political system is still such that the words and actions of the President have very little to no affect on our daily lives.
Bless your heart. May you live in interesting times.
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:05 PM
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Yes, but they aren't obligated to broadcast it live in prime time. As Barack Obama found out in 2014.
You really should read your own link before citing it.
"A source at one of the major networks told The Hill that the White House did not officially request prime-time coverage on the network..."
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:16 PM
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Here we go.

On the other hand, something is brewing, and don't NEWS outlets have an obligation to present the major goings on of society?
Where did you get the idea that they have any such obligation?
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:18 PM
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A major speech by the President should be covered by the networks. The government shutdown effects a lot of people and the nation should hear from our President.

The democrats should be given air time to offer their counter argument.

Last edited by aceplace57; 01-07-2019 at 09:20 PM.
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:21 PM
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What if it's not a major speech? What if it's just bullshit propaganda and political desperation?

(I do respect that you called for the Democratic counterpoint to be aired.)

Last edited by bobot; 01-07-2019 at 09:22 PM.
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:23 PM
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That's why the democrats should get air time to counter what Trump says.

Every word in his speech will be torn apart and debated for days to come.

Any untruths or errors will quickly be found and reported.

Last edited by aceplace57; 01-07-2019 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:41 PM
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That's why the democrats should get air time to counter what Trump says.

Every word in his speech will be torn apart and debated for days to come.

Any untruths or errors will quickly be found and reported.
I think the networks should carve out some time for themselves to state the FACTS that thump will have lied about. Because he will lie. We all know that, going into this. He won't just say dumb, stupid, demented stuff, he will tell lies.

Giving the Dems equal time isn't really wholly appropriate, because this isn't a situation where a representative of one party is stating a position that the other party should have the opportunity to rebut. We're not talking about countering whatever thump says with the opinions, position, or stance of the other side. Thump is going to LIE, to say things that aren't true, to claim that some things are facts that are simply NOT. If the Dems disagree, that can and will be claimed by the Pubs as being partisan.

Someone needs to present facts and truth. If thump comes out and says, "Other presidents have said they wish they had built a wall," someone besides Nancy Pelosi needs to say that is simply not true.
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Old 01-07-2019, 09:59 PM
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You really should read your own link before citing it.
"A source at one of the major networks told The Hill that the White House did not officially request prime-time coverage on the network..."
I read it. Not only that, I remember when it happened. The networks didn't run the speech because the networks didn't want to run the speech. The White House didn't make an official request because they had already been given the word unofficially.

Cite

Another cite

Another cite

And one more for good measure.
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:05 PM
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Yes, they should air his speech. For good or bad, Donald Trump is the President of the United States. The things he says matter, even if they're lies or insults or childish tantrums or displays of ignorance. It's newsworthy and the networks have an obligation to report the news.

After his speech is over, the networks also have the duty to report if anything he says is factually incorrect.
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:11 PM
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That's why the democrats should get air time to counter what Trump says.

Every word in his speech will be torn apart and debated for days to come.

Any untruths or errors will quickly be found and reported.
The Democrats should be presenting alternative political proposals when they have them.

But the media should be reporting it when the President says things which are factually incorrect.
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:13 PM
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Where did you get the idea that they have any such obligation?
Part of the agreement for getting a broadcasting license is the network has to report the news.
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:22 PM
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The verifiable fact that the POTUS is a belligerent and compulsive liar whose only real goal at this point is saving face?
I feel it's more than just saving face. Trump has never shown any problem with breaking his word if that's all that's going on. He would just drop the issue and claim he had won.

Considering how uncharacteristically stubborn he's being, I'm assuming there's money involved. Trump has probably been promised a large kickback from some construction company and will only get paid if the wall gets funded.
  #24  
Old 01-07-2019, 10:36 PM
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I feel it's more than just saving face. Trump has never shown any problem with breaking his word if that's all that's going on. He would just drop the issue and claim he had won.

Considering how uncharacteristically stubborn he's being, I'm assuming there's money involved. Trump has probably been promised a large kickback from some construction company and will only get paid if the wall gets funded.
I think it's more simple than that.

If he doesn't get money for "Wall" and the nutty alt-right talking heads excoriate him for his failure to his base, what will he blather on about at all those campaign rallies? He loves his krazy krowds when they go insane for talk of "Wall."

What the hell will he do when he can't talk about "Wall?"
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Old 01-07-2019, 10:44 PM
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Part of the agreement for getting a broadcasting license is the network has to report the news.
Networks don't have to "report the news." In fact, networks don't get broadcasting licenses, individual stations do. And the exact phrase is "serve the public interest, convenience, and necessity."

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Old 01-08-2019, 01:53 AM
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That's exactly what they should do. They can have the little Pinocchio icons, with the length of the nose showing how egregious the lies are.
We don't all have 70" TVs you know.
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Old 01-08-2019, 04:02 AM
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Every word in his speech will be torn apart and debated for days to come.

Any untruths or errors will quickly be found and reported.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThelmaLou View Post
I think the networks should carve out some time for themselves to state the FACTS that thump will have lied about. Because he will lie. We all know that, going into this. He won't just say dumb, stupid, demented stuff, he will tell lies.
Don't you see that Trump's whole strategy is based on the fact that his audience (his base) don't have enough attention span to consider any analysis after the fact. He relies on that. He knows they don't have the mental capacity or the will to sit there and listen to facts that came afterward.

So it's mostly useless to do that. No--the fact-checking must be embedded into Trump's actual speech, as he speaks, to expose him immediately. That's the only way in which Truth stands a chance.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:24 AM
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I don't think the networks should feel obligated to carry a presidential address unless the president is giving genuinely new information that would justify a breaking news report even if the president wasn't the one talking about it.

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 01-08-2019 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:33 AM
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Be thankful that Trump only wants to speak on TV. Remember a few months ago when the government tested out the system to text every cell phone? Imagine a non-stop Twitstorm that you couldn't avoid if you wanted to...
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:37 AM
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Don't you see that Trump's whole strategy is based on the fact that his audience (his base) don't have enough attention span to consider any analysis after the fact. He relies on that. He knows they don't have the mental capacity or the will to sit there and listen to facts that came afterward.

So it's mostly useless to do that. No--the fact-checking must be embedded into Trump's actual speech, as he speaks, to expose him immediately. That's the only way in which Truth stands a chance.
That's why a post-talk analysis with yammering pundits won't work. Instead there need to be real-time popups and/or a scroll, or animated neon Pinocchios dancing across the bottom of the screen. Or maybe just a CGI effect so that whenever thump lies, HIS nose gets longer and longer. So that by the end of the talk, the end of his nose is disappearing off the side of the screen. Yeah. That would work.
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:31 AM
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I heard someone on NPR this morning say something to the effect of, "Trump will have to convince the American people [during this speech] that there's a crisis on the Southern border, and that a wall will solve that crisis." She said this not as a joke, like she was a legitimate reporting making a neutral report.

We know there's no crisis on the Southern border, at least not one that's not created by the US government in the first place, and we know that a wall will be a useless waste of money. There's nothing that Trump could say at this point that would prove otherwise. He's not sitting on some convincing facts or anything.

It's frustrating as hell that anybody is pretending like this is normal politics. The president is going to go on TV tonight and lie. We know this ahead of time. And yet the machinations of both the government and the media are just gong to cover it like it's business as usual.
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Old 01-08-2019, 10:34 AM
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We don't all have 70" TVs you know.
It can turn 900 if it nears the edge of the screen.
  #33  
Old 01-08-2019, 11:05 AM
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A major speech by the President should be covered by the networks. The government shutdown effects a lot of people and the nation should hear from our President.

The democrats should be given air time to offer their counter argument.
I agree. I won't watch the lying basterd, but still.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:19 AM
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I heard someone on NPR this morning say something to the effect of, "Trump will have to convince the American people [during this speech] that there's a crisis on the Southern border, and that a wall will solve that crisis." She said this not as a joke, like she was a legitimate reporting making a neutral report.

We know there's no crisis on the Southern border, at least not one that's not created by the US government in the first place, and we know that a wall will be a useless waste of money. There's nothing that Trump could say at this point that would prove otherwise. He's not sitting on some convincing facts or anything.

It's frustrating as hell that anybody is pretending like this is normal politics. The president is going to go on TV tonight and lie. We know this ahead of time. And yet the machinations of both the government and the media are just gong to cover it like it's business as usual.
Every time he says something untrue, they should distort his image a little more. Inside of ten minutes he'll look like one of the "blocked" people from Black Mirror.

And speaking of the horrors of technology, the only way I'm watching this speech (short of duress) is if one of the networks uses Deepfake to replace Trump's head with an actual talking asshole.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:23 AM
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Here's what I think at least one network should do:

1) Air Trump's speech on a tape delay.

2) Use the delay to insert corrections to any falsehoods he utters into the video, right after he says each one. Kinda like a Joe Isuzu sort of thing.
  #36  
Old 01-08-2019, 11:27 AM
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...
It's frustrating as hell that anybody is pretending like this is normal politics. The president is going to go on TV tonight and lie. We know this ahead of time. And yet the machinations of both the government and the media are just gong to cover it like it's business as usual.
This is what has bothered me the most from Day One. He is not normal. He is not a normal person. He is certainly not a normal president. Treating his aberrant behavior as normal business as usual is bullshit.
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Old 01-08-2019, 11:39 AM
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There is a possibility that, among his usual inimitable rhetorical flourishes, he will announce that he is invoking EMERGENCY POWERS. This would definitely be newsworthy, if it were to occur.

Regarding the possible impact of Trump invoking EMERGENCY POWERS, well, charitably, God rest our souls.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:04 PM
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Doesn't he need a Jar-Jar to recommend he be given special emergency powers? It'd be cool if pence showed up with a handful of nice young men in clean white coats to jacket up the Trump and take him away. But I hate waking up in a puddle like that.
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Old 01-08-2019, 01:00 PM
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Trump's communication skills are very limited. It's pretty bad when a speaker has to use "lock her up" to excite a campaign rally.

He won't have a crowd to feed off this time. This speech may be totally forgettable or it could be Trump's Joseph McCarthy moment.

I doubt he'll sway the nation with his stunning oratory.

Last edited by aceplace57; 01-08-2019 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 01-08-2019, 01:31 PM
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Here's what I think at least one network should do:

1) Air Trump's speech on a tape delay.

2) Use the delay to insert corrections to any falsehoods he utters into the video, right after he says each one. Kinda like a Joe Isuzu sort of thing.
Who'd have thought we'd elect Joe Isuzu president.

In the case of a real crisis all networks should air a president's speech. But this is a manufactured fake crisis. He can pay for his own propaganda, and let Fox take the ratings hit.
  #41  
Old 01-08-2019, 02:56 PM
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Is it really necessary to have all four networks, and two cable networks, simulcasting anything?
None wants to the be the network that took a pass on an event that will draw viewers and therefore advertisers. It's not like one central planner decided that they all need to do this.
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Old 01-08-2019, 04:31 PM
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The Votemaster thinks there is a real chance he will declare a state of emergency and order the military to start building a wall. See: https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp20...08.html#item-2.
  #43  
Old 01-08-2019, 04:34 PM
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Trump's communication skills are very limited. It's pretty bad when a speaker has to use "lock her up" to excite a campaign rally.

He won't have a crowd to feed off this time. This speech may be totally forgettable or it could be Trump's Joseph McCarthy moment.

I doubt he'll sway the nation with his stunning oratory.
I predict sniffing.
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Old 01-08-2019, 04:48 PM
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Maybe they could air it "pop up video" style so for every factual error a pop up would say "actually, <real data>"...

Just a thought,
Brian
Please make this a reality. Can't Watson (the computer) determine lies and provide factual answers relatively quickly?
  #45  
Old 01-08-2019, 05:28 PM
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Is this going to be the live-follow-along thread? Because I'm curious, but not enough to actually watch it.
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:29 PM
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Is this going to be the live-follow-along thread? Because I'm curious, but not enough to actually watch it.
That'll be fun. I haven't done one of those since ... election night 2016.
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:49 PM
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WaPo offers follow-along fact-checking sheet.

"Your fact-checking cheat sheet for Trump’s immigration address"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ation-address/
Quote:
Here’s a guide to 20 possible assertions the president could make tonight so that readers can follow along as he speaks. You could use these claims to create your own form of bingo. If you are tempted to create a drinking game, however, we recommend you water down the drinks.
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“Our government may at some time be in the hands of a bad man. When in the hands of a good man it is all well enough.” But “we ought to have our government so shaped that even when in the hands of a bad man we shall be safe.” Frederick Douglass
  #48  
Old 01-08-2019, 06:09 PM
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tripthicket tripthicket is offline
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When inevitably called out on his impromptu Lies Of The Union address by all sane agencies, he'll scream Fake News. It's a feature, not a bug, since it lets him continue his Harassed President narrative and keeps his name & face in a few more news cycles (until the next thing). Solving the nation's problems? 'This nation's biggest problem is that not enough people are saying how great I'm doing. Believe me.'
  #49  
Old 01-08-2019, 06:28 PM
nearwildheaven nearwildheaven is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ike Witt View Post
Be thankful that Trump only wants to speak on TV. Remember a few months ago when the government tested out the system to text every cell phone? Imagine a non-stop Twitstorm that you couldn't avoid if you wanted to...
Or loudspeakers in every home, like they have in parts of North Korea.

I have a relative on Facebook whose 15-year-old daughter is autistic and has some degree of intellectual disability. Mom asked Daughter if she wanted to watch the speech tonight, and Daughter replied, "No. I hate him."

"That's not a nice word. How about 'dislike'?"

"OK, I dislike (x10) him."

She raised this kid right.
  #50  
Old 01-08-2019, 06:31 PM
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Katriona Katriona is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CookingWithGas View Post
None wants to the be the network that took a pass on an event that will draw viewers and therefore advertisers. It's not like one central planner decided that they all need to do this.
I can’t find it now, but I read earlier this morning that the networks carrying the speech have agreed to carry the Democrats’ rebuttal.
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