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Old 03-10-2019, 01:13 PM
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Losing virginity in teen years


In society, still being a virgin by one's 20th birthday is highly frowned upon. The average age in the US to lose virginity is 17. Frankly, this is why I think our society has FAILED.

The point of posting this is because there is so much debate on whether or not abortion should be legal, and there is also some scientific debate on when the fetus becomes sentient (feels pain and is conscious) that plays into the abortion debate as well. I'm not going to give away my political opinion on abortion, but anyway...one problem with abortion being illegal is that the planet becomes overpopulated. Did you know that HALF OF ALL PREGNANCIES ARE UNPLANNED? Doesn't really matter if unplanned does not mean unwanted IMO. On top of that, 25% of all women in the US will have an abortion at some point in their lifetime. The main reason why so many unplanned pregnancies (and abortions) happen is because we have intercourse for PLEASURE, while most mammals have intercourse solely for reproducing. Because we also do it for pleasure and not just reproducing, we have this peer pressure thing where a person should lose their virginity before age 20, or else they are considered "uncool".

So instead of trying to do it before 20, I think we should not feel so pressured by peers but to wait until like late 20s when many people start having kids. That's all folks.
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Old 03-10-2019, 01:26 PM
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For the abortions I was involved, both participants were in their late 20s. I will admit, however, the intercourse was indeed for PLEASURE. 99.9% of the intercourse during my lifetime has been for PLEASURE. The remainder was probably by accident.

I'll let someone else weigh in on animals having sex for PLEASURE.
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Old 03-10-2019, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by scarface54345 View Post
In society, still being a virgin by one's 20th birthday is highly frowned upon.
Cite?

What is this "society" you speak of? I think you will find different attitudes among different subcultures, families, etc.

Personally, I think the whole concept of "virginity" is completely pointless, having outlived any relevance it may once have had,
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The main reason why so many unplanned pregnancies (and abortions) happen is because we have intercourse for PLEASURE, while most mammals have intercourse solely for reproducing.
As far as I know, humans are the only animals who ever have intercourse for the express purpose of reproducing.
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Old 03-10-2019, 01:50 PM
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You know, pleasure isn't an inherently bad thing.

As for unplanned pregnancies (and abortions), well, I'd certainly prefer freely available birth control. I bet most teens would too!
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by scarface54345 View Post
So instead of trying to do it before 20, I think we should not feel so pressured by peers but to wait until like late 20s when many people start having kids. That's all folks.

I remember people preaching (sometimes metaphorical preaching, sometimes literal) about people having sex because of peer pressure when I was a teen. It was crap then and it is crap now. Maybe some teen have sex because of peer pressure, but the majority of teens have sex because when you are a teen you spend practically every moment overwhelmingly horny. (Maybe we should tell teens to just eat udon.)
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:37 PM
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[...] we have intercourse for PLEASURE, while most mammals have intercourse solely for reproducing. [...]
Gotta call shenanigans on this one. How in the world do you know that most mammals intend reproduction with no interest in pleasure? And how do you know humans aren't sometimes doing it for reproducing?

I think it's pretty obvious that creatures great and small are, in effect, evolutionarily designed to want sex and expect pleasure from it, to whatever extent they are able to want and expect anything.
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:49 PM
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(Maybe we should tell teens to just eat udon.)
You want to encourage bukkake?!
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Old 03-10-2019, 02:57 PM
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If animals didn't get pleasure from sex, why would the do it?

And in evolutionary terms, an animal that enjoy sex is likely to do it more than one who has none, so they would be selected.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:02 PM
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... most mammals have intercourse solely for reproducing.
Absolutely wrong. How many animals even associate intercourse with reproduction? They do it for pleasure.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:06 PM
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Absolutely wrong. How many animals even associate intercourse with reproduction? They do it for pleasure.
Well, maybe not female bed bugs...
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by scarface54345 View Post
In society, still being a virgin by one's 20th birthday is highly frowned upon. The average age in the US to lose virginity is 17. Frankly, this is why I think our society has FAILED.

...The main reason why so many unplanned pregnancies (and abortions) happen is because we have intercourse for PLEASURE, while most mammals have intercourse solely for reproducing. Because we also do it for pleasure and not just reproducing, we have this peer pressure thing where a person should lose their virginity before age 20, or else they are considered "uncool". ...
If you think peer pressure is the reason teens have sex, I would want a cite for that. In my opinion (and memory of being a teen) most of the teens who have sex do it because they can -- they have means and opportunity. They have a partner and desire, and a time and place where they can get away with it. They may or may not have birth control available to them, which as already mentioned is where the emphasis should be on teens and sex and abortion.

You sound kind of biblical about the pleasure thing. Is this a religious thing? I've long thought that people who are religious nuts about sex and pleasure are just anti-pleasure (at least for other people). For me, I think everyone should have pleasure - responsibly.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:25 PM
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Teen pregnancies result from inadequate education, inadequate empowerment, And inadequate access to resources.

People are going to have sex when they’re interested in having sex and they should be adequately prepared for it.

Last edited by Acsenray; 03-10-2019 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Roderick Femm View Post
If you think peer pressure is the reason teens have sex, I would want a cite for that.
It's pretty clear to me that human beings (including teens) have sex for a number of different motives, including but not limited to pleasure, reproduction, affection, bonding, curiosity, conquest, cash—and, yes, social expectations.

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Teen pregnancies result from inadequate education, inadequate empowerment, And inadequate access to resources.
And here I always thought that teen pregnancies resulted from sex.


A few facts from the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services
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The 2016 teen birth rate (births per 1,000 females ages 15-19 in a given year) is down nine percent from 2015, when the birth rate was 22.3, and down 67 percent from 1991 when it was at a record high of 61.8.1 The teen birth rate has declined more or less continuously over the past quarter century, and is at the lowest level ever recorded. Still, the teen birth rate in the United States remains higher than that in many other developed countries, including Canada and the United Kingdom.
Quote:
Teen birth rates differ substantially by age, racial and ethnic group, and region of the country.
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Numerous individual, family, and community characteristics have been linked to adolescent childbearing. For example, adolescents who are enrolled in school and engaged in learning (including participating in after-school activities, having positive attitudes toward school, and performing well educationally) are less likely than are other adolescents to have or to father a baby. At the family level, adolescents with mothers who gave birth as teens and/or whose mothers have only a high school degree are more likely to have a baby before age 20 than are teens whose mothers were older at their birth or who attended at least some college.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:59 PM
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Personally, I think the whole concept of "virginity" is completely pointless, having outlived any relevance it may once have had,
I largely agree. However, shouldn't there be some room for a societal standard that people should fall on a line somewhere between complete chastity and casual sex?

It seems in these discussions the two sides are: 1) kids should wait until marriage or at least until they are older, and 2) that is unrealistic. Do we have to be absolutist about it?

Although we have largely eschewed the wait until marriage for sex idea, can't we have a standard, especially for children, that sex is still special and should be reserved for someone with whom you are in a committed long term relationship with instead of treating sex as a pleasure sport?
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:02 PM
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Well, maybe not female bed bugs...
But to stick with mammals, I really don't think cats get a lot of pleasure from the act. At least not the females, what with the males having sharp barbs on their penises and all.
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:28 PM
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Although we have largely eschewed the wait until marriage for sex idea, can't we have a standard, especially for children, that sex is still special and should be reserved for someone with whom you are in a committed long term relationship with instead of treating sex as a pleasure sport?
I'm not in favor of such a "standard." Different things work for different people.

When done properly, sex isn't more risky than a lot of other things 16 to 20 year olds do. (Driving, for example, but also things like SCUBA diving, walking to school on busy streets, and playing football.)

Why should we tell people "don't have sex for pleasure at age 19?" We don't say "don't play football for fun."

For many people, (myself included) sex in a committed long term relationship is better. That doesn't mean other sex should be avoided. If two people want to experience sex as a "pleasure sport" it doesn't violate my sensibilities.
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:54 PM
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Chuck Norris' daughter lost her virginity. He got it back.
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:55 PM
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I'm not in favor of such a "standard." Different things work for different people.

When done properly, sex isn't more risky than a lot of other things 16 to 20 year olds do. (Driving, for example, but also things like SCUBA diving, walking to school on busy streets, and playing football.)

Why should we tell people "don't have sex for pleasure at age 19?" We don't say "don't play football for fun."

For many people, (myself included) sex in a committed long term relationship is better. That doesn't mean other sex should be avoided. If two people want to experience sex as a "pleasure sport" it doesn't violate my sensibilities.
I'm not saying it should be a law of some sort, just a standard. Unlike those other risky activities, they do not carry the possibility of unwanted children. As much education we have done on having safe sex: 1) people who need to listen to the education the most don't listen, and 2) they are not fully effective.

Further, and I know it is bad to say on these boards, but there is still the morality aspect. I contend that the proliferation of sex as a pleasure activity with many partners contributes to the decline of stable marriages.
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Old 03-10-2019, 04:59 PM
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Further, and I know it is bad to say on these boards, but there is still the morality aspect. I contend that the proliferation of sex as a pleasure activity with many partners contributes to the decline of stable marriages.
I can't speak for everyone, but in my view my experience with the proliferation of sex as a pleasure activity prior to my marriage increased the odds that it would be stable.
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:02 PM
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I remember people preaching (sometimes metaphorical preaching, sometimes literal) about people having sex because of peer pressure when I was a teen. It was crap then and it is crap now. Maybe some teen have sex because of peer pressure, but the majority of teens have sex because when you are a teen you spend practically every moment overwhelmingly horny. (Maybe we should tell teens to just eat udon.)
Not really. There is such a thing as anti-slut-shaming, for want of a better word, and in the end, some kids will lie about their virginity status just to get their "friends" off their back about this. Abstinence-only education is very hurtful to kids for whom sexual activity is not an option because they cannot find a partner.

Another person's virginity status is none of anyone else's business, and anyone over the age of 18 who expresses interest, or even obsession, about it has, in my experience, had some serious hangups.
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:13 PM
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Sex is a good thing, a fun thing and as natural as eating, breathing and sleeping.

As such it should be openly discussed with kids from a very young age with no option for parental veto (we don't let them veto maths). Contraception should be free and freely available without any parental involvement. Kids should know the risks involved and implications of unprotected sex on their health and future plans. Then let them get on with it (they will anyway).

Take away the mystery and make sure we empower boys and girls (particularly girls) to be in charge of what they want and able to make their own choices. I don't have a particular problem with young, educated teenagers having safe consensual sex for pleasure so I see no need to try and introduce a new form of enforced chastity and puritanism.
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Old 03-10-2019, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by scarface54345 View Post
The main reason why so many unplanned pregnancies (and abortions) happen is because we have intercourse for PLEASURE, while most mammals have intercourse solely for reproducing.
To quote Cecil Adams, "scientifically speaking, animals always do it for fun. The only critters who do it because they have to are Catholics. Take it from your Unca Cecil."
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Old 03-10-2019, 06:19 PM
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I ceased to be a virgin at the age of 21, so I'm sort of in the situation that you appear to be recommending across the board for everyone.

I don't join you in that recommendation.

If I could go back and have things work the way I'd have ideally wanted them to, I would have had girlfriends the entire time from 4th grade on, and somewhere along the line between the age of 13 and the age of 17 would have gone all the way with someone I was comfortable with and cared about.
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Old 03-10-2019, 10:10 PM
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Newsflash. People were "trying to do it before 20" back when both boys and girls were slut-shamed (girls were sluts, and boys got a reputation so "nice girls" wouldn't date them.) My sister's best friend eloped at 17. She's now 75 and still married to the same man.

Instead of trying to turn off adolescent hormones, maybe you should be calling for improved sex education and access to contraception.
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Old 03-10-2019, 10:25 PM
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isnt it until the mid 1900s (20s and 30s) a lot of people were married with kids between 15 and 21 espically in farm country it leaned on the younger teen years

I mean my mom wasnt married until she 21 and didnt have her first kid until she was 24 (me) and the community (michigan/indiana) she came from made it sound like she was an old maid ......

she spent most of her first summer after hs going to friends and classmates weddings (some hurried up affairs and some planned since their sophmore year ) .......

Last edited by nightshadea; 03-10-2019 at 10:27 PM.
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Old 03-10-2019, 10:57 PM
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I live in Arkansas. We rank 49th in the US for high teen pregnancy numbers. Babies having babies. When the lil'wrekker graduated of a class of 120, no less than 12 were pregnant. A few already had toddlers. None were married. One boy had impregnated 3 girls by the time he graduated. He now washes cars at the local Ford dealership. Our rate of graduates going to college is lower than most states. Do you know what is needed here? I can tell you exactly what's needed. Parents. Parents who care enough to get their daughters on birth control. Parents who care enough to teach their sons about safe sex snd condoms. Parents who are interested in what their children are getting up to on the band bus( yes we had a sex scandal on the band bus) or after school dances and ballgames. Maybe be a chaperone. Parents who take an interest in the classes the children are taking. Parents who expect their kids to do as well as they are able. And tell the kid so. Parents whose heads are not so far up their own asses that they cannot see. It's happening right in front of our faces. Parents need to open their eyes.
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Old 03-10-2019, 11:56 PM
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I live in Arkansas. We rank 49th in the US for high teen pregnancy numbers. Babies having babies. When the lil'wrekker graduated of a class of 120, no less than 12 were pregnant. A few already had toddlers. None were married. One boy had impregnated 3 girls by the time he graduated. He now washes cars at the local Ford dealership. Our rate of graduates going to college is lower than most states. Do you know what is needed here? I can tell you exactly what's needed. Parents. Parents who care enough to get their daughters on birth control. Parents who care enough to teach their sons about safe sex snd condoms. Parents who are interested in what their children are getting up to on the band bus( yes we had a sex scandal on the band bus) or after school dances and ballgames. Maybe be a chaperone. Parents who take an interest in the classes the children are taking. Parents who expect their kids to do as well as they are able. And tell the kid so. Parents whose heads are not so far up their own asses that they cannot see. It's happening right in front of our faces. Parents need to open their eyes.
ISTM that y’all rank 2nd.
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:01 AM
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Well yeah.
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Old 03-11-2019, 12:46 AM
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I can tell you exactly what's needed. Parents. Parents who care enough to get their daughters on birth control.
Nope. God's going to fix it, any minute now, or so they keep telling us.
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Old 03-11-2019, 01:05 AM
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If I was counting on god to explain teen pregnancy and to teach them about sex education when my children were teens, I would still be waiting. I decided to do it myself. It worked out. None made a baby or had a baby while in their teens. My youngest will be 20 this year. I think maybe I made the right decision.
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Old 03-11-2019, 03:58 AM
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Preach it sister! I'm givin ya an AMEN! I have 3 grandkids, but they came about by choice and planning, not ignorance.
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Old 03-11-2019, 06:55 AM
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If I was counting on god to explain teen pregnancy and to teach them about sex education when my children were teens, I would still be waiting. I decided to do it myself. It worked out. None made a baby or had a baby while in their teens. My youngest will be 20 this year. I think maybe I made the right decision.
Education definitely begins at home, you are to be applauded for doing so in an environment where it sounds like it isn't the norm.

I'm interested in whether your school system allows parental opt-outs regarding sex-ed and what the rate of that might be?

My two were given whatever facts they appeared interested in regarding sex and reproduction from the time when they were able to ask for it. That included the mechanics, contraception, the recreational nature of it, the fun involved the risk involved. It is no bigger deal than them wondering how bread "works". That has been backed up with age-appropriate school courses from the age of 8.
What I sincerely hope is that they feel confident and comfortable enough to say either "yes" or "no" at a point of their choosing, not to feel shame regardless of that choice and to be able to ask for any help or info they need.
Good education is is no guarantee against teenage sexual problems but if we don't equip them with the facts in the first place how the hell are they going to make informed decisions?
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Old 03-11-2019, 07:34 AM
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I contend that the proliferation of sex as a pleasure activity with many partners contributes to the decline of stable marriages.
First, you have to produce some data to demonstrate that marriages are becoming less stable over time.
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Old 03-11-2019, 07:46 AM
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I remember people preaching (sometimes metaphorical preaching, sometimes literal) about people having sex because of peer pressure when I was a teen. It was crap then and it is crap now. Maybe some teen have sex because of peer pressure, but the majority of teens have sex because when you are a teen you spend practically every moment overwhelmingly horny. (Maybe we should tell teens to just eat udon.)
What if they prefer soba? Or ramen?
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Old 03-11-2019, 07:49 AM
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Chuck Norris' daughter lost her virginity. He got it back.
I heard he got it back plus collected the vig.
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Old 03-11-2019, 08:34 AM
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So instead of trying to do it before 20, I think we should not feel so pressured by peers but to wait until like late 20s when many people start having kids. That's all folks.
This is the problem when you fail to put any real thought into your proposal. You think that making people wait longer to have sex will somehow significantly reduce the abortion rates? How do you account for the fact that the majority of abortions are not performed on teenagers? In 2014, only 3% of abortions involved 15-17 year olds. 61% of all abortions were on patients aged 20-29. The 25-29 age group accounted from almost a third of all abortions.
Tell us again how your stupid idea holds any merit??

Oh, and you think marriage has anything to do with it? Or you want people to wait to have sex until their late 20s because that's when people have kids, and somehow that will reduce abortions? How do you account for the fact that 59% of abortion patients already had at least one child? Or the fact that less than half (46%) of abortions were done on patients who were not married or cohabitating? So basically, people who are married or living with their partners, in their late 20s, who already have a child... those people account for a very large percentage of abortions--a far greater percent than 18-19 year olds who only account for 8%.

It took me 5 minutes to find this data. I have a feeling that it was 5 minutes longer than the effort you put into this...
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Old 03-11-2019, 03:43 PM
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I can't speak for everyone, but in my view my experience with the proliferation of sex as a pleasure activity prior to my marriage increased the odds that it would be stable.
How so? I'm just not seeing how that is possible.

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First, you have to produce some data to demonstrate that marriages are becoming less stable over time.
I'll google if need be, but my understanding is that divorce rates were very low until they exploded in the 1970s and 1980s and have slowly declined since then. But a bit part of that is because younger people are typically not getting married until they are older and financially stable as cohabitation is not seen as the evil that it once was.
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Old 03-11-2019, 03:52 PM
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Nope. God's going to fix it, any minute now, or so they keep telling us.
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Old 03-11-2019, 03:54 PM
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How so? I'm just not seeing how that is possible.
Probably several reasons. What I was thinking of when I wrote that is that 1)I know now that I enjoy sex more in a loving and committed relationship and 2) I know that I have found a partner that is much more compatible with me sexually than others. If I had not had a few (or more) prior experiences, I'm not sure I'd be so confident that I'm doing it right now. I might be wondering what I'm missing. Maybe not. Who knows.

I will say, I don't regret for a minute most of the sexual experiences I have had outside marriage. (there are, of course, exceptions. Life is like that.)
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Old 03-11-2019, 03:58 PM
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In society, still being a virgin by one's 20th birthday is highly frowned upon.
Is it?

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The average age in the US to lose virginity is 17.
That may be the average age at which people SAY they did.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Procrustus View Post
Probably several reasons. What I was thinking of when I wrote that is that 1)I know now that I enjoy sex more in a loving and committed relationship and 2) I know that I have found a partner that is much more compatible with me sexually than others. If I had not had a few (or more) prior experiences, I'm not sure I'd be so confident that I'm doing it right now. I might be wondering what I'm missing. Maybe not. Who knows.

I will say, I don't regret for a minute most of the sexual experiences I have had outside marriage. (there are, of course, exceptions. Life is like that.)
I agree wholeheartedly with #1, but I'm not sure I understand or agree with #2. The person you marry is not necessarily the person with whom you are most sexually compatible, indeed is most likely not the same person.

The person you choose to marry is the one that is most aligned with your dreams in life: where do you want to live, what do you like to do in your free time, do you want children and how many, is family important, do you have the same theological beliefs, can they put up with your imperfections and you them, etc.

If sexual compatibility lines up with those things above, then that is great, but from my experience and those of my friends, you marry the person that has those qualities in the above paragraph and you work on the sex later. You don't marry that girl that you had the wild, sweaty week in Vegas with, but decided that she wanted to live overseas.

I think the problem arises, for me and others, is that when you have the bumps in the road in the marriage, the drudgery and the mid-life crisis, you tend to look back on Vegas chick with a rosy sort of recollection: wow, that sex was great instead of the routine that the wife and I have fallen in.

But if you didn't do that. If you had a personal code that you didn't have sex with people like Vegas chick, then years later you would not be unfairly comparing your wife to her.

Hell, I could be wrong, though. It has worked out for you.
  #42  
Old 03-11-2019, 04:29 PM
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I agree wholeheartedly with #1, but I'm not sure I understand or agree with #2. The person you marry is not necessarily the person with whom you are most sexually compatible, indeed is most likely not the same person.
Possibly not. However, I would argue that sexual compatibility is an important factor in a happy, healthy marriage. All of the other things you listed in your post are, as well, but to go into a marriage making sure that you're compatible in those other areas, and having no actual idea if you're even remotely compatible in what you are looking for out of your sexual relationship, can certainly be problematic. If you went into a marriage having no idea of your spouse's thoughts were on children, their hobbies and interests, etc., it'd cause conflict, and mis-matched sexual drives are a source of conflict, too.

"You work on the sex later" *might* have worked out for you and your friends (or, at least, you believe that it did), but maybe it didn't -- and unless you and your friends share a lot of personal details about your marriages, you might never know.

My wife and I didn't live together before we got married; we'd dated for 2+ years before the wedding, and while we didn't wait for the wedding night for sex, we didn't sleep together very often before then, either (due, in part, to not actually seeing each other on a daily basis when we were dating). Also, I came into the relationship having been sexually active with two prior long-term girlfriends; she had not been.

And, after we got married, we discovered that, in truth, we weren't particularly compatible in that regard -- in what we like, and how often we like it, we are of very different minds (and that difference has just grown as we've gotten older). The incompatibility led to frequent frustration and disappointment for both of us.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 03-11-2019 at 04:30 PM.
  #43  
Old 03-11-2019, 05:56 PM
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This is proof that nowhere is a Chuck Norris joke not funny.
  #44  
Old 03-11-2019, 06:12 PM
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Education definitely begins at home, you are to be applauded for doing so in an environment where it sounds like it isn't the norm.

I'm interested in whether your school system allows parental opt-outs regarding sex-ed and what the rate of that might be?

My two were given whatever facts they appeared interested in regarding sex and reproduction from the time when they were able to ask for it. That included the mechanics, contraception, the recreational nature of it, the fun involved the risk involved. It is no bigger deal than them wondering how bread "works". That has been backed up with age-appropriate school courses from the age of 8.
What I sincerely hope is that they feel confident and comfortable enough to say either "yes" or "no" at a point of their choosing, not to feel shame regardless of that choice and to be able to ask for any help or info they need.
Good education is is no guarantee against teenage sexual problems but if we don't equip them with the facts in the first place how the hell are they going to make informed decisions?
Oh, there was no sex education taught in school. None. They had health class. Separately taught, boys had a coach for a teacher. And since home-ec was no longer offered the girls actually just went to study hall. This is the heart of the bible belt. Now you know why we rank so low, here in good ol' Arkansas.

Last edited by Beckdawrek; 03-11-2019 at 06:13 PM.
  #45  
Old 03-11-2019, 06:12 PM
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Possibly not. However, I would argue that sexual compatibility is an important factor in a happy, healthy marriage. All of the other things you listed in your post are, as well, but to go into a marriage making sure that you're compatible in those other areas, and having no actual idea if you're even remotely compatible in what you are looking for out of your sexual relationship, can certainly be problematic. If you went into a marriage having no idea of your spouse's thoughts were on children, their hobbies and interests, etc., it'd cause conflict, and mis-matched sexual drives are a source of conflict, too.

"You work on the sex later" *might* have worked out for you and your friends (or, at least, you believe that it did), but maybe it didn't -- and unless you and your friends share a lot of personal details about your marriages, you might never know.
I agree 100%. My only point was that sexual compatibility can be "worked on," perhaps not to the complete satisfaction of both parties, but those other things on the list cannot be dealt with in any meaningful sense. If you are content living in a small town, working 40 hours a week, having 2.4 kids, and going out to dinner once in a while, and she wants to travel the world living in Paris and London and never wanting to have kids, there is not much room there for compromise, even if you do have wonderfully awesome sex.

My main point was that when you are then working on that sexual compatibility, it does neither of you any service to wonder why she can't be like that chick from 2004 who did those nasty, nasty things that you like so well. You are holding her up to some standard that is unfair.
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Old 03-11-2019, 06:24 PM
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I agree 100%. My only point was that sexual compatibility can be "worked on," perhaps not to the complete satisfaction of both parties, but those other things on the list cannot be dealt with in any meaningful sense. If you are content living in a small town, working 40 hours a week, having 2.4 kids, and going out to dinner once in a while, and she wants to travel the world living in Paris and London and never wanting to have kids, there is not much room there for compromise, even if you do have wonderfully awesome sex.
I'll just say that YMMV on this. My suspicion is that some mismatches in this regard are not so severe that they can't be worked through, but a large number are severe enough that even a compromise will leave one or both partners unsatisfied and / or feeling used, damage the sense of shared intimacy, and thus leading to even deeper issues in a marriage.

And, with that, I'll drop this thread hijack.
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Old 03-11-2019, 07:03 PM
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Newsflash. People were "trying to do it before 20" back when both boys and girls were slut-shamed (girls were sluts, and boys got a reputation so "nice girls" wouldn't date them.) My sister's best friend eloped at 17. She's now 75 and still married to the same man.

Instead of trying to turn off adolescent hormones, maybe you should be calling for improved sex education and access to contraception.
I have told this story before -

My father was born during WWII to my 15 year old grandmother and her 18 year old GI boyfriend - then husband because you have to marry her son.

They divorced right after the war. He was from another state and wanted to live there, she wanted to stay with her family and not move in with strangers.

My grandmother eventually got remarried - she would have still been a teenager. The reason that she got married is that the man that became my grandfather took her on a "date" to a motel and couldn't perform - so he assumed it was a sign from God and married her - like a good Catholic boy. (You get the most truthful stories from your grandparents as they go senile).

We believe that in addition to my father, my uncles have a half sibling in the Philippines - that's where my grandfather was stationed and their were photos that indicate the stories he told about a Filipina girlfriend and leaving her behind pregnant were true - he would have been in his teens since he was discharged right after the war ended and that was before he turned 20.

We didn't get randy recently as teenagers.
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Old 03-11-2019, 07:09 PM
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Although we have largely eschewed the wait until marriage for sex idea, can't we have a standard, especially for children, that sex is still special and should be reserved for someone with whom you are in a committed long term relationship with instead of treating sex as a pleasure sport?
I would actually give (and have given - although my son doesn't listen and my daughter-ish is asexual and doesn't need it) very different advice.

Lose your virginity to someone who is going to take good care of you during the experience - someone patient and kind - but god forbid don't lose your virginity to someone you are "in love" with and "committed to." That is a hell of a lot of baggage to add on top of sex and hormones - it isn't fair to your partner, and its a good way to get hurt. You shouldn't marry the first person you have sex with (or the second or third) - and that first one is going to carry so much baggage during the break up if you think you are "committed" and it doesn't last forever.
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Old 03-11-2019, 09:23 PM
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I would actually give (and have given - although my son doesn't listen and my daughter-ish is asexual and doesn't need it) very different advice.

Lose your virginity to someone who is going to take good care of you during the experience - someone patient and kind - but god forbid don't lose your virginity to someone you are "in love" with and "committed to." That is a hell of a lot of baggage to add on top of sex and hormones - it isn't fair to your partner, and its a good way to get hurt. You shouldn't marry the first person you have sex with (or the second or third) - and that first one is going to carry so much baggage during the break up if you think you are "committed" and it doesn't last forever.
How would that work in practice? Almost all teenagers approach the point of having sex with their first partner for the very reason that they feel strong feelings for the person.

I'm not being a smartass, but do you tell your daughter, "No, not him. You can keep dating him, but go find a friend, a buddy, and tell him you want to sleep with him."? Does she tell the boyfriend that she is in love with that she plans on fucking another guy?

What happens when that boy (like boys will do) falls in love with your daughter? Dump him?

I'm all for not having your heart broken, but I engaged in a lot of premarital sex and still cried in my beer on many nights.

Respectfully, this seems completely bass-ackwards to me.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:53 PM
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I can see both sides of the issue, teenagers are going to have sex, abortions have gone up, teen pregnancies have gone down.

People don't like to have their behavior judged by others but it might still be a good idea not to be a slut or a man-whore as the trend for STD's is that they've continued to rise and many are becoming highly antibiotic resistant.

http://www.ashasexualhealth.org/cdc-...continue-rise/
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