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Old 03-14-2019, 03:30 PM
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Trump threatens political opponents


He has the police and military behind him. He might call out the Bikers for Trump!

I guess this is really just another day at the office for him.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/opini...art/index.html
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Bijou Drains View Post
He has the police and military behind him. He might call out the Bikers for Trump!

I guess this is really just another day at the office for him.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/03/14/opini...art/index.html
Your link is CLEARLY labelled an opinion piece. Do you have a factual cite?
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:15 PM
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Your link is CLEARLY labelled an opinion piece. Do you have a factual cite?
Try this,, a Breitbart exclusive.

Now I need to go take a shower in scalding-hot alcohol...
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:26 PM
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So the SDMB is accepting Breitbart as factual, now?

Good to know!
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:31 PM
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Your link is CLEARLY labelled an opinion piece. Do you have a factual cite?
It is an opinion piece, but it pulls a quote from a Breitbart interview with Trump. It compares that statement with one Sen. Jesse Helms made about Clinton that resulted in a lot of blowback (and a Secret Service investigation).

The opinion is that Trump has driven our politics (further) into the gutter. The fact is the actual quote from Trump:

Quote:
Originally Posted by President Donald J. Trump
I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of Bikers for Trump -- I have tough people, but they don't play it tough until they go to a certain point and then it would be very, very bad.
That's not an explicit threat, but it surely is an implicit one. At best, it's highly unbecoming of the POTUS to talk like that. At worst, it bleeds over into "who will relieve me of this troublesome priest" territory.
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:31 PM
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I remember reading about when the president physically threatened a Washington Post reporter because he didn't like a review that was published.

President Truman, that is.

Is it good? Of course not. But anyone acting like Trump has brought politics to a new low needs to remember politics has always been low.

Last edited by Dacien; 03-14-2019 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:32 PM
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So the SDMB is accepting Breitbart as factual, now?

Good to know!
If you are unclear on the subtle interplay between facts and opinions, and how an opinion piece may contain facts, that’s pretty amazing. Thank you for sharing that! Now back to the thread.
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Old 03-14-2019, 05:47 PM
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I remember reading about when the president physically threatened a Washington Post reporter because he didn't like a review that was published.

President Truman, that is.

Is it good? Of course not. But anyone acting like Trump has brought politics to a new low needs to remember politics has always been low.
There are two differences between Truman's threat and Trump's. First, Truman's threat was personal, not political--the bad review was of a vocal performance by Truman's daughter--against a single individual. Second, he threatened to beat the guy up himself.

Trump basically threatened his political opponents as a group with violence by proxy, including the military. He's not the kind of guy to do the dirty work himself.
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Old 03-14-2019, 07:11 PM
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... That's not an explicit threat, but it surely is an implicit one. At best, it's highly unbecoming of the POTUS to talk like that. At worst, it bleeds over into "who will relieve me of this troublesome priest" territory.
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Originally Posted by RickG View Post
... Trump basically threatened his political opponents as a group with violence by proxy, including the military. He's not the kind of guy to do the dirty work himself.
It certainly lends credibility to Michael Cohen's remarks about Trump's indirect way of getting people to do what he wants:

Quote:
Mr. Trump did not directly tell me to lie to Congress. That's not how he operates.

In conversations we had during the campaign, at the same time I was actively negotiating in Russia for him, he would look me in the eye and tell me there's no business in Russia and then go out and lie to the American people by saying the same thing. In his way, he was telling me to lie.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/27/mich...rump-here.html
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:44 PM
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If you are unclear on the subtle interplay between facts and opinions, and how an opinion piece may contain facts, that’s pretty amazing. Thank you for sharing that! Now back to the thread.
I know when an opinion piece contains unverified facts.
  #11  
Old 03-14-2019, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
Your link is CLEARLY labelled an opinion piece. Do you have a factual cite?
There's an accompanying video at the same link in which Anderson Cooper interviews Mr. Lockhart (the author of the piece) and Cooper seems to accept that Trump actually said the remarks attributed to him. Did you somehow miss this? It's right there at the top of the page.

If you think one or both of them is wrong or lying, you are welcome to provide specific evidence that this is so.
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Old 03-14-2019, 11:44 PM
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There's an accompanying video at the same link in which Anderson Cooper interviews Mr. Lockhart (the author of the piece) and Cooper seems to accept that Trump actually said the remarks attributed to him.
And Robin Roberts seemed to accept what Jussie Smollet said. We know how that's turning out.

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If you think one or both of them is wrong or lying, you are welcome to provide specific evidence that this is so.
That's not how it works. The person making the claim, Mr. Lockhart, and by extension, the OP, have to back up their claims, not just throw shit out there.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:29 AM
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Well, I can see then that Trump still has the Mierdas touch, in this case it can even turn any trust that a right winger might had about Breitbart into shit.
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Old 03-15-2019, 04:08 AM
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He didn't say what he said and someone entirely different said something else once upon a time!

Please keep these pathetic and ridiculous attempts at spin coming. Pretty soon we'll be told that Trump isn't actually the president all the time. Just certain times. Not during interviews. Or on Thursdays. JUSSIE SMOLLETT1!!1!!!
  #15  
Old 03-15-2019, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by D'Anconia View Post
That's not how it works. The person making the claim, Mr. Lockhart, and by extension, the OP, have to back up their claims, not just throw shit out there.
The 'claim', if any, is that Trump made remarks that appear to threaten political opponents, during an interview with Breitbart. The facts seem to support this. You, OTOH, seem to be arguing that Breitbart made up the Trump quote. You must have some reason for doing so. Let's hear it.

Last edited by El_Kabong; 03-15-2019 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:59 AM
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So that we can skip over all the silliness about the source of the information, here are the actual words Trump said:

"I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of Bikers for Trump -- I have tough people, but they don't play it tough until they go to a certain point and then it would be very, very bad."

That seems entirely reasonable to criticize as an implied threat of violence. No one can read minds, so we have to evaluate words... and I think it's reasonable to see these words as an implied threat of violence. If Trump meant something else he should withdraw these words and apologize.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by El_Kabong View Post
The 'claim', if any, is that Trump made remarks that appear to threaten political opponents, during an interview with Breitbart. The facts seem to support this. You, OTOH, seem to be arguing that Breitbart made up the Trump quote. You must have some reason for doing so. Let's hear it.
He has a strict policy to discount anything reported by the right-wing media unless it's corroborated by HuffPo, Democracy Now! and Mother Jones.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by El_Kabong View Post
The 'claim', if any, is that Trump made remarks that appear to threaten political opponents, during an interview with Breitbart. The facts seem to support this. You, OTOH, seem to be arguing that Breitbart made up the Trump quote. You must have some reason for doing so. Let's hear it.
The quote seems to fit Trump's speaking style and he has made similar statements as president that appear to be indirect threats in the way a narcissistic parent trying to emotionally blackmail a child would, so much so that my reaction when I heard was to wonder if there weren't several other items happening yesterday of greater significance.

I can't stop laughing. This is just too funny, the idea Breitbart would fabricate such a quote.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:27 AM
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So that we can skip over all the silliness about the source of the information, here are the actual words Trump said:

"I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of Bikers for Trump -- I have tough people, but they don't play it tough until they go to a certain point and then it would be very, very bad."

That seems entirely reasonable to criticize as an implied threat of violence. No one can read minds, so we have to evaluate words... and I think it's reasonable to see these words as an implied threat of violence. If Trump meant something else he should withdraw these words and apologize.
I would be floored if he clarified what he meant or apologized.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:42 AM
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The quote seems to fit Trump's speaking style and he has made similar statements as president that appear to be indirect threats in the way a narcissistic parent trying to emotionally blackmail a child would, so much so that my reaction when I heard was to wonder if there weren't several other items happening yesterday of greater significance.

I can't stop laughing. This is just too funny, the idea Breitbart would fabricate such a quote.
Yeah, the whole notion is silly beyond words, and I'm truly sorry for my part in extending D'Anconia's ridiculous attempted hijack.

Regarding the actual thread subject, it is rather telling that so much utter nonsense spews out of Trump's piehole on a daily basis that this near-incitement to riot only slightly rises above the background noise.

As with so many other of Trump's statements, it is amusing to imagine the reaction if Obama had ever suggested that he had the support of, say, Black Lives Matter and that they would have no choice but to 'play it tough' if provoked.

Last edited by El_Kabong; 03-15-2019 at 07:43 AM.
  #21  
Old 03-15-2019, 07:44 AM
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I would be floored if he clarified what he meant or apologized.
So would I, but I'm trying my best to look at it objectively as I would for any politician. As silly as this may be when considering an incompetent, malevolent buffoon like Trump.
  #22  
Old 03-15-2019, 07:47 AM
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It's no different from his "Second Amendment people" threat. But it doesn't mean anything more than that, it's just his usual bluster to the usual deplorables.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:48 AM
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So the SDMB is accepting Breitbart as factual, now?

Good to know!
They are not accepting Breitbart as factual - they are accepting the CNN opinion piece as factual. Namely that Trump is threatening his political opponents with violence. Trump was actually speaking about how the left uses violence and intimidation to suppress free speech, and said that his supporters don't respond in kind.

But CNN has told them what to think, and that ends it except for the shouting.

Regards,
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:54 AM
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Exactly! He wasn't threatening his opponents— he was threatening his strawman opponents.
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:55 AM
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Try to keep up with those goalposts, people!
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Old 03-15-2019, 08:06 AM
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Funny (sad funny) to see so many people leaping to give the benefit of the doubt to Trump, who has explicitly praised and encouraged violence on multiple occasions.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 03-15-2019 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:00 AM
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I can't remember where I saw it, but some have speculated the comment was inspired by the actions of Maduro's motorcycle gang as he refuses to peacefully transfer power.

Last edited by Try2B Comprehensive; 03-15-2019 at 09:01 AM.
  #28  
Old 03-15-2019, 09:23 AM
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Funny (sad funny) to see so many people leaping to give the benefit of the doubt to Trump, who has explicitly praised and encouraged violence on multiple occasions.
What doubt?
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:29 AM
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They are not accepting Breitbart as factual - they are accepting the CNN opinion piece as factual. Namely that Trump is threatening his political opponents with violence. Trump was actually speaking about how the left uses violence and intimidation to suppress free speech, and said that his supporters don't respond in kind.

But CNN has told them what to think, and that ends it except for the shouting.

Regards,
Shodan
You might have a point if there were instances of the left using violence and intimidation to suppress free speech. I admire your flexibility in contorting yourself into a pretzel to justify Dear Leader's mob tactics.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:06 AM
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They are not accepting Breitbart as factual - they are accepting the CNN opinion piece as factual. Namely that Trump is threatening his political opponents with violence. Trump was actually speaking about how the left uses violence and intimidation to suppress free speech, and said that his supporters don't respond in kind.

But CNN has told them what to think, and that ends it except for the shouting.

Regards,
Shodan
Oh, please.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trump
“I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump — I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad.”
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:49 AM
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That's the shouting.

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Shodan
  #32  
Old 03-15-2019, 11:53 AM
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Oh, please.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trump
“I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump — I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad.”

Trump explicitly, clearly, obviously threatened violence from his supporters, including police and military. There is no way someone can twist this into Trump saying "his supporters don't respond in kind. " It's quite clearly the opposite of this.

Anyone who posts an excuse like this on behalf of Trump is being deliberately obtuse, and is a disgusting, amoral pathetic excuse for a human being.
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:58 AM
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You might have a point if there were instances of the left using violence and intimidation to suppress free speech. I admire your flexibility in contorting yourself into a pretzel to justify Dear Leader's mob tactics.
Is that sarcasm or satire or something?
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:02 PM
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That's the shouting.

Regards,

Shodan
Trump's doing the shouting? Well, I can certainly agree on that.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:06 PM
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That's the shouting.

Regards,
Shodan
Trump has indeed loudly encouraged and praised violence on numerous occasions. I'd say it's certainly reasonable to call some of that encouragement/praise of violence "shouting".

That's what you mean, right?

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 03-15-2019 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:28 PM
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That's the shouting.

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Shodan
Huh? Those are Trumps words.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:32 PM
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Is that sarcasm or satire or something?
Your surety that something exists in and of itself is not evidence that it does indeed exist. If you have any evidence, it would be nice to see it.

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Old 03-15-2019, 12:52 PM
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Huh? Those are Trumps words.
You realize in Trumpworld, even a video recording showing him saying something like this is still "fake news", right?
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:25 PM
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Your surety that something exists in and of itself is not evidence that it does indeed exist. If you have any evidence, it would be nice to see it.
Lol. That can’t be a serious post. With 59,000 posts you’ve been around long enough to know that there are many instances of the so-called left using violence to suppress speech.

Last edited by octopus; 03-15-2019 at 01:26 PM.
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:31 PM
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They are not accepting Breitbart as factual - they are accepting the CNN opinion piece as factual. Namely that Trump is threatening his political opponents with violence. Trump was actually speaking about how the left uses violence and intimidation to suppress free speech, and said that his supporters don't respond in kind.

But CNN has told them what to think, and that ends it except for the shouting.

Regards,
Shodan
This is a very interesting perspective. I suspect that many of the members of this board are capable of reading an opinion piece, teasing out out the direct claims that underpin that opinion, and then review those sources - especially since they tend to be helpfully hyperlinked.

Of course, it also appears that there are some board members that lack this capability, and mistakenly view opinion pieces as "reporting" and cannot separate the perspective from the underlying facts. I suspect that this ability may have atrophied due to prolonged exposure to right-wing websites where "facts" are largely irrelevant, or contrived.
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:36 PM
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Lol. That can’t be a serious post. With 59,000 posts you’ve been around long enough to know that there are many instances of the so-called left using violence to suppress speech.
Surely you'd be able to provide a few, if they in fact exist.


What a fantasy world the right lives in- Donald says something in an interview with a VERY friendly "media" outlet and he is called out using his exact words as inciting violence. Nobody from the White House or Breitbart has questioned the authenticity of the quote. Yet because this quote appeared in an opinion piece it is to be questioned.
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:37 PM
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Lol. That can’t be a serious post. With 59,000 posts you’ve been around long enough to know that there are many instances of the so-called left using violence to suppress speech.
Your claim, bubula-step right up and back it up.
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Old 03-15-2019, 01:48 PM
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Lol. That can’t be a serious post. With 59,000 posts you’ve been around long enough to know that there are many instances of the so-called left using violence to suppress speech.
Only a fraction of the violence committed by the right, though.
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:40 PM
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So the SDMB is accepting Breitbart as factual, now?

Good to know!
The quote has been verified by several sources. What it means- yes, you can question Breitbart. But IMHO they are not as bad as FOX.

Do you have a reason to doubt trump said this? Maybe a Snopes article that debunks it?
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:42 PM
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I remember reading about when the president physically threatened a Washington Post reporter because he didn't like a review that was published.

President Truman, that is.
....
"whataboutism".
  #46  
Old 03-15-2019, 02:42 PM
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Surely you'd be able to provide a few, if they in fact exist.
The most notorious couple of examples would do.

And some of them, I'm sure, are good people.
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:43 PM
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...


That's not how it works. The person making the claim, Mr. Lockhart, and by extension, the OP, have to back up their claims, not just throw shit out there.
They did. Now it's your turn to come up with a cite that debunks it.
  #48  
Old 03-15-2019, 02:52 PM
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Surely you'd be able to provide a few, if they in fact exist.


What a fantasy world the right lives in- Donald says something in an interview with a VERY friendly "media" outlet and he is called out using his exact words as inciting violence. Nobody from the White House or Breitbart has questioned the authenticity of the quote. Yet because this quote appeared in an opinion piece it is to be questioned.
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Originally Posted by Czarcasm View Post
Your claim, bubula-step right up and back it up.
I have no compelling reason to link anything that you two have already seen in multiple threads on this very forum. Feigned ignorance is accomplishing what?
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Old 03-15-2019, 03:10 PM
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I have no compelling reason to link anything that you two have already seen in multiple threads on this very forum. Feigned ignorance is accomplishing what?
It would have been a bit less embarrassing for you if you had only just stayed away, instead of posting that you you couldn't come up with anything-at least the former might have indicated that you were too busy to respond.
  #50  
Old 03-15-2019, 03:15 PM
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It would have been a bit less embarrassing for you if you had only just stayed away, instead of posting that you you couldn't come up with anything-at least the former might have indicated that you were too busy to respond.
Maybe you two can take this to another thread, and the rest of use could get back to the OP?
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