View Poll Results: Which do you consider yourself to be?
Oppressed 17 10.83%
Privileged 140 89.17%
Voters: 157. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 03-18-2019, 12:02 PM
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Are you privileged or oppressed?


Just a straight-up poll. Most people, of course, have some overlap in this area - they are privileged in some ways and oppressed in some others, but the only way a poll like this can be done is to force a binary choice, otherwise the polling wouldn't work.

("Privilege" and "oppression" completely defined as you see fit, for the purposes of the poll)
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Old 03-18-2019, 12:23 PM
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I'm a white, male, hetero-sexual American. You can't get much more privileged than that.
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Old 03-18-2019, 12:25 PM
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I voted "privileged". I'm relatively poor, but that's not due to some outside force holding me back.
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Old 03-18-2019, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
I'm a white, male, hetero-sexual American. You can't get much more privileged than that.
Sure you can. Being rich, good looking, having caring/loving parents, intelligent, tall, family with lot of connections, living in economically thriving area.

There are plenty of white, male, hetero-sexual American with completely crappy lives due to no fault of their own. It is not the end-all be-all of privilege.
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Old 03-18-2019, 12:46 PM
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the only way a poll like this can be done is to force a binary choice, otherwise the polling wouldn't work.
Just last week there was a huge example of people conflating one type of privilege with another, when some of those same people had been saying for years that we should not be doing exactly what they did.
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:24 PM
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Well...I'm an older Hispanic male, so I guess a case could be made that I'm 'oppressed'. However, I'm in the top 2-3% wrt income and assets, so...privileged? My kids are pretty much fully integrated into the US, go to or went to college, generally after a stint in the military first, and we live a solid upper middle class lifestyle and should be able to retire by 65 at the latest, assuming the world doesn't end or we have some very bad luck.

This of course hasn't been the case for my entire life, so I guess, um, I was oppressed when I was younger, threw off the shackles of my oppression (well, my parents really did) and became privileged, or maybe I'm one of the oppressors now?
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:31 PM
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Sure you can. Being rich, good looking, having caring/loving parents, intelligent, tall, family with lot of connections, living in economically thriving area.

There are plenty of white, male, hetero-sexual American with completely crappy lives due to no fault of their own. It is not the end-all be-all of privilege.
I think you're overestimating what privilege is. Chances are the crappy life of a straight white male is still going to be a lot better than the crappy life of a gay black man or a Hispanic woman.
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:34 PM
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Just last week there was a huge example of people conflating one type of privilege with another, when some of those same people had been saying for years that we should not be doing exactly what they did.
What are you referring to?
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:48 PM
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I'm not so sure it's a binary choice like that. Seems to me that there are a lot of ways that someone could be oppressed or privileged, and they're not necessarily exclusive.

I'm reminded of a friend of mine- white, upper middle class male with a STEM degree, a good job and a loving, smart and stable spouse. Sounds awfully privileged, right? He also happens to be gay. Do you think he's oppressed now?

And I don't think it's like a points system either- straight +1, male +1, upper middle class +2, black -1, gay -1, etc... Mostly because that's just absurd.
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:51 PM
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I think you're overestimating what privilege is. Chances are the crappy life of a straight white male is still going to be a lot better than the crappy life of a gay black man or a Hispanic woman.
For starters, women get about 5 more years of life than men, on average, so that's one bit of privilege they get that I don't. I don't think that makes me "oppressed" necessarily, but this is just an illustration of why trying to lump people into sweeping black-and-white categories of victims and oppressors doesn't work well.
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:58 PM
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Sure you can. Being rich, good looking, having caring/loving parents, intelligent, tall, family with lot of connections, living in economically thriving area.
Sorry, but a rich, good looking, having caring/loving parents, intelligent, tall, family with a lot of connections, living in economically thriving area black guy still gets followed in a store and pulled over for "DWB".

I don't.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:05 PM
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Not to derail the thread, but do cops really have the good-enough eyesight to spot which race/ethnicity a driver is, from behind the driver, when the driver is in the car, from a distance of perhaps dozens of yards behind?

For the driving-while-black theorists.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:12 PM
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Both, quite seriously.

if I really really have to pick, I'm a lot more privileged than oppressed compared with the genuine teeming millions who are denizens of this world, and a bit more privileged than the average American citizen, so I'd have to pick "privileged". But I'm on the wrong end of some those nasty categorical oppressions and they've defined my life to a large extent.

ETA: that is one of the things that intersectionality is about. The above is true for a lot more people than it isn't. No one should assume the person they meet has no personal familiarity with oppression, nor kid themselves that they have privilege.

Last edited by AHunter3; 03-18-2019 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by manson1972 View Post
Sorry, but a rich, good looking, having caring/loving parents, intelligent, tall, family with a lot of connections, living in economically thriving area black guy still gets followed in a store and pulled over for "DWB".

I don't.
Even if that's true, about 99% of the time getting pulled over is nothing more than a minor inconvenience.

Making it all (or even primarily) about race is stupid. Barack Obama / Tiger Woods / Oprah Winfrey are immensely more "privileged" than 99% of white people.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
Not to derail the thread, but do cops really have the good-enough eyesight to spot which race/ethnicity a driver is, from behind the driver, when the driver is in the car, from a distance of perhaps dozens of yards behind?

For the driving-while-black theorists.
Was it your impression that the only time people are pulled over is when cars are observed, while moving, from another moving vehicle (cop car) dozens of yards behind them? If that was your impression, then let it be corrected -- there are many instances in which a cop might see individual features of a driver prior to deciding to pull them over. The most common might be cops on the side of the road, waiting for signs or evidence of behavior they deem worthy of their attention (which may or may not include "driving while black"), and then pulling into traffic and pulling over their target.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:14 PM
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Compared to who?
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:23 PM
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I'm not so sure it's a binary choice like that. Seems to me that there are a lot of ways that someone could be oppressed or privileged, and they're not necessarily exclusive.

I'm reminded of a friend of mine- white, upper middle class male with a STEM degree, a good job and a loving, smart and stable spouse. Sounds awfully privileged, right? He also happens to be gay. Do you think he's oppressed now?

And I don't think it's like a points system either- straight +1, male +1, upper middle class +2, black -1, gay -1, etc... Mostly because that's just absurd.
I'm not an expert on these things, but I think that's what "intersectionality" is meant to cover. A homeless gay white man will have different type of issues than a rich African-American woman. And, then "intersectionality" became a snarl word on the right and is used to mock people who try to understand the problems your friend may encounter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
Not to derail the thread, but do cops really have the good-enough eyesight to spot which race/ethnicity a driver is, from behind the driver, when the driver is in the car, from a distance of perhaps dozens of yards behind?

For the driving-while-black theorists.
Yes. For example, twenty years ago, the NJ State Police agreed to a consent decree because of exactly that: https://www.aclu-nj.org/theissues/po...artmentandstat

ETA: For me, privileged. Straight white upper middle class male, happily married, homeowner, etc.

Last edited by RitterSport; 03-18-2019 at 02:24 PM.
  #18  
Old 03-18-2019, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
Even if that's true, about 99% of the time getting pulled over is nothing more than a minor inconvenience.

Making it all (or even primarily) about race is stupid. Barack Obama / Tiger Woods / Oprah Winfrey are immensely more "privileged" than 99% of white people.
Sure, because being "rich" makes you "privileged"

I don't need to be rich to be privileged. My innate features already do that for me.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:42 PM
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Compared to who?
The OP doesn't specify, but I'd offer up for consideration that perhaps we should look at where we find ourselves situated compared to the average American.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:43 PM
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Sorry, but a rich, good looking, having caring/loving parents, intelligent, tall, family with a lot of connections, living in economically thriving area black guy still gets followed in a store and pulled over for "DWB".

I don't.
I guess it all goes down to how privilege is defined.

I define it as more like "What are my chances to have a happy, stable successful life."

To me, the the items that top the priviledge list are growing up having a healthy, stable, loving, two-parent family. Your parents had good enough jobs that they are able to spend time with you and heavily emphasize education and achievement. These are HUGE. With that steady foundation, life is so so much easier.

Last edited by Hermitian; 03-18-2019 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:46 PM
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Of course then you have to define "happy, stable successful life"
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Old 03-18-2019, 02:54 PM
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I'm a white, male, hetero-sexual American. You can't get much more privileged than that.
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Originally Posted by Hermitian View Post
Sure you can. Being rich, good looking, having caring/loving parents, intelligent, tall, family with lot of connections, living in economically thriving area.

There are plenty of white, male, hetero-sexual American with completely crappy lives due to no fault of their own. It is not the end-all be-all of privilege.
I'm a white, male, tall, intelligent, had caring/loving parents who left me a not-insignificant amount of money, almost by chance ended up working 34 years for a company with good pensions, live in economically thriving (i.e. expensive) area.

Not heterosexual, not rich (I'd call it "comfortable"), not good-looking.

On the whole, very privileged, and that's how I voted.
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:01 PM
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:21 PM
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Gay, male, Jewish/atheist, very chronically depressed, survivor of open heart surgery with severe spinal stenosis. Extremely diabetic. Survivor of abusive father. Have a gorgeous and totally devoted husband.

All in all, I'd say privileged.
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:27 PM
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... To me, the the items that top the priviledge list are growing up having a healthy, stable, loving, two-parent family. Your parents had good enough jobs that they are able to spend time with you and heavily emphasize education and achievement. These are HUGE. With that steady foundation, life is so so much easier.
I agree with this. 2-loving-parents "privilege" appears to be worth WAY more than privilege tied to one's gender, race, or sexual orientation. Wealth and health probably rank a good bit above those other ones too.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 03-18-2019 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:29 PM
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... very privileged, and that's how I voted.
What do you mean by this?
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:46 PM
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Even if that's true, about 99% of the time getting pulled over is nothing more than a minor inconvenience.
How many times have you been pulled over for just driving? It happened all the time to me in Boston while I was in college. Long hair and big car did it. I was not scared because I was white and possibly a rich college kid, so the cop had to treat me with at least some respect, but I can imagine it being a bit more nerve-wracking if you are in a group not treated with as much respect.
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:48 PM
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What do you mean by this?
I assume he means that he voted for "privileged" in the poll.

Last edited by Hermitian; 03-18-2019 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 03-18-2019, 03:57 PM
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What do you mean by this?
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I assume he means that he voted for "privileged" in the poll.
Yes, that's what I meant. Are you (HD) so politically-focused that you can't grasp the context of this thread?
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Old 03-18-2019, 04:03 PM
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Privileged. I am a middle aged man in a developed country, educated, employed, a member of the titular ethnicity of my country, hetero, cis, not disabled.

That I am married can hardly offset the above.
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Old 03-18-2019, 04:05 PM
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How many times have you been pulled over for just driving? ...
I don't know what this means. I've been pulled over maybe a dozen times in my life. In every one of those cases, the cop had some official reason even if I thought it was bullshit (I assume that's the case with the alleged "DWB" pull-overs too, right?). Does that mean my answer should be "all of them" or "zero"?

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... I was not scared because I was white and possibly a rich college kid, so the cop had to treat me with at least some respect...
You think cops can't / won't be disrespectful to white people? Or did you just believe that back in college? Here's a little secret: cops shoot plenty of white people too.
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Old 03-18-2019, 04:07 PM
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I assume he means that he voted for "privileged" in the poll.
Thanks.
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Yes, that's what I meant. ...
Thanks.

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... Are you (HD) so politically-focused that you can't grasp the context of this thread?
I didn't immediately realize what you meant (although in hindsight it should have been rather obvious), so I figured it would be better to ask than wonder. I'll leave it up to you to form your own opinion about whether that means I'm "so politically-focused that [I] can't grasp the context of this thread" or not.
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Old 03-18-2019, 04:09 PM
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If they feel like sharing, I'd be very interested in hearing from the four (at this point) respondents who said they were "Oppressed". What made you choose that classification?
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Old 03-18-2019, 04:15 PM
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I'm a white, male, hetero-sexual American so I do have that going for me.

On the other hand, I am in poor mental and physical health bad enough that I live off disability which, of course, also means I am living in poverty. I am also on the unattractive side as well. So if I had choose, I pick oppressed.
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Old 03-18-2019, 04:20 PM
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I think you're overestimating what privilege is. Chances are the crappy life of a straight white male is still going to be a lot better than the crappy life of a gay black man or a Hispanic woman.
This is exactly the kind of argument that hacks people off about intersectionality, or talk about privilege - because you're treating wealth privilege or stable-family privilege like they're "not a thing" by overwhelming them with a veritable cascade of anti-privileges.

"If you're missing out on wealth privilege and stable family privilege AND ALSO missing out on race privilege, straight/cis privilege and gender privilege, then your life will be worse than if you're missing out on just wealth and stable family privileges".

Well, yeah, no shit, obviously this is true. Also obviously it doesn't prove that these two privileges aren't real privileges - you have to do an actual balanced comparison to get a sense of this. So...

What would you rather get - shitty unstable parents but you're straight, or great stable parents but you're gay? I'd go option 2 personally - stable family is worth quite a lot of privilege points for me. On the other hand "unstable shitty parents + cis" versus "great stable parents vs trans" - at that point, I'm voting option 1 - being trans sounds hard.

"Rich and female" versus "poor and male"? "Rich and black" versus "poor and white"? Reasonable people could differ - I'm definitely going for option 1 on the first of these though.

I assume, btw, that the only things that count as 'privileges' are anything you didn't work for in any way. So ... grew up in a shack but now a millionaire? Don't have wealth privilege. Mum's an alcoholic who beat you but you're now in a great relationship with a fantastic spouse? Don't have stable family privilege. And so on.
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  #36  
Old 03-18-2019, 04:24 PM
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I'm privileged because I'm a white male. (My heterosexuality isn't doing much for me right now.)

I'm also pretty well off financially due to my job, but I don't consider my job to be the result of privilege, beyond the baseline advantage I have due to being a white male.
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:36 PM
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I'm not an expert on these things, but I think that's what "intersectionality" is meant to cover. A homeless gay white man will have different type of issues than a rich African-American woman. And, then "intersectionality" became a snarl word on the right and is used to mock people who try to understand the problems your friend may encounter.
Based on what I read, intersectionality is exactly what I describe with the points system- it's a way to try and quantify relative oppression/privilege.

Which to me anyway, is kind of absurd. It must become some kind of pissing contest- "I'm a midget lesbian! I'm more oppressed than you!" "No you're not- I'm disabled in three ways!"

I don't know.. while I understand the concept of relative privilege (that's what "privilege" really is), I think it's best treated as a relatively academic concept. Using it as a club to belittle someone's accomplishments, or discount their opinions or views is wrong. Just because someone may be privileged, it doesn't automatically make them or their views less valid, and that's where a lot of this talk tends to go, at least online.
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:56 PM
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:34 PM
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I'm a white, male, hetero-sexual American. You can't get much more privileged than that.
Here I fixed it for you....

I'm a white, male, hetero-sexual Australian. You can't get much more privileged than that.
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:41 PM
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Straight white male, grew up in an upper middle class neighborhood where practically all the parents had been to college, and it was pretty much assumed that all us kids would.

Sure, you had to do some work to get into college, and then turn that into an upper middle class career, but not all that much. Privileged? Hell yeah.
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Old 03-18-2019, 09:44 PM
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I oppress myself. I grew up with parents who loved us, lots of sibs. It wasn't perfect. But it was nice. I married good man, I have great kids. I can do and get what I want/need. Love my pets. Love my volunteer work.
I oppress myself by being agoraphobic. I tend to stay in my comfort zone. I try to push the boundaries everyday. Sometimes I'm successful. Mostly not.
At this point I will not fly or travel very far. I don't like crowds, public places or wide open spaces, either. Certain noises and smells send me running.
I'm privileged to know this about myself. I do work on it, daily. I'm mostly happy.
I didn't vote, I'm not sure where I'd fit.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:16 PM
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A lot of the posts seem to be answering whether the person is fortunate or unfortunate, or giving examples who would be more fortunate, etc. Being fortunate or unfortunate doesn't mean you necessarily are privileged or being oppressed, unfortunate and oppressed being especially far from the same thing. It might be more arguable that you are 'privileged' to eg. be born into a good family with above average looks, intelligence. etc. But lately that term has been co-opted to mainly mean race or other group affiliation, the effect of which on life outcomes is very possible to overstate IMO, whereas OTOH a lot of people now insist you are 'privileged' by belonging to a certain group, end of story, in which case it shouldn't be necessary to ask people whether they are privileged, it would follow automatically from their group membership, in that worldview at least.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:25 PM
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These questions are completely inane without taking intersectionality into account. OP fail.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:26 PM
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I should be out there grinding widows and orphans under my heels, passing laws against minorities, dumping sewage in the reservoirs, cheating and lying and grifting in every direction in order to further line my pockets.

Sadly, my main ambition is to sit in a comfortable room and read books. With good tobacco and whiskey within reach.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:30 PM
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im a white cis male, born in a pow camp after my mother was raped and eventually killed by the viet cong, where i was tortured and starved on and off for 15 years, escaped and by the time i was 23 years old, finally learned how to read.

i dont own a car or a home, i have two sets of clothing and i make less than $12,000 a year.

so very privileged, actually. all you need is the right skin colour and equipment downstairs, and youre basically set for life. though sometimes i wish i could understand the hardships of others. since a lack of melanin and estrogen basically makes you into a sociopath, my interest in human suffering is a purely intellectual endeavour-- it is no substitute for experiencing real oppression. i spend my days on the golf course at the country club-- sure, i cant afford the fees. but if you vote for trump they wave them. (i keep telling them thats election fraud, but they just laugh.)

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Old 03-18-2019, 10:51 PM
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im a white cis male, born in a pow camp after my mother was raped and eventually killed by the viet cong, where i was tortured and starved on and off for 15 years, escaped and by the time i was 23 years old, finally learned how to read.

i dont own a car or a home, i have two sets of clothing and i make less than $12,000 a year.

so very privileged, actually. )

The sad part is, you *think* you're shitposting but the living situation you describe, the one you evidently think is the most horrible (fluent in English, two sets of clothes, a paying job that while considered poor still lets you live without being hungry and rent a small apartment with water & heat in any large Western city, which implicitly includes access to the internet and modern healthcare) is still leagues ahead of what 80% of people on this planet get to live with.
So yes. Even in that hilaaarious scenario, you'd be very privileged.
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Last edited by Kobal2; 03-18-2019 at 10:51 PM.
  #47  
Old 03-18-2019, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RickJay View Post
White, male, able-bodied, heterosexual, middle class, born in Canada. I am playing the video game of life on the tutorial difficulty setting.

*narrows eyes* *looks both ways* YOINK !
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  #48  
Old 03-18-2019, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Kobal2 View Post
which implicitly includes access to the internet and modern healthcare) is still leagues ahead of what 80% of people on this planet get to live with.
So yes. Even in that hilaaarious scenario, you'd be very privileged.
but youre moving the bar--

because some of the above post is exaggerated, and some of it is simply fabricated, but the fact that privilege is spoken of most often by people who are far more well-to-do than i will likely ever be, in the same western country we are both thinking of.

so yes, you think i think im shitposting, but im actually calling out the deeply and most unusually privileged talking about privilege.

now, the white cis male part-- sure. thats true. i had a transgender sjw come to my wedding to keep me informed of all the things i didnt understand. he (his preferred pronoun, and all i ever knew him as anyway) wouldnt miss an opportunity to school me on all the ways in which some people were privileged and others were oppressed.

but all in all its a lot more reasonable (seems nuanced) in the context of marxism, while from here it seems like more of a ridiculous pissing match and ad hom fallacy glorified into a complete ideology of its own.

i eat about a meal a day, i eat a lot of rice, and pretty much everyone here is more privileged than most of the chinese.

lets not adopt their style of government. i dont mean communism-- i mean anything china does-- lets consider not doing that.

if youre going to move the bar, pretty much all the people talking about oppression are privileged. if youre going to make my point for me, i should just say thank you. but i thought id clarify.

Last edited by customdistro; 03-18-2019 at 11:03 PM.
  #49  
Old 03-18-2019, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by begbert2 View Post
I'm privileged because I'm a white male. (My heterosexuality isn't doing much for me right now.)
They make pills for that.
  #50  
Old 03-18-2019, 11:20 PM
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I was born in an American family that had slightly above average income for the country, and thus was way above average for the world. I remain in a middle class American household. Thus I consider myself privileged. Privileged means wealthy. Middle class Americans are wealthy by world standards.

I've also used countless wonderful technologies in my lifetime that didn't exist two centuries ago. That could be considered another type of privilege.

I do not take concepts like "white privilege", "male privilege", etc... seriously.
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