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Old 03-21-2019, 12:14 PM
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Things that the "other side" misunderstands about your side


In the other "Democrats trying to understand rural voters" thread, one poster had this to say:

Quote:
How about a swap. Democrats will try to understand the life experiences of white Rural voters if Republicans try to understand, the life experiences of LGBTQ people, people of color, undocumented immigrants, Muslims etc. .......So in terms of understanding the other side, please remove the log from your own eye before you criticize the speck in ours.
Since the 2016 election, there have been a spate of articles about how "urban coastal elite" liberals fail to understand flyover America, etc. (not surprising since the R's won - usually the post-election aftermath is about how the losing side needs to understand the winning side more, etc.) So as to not derail the other thread, I thought it would be fair to have an omnibus "Misconceptions that Ds and Rs have about each other" thread.

To start off, since there's been plenty of talk about rural flyover America - what are things that rural America do not understand about urban liberals?
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:18 PM
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Other stuff:

1. Most illegal immigrants don't commit crimes, because they have incentive to keep their heads low due to the risk of deportation.

2. Most women who get abortions don't want an abortion (in the sense of, nobody enjoys it - they get one because they perceive it as being better than the alternative of carrying the pregnancy of term.)
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
To start off, since there's been plenty of talk about rural flyover America - what are things that rural America do not understand about urban liberals?
Is one of them not understanding that urban liberals don't care what consenting adults do with each other?
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:25 PM
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Most pro-choice people are not pro-abortion. We just think abortion should be legal, and women who get them should not be harassed. Nobody should force a woman to have an abortion or continue with a pregnancy.
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Velocity View Post
To start off, since there's been plenty of talk about rural flyover America - what are things that rural America do not understand about urban liberals?
That they don't call rural America "flyover country": or at least, if they do, they do it far, far, less than the political parties call each other Nazi and/or Communist. Which isn't to say urban liberals think about rural America at all, or even that they tend to have positive stereotypes about it, but when they do consider them, they don't use such a hackneyed, strawman phrase.
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:30 PM
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Most pro-choice people are not pro-abortion. We just think abortion should be legal, and women who get them should not be harassed. Nobody should force a woman to have an abortion or continue with a pregnancy.
Also, we're not generally big on murdering infants.

Also, we're generally not in favor of turning the US into Stalinist Russia.

Also, we're not NPCs.

...Hang on, you could write a book on this shit. (And then slap Bill Maher's name on the title line and nobody, not even him, would be able to tell he didn't write it.)
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Old 03-21-2019, 12:37 PM
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That we DO realize immigration issues look different if you live in a border town and gun issues look different if you live on a 60 acre farm with no neighbors nearby. It’s just that the way we deal with those issues affects everyone.

This means that what are sometimes considered “common sense” solutions (build the wall, no new gun laws) often lack nuance, and we need to listen to bigger picture evidence that sometimes leads us to actions that won’t always please everybody.
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Old 03-21-2019, 01:36 PM
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Don't we harass almost all the conservatives off this board? It's going to be a one sided conversation.
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:14 PM
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We don't want health care to be FREE, we want to pool our money (as taxes) to a large no-for-profit organization (the US government) to provide affordable (not-for-profit) care for all people (US citizens) regardless of their employment status in a non-confusing (universal for all US citizens) way.

Needing a job to have health care is insane (the ACA helped with that), and having to support for-profit businesses to get healthcare is even more insane.
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:08 PM
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Dems don't hate rich people.

"Socialism": We don't think brain surgeons and burger flippers should make the same amount of pay.
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:28 PM
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Dems don't hate rich people.

"Socialism": We don't think brain surgeons and burger flippers should make the same amount of pay.
Democrats, by and large, are not Socialists. No, not even Bernie Sanders is a Socialist. Socialism has an actual meaning in Political Science circles, and a 95% top marginal tax rate ain't it.

Every time someone says "All Democrats want to confiscate your guns" replace it with "All Republicans want to outlaw Islam and force everyone to become Southern Baptist" and realize how foolish it sounds.

When we were campaigning for marriage equality, we honestly weren't thinking about how angry some religious people would be. We were thinking about how happy a large number of GLBTQ people would be.

Trans rights doesn't mean shoving people into surgery and hormone therapy.
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:30 PM
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It seems to me that there is a lot of failure to distinguish between legal immigration and illegal immigration. One side seems to think all immigration is good and the other that any immigration is bad.
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Grrr! View Post
Dems don't hate rich people.

"Socialism": We don't think brain surgeons and burger flippers should make the same amount of pay.
But we do think that both the brain surgeon and the burger flipper should have access to food, clothing , shelter, healthcare, and education for them and their children.
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:32 PM
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If I have to pay my federal taxes, so should Amazon, and all the other corporate evaders.
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:44 PM
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"Things that the "other side" misunderstands about your side" Pretty much everything. The problem isn't what they think, the problem is what they think we think.
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:49 PM
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Dems don't want to destroy capitalism; they want to save it (and the rest of us) from its excesses. Just what Roosevelt did. True socialists (I have known a couple and one of my favorite Sci-Fi writes has a blog advocating true socialism and really dislikes Sanders for that reason.

I certainly sympathize with the people from the coal mining regions but I fail to understand why they are still enthusiastic supporters of a president who is trying as hard as possible to take away what little they do get from the government. Can they really believe that those coal-mining jobs are coming back? Or that Trump gives a shit what happens to them?
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:58 PM
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More liberals have guns than they think.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:02 PM
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More liberals go to church than they think.
More liberals have blue collar jobs than they think.
More liberals go deer hunting with their sons than they think.
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:53 PM
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Dems don't worship Hillary Clinton. That's not the reason that we are unhappy that Trump was elected as the President of the USA. Not even close.
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:32 PM
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Free-market capitalist types need to understand that supply and demand works in many cases, but not all, in providing goods and services. There are not many things people will willingly give everything they have and more for, but to get well, stay alive, or just feel better, they will. The healthcare industry knows this in all its layers and will continue to take everything as long as it is allowed.

Because of this, free-market capitalism will never provide affordable healthcare for all.
  #21  
Old 03-21-2019, 09:40 PM
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They are about 0.2 conservatives left here.
What’s the point of this thread again?
  #22  
Old 03-21-2019, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jebert View Post
It seems to me that there is a lot of failure to distinguish between legal immigration and illegal immigration. One side seems to think all immigration is good and the other that any immigration is bad.
It probably seems that way because one side thinks there should be less illegal immigration and less legal immigration. And the other side think there should be more legal immigration, and that many of the illegal immigrants should be able to get legal status.

Last edited by scr4; 03-21-2019 at 09:58 PM.
  #23  
Old 03-21-2019, 10:16 PM
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Transgender people do not ignore biology. We are very, very aware of our biology.
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Old 03-21-2019, 11:03 PM
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Dems don't want to destroy capitalism; they want to save it (and the rest of us) from its excesses. Just what Roosevelt did. True socialists (I have known a couple and one of my favorite Sci-Fi writes has a blog advocating true socialism and really dislikes Sanders for that reason.
Yes. You know how to make a Socialist angry at you? Call them a Liberal. Socialists hate Liberals; the more "woke" among them think they're Fascists or essentially Fascists, which is idiotic, but when you're out in the Extreme Left, everyone to the Right of Chomsky looks like Hitler to you, I suppose. It's the obverse of the Narcissism of Small Differences, where extremely similar groups think they're vastly different (Anarchists, in other words); I call it being blind to distant differences.

So I'll say this to any Conservatives who may be listening: There's quite a lot of diversity in the Democratic Party, in terms of ideology and approach, and it's wrong to think we're all in full agreement.
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Old 03-22-2019, 12:31 AM
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Socialists hate Liberals.
LOL, it's true! We do! I love the complaints I see here on occasion that this place is a left-wing echo chamber.
  #26  
Old 03-22-2019, 08:14 AM
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Homosexuals do not want to molest children, have sex with everybody or anybody of the sex, and are not leading immoral lives.
  #27  
Old 03-22-2019, 08:25 AM
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They are about 0.2 conservatives left here.
What’s the point of this thread again?
For the liberals to tell each other that they aren't wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derleth
So I'll say this to any Conservatives who may be listening: There's quite a lot of diversity in the Democratic Party, in terms of ideology and approach, and it's wrong to think we're all in full agreement.
I would say the same thing to liberals about the Republican party, but I doubt many of them are listening.

Regards,
Shodan
  #28  
Old 03-22-2019, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
For the liberals to tell each other that they aren't wrong.
I would say the same thing to liberals about the Republican party, but I doubt many of them are listening.

Regards,
Shodan
I'm listening I hope our Republican friends chime in and we can actually have a civil conversation. I'm not holding my breath but . . .

I can't speak for anyone but myself and the folks I've spoken to but for us, it's much more about the current president. By the time one has lived through a few election cycles it's expected that sometime "their" side wins and sometimes your own does and you get over the disappointment of election night and go on and live your life and worry about things you can actually change. The feeling of disbelief and abject horror many of us felt to learn someone such as DT was going to lead this nation is beyond my ability to describe.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:51 AM
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That I don’t [I]have[I] a side. I reject the notion that I need to pick one of two sides, after which I have to fit into some sub-flavor of that side.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:56 AM
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It's not so much about misunderstanding, more about stereotyping, demonization and not really giving a crap about the "other side".
  #31  
Old 03-22-2019, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
For the liberals to tell each other that they aren't wrong.
I would say the same thing to liberals about the Republican party, but I doubt many of them are listening.

Regards,
Shodan
Thank you, Shodan.

Since I'm obviously outnumbered here, I try to stay away from all political posts/threads. In fact, I'm getting out now!
  #32  
Old 03-22-2019, 10:22 AM
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Most of the outrage seems to be from people sharing memes where the basic premise is just wrong, and they throw outrage on top of that.

1. Nowhere in the western world has banned anything Christian or switched to Sharia law to appease Muslim immigrants.

2. Illegal aliens do not get food stamps, housing, medical care, social security or any other government handouts.

3. Republicans do not love and take care of Veterans any more than Democrats hate them and give their benefits away to illegal immigrants.
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:25 AM
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I think in fairness, I can name one huge misunderstanding from the Republican side:

Not all Republicans are racist.
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Old 03-22-2019, 10:50 AM
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I think in fairness, I can name one huge misunderstanding from the Republican side:

Not all Republicans are racist.
And not all liberals think that all republicans are racist.
  #35  
Old 03-22-2019, 11:10 AM
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That I don't want the US to become a de-facto a christian theocracy doesn't mean we're gearing up to eradicate your church, round you up and brainwash you in atheism.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:29 AM
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I'm listening I hope our Republican friends chime in and we can actually have a civil conversation. I'm not holding my breath but . . .
OK.

There's quite a lot of diversity in the Republican Party, in terms of ideology and approach, and it's wrong to think we're all in full agreement.

Also, when we oppose illegal immigration, we mean the "illegal".

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:47 AM
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There are some lesbians who are angry at men, but in any group of women, you'll find some who are angry at men.

Most of us seem to like men fine as friends and co-workers and such. We just aren't romantically attracted to them. I've never actually met a lesbian, in person, who said anything about the awfulness of men when talking about their realization they were solely attracted to other women.

For gays in general, that we're not attracted to children or interested in "recruiting" them. Any more than an adult woman into men would also be into little boys.
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Old 03-22-2019, 11:53 AM
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Pro-life people don't hate nor want to oppress women.
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Old 03-22-2019, 01:14 PM
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Pro-life people don't hate nor want to oppress women.
Especially given that, very often, most of the participants in the pro-life marches are women, and many of the pro-lifer speakers, writers or political activists out there are women.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:10 PM
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That it's not a pose or cynical ploy.



As in, I'm not saying what I'm saying for the benefit of any crowd. I'm not opposing you to be popular. I'm not disagreeing with you or calling what you said monstrous because I'm "virtue signaling". I'm not pretending to be feminism-friendly to pick up chicks (but I do loathe you for suggesting it as a valid motivation to pretend anything at all). I really, deeply believe that you're an idiot and/or a sociopath if I call you that. I don't want migrants to be treated with dignity & naturalized because "my side needs voters" (I don't have a side and *I* don't vote !), nor am I incensed at, I don't know, police brutality or Macron deploying the fucking army on the Champs Elysees because I'm an anarchist or hate his party and government (I mean I do, but that's besides the point) - it's just that this shit is WRONG. By any moral or philosophical metric I can recognize as having any merit.


But of course, if you already convinced yourself that I can only be speaking in bad faith, then my saying that will be disregarded as being in bad faith too. That's the beauty of it. You don't even have to think about what I'm saying, it's on auto-ignore !


Quote:
Originally Posted by enipla
Dems don't worship Hillary Clinton. That's not the reason that we are unhappy that Trump was elected as the President of the USA. Not even close.

Well duuuuh. Y'all worship Obama, right ?
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  #41  
Old 03-22-2019, 02:16 PM
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Gun rights activists are neither fantasizing about shooting people nor sexually stimulated by weapons.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:21 PM
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White Liberals don't feel guilty about racism, sexism, or slavery. When I say that structural racism has benefited me, a white person, I'm not "confessing my white guilt", because I don't feel any.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:45 PM
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That not all Conservative Christians are bigoted knuckle-dragging mouth breathers (My IQ is over 140), and we don't appreciate being portrayed that way.

That holding opposing opinions is not hate or intolerance.

That we didn't care about people's lifestyle choices until it became a demand that we accept, endorse, celebrate, and participate in their choices.

That we see a human being that we would be happy to see cared for by a loving family if the birth mother doesn't want to.
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Old 03-22-2019, 02:57 PM
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That any time we work to ban a basic right such as free speech or the right to own firearms, is wrong.
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Old 03-22-2019, 03:00 PM
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That not all Conservative Christians are bigoted knuckle-dragging mouth breathers (My IQ is over 140), and we don't appreciate being portrayed that way.

That holding opposing opinions is not hate or intolerance.

That we didn't care about people's lifestyle choices until it became a demand that we accept, endorse, celebrate, and participate in their choices.

That we see a human being that we would be happy to see cared for by a loving family if the birth mother doesn't want to.
As an atheist, I completely endorse this post. Everyone is entitled to their rights. Nobody is entitled to my approval.
  #46  
Old 03-22-2019, 03:03 PM
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That we didn't care about people's lifestyle choices until it became a demand that we accept, endorse, celebrate, and participate in their choices.
I was under the impression that "not caring" meant "accepting".
  #47  
Old 03-22-2019, 03:22 PM
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That any time we work to ban a basic right such as free speech or the right to own firearms, is wrong.

Ah. So you're fine with yelling fire in crowded theatres ? Deliberately misleading advertizing ? Spreading lies about the competition ? Any and all verbal harassment ?



Absolute rights are for absolute idjits. Everything comes with caveats, nuances and conditions. The only meaningful discourse to have is which caveats, what conditions, where the lines are drawn.
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Old 03-22-2019, 03:38 PM
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Any assumptions you make about my side are completely wrong. All my assumptions about your side are 100% correct.
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Old 03-22-2019, 03:41 PM
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That holding opposing opinions is not hate or intolerance.
That right there is probably the one that needs to be repeated several more times, and have "racist" inserted in there somewhere.


I'd also add a sort of corollary- prioritizing similar opinions differently doesn't constitute hate or intolerance either.

For example, I don't think a lot of people on either side of the aisle disagree that (insert your issue here) isn't a issue that needs addressing, but many don't necessarily think it's THE main issue that needs addressing. Or they don't see it as big of an issue as you do.

That doesn't make them racist, hateful or intolerant. It just means that their priorities are different than yours.
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Old 03-22-2019, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
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Any assumptions you make about my side are completely wrong. All my assumptions about your side are 100% correct.
I read a blog post today to similar effect - basically saying that political issues are like multifaceted, complex diamonds - however, each side is thoroughly versed in the nuanced complexity of its own issues, but when it comes to the other's side's issues, their diamond is just "a rock."
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