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Old 03-21-2019, 02:49 PM
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Are you starting to see the effects of MGTOW?


Over the past year or so in my maintenance department at our plant several young men, late 20's to early 30's have come on. About 5 of them in a workforce of about 40. They are all decent looking and make good incomes.

One thing I just realized it none of them are married or have live in gf's and maybe not even be in a serious relationship. Only recently have I began to talk to them and it seems a big part of this is related to MGTOW. While they dont dislike women they are fearful of making a commitment to a woman where they mind end up divorced or that she would take their money or other bad situations. They often see women only wanting a meal ticket or who want to use them and discard them. One is divorced and often talks about his frustrations with child support payments and how his ex cheated on him. Others feel women just want a guy to be their personal atm. Another talked about how he didnt want a woman to come into his life and demand he change to please her.

Now while the floor workers at our plant are majority female, because of meetoo they have to be extra cautious in talking to them.

So what are you all seeing? Maybe not full on MGTOW where they have totally sworn off women but are you seeing young men, or men in general, stepping away from relationships because of the feeling that women only want to do bad things to them?
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:52 PM
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Since I have no idea what MGTOW even stands for, I have no idea if I'm seeing any effects of it, or not.
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:57 PM
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Yeah really. Don't you know the "Spell out acronyms before you use them" rule?
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:58 PM
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Sounds like a bunch of deeply flawed dudes who see relationships as transactions, and they're not going to proceed without guarantees, which they will never get. The gene pool will be just fine without their contributions.
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:59 PM
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Apparently it's "Men Going Their Own Way" which from a quick google search, is as awful as it sounds.

I suspect it's too fringe a movement to have an impact like the OP suggests.
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Old 03-21-2019, 02:59 PM
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Since I have no idea what MGTOW even stands for, I have no idea if I'm seeing any effects of it, or not.
Men Going Their Own Way

It's a bunch of guys who are so terrified that girls will hurt them that they refuse to talk to the scary cootie-laden monsters.

I can't say I've noticed any effect from this in my day to day.
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:02 PM
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Wow, I'm not married, nor have a live-in GF, nor in a serious relationship. Maybe I should check this organization out!
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:04 PM
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Now while the floor workers at our plant are majority female, because of meetoo they have to be extra cautious in talking to them.
Also, this cracks me up.
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:05 PM
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Nope, haven't seen any in the wild, so to speak. But one of these fellows is complaining about having to support his child?
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:09 PM
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It's a bunch of guys who are so terrified that girls will hurt them that they refuse to talk to the scary cootie-laden monsters.
Nah, it's more like a bunch of guys who insist they are "going their own way", but then devote their free time to talking about how bad women are.

Think of them as being the sour grapes version of incels.

Last edited by you with the face; 03-21-2019 at 03:10 PM.
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:12 PM
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Think of them as being the sour grapes version of incels.
Accurate enough.
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:12 PM
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...

Now while the floor workers at our plant are majority female, because of meetoo they have to be extra cautious in talking to them.

....
I work with lots of women, senior to me, junior to me, peers, clients and I have zero worries about the "meetoo" (sic) movement. Is that extra "e" there to make is sound like the MGTOW guys are whining?

Anyway, sounds like some "men's rights"/redpill bullshit to me. I've never encountered anyone doing that nor have I seen the abbreviation before.

If it is a trend, we'd better let in more immigrants to keep the population stable!
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:20 PM
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Are you starting to see the effects of MGTOW?


Are they related to ILAWBW?
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:22 PM
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Men in their late 20's who aren't married?! Someone get me my fainting couch.
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:27 PM
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Nah, it's more like a bunch of guys who insist they are "going their own way", but then devote their free time to talking about how bad women are.

Basically what I was going to say. They have decided that women aren't important to them, and spend all of their time thinking about how important women aren't.


(A recent example.)
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:34 PM
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There are going to be some hard lessons coming out of this current movement to empower women, and the current crop of dip shits are going to have a lot harder time dealing with it. It seems like 80% of my Facebook feed is posts by women talking about taking care of themselves, healthy relationships and removing toxic people. There is a certain class of asshole that is going to have to keep diving further down to the bottom of the barrel, and yes, when they get there all the women they see will seem like they're just looking for a meal ticket.
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:34 PM
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Men in their late 20's who aren't married?! Someone get me my fainting couch.
Yup. And, in fact, the average age for an American male who is getting married for the first time is now 29.5. Overall, the average age for first marriage for Americans is now 27.4, and it's been steadily rising for several decades.

There seems to be a bunch of factors: looking to explore and experiment before settling down, dating longer before deciding to tie the knot, financial and job insecurity, living together without getting married being more socially acceptable, and many younger people not seeing marriage as a priority.

And, yeah, probably a few men going their own way, too, but I doubt that's a primary contributor.

Last edited by kenobi 65; 03-21-2019 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:41 PM
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Sounds like women, as a group, are probably better off having these dudes going their own way.

Men who complain about child support are wanks! The women doesn’t set it the court does, and it’s to feed and house your child!
What kind of wank bitches about feeding his kid?
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:46 PM
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Men who complain about child support are wanks! The women doesn’t set it the court does, and it’s to feed and house your child!
What kind of wank bitches about feeding his kid?
Because they know a guy who knows a guy who has a brother who's ex-wife buys lobster.
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:49 PM
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So what are you all seeing? Maybe not full on MGTOW where they have totally sworn off women but are you seeing young men, or men in general, stepping away from relationships because of the feeling that women only want to do bad things to them?
No, just the usual rejects claiming its their choice.
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:50 PM
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"Men going their own way" are basically incel/MRA-lite. As such, they are essentially equally irrelevant. Until they go postal and massacre a bunch of innocent people as they are wont to do.
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:57 PM
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I've never heard of them, but I enthusiastically support their resistance to procreation. Never give up, fellas!
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Old 03-21-2019, 03:58 PM
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It doesn't take long to figure out that "involuntarily celebate" is usually a euphemism for "enthusiastically awful," and that "Men Going Their Own Way" are better described as "Men Loudly Declining Invitations They Haven't Received."
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:07 PM
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Think of them as being the sour grapes version of incels.
I thought incels were the sour grapes version of incels.
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:13 PM
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The good MGTOW are the ones who have enough maturity to not take up such a label and announce it to the world or spread general unpleasantness.
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:39 PM
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I doubt it has anything to do with the MGTOW crowd at all.

Rather, it's probably more a consequence of the fact that if you're in your 20s and single, it's like an extension of college in a lot of ways, only without your parents, and having to hold down a job. Why would you want to go off and have a serious relationship in that situation, if you perceive that as being something that's going to lock down a lot of the going out, carousing, video-gaming, drinking, etc. ? I get the impression that getting laid is somewhat easier these days than 20 years ago, so that only removes pressure to get into serious relationships relative to back then.
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Old 03-21-2019, 04:43 PM
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I get not wanting to enter a relationship before you are emotionally ready, and I also get not wanting to deal with the financial risks of marriage. But I am not understanding why this has to be given a special gendered term, as if men are more likely to be burned by bad relationships than women. I am also curious if men who are "going their own way" believe themselves to be rebelling against the system in the hope that it will change for the better. Or are they simply not interested in a relationship?

IMHO, I am okay with people deciding the single life is fully compatible with a good lif. And if I were interested in a relationship, I would only want to field serious candidates, not candidates who haven't thought long and hard about what a relationship means. So they are making the dating game easier by sitting out. But the world does not need more haters. I don't care what kind of weird acronym you use to describe yourself. If hate and fear are your guiding principles, you are a loser.

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Old 03-21-2019, 04:58 PM
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Now while the floor workers at our plant are majority female, because
the women will pick up on their assholery right away if they start talking about women,
Quote:
they have to be extra cautious in talking to them.
FTFY.

And I can hear all the women serenading them with this song...
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:08 PM
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IRL I haven't met many proponents. What I have met IRL are guys who are afraid to get married becuase they know a lot of marriages end in divorce and they feel divorce court is biased against men. I"ve seen that many times and I can't blame them. I've known multiple guys who lost their life savings, houses, etc. in divorce court.
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:11 PM
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I'm a single man who has decided that he's not going to pursue dating because it would require me to make changes to myself and my lifestyle that I'm too lazy to make.

However I'm not a whiny baby about it, so I probably wouldn't qualify as a MGTOW.

Plus I'm not afraid of talking to women or anything, so that's probably another disqualifier. Not being a human-shaped stack of shit, I find it's pretty easy to talk politely to them.
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:47 PM
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I think they just can't get a date.
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Old 03-21-2019, 05:58 PM
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I thought incels were the sour grapes version of incels.
"Sour grapes". Maybe. Myself and almost every guy I know has been used by a woman who cheated on them or only wanted them for a payday. Granted one should not dwell on that.

Do the young men I am referring to, do they "fear women"? Well maybe. And maybe they have a good point. Many a man has married a woman or even had a live in girlfriend who upon breakup, gets half of whatever the guy has (his house, car. savings, etc... even if they were only living together). If he had children with her, she might (or very often do)get the kids and do everything she can to keep him out of their lives. All the time making him pay up or he goes to jail. Heck even if he finds out later they were not his kids he still has to pay. Finally if she wants, she can call the police, tell police he abused her, and he goes to jail no matter what.

Dont believe me? HERE is a video of a woman who says the same. Now the woman explains this as narcissistic behavior which both genders can be. However the our courts favor women.

Another video of a woman therapist telling men to NOT get married.

So is it "sour grapes" or men truly avoiding a very real danger?
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Old 03-21-2019, 06:05 PM
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I don't believe that the cases you mention are widespread enough to matter in the general scheme of things. I'm not saying you're lying, I'm saying that you may have a really warped view of relationships. I have no cite, but I bet that in real life, women get the short end of the relationship stick more than men - they get abused, murdered, left for younger women, hit on and groped practically everywhere.

Anyway, if your alphabet soup acronym is a problem, what do you propose to do about it? Make women date men they don't want to? Get rid of child support?
  #34  
Old 03-21-2019, 06:06 PM
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What "effects" are we supposed to be seeing?
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Old 03-21-2019, 06:06 PM
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I'm sure the Urbanredneck's co-workers have never even heard of MGTOW, it's just Urbanredneck trying to justify his own biases again.

And if "because of meetoo they have to be extra cautious in talking to them", then they've been doing it all wrong up till now and it's about time they treated the meetoo-ers like fellow humans and not pieces of meat.

I'm starting to think this is all a big whoosh. Urbanredneck is an internet satirist whose subtlety has slipped right past us all.
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Old 03-21-2019, 06:21 PM
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I rather think this is not so much a new phenomenon as something that's been going on prit' near forever — it just now has a label and a forum in which they can exchange tales of woe.

I suppose I qualify, since I've been divorced for more than 25 years and haven't had a date (much less a relationship) in that time. But I was dedicated to the welfare of our children, and by the time I was past that I'd reached the age where the chances of a meaningful relationship were slim at best. Plus it finally sank in how miserable my wife was in our marriage, and while I don't have a problem interacting with women on a business or light-social level, I'm not willing to risk doing that to anyone else.
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Old 03-21-2019, 06:21 PM
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...Myself and almost every guy I know has been used by a woman who cheated on them or only wanted them for a payday. ...
Not to spoil your day with facts, but men cheat more than women:

https://ifstudies.org/blog/who-cheat...ing-in-america

It's basically the same between 18 and 29, then men pull way ahead.
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Old 03-21-2019, 06:21 PM
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Myself and almost every guy I know has been used by a woman who cheated on them or only wanted them for a payday.
Well, almost every person who's been involved in dating and relationships has been used at some point by a partner who treated them badly. If you insist on seeing this as a problem specific to one gender, that suggests something skewed in your outlook.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbanredneck
So is it "sour grapes" or men truly avoiding a very real danger?
It's sour grapes. Sure, there are always very real dangers in relationships and marriage, and there's nothing wrong with anybody deciding that they personally would rather avoid relationships and marriage so as not to run those risks.

But that's not the same thing as throwing a permanent snit fit about how terrible a particular gender is overall, and how nobody should have anything to do with them if they can avoid it.

That kind of permanent snit fit, when it's a woman throwing it, traditionally gets her labeled an "envious bitter old maid". Self-identified MGTOW are just a new cultural iteration of the "envious bitter old maids" phenomenon.
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Old 03-21-2019, 06:27 PM
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"Sour grapes". Maybe. Myself and almost every guy I know has been used by a woman who cheated on them or only wanted them for a payday. Granted one should not dwell on that.

Do the young men I am referring to, do they "fear women"? Well maybe. And maybe they have a good point. Many a man has married a woman or even had a live in girlfriend who upon breakup, gets half of whatever the guy has (his house, car. savings, etc... even if they were only living together). If he had children with her, she might (or very often do)get the kids and do everything she can to keep him out of their lives. All the time making him pay up or he goes to jail. Heck even if he finds out later they were not his kids he still has to pay. Finally if she wants, she can call the police, tell police he abused her, and he goes to jail no matter what.

Dont believe me? HERE is a video of a woman who says the same. Now the woman explains this as narcissistic behavior which both genders can be. However the our courts favor women.

Another video of a woman therapist telling men to NOT get married.

So is it "sour grapes" or men truly avoiding a very real danger?
I'll be entirely frank - if all the women you've been with have cheated on you, that may be on you somewhat. And "only wanted them for a payday" sounds like the sort of thing that is accused without proof by somebody wallowing in sour grapes.

That said, as a man I actually have chosen to be cautious regarding a relationship I was once in. I was engaged to a woman I wasn't sure was going to stick with it in the long run, so prior to marriage I refused to engage in penetrative sex with her. Had we gotten married I would have comported myself without fear, but prior to that I wasn't interested in accidentally fathering a child. She was absolutely cool with all this - she was raising a toddler she'd had out of wedlock to a deadbeat dad at the time.

So that's me being fearfully man-cautious. Note that I didn't flee from the woman.
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Old 03-21-2019, 06:29 PM
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"Sour grapes". Maybe. Myself and almost every guy I know has been used by a woman who cheated on them or only wanted them for a payday. Granted one should not dwell on that.

Do the young men I am referring to, do they "fear women"? Well maybe. And maybe they have a good point. Many a man has married a woman or even had a live in girlfriend who upon breakup, gets half of whatever the guy has (his house, car. savings, etc... even if they were only living together). If he had children with her, she might (or very often do)get the kids and do everything she can to keep him out of their lives. All the time making him pay up or he goes to jail. Heck even if he finds out later they were not his kids he still has to pay. Finally if she wants, she can call the police, tell police he abused her, and he goes to jail no matter what.

Dont believe me? HERE is a video of a woman who says the same. Now the woman explains this as narcissistic behavior which both genders can be. However the our courts favor women.

Another video of a woman therapist telling men to NOT get married.

So is it "sour grapes" or men truly avoiding a very real danger?
Based on this post, it's sour grapes.
  #41  
Old 03-21-2019, 06:41 PM
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I once bought something on the internet that was a piece of crap and I felt ripped off. Therefore, I no longer engage in economic transactions.
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Old 03-21-2019, 06:55 PM
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What "effects" are we supposed to be seeing?
Alterations within people's ability to find long term relationships.
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:02 PM
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Now while the floor workers at our plant are majority female, because of meetoo they have to be extra cautious in talking to them.
Ah, yes, I long for the days when we could sexually harass women at will. I hate having to be "extra cautious" to not accidentally honk their boobs or show them my penis, or even say weird creepy stuff to them. Buncha snowflakes.
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:17 PM
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"Sour grapes". Maybe. Myself and almost every guy I know has been used by a woman who cheated on them or only wanted them for a payday.
Awwww. Poor baby.

I'm sure all the women-folk are just devastated that y'all are going your own way.
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Old 03-21-2019, 07:37 PM
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Another vote for sour grapes.
  #46  
Old 03-21-2019, 07:51 PM
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It's nothing new.
  #47  
Old 03-21-2019, 07:54 PM
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Basically what I was going to say. They have decided that women aren't important to them, and spend all of their time thinking about how important women aren't.

(A recent example.)
The link ridicules MGTOW but quotes from a "real MGTOW support board." My question is: Is that subreddit real? Or just some Onionized parody? ("Be as abrasive as possible without giving her a reason to send you to HR.")


I wonder if there's a correlation between gun-obsessed males and GTOWs. The former are obsessed with their lives being ruined when a mugger gets the $50 in their billfold. Based on the numbers, the MGTOW fear of financial ruin by their possible child's mother would seem more realistic.
  #48  
Old 03-21-2019, 08:18 PM
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:-)) Perfect!
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Old 03-21-2019, 08:26 PM
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What "effects" are we supposed to be seeing?
You don’t know? Women are supposed to be gnashing their teeth in lonely embittered agony from the knowledge that men are turning away from them. We’re supposed to be crying about all the good men being gone, so that the MGTOW can look on from afar with smug grins on their faces, thinking “that’s what you get, you shallow bitches!”. And then finally, we’re supposed to feel insecure and jealous and sexually frustrated as MGTOW enter relationships with sex dolls.
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Old 03-21-2019, 09:19 PM
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Here's a tip, Urbanredneck. Not everyone in a (usually arbitrary) group are the same. People are individuals.

When you say {people of this group} are {this thing} you're trafficking in stereotypes.
When you say {people of this group} are {this undesirable thing} you're being bigot.

Period.
End of tip.
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