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Old 04-12-2019, 02:36 PM
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Trump administration considered releasing illegal immigrants in sanctuary cities


While this is, obviously, a Trump political ploy, it seemed rather ironic for Democrats to condemn the proposal. Sanctuary cities, by definition, are there to offer sanctuary. This would be like a pro-life adoption center complaining about pro-choicers directing pregnant women to bring their unwanted babies to the center for adoption.
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:46 PM
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While this is, obviously, a Trump political ploy, it seemed rather ironic for Democrats to condemn the proposal. Sanctuary cities, by definition, are there to offer sanctuary. This would be like a pro-life adoption center complaining about pro-choicers directing pregnant women to bring their unwanted babies to the center for adoption.
That's yet another misunderstanding of the purpose of "sanctuary city" policies. But the Trump administration thanks you for buying into their consistent and intentional misrepresentation of the concept.
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:52 PM
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Sounds like wins all around except for Dem pols.
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:53 PM
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That's yet another misunderstanding of the purpose of "sanctuary city" policies. But the Trump administration thanks you for buying into their consistent and intentional misrepresentation of the concept.
What is the purpose of sanctuary cities? I thought I was deeply in favor of the concept but maybe I misunderstood.
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:56 PM
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...This would be like a pro-life adoption center complaining about pro-choicers directing pregnant women to bring their unwanted babies to the center for adoption.
No it wouldn't. It would be more like someone complaining that human beings were being treated by a racist fuck as political bombs.
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Old 04-12-2019, 02:57 PM
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I don't see what the Democrats are objecting to. They believe that illegal immigrants are no more likely to commit crimes than native born citizens, that it is morally wrong to assist the federal government in deporting them, and that immigrants seeking asylum should be allowed to do so within the US. Now all of a sudden they don't want these decent, hard-working, law-abiding people in their own cities where the local government can refrain from acting immorally. Sounds like a win-win-win for them, if they really think that.

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Old 04-12-2019, 02:59 PM
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I don't see what the Democrats are objecting to. They believe that illegal immigrants are no more likely to commit crimes than native born citizens, that it is morally wrong to assist the federal government in deporting them, and that immigrants seeking asylum should be allowed to do so within the US. Now all of a sudden they don't want these decent, hard-working, law-abiding people in their own cities where the local government can refrain from acting immorally. Sounds like a win-win-win for them, if they really think that.



Regards,

Shodan


Do you object to this, or more obfuscating and pretending your party is still the party it was before Trump?

https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/04/12/pol...don/index.html


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Old 04-12-2019, 03:01 PM
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What is the purpose of sanctuary cities? I thought I was deeply in favor of the concept but maybe I misunderstood.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_city

"Leaders of sanctuary cities say they want to reduce fear of deportation and possible family break-up among people who are in the country illegally, so that such people will be more willing to report crimes, use health and social services, and enroll their children in school." (bolding mine)

These policies help prevent/minimize shadowy ghettos full of people terrified to cooperate with police and other legitimate officials in the normal day-to-day operations of society. For example, rapists would love to have a sub-population scared to report crimes to the police -- great targets who they can victimize again and again with little fear of their crimes being reported.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:02 PM
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I don't see what the Democrats are objecting to. They believe that illegal immigrants are no more likely to commit crimes than native born citizens, that it is morally wrong to assist the federal government in deporting them, and that immigrants seeking asylum should be allowed to do so within the US. Now all of a sudden they don't want these decent, hard-working, law-abiding people in their own cities where the local government can refrain from acting immorally. Sounds like a win-win-win for them, if they really think that.

Regards,
Shodan
To go back to abortion as an analogy, there's always a big difference between what one party says they want and what they actually want. Many pro-lifers will say that "pregnant women ought to carry their babies to term and give up for adoption rather than aborting," but if they actually saw such a thing come to fruition, they probably wouldn't like what they saw.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:02 PM
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You do realize that if people are "released" from custody, they don't need "sanctuary" anymore.

They would be brought to those cities with the purpose of overwhelming the services available with large numbers, ensuring that the maximum number of people are harmed in the process. All in an effort to punish people who disagree with Trump's infantile immigration policy.

Oh, and the immigrants? Who gives a blind fuck what happens to them? We'll use them and their suffering as weapons to hurt our political opponents.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:04 PM
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I don't see what the Democrats are objecting to.
Maybe the idea of treating desperate men, women, and children like political pawns? That's what I object to. I generally think we should treat human beings with dignity. YMMV.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:04 PM
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:06 PM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_city

"Leaders of sanctuary cities say they want to reduce fear of deportation and possible family break-up among people who are in the country illegally, so that such people will be more willing to report crimes, use health and social services, and enroll their children in school." (bolding mine)

These policies help prevent/minimize shadowy ghettos full of people terrified to cooperate with police and other legitimate officials in the normal day-to-day operations of society. For example, rapists would love to have a sub-population scared to report crimes to the police -- great targets who they can victimize again and again with little fear of their crimes being reported.
Ok so it is exactly what I thought it was. What is the problem with taking migrants there?
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:07 PM
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Can you explain how this would hurt Dems?


Ask Trump. It was his plan.

Does it matter that the plan is stupid and his own administration told him so? Or does it matter that the President dreams up stupid plans that he imagines will harm those who didn’t vote for him?
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:09 PM
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I would be totally, 100% happy with more migrants who are applying for asylum coming here to DC.

However, the idea of people who have fled horrible violence being treated like pariahs is deeply offensive, and further evidence that Trump has a severe personality disorder that approaches psychopathy.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:09 PM
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Maybe the idea of treating desperate men, women, and children like political pawns? That's what I object to. I generally think we should treat human beings with dignity. YMMV.
Yeah that aspect is unsavory. But I think they would prefer to be free in these cities than locked up like Trump does or deported like Obama would have done, but I can’t be sure without asking them.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:11 PM
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While this is, obviously, a Trump political ploy, it seemed rather ironic for Democrats to condemn the proposal.
By the way, did you read your cite? Based on your post, I'm pretty sure you did not. Might want to do that once in a while.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:14 PM
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I would be totally, 100% happy with more migrants who are applying for asylum coming here to DC.

However, the idea of people who have fled horrible violence being treated like pariahs is deeply offensive, and further evidence that Trump has a severe personality disorder that approaches psychopathy.
Will the Dem House forward such a pro-migrant proposal now that they know Trump is up for it?
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:14 PM
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Maybe the idea of treating desperate men, women, and children like political pawns? That's what I object to. I generally think we should treat human beings with dignity. YMMV.
Currently, they are being detained in jails and the like. Is that better somehow?
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:16 PM
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Currently, they are being detained in jails and the like. Is that better somehow?
No, but there are other options aside from treating desperate people like crap.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:21 PM
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Will the Dem House forward such a pro-migrant proposal now that they know Trump is up for it?
Are you asking if House Dems agree that migrants should be treated like pawns?
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:21 PM
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Yeah those option are not open. Trump is willing. Will Dems be open?
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:22 PM
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Are you asking if House Dems agree that migrants should be treated like pawns?
No I’m asking if they will push to have them released into these cities?
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:23 PM
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Yeah those option are not open. Trump is willing. Will Dems be open?
I realize that libertarianism long ago determined that "If we can't beat racism, let's be racists too," but I don't think that's how the Democratic Party approaches its disagreements with Trump.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:23 PM
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Yeah those option are not open. Trump is willing. Will Dems be open?


Can you make the point you’re trying to make more clearly?
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:24 PM
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What is really surprising is to see now the conservatives of the SDMB tossing even ICE under the bus just to follow what the Mango Mussolini thinks is a good idea.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immig...=.89ed898f72d1
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The White House told U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement that the plan was intended to alleviate a shortage of detention space but also served to send a message to Democrats. The attempt at political retribution raised alarm within ICE, with a top official responding that it was rife with budgetary and liability concerns, and noting that “there are PR risks as well.”

After the White House pressed again in February, ICE’s legal department rejected the idea as inappropriate and rebuffed the administration.

A White House official and a spokesman for DHS sent nearly identical statements to The Post on Thursday, indicating that the proposal is no longer under consideration.

“This was just a suggestion that was floated and rejected, which ended any further discussion,” the White House statement said.
So, on top of everything, a moot point, and moot points seem to be seen as great progress by some followers of Trump. In reality it looks like a very pathetic way to score political points.

And I think that instead of calling Trump 'Mango Mussolini" I think that now Trump is more like the former dictator of Portugal, Salazar, who had lost his mind after a stroke and continued to his end to his days to think that his terrible orders and declarations were being carried out while his staff kept him happy by telling him that they were or still being worked out. 'Cross our hearts! Your super duper orders will be done! We are working on it, ignore what you hear from your enemies, your law officers in reality are doing whatever you say...'

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Old 04-12-2019, 03:36 PM
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I realize that libertarianism long ago determined that "If we can't beat racism, let's be racists too," but I don't think that's how the Democratic Party approaches its disagreements with Trump.
I have no idea what you are talking about, but it sounds like the Dems will not push to have the migrants released into these cities. Am I right on that at least?
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:38 PM
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Can you make the point you’re trying to make more clearly?
I think it is a good idea to release migrants into sanctuary cities. If Trump is up for it, even for nefarious purposes, I think the best pro-migrant policy available would be to adopt the policy.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:40 PM
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What is really surprising is to see now the conservatives of the SDMB tossing even ICE under the bus just to follow what the Mango Mussolini thinks is a good idea.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/immig...=.89ed898f72d1


So, on top of everything, a moot point, and moot points seem to be seen as great progress by some followers of Trump. In reality it looks like a very pathetic way to score political points.

And I think that instead of calling Trump 'Mango Mussolini" I think that now Trump is more like the former dictator of Portugal, Salazar, who had lost his mind after a stroke and continued to his end to his days to think that his terrible orders and declarations were being carried out while his staff kept him happy by telling him that they were or still being worked out. 'Cross our hearts! Your super duper orders will be done! We are working on it, ignore what you hear from your enemies, your law officers in reality are doing whatever you say...'
So you are taking the pro-ICE position?
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:42 PM
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I think it is a good idea to release migrants into sanctuary cities. If Trump is up for it, even for nefarious purposes, I think the best pro-migrant policy available would be to adopt the policy.


I think guns save lives. If Obama is up for it, even for nefarious purposes, I think the best pro-gun policy available would be to hand out guns at Republican rallies.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:49 PM
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Oh FFS! I'm all for taking in immigrants to sanctuary cities. But it's going to take a little more planning than just taking busloads of them and dropping them off on the city streets.

If we're going to do this, let's do it responsibly. And let's treat these immigrants with the dignity and respect they deserve.

Call me crazy, but I don't think Trump is willing to do those things. He'd much rather cause chaos in the very country he was sworn to protect.

Last edited by Grrr!; 04-12-2019 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:51 PM
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I think guns save lives. If Obama is up for it, even for nefarious purposes, I think the best pro-gun policy available would be to hand out guns at Republican rallies.
Is this a joke?
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:52 PM
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But not rejected. Trump just embraced it.
From just four hours ago:
"Due to the fact that Democrats are unwilling to change our very dangerous immigration laws, we are indeed, as reported, giving strong considerations to placing Illegal Immigrants in Sanctuary Cities only...."
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...42280919044096
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:53 PM
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Is this a joke?


No. It’s an obviously disingenuous argument that lacks nuance and yet parallels perfectly.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:53 PM
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Oh FFS! I'm all for taking in immigrants to sanctuary cities. But it's going to take a little more planning than just taking busloads of them and dropping them off on the city streets.
Ok. So keep them in cages while it is straightened out, or continue deportations until then?
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:53 PM
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So you are taking the pro-ICE position?
You know, gotchas would be useful for you if they could your talking point to not be a pathetic one.

In this specific case, yes. ICE was right, like the the blind squirrel that finds a nut.

Last edited by GIGObuster; 04-12-2019 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:54 PM
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No. It’s an obviously disingenuous argument that lacks nuance and yet parallels perfectly.
Except Obama wouldn’t support that and Republicans wouldn’t have a huge problem. Here, Trump could support it and the Dems have a huge problem.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:55 PM
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But not rejected. Trump just embraced it.
From just four hours ago:
"Due to the fact that Democrats are unwilling to change our very dangerous immigration laws, we are indeed, as reported, giving strong considerations to placing Illegal Immigrants in Sanctuary Cities only...."
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...42280919044096
As I said, Salazar is back!
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:55 PM
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You know, gotchas would be useful for you if they could your talking point to not be a pathetic one.

In this specific case, yes. ICE was right, like the the blind squirrel that finds a nut.
Ok. I think ICE is wrong 100% of the time and favor abolition.

Which of the other options on the table do you favor? Incarceration or deportation?

Last edited by WillFarnaby; 04-12-2019 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:57 PM
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So you are taking the pro-ICE position?
Have you ever tried responding to what people actually say, instead of rewording things to fit your little script?
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:57 PM
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Except Obama wouldn’t support that and Republicans wouldn’t have a huge problem. Here, Trump could support it and the Dems have a huge problem.


Trump supports bringing immigrants into the United States? He has an odd way of showing it.


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Old 04-12-2019, 03:57 PM
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Except Obama wouldn’t support that and Republicans wouldn’t have a huge problem. Here, Trump could support it and the Dems have a huge problem.
Bring it on, in this case you are still ignoring that even ICE can see how this can be tossed out of court in New York minute.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:59 PM
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Ok. I think ICE is wrong 100% of the time and favor abolition.

Which of the other options on the table do you favor? Incarceration or deportation?
I'm in favor of less pathetic arguments, specially the ones that are going out of the OP's subject.
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Old 04-12-2019, 03:59 PM
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Trump supports bringing immigrants into the United States? He has an odd way of showing it.


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This thread is about an idea of freeing migrants in sanctuary cities. Welcome.
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Old 04-12-2019, 04:01 PM
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This thread is about an idea of freeing migrants in sanctuary cities. Welcome.


And trump supports bringing them into the United States in your mind?
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Old 04-12-2019, 04:01 PM
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I'm in favor of less pathetic arguments, specially the ones that are going out of the OP's subject.
So do you favor the status quo or the release of migrants in sanctuary cities? Those are the only options on the table at the moment.
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Old 04-12-2019, 04:02 PM
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This thread is about an idea of freeing migrants in sanctuary cities. Welcome.
They were free before they were rounded up, weren't they?
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Old 04-12-2019, 04:02 PM
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And trump supports bringing them into the United States in your mind?
No. He supports releasing them into these cities once captured.
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Old 04-12-2019, 04:02 PM
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This thread is about an idea of freeing migrants in sanctuary cities. Welcome.
Actually the OP said "illegal immigrants", of course since that is wrong already, the idea is even more pathetic.
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Old 04-12-2019, 04:03 PM
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So do you favor the status quo or the release of migrants in sanctuary cities? Those are the only options on the table at the moment.
Get a bigger table, and join in on the actual conversation going on here.
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