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Old 04-15-2019, 12:24 PM
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Notre Dame on fire


The pictures look awful.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...athedral-fire/
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:33 PM
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Notre Dame on fire


I just saw this too. The video is awful. It looks like a large part of the building is likely to be heavily damaged if not completely lost. Very sad.

Last edited by Kolak of Twilo; 04-15-2019 at 12:34 PM.
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:35 PM
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Looks like there was some construction being done on one part of the roof. You can see the scaffolding in the first photo:

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/15/pari...e-reuters.html
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:37 PM
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:38 PM
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Terrible news. Hope the fire is quickly put out and nobody gets hurt.
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:54 PM
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Tragic.

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Originally Posted by Donald Trump
So horrible to watch the massive fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out. Must act quickly!
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Old 04-15-2019, 12:56 PM
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that spire looks like it is going to go down soon.

so very horrible with holy week beginning.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:01 PM
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If you give a hunchback a cookie...
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:03 PM
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Spire has gone.
Norte Dame is Norte Gone.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:08 PM
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Well this sucks.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:10 PM
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I hope this was indeed an accident but what a huge cultural loss this is. I hope they can rebuild it just like it was.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:13 PM
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This is horrible. It was a beautiful building. I imagine it will be repaired but this just awful.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:18 PM
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Losing the building is bad enough, but I understand that there are a great number of relics inside, which will probably be lost as well.

Very sad. I hope for no injuries.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:22 PM
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theme song


Between the height of the (now downed) spire, the width of the building & the flying buttresses, & the scaffolding in place it's going to be hard to get water on this because aerial platforms will have to be further back than ideal.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:22 PM
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How awful. The whole roof was fully involved
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:37 PM
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"flying water tankers"
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:39 PM
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So very sad to see the art and history lost.
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Last edited by Buttercup Smith; 04-15-2019 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:51 PM
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The last I saw (and I can't watch because it's breaking my heart), they are concentrating on getting as much of the portable stuff out as they can. To me this implies that they don't think they can get the fire out before the building is burned out.

To think of all that beauty and history in ashes is horrible.

Last edited by Morgyn; 04-15-2019 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:51 PM
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We're all watching here at work and I feel like crying Very sad day, indeed,
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:54 PM
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Absolutely heartbreaking.
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Old 04-15-2019, 01:55 PM
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At least they got these off (four days ago, the first time in over 100 years!)
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:00 PM
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I can't wrap my brain around this. NBC news just said the wooden interior is burning. This is an irreparable loss to the world.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:03 PM
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Damn. I liked that building. So far it looks like the rose window and towers might possibly survive.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:05 PM
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I'm watching the live feed. They have yet to get the fire under control, let alone put it out. No deaths or injuries reported...but I imagine many hearts have been broken.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:14 PM
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I was there at February, 2018. At the risk of sounding ignorant (and no snide jokes from you yahoos! ) how does this thing burn? It's all stone is it not?
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
I was there at February, 2018. At the risk of sounding ignorant (and no snide jokes from you yahoos! ) how does this thing burn? It's all stone is it not?
The entire roof structure is wood.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by UltraVires View Post
I was there at February, 2018. At the risk of sounding ignorant (and no snide jokes from you yahoos! ) how does this thing burn? It's all stone is it not?
Ken Follett was on the BBC, and of course he has written long novels on cathedral construction. From what I understood, the roofs are made of wood and when they burn they collapse, creating a huge amount of flammable debris everywhere.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:19 PM
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It seems that the whole interior has burned, except for the bell towers.

There were wooden beams and paneling dating back to the 13th century, and it must have been extremely flammable.

An irreparable loss, not only to France but to the world.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:20 PM
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The just reported that all of the art work and a good part of the antiquities have been saved.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:21 PM
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The just reported that all of the art work and a good part of the antiquities have been saved.
That's a relief and also the absence of reported injuries at least so far.

Anyway whatever the damage is, France is rich enough to restore the whole thing eventually to something close to its original glory. I hope other countries, especially in Europe, chip in as well.

Last edited by Lantern; 04-15-2019 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by not what you'd expect View Post
Losing the building is bad enough, but I understand that there are a great number of relics inside, which will probably be lost as well.

Very sad. I hope for no injuries.
All the art and relics were saved, according to the reporters in the linked live broadcast. So that's a relief.

Last edited by Bear_Nenno; 04-15-2019 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:24 PM
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"flying water tankers"
Just once, that man needs to swallow the impulse to say something idiotic.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:28 PM
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Anyway whatever the damage is, France is rich enough to restore the whole thing eventually to something close to its original glory.
For a given value of "original" - the spire that collapsed only dates to the 1840s, after all.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:30 PM
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Just once, that man needs to swallow the impulse to say something idiotic.
What would be really neat-o is if the "Smartest, Hippest" could somehow resist pointing out something some idiot said, at least while one of the world's most iconic buildings is still in flames.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:37 PM
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There are reports that the fire has now spread to one of the towers.

As for "all the art and relics were saved" - I don't believe that for a second. Some of the more portable items may have been removed in time, but a huge amount must have been lost.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
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What would be really neat-o is if the "Smartest, Hippest" could somehow resist pointing out something some idiot said, at least while one of the world's most iconic buildings is still in flames.
David Muir kept saying, "The French call Notre Dame Our Lady". Well, of course they do. Notre Dame literally means Our Lady in French.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:42 PM
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I hope they can save the stone walls. The heat and cooling down cannot be good for their structural strength. And the counterbalances to the buttresses suddenly being removed can't be helpful, either. I fear the worst.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:42 PM
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Losing the building is bad enough, but I understand that there are a great number of relics inside, which will probably be lost as well.
Yes, the antiquities stored within would be an even bigger loss than just the structure itself.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:42 PM
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I visited almost 20 years ago and it was quite memorable. So sad to see the building devastated in this fire. I hope the reports that the artwork inside has been saved are true.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
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I hope other countries, especially in Europe, chip in as well.
Why? It's a French/religious building; why should other countries contribute towards rebuilding it. There no humanitarian crisis, like thousands displaced due to a hurricane. We have enough of a backlog to fix in this country as it is, & I'm sure many/most other European countries do too.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey1505 View Post
Just once, that man needs to swallow the impulse to say something idiotic.
This wasn't totally idiotic; however, I'm sure the Paris Fire Dept is professional & had some preplans for fighting a fire there. Taking advice from a non-fire service person thousands of miles from the scene is probably not the best idea.
The reason aerial tankers work so well on forest fires is that 1) they're remote & hard to otherwise get water/fire retardant to & 2) The weight of the water hitting anything remotely in the area but not 100% on target won't cause any damage. Doing that in an urban area could damage other nearby buildings/people/fire apparatus that isn't otherwise in danger. You'd want a helicopter (not an airplane) & have it drop from a relatively low height; otherwise, the water dropped would cause significant damage & possibly drop the roof just from the weight of water hitting all at once. Of course getting that low would cause issues for the helo including visibility due to smoke & unstable thermals. A more appropriate tweet would be, "So sad; hope they put it out quickly with minimal damage." but we're not supposed to make political comments in breaking news stories.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:46 PM
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I heard a correspondent note that there were no fatalities, no injuries. That in itself is miraculous if true.
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Old 04-15-2019, 02:51 PM
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Why? It's a French/religious building; why should other countries contribute towards rebuilding it. There no humanitarian crisis, like thousands displaced due to a hurricane.
It's a site significant to human culture as a whole, not just of France.

Quote:
We have enough of a backlog to fix in this country as it is, & I'm sure many/most other European countries do too.
Oh, really, there's a backlog, is there? How unfortunate for you. And us.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:02 PM
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Basical the Cathedral was undergoing substantial renovations. This resulted both in:

Quote:
Religious statues set atop Notre Dame Cathedral have come down for the first time in over a century as part of a restoration of the monumental Paris church's towering spire. A 105-yard crane lowered the copper statues representing the 12 apostles and four evangelists onto a truck, giving the public a ground-level look for the first time on Thursday. The figures regular posts look over the Paris from Notre Dame's 96-meter-high peak. The 3-meter-tall statues are being sent to southwestern France for work that is part of a $6.8 million renovation project on the cathedral spire and its 250 tons of lead.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...415-story.html

and

Quote:
Reuters Paris bureau chief Luke Baker tweets that authorities are attributing the fire to ongoing renovation work:

Fire at Paris’ Notre Dame cathedral was started by accident and is related to ongoing work, according to France 2, citing police. Either way it is terrible and a hideous blow to the symbolic heart of the city
— Luke Baker (@BakerLuke) April 15, 2019
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/...dame-fire.html

We had a discussion a few months ago about the Glasgow School of Art fire which also destroyed an extremely important architectural building--all because the workers were careless.
https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb...d.php?t=857002

This sounds like the same situation here.

Last edited by PastTense; 04-15-2019 at 03:03 PM.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by GreenWyvern View Post
It seems that the whole interior has burned, except for the bell towers.

There were wooden beams and paneling dating back to the 13th century, and it must have been extremely flammable.

An irreparable loss, not only to France but to the world.
Damn...and I'll bet that wood that is 700 years old is pretty dry and very flammable.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:12 PM
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CBS reporting that the whole of L'Ile de la Cite is being evacuated.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:12 PM
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I'm sure the building and grounds are insured.

Earlier, CNN did a closeup of a turret, upon which several FFs stood, presumably trying to figure out what to do next.

It appears that the FFs' main focus was on preventing the fire from spreading, and then putting it out would be next.

Old buildings are great to look at, but modern fire codes exist for a reason.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
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There are reports that the fire has now spread to one of the towers.

As for "all the art and relics were saved" - I don't believe that for a second. Some of the more portable items may have been removed in time, but a huge amount must have been lost.
The latest report (3:15 PM CT) is that they are still trying to save as much of the artwork as possible, but the north tower is in danger of collapse and the great bell of falling.

If it was my call: the buildings can be rebuilt - but save the historic artwork at all costs. I reserve the right to change my opinion on this if there is a chance that the fire can spread, in which case, "they're just paintings," but save the surrounding area at all costs.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:22 PM
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It's a site significant to human culture as a whole, not just of France.
Yes, but it's interesting that the French are less inclined to spend money on fixing it than Americans are.
"Andr Finot, a spokesman for Notre Dame cathedral believes the bulk of the money will need to come from the Americans, millions of whom know Notre Dame and who are less hesitant than the French about giving money to the church. People dont want to give money because of lacit, he says, referring to the strict secularism that infuses French law." That link is to a story from last year about the needed renovations to the Church, and where the money for the current renovations is coming from. The funding to repair the fire damage will probably come from similar channels--the bulk of which will be Americans.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:25 PM
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There are still 400 firefighters trying to contain the fire, and they're saying it's not certain they can save the remaining parts.
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Old 04-15-2019, 03:26 PM
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CBS reporting that a Paris Fire Department spokesman says that nobody went into the building after the fire to save anything. It was already far too dangerous as the roof was already starting to buckle.

ETA: They are just saying that they would risk their lives to save lives, but not risk a human life to save artwork.

Last edited by UltraVires; 04-15-2019 at 03:27 PM.
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