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Old 05-16-2019, 10:10 AM
msmith537 is offline
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I'm sick of job hunting


I've been looking for a job now since last October. About 8 months as of this posting. Fortunately we are ok financially, but I'd still like to start working again. For the most part I generally like working. At least the type of work I do. In fact, the only time I generally don't like my job is when there isn't really any work to do (or too much). But at this point, I am literally sick of job hunting. Here are some of the things I'm sick of:


- Endlessly "tweaking" my resume in order to try and anticipate what will stand out to some stupid HR rep looking at 200 of these things.
- Getting "ghosted" after multiple rounds of interviews.
- Getting cold calls from Indian guys trying to sell me in their broken English on some contract project manager job 2+ hours away at a bill rate half my previous salary.
- Having to spend 20 minutes filling out an online job application for a role I will never hear back from.
- Going on interviews to companies for jobs that I will probably hate.
- Having my time wasted going on multiple interviews at a company, only to be told that I don't have some critical qualification that could have been discovered in the first minute of the first phone call (like you need a "Six Sigma black belt" or "20 years of retail experience".
-Going on rounds of interviews and not getting the job just because there are other candidates and some of them are probably as good as me.
- Having to endure hours on LinkedIn getting bombarded with reposts of Gary Vaynerchuk's musings.
- Enduring the idiotic job recommendations of idiots. Like "have you looked at Google (because I do stuff related to "tech") or "you should start a business" -(because "starting a business" is a great fall back strategy).
- Endlessly answering stupid questions about my job history. Like why did I change jobs so frequently between 2008 and 2013. Or what have I been doing for 8 months (besides jerking off).
- Having to "network" with every jerkoff I ever worked with or met at a convention in the past 20 years.
- Enduring advice on "networking" to get a better job.
- Getting contacted for jobs I am way overqualified for ("manager wants 2-4 years experience" ) or way underqualified for ("Bain Consulting is looking for someone to build their Vietnam practice)
- Getting contacted by multiple recruiters from the same company after I already started interviewing. Like NOW you need a Director of Business Strategy after I've already started the process for some bullshit Engagement Manager job.
- Stupid platitudes from people like "something will turn up" or "people always find a new job". People also go homeless or drive Ubers with a PhD.


Anyhow, that's all I have for now. Feel free to comment or add your own.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:13 AM
Really Not All That Bright is online now
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I sympathize, but after eight months maybe those contract positions might be something you should start looking at until a full-time gig comes around?
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:18 AM
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Ouch.

I hated it too. I depleted our family savings (and the family's patience)... BUT it all worked out! Of course, I suddenly had three jobs come out of the blue on the same Friday afternoon (and all had to hear YES or NO by Monday morning). Took the lowest-paying but most creative job with the best people. And it was more fun than the previous hellhole that I'd been fired from.

Within a couple of months I was healthier (could bike to work), the bank account was back to comfortable levels, and my attitude had totally changed!

It'll happen...
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Really Not All That Bright View Post
I sympathize, but after eight months maybe those contract positions might be something you should start looking at until a full-time gig comes around?
I consider legitimate ones. Most of the ones I get are either too far away (hours, if not another state), or I don't have the background for. It's just spam anyway. If I'm getting four calls from four different people at the same contracting firm, they are likely sending resumes everywhere looking for a hit.

It's not just about "finding a job" either. I'm only 46. I'd still like to have some semblance of a career in an actual company. Plus I want to work on stuff that will continue to build my skills. Not just eking out a living working on the shittiest projects no one wants to touch.


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Ouch.
I hated it too. I depleted our family savings (and the family's patience)... BUT it all worked out! Of course, I suddenly had three jobs come out of the blue on the same Friday afternoon (and all had to hear YES or NO by Monday morning). Took the lowest-paying but most creative job with the best people. And it was more fun than the previous hellhole that I'd been fired from.

Within a couple of months I was healthier (could bike to work), the bank account was back to comfortable levels, and my attitude had totally changed!

It'll happen...

Yeah...for some reason it doesn't feel like it's "happening". Last time I looked for a job 4 years ago, I found one in 4 months, got a significant pay bump, found myself in a much better environment and didn't feel like shooting myself in the face. Usually I could go into an interview and I would know that I was going to get hired. It may take months, but I was usually right. Even though I've been actively interviewing and have several more coming up over the next couple of days, nothing has cliqued.

Somehow over the past couple of years, I've gone from being the sort of candidate companies tried to shoe-horn into cutting edge (or...at least towards the forward edge of the blade) technology roles to where companies are being ridiculously picky.
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:28 PM
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8 months and you haven't gotten any offers, or no acceptable ones?

May I ask what line of work it is and how many interviews you've had? I know you said "tech", but what specifically?
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:41 PM
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I've got you "beat" by a couple of months. Financially we're hemorrhaging money; we've been advised to move elsewhere; i.e. someplace with a lower cost-of-living. (in particular, health insurance costs are killing us) Something we're seriously considering.
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Old 05-16-2019, 02:42 PM
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8 months? Be grateful. I was out of work 4 years. I evaporated my retirement accounts before I finally found full-time work.

A recruiter finally called me up for temp work that led to a permanent position. She had searched online resumes with key words. Nothing else worked. I was on monster and career builder email lists. The jobs I applied for online never got answered. All those helpful hints and tools I got from LinkedIn and the Unemployment Office were shit. All I really had to do was list my contact info and the software I knew how to use on an online form and let Robert Half find me.

Judging from accounting seminars I get to review, there's plenty of job openings in BitCoin, Data Analytics, Robotics, and BlockChain. If you can find training for those fields, go for it. A lot of jobs are becoming obsolete due to tech advances, and that might be your problem.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:22 PM
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Job hunting sucks. There's no way around it. I feel your pain- while I wasn't unemployed, I was still hunting, and I was absolutely astounded at the number of jobs I was qualified for that I couldn't get my foot in the door/get an interview for, and I was astounded by the number of jobs that I was not qualified for that I kept getting notified/called about.

And I really get the whole job history gap questioning frustration. I actually went back to graduate school full time from July 2002-August 2004, and went part-time, and worked some contract stuff and a short job that I was laid off from that Fall. Then from about November of 2004 through about June of 2005, I was unemployed and out of grad school.

No matter how I put it on a resume (and I tried about 3 different schemes), they always got confused by it and thought I had a 2 year gap in my employment history and/or couldn't wrap their heads around the idea of a full-time student. It's like they think everyone's lives and careers follows some kind of completely linear path without gaps or overlaps or anything like that.

About the only advice I have is a really piddly way to finagle the system- on most sites like Monster or Indeed, they usually show more recent resumes first for some reason. So what you do is go every week and tweak your resume just a TINY bit- on mine, I swapped "Dr." for "Drive" in my address back and forth each week.

This made a noticeable difference in the amount of traffic, emails, calls and unfortunately, job related spam that I got.

Last edited by bump; 05-16-2019 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:39 PM
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I empathize. I have no idea why people say it's a great economy just because the u3 and u6 are low. It's hard to find a job and a lot of them aren't seeing wages or benefits go up.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:42 PM
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[QUOTE=Ashtura;21646185]8 months and you haven't gotten any offers, or no acceptable ones?

No. But keep in mind a lot of hiring doesn't go on in November or December. I also had to take about a month off from job hunting to watch my kids (there's a thread about that).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashtura View Post
May I ask what line of work it is and how many interviews you've had? I know you said "tech", but what specifically?
For the past 4 years I was a senior engagement manager in a management consulting firm (think a smaller version of Accenture or Deloitte). Before that I spent two years as a program manager in a technology consulting firm (similar to Sapient or Razorfish).

Long story short, I have a lot of diverse experience in technology "engagement management" and "project management", and I'm also really good at building databases, writing SQL, anything having to do with data analysis.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:56 PM
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No matter how I put it on a resume (and I tried about 3 different schemes), they always got confused by it and thought I had a 2 year gap in my employment history and/or couldn't wrap their heads around the idea of a full-time student.
I've actually been thinking about paying the couple hundred bucks for form a legal corporation and just call myself the Founder & Managing Director to avoid the "gap" question. Maybe even do some actual corp to corp consulting with it (if I get this gig tomorrow).

But, yeah, these dumbass recruiters have a lot of trouble wrapping their brains around anything. It's like talking to Drax from Guardians of the Galaxy. Everything has to be very literal and simplified. Like I was talking to this guy today. He's like "do you have any "IT transformation" experience?" "have you worked at a bank?". Um yeah, all those clients on my resume - Goldman Sachs, State Street, Citi, etc are all "banks". And what do you mean by "IT transformation"? Transforming "what" into "what"? Are they implementing an ERP system? Rebuilding legacy systems using digital technology? "Big Data" migration? Machine Learning process improvement using RPA and blockchain tech?

"Uh..I don't know".


Then my answer is "yes".

Last edited by msmith537; 05-16-2019 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 05-16-2019, 05:11 PM
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I've actually been thinking about paying the couple hundred bucks for form a legal corporation and just call myself the Founder & Managing Director to avoid the "gap" question...
My years freelancing, I didn't have a "legal corporation", I just hung out the ol' shingle.

My point is, just put down that you were working for SmithCo Enterprises.

And if you want to look good, note that you started as an Associate Maven and worked your way up to Senior Maven.


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Old 05-16-2019, 07:03 PM
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I'm self employed, six years or so. I make about 2/3 of what I made at my last w2 job, and I take temp jobs during my slow season. But I don't work for assholes anymore. If an asshole wants to hire me, I tell them no. If it takes a week or two to find out, I fire them.

Ths new economy sucks, but it's also kinda nice.
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:19 PM
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I empathize. I have no idea why people say it's a great economy just because the u3 and u6 are low. It's hard to find a job and a lot of them aren't seeing wages or benefits go up.
Many people, particularly Trump followers, will insist that the economy is doing great because the unemployment rate is so low. But they don't factor in all the people who are still looking for work, homeless people who have no work, and all the people who have a job or more than one job but cannot make a decent living at those jobs. Or the wages aren't so bad at a particular job but it offers no job security or benefits of any kind. And it's probably part time.
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:00 PM
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I can sympathize I was looking for work for 5 months before I got my current job. It still sucks cause I have to travel for my job and I'm not reimbursed or anything. I live at Airbnb's M-F and go home on the weekends.

It's hard out there, my job is as needed but I've been fortunate enough to get full time hours for now. I'm hoping getting more experience in my field I'll be able to get something closer to home in the long-term. When you're down and out looking for work for months on end it really affects your self-esteem and confidence after awhile.

Keep your chin up!
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Last edited by pool; 05-16-2019 at 09:04 PM.
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:04 AM
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You have my sympathy. I've had the luxury of job hunting while holding onto my existing job, and it sucked balls.

I don't think you need to form a corporation or LLC to do some consulting gigs. If you manage to get a gig or two, just say you were freelancing for the last 8 months.
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Old 05-17-2019, 06:51 AM
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A couple for my list of "that was a dodged bullet", from searching for in-house jobs after many years as a contractor:

* Company's interview process takes several months but, once they make a decision, they want me to start on Monday despite me having indicated I have a notice period of X days. They get pissy.
Why would I want to work for people who expect their future employees to breach contracts, and who aren't willing to accord to others the courtesies they expect to receive?

* I'm abroad. You know I'm abroad. You still expect me to be in-country for an in-person interview as the first step in the selection process. On a Wednesday.
And I want a purple flying unicorn.

* Company has offered a salary range of X to Y. I ask for a value in that range. After several rounds of hoops and interviews, they tell me they will only pay Z, where Z is lower than the published minimum.
Where do you think you are, the souk?

Last edited by Nava; 05-17-2019 at 06:54 AM.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:44 AM
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After my accident, I couldn't work for a year, and after two years with no luck, I took a temporary, part-time job as a store cashier.

That was 5 1/2 years ago. I now work there on a permanent, full time basis.
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:00 AM
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[QUOTE=msmith537;21646466]
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Originally Posted by Ashtura View Post
8 months and you haven't gotten any offers, or no acceptable ones?

No. But keep in mind a lot of hiring doesn't go on in November or December. I also had to take about a month off from job hunting to watch my kids (there's a thread about that).




For the past 4 years I was a senior engagement manager in a management consulting firm (think a smaller version of Accenture or Deloitte). Before that I spent two years as a program manager in a technology consulting firm (similar to Sapient or Razorfish).

Long story short, I have a lot of diverse experience in technology "engagement management" and "project management", and I'm also really good at building databases, writing SQL, anything having to do with data analysis.
Oh, management. That's tough. Particularly since I don't have any experience in it. Would you be comfortable and happy doing SQL development full time? If so, Could you pad out a resume focusing on your SQL development? I'm not saying lie, but if you really are good at it, the main concern is if you can do the job. You might get more bites.
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:01 AM
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[QUOTE=Ashtura;21647634]
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Oh, management. That's tough. Particularly since I don't have any experience in it. Would you be comfortable and happy doing SQL development full time? If so, Could you pad out a resume focusing on your SQL development? I'm not saying lie, but if you really are good at it, the main concern is if you can do the job. You might get more bites.
And then be promoted to management.
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Old 05-17-2019, 12:37 PM
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On one hand, I sympathize, since I've been in the same boat for a long time. I'm currently working a low paying, hard work job, just to keep insurance and try (and fail) to make ends meet.

On the other hand, I recall you being one of those people who told me and others that if we'd been unable to find a job, it was entirely our own faults for not keeping our skills current and other reasons, citing yourself as an example of having zero difficulties in finding jobs.

Also, it is increasingly obvious that American corporations are NOT hiring older workers these days. If you're in your 50's or older, you're screwed.
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Old 05-17-2019, 01:50 PM
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Job hunting is as stressful as dating. Except that the possibility of sex is a lot creepier.
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Old 05-17-2019, 08:33 PM
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On one hand, I sympathize, since I've been in the same boat for a long time. I'm currently working a low paying, hard work job, just to keep insurance and try (and fail) to make ends meet.

On the other hand, I recall you being one of those people who told me and others that if we'd been unable to find a job, it was entirely our own faults for not keeping our skills current and other reasons, citing yourself as an example of having zero difficulties in finding jobs.

Also, it is increasingly obvious that American corporations are NOT hiring older workers these days. If you're in your 50's or older, you're screwed.
Yes, I have tasted my own medicine, and it is bitter.

But to a certain extent, I don't think I'm wrong. I think one of the reasons I'm having difficulties is that the firm I worked for was largely unchanged from when it was founded by a couple of ex Accenture alums 15 years ago. Well, the consulting world has changed a lot since then.

Also, the world is changing a lot faster than it used to IMHO. So I think that unless you work for a cutting edge company like Google or Amazon or are constantly re-skilling on your own, it's hard for most people to keep up. Like I was talking to a young college alumni from my school who was asking for advice on finding his first Wall Street job with a background in AI and machine learning. I'm like, I don't know. Answer your emails, accept the highest offer and then hire me and the rest of these people who will be replaced by software and trading algorithms.

Last edited by msmith537; 05-17-2019 at 08:34 PM.
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:00 PM
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Yes, I have tasted my own medicine, and it is bitter.

But to a certain extent, I don't think I'm wrong. I think one of the reasons I'm having difficulties is that the firm I worked for was largely unchanged from when it was founded by a couple of ex Accenture alums 15 years ago. Well, the consulting world has changed a lot since then.

Also, the world is changing a lot faster than it used to IMHO. So I think that unless you work for a cutting edge company like Google or Amazon or are constantly re-skilling on your own, it's hard for most people to keep up. Like I was talking to a young college alumni from my school who was asking for advice on finding his first Wall Street job with a background in AI and machine learning. I'm like, I don't know. Answer your emails, accept the highest offer and then hire me and the rest of these people who will be replaced by software and trading algorithms.
Quoted for truth. I just had a meeting with my dean at our community college, and they'd like us to start coming up with material and courses and degrees in AI and data mining. We initially just rolled our eyes (at least to ourselves), but the industry guys there at the meeting really wanted us to start AI training at a younger age. (And the university we feed into still wants our students to learn assembly language, argh.)

As for the job search, keep on plugging. I went through a layoff myself ten years ago at a large "three-letter" computer company until my instructor position rolled into my lap. I've also had the "opportunity" to occasionally teach job-seeking courses here, but since it's at a community college, it's focused on auto-techs and the like. Even high-demand trades skills go through some of the same frustrations as the OP.
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:20 PM
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From what I've seen, the mid-level PMO/Delivery management jobs at the Sapients / Merkles / BMCs / etc of the world in the top tier cities in North America are getting scarce. Why would you pay a guy in in New York or SF $250k / year to run a team in Chennai when you could pay a guy in Dallas $120k to do it?

Have you looked in to smaller firms or local/regional mid-sized operations? People in my mid-sized global firm (think Sapient) are always getting poached by the local hospitals and universities. Back when I worked for a much smaller firm, the owners usually got a hard on every time a former big swinging dick Elsevier or one of P&G's spinoffs threw their resume in the ring for an open slot on our senior management team.
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Old 05-17-2019, 09:26 PM
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Also, the last company I worked for was founded by middle managers at IBM who got the Wrath Of Gerstner in the mid-90s. Most of them retired at 60 with $1-3m in the bank. The principal sold the place a couple of years ago for roughly $50m at 60 years old. Not bad.
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Old 05-18-2019, 07:37 AM
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From what I've seen, the mid-level PMO/Delivery management jobs at the Sapients / Merkles / BMCs / etc of the world in the top tier cities in North America are getting scarce. Why would you pay a guy in in New York or SF $250k / year to run a team in Chennai when you could pay a guy in Dallas $120k to do it?

Have you looked in to smaller firms or local/regional mid-sized operations? People in my mid-sized global firm (think Sapient) are always getting poached by the local hospitals and universities. Back when I worked for a much smaller firm, the owners usually got a hard on every time a former big swinging dick Elsevier or one of P&G's spinoffs threw their resume in the ring for an open slot on our senior management team.

Is Sapient still "mid sized" after the Publicis Sapient merger?

Funny enough, I met a senior delivery director from Merkle at a PMI event shortly after I got laid off. It led to some interviews, but I think he lost his job a few weeks later.


$250k seems a bit high for any job. Even in New York. Unless you are very senior and responsible for bringing in a lot of business. I mean it's hard to tell these days with all the title inflation.


I actually had two interviews that went really well yesterday:
- Engagement manager at a cloud provider (been getting a number of interviews at these sort of companies, which I think is a good fit). So probably next step is more phone interview and then a bunch of in person interviews.

Here's something I didn't like. By happenstance, another recruiter from the same company emailed me about a different job which might also be a fit. I told him that I was already going through the process (figure it's better to be transparent about these sort of things). He didn't even write back an acknowledgement like "ok, thanks for letting me know".


The other job is a senior project manager contract for a gigantic project being run by a subsidiary of a giant software company. The scale and the tech involved (big data, cloud, IoT, analytics) would make this a pretty great resume builder. Heck, if it goes well, it's such a long term project that I might not need a resume again. Anyhow, feedback was really good. Should find out if I'm "the guy" Monday.
  #28  
Old 05-18-2019, 07:51 AM
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You have a STEM degree, a stint in a big consulting firm, start-up experience and you're an upper middle-class straight white male in his 30s/40s while the US has a 3.6% unemployment rate and you've been looking for work for 8 months? Is that tremendously back luck or is there something else?
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Old 05-18-2019, 09:21 AM
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Job hunting sucks. There's no way around it. I feel your pain- while I wasn't unemployed, I was still hunting, and I was absolutely astounded at the number of jobs I was qualified for that I couldn't get my foot in the door/get an interview for, and I was astounded by the number of jobs that I was not qualified for that I kept getting notified/called about.

And I really get the whole job history gap questioning frustration. I actually went back to graduate school full time from July 2002-August 2004, and went part-time, and worked some contract stuff and a short job that I was laid off from that Fall. Then from about November of 2004 through about June of 2005, I was unemployed and out of grad school.

No matter how I put it on a resume (and I tried about 3 different schemes), they always got confused by it and thought I had a 2 year gap in my employment history and/or couldn't wrap their heads around the idea of a full-time student. It's like they think everyone's lives and careers follows some kind of completely linear path without gaps or overlaps or anything like that.

About the only advice I have is a really piddly way to finagle the system- on most sites like Monster or Indeed, they usually show more recent resumes first for some reason. So what you do is go every week and tweak your resume just a TINY bit- on mine, I swapped "Dr." for "Drive" in my address back and forth each week.

This made a noticeable difference in the amount of traffic, emails, calls and unfortunately, job related spam that I got.
No matter what people say a lot of it has to do with luck and timing. A LOT of it.
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Old 05-18-2019, 10:48 AM
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Yes, I have tasted my own medicine, and it is bitter.
One thing I've noticed is that people who've been employed for many years get the recruiter emails (as we all do, particularly if you're on LinkedIn) and think "I get ten job offers a day, how hard could it be?" Not realizing that the large majority of unsolicited recruiter emails are just fishing for resumes to fill their database/pipeline, and/or shotgunning those emails out to all emails they can scrape off LinkedIn/Indeed/Monster/whatever. It's not until you're actually job hunting and start to reply to those emails that you realize they're not viable.
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Old 05-18-2019, 04:50 PM
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Quoted for truth. I just had a meeting with my dean at our community college, and they'd like us to start coming up with material and courses and degrees in AI and data mining. We initially just rolled our eyes (at least to ourselves), but the industry guys there at the meeting really wanted us to start AI training at a younger age. (And the university we feed into still wants our students to learn assembly language, argh.)
Be thankful that the industry types don't want you to teach specific applications they need now. Data mining is a really good thing to teach. I taught myself data mining and it made me highly valued the last five years before I retired.
Since most managers don't understand it at all, a student with training might be able to get a job even if the business doesn't have enough data to do real data mining on. Don't knock it.
What are they calling AI these days? Is it real AI or just heuristics?

Don't knock assembler. Even if they never use it, it gives them a good model of what is going on under the hood, and that is valuable forever. I learned assembler 50 years ago and never regretted it.
  #32  
Old 05-18-2019, 05:39 PM
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I also sympathize with the OP. I was looking for about the same amount of time. Read somewhere that you can expect about a month's search for every $10K in salary you expect. What annoyed me most about interviewing were the one's who subtly implied that I was too old. "We're looking for someone with energy who will move forward with our company." Translation: "You'll be dead soon, you gray-haired fuck."

I finally gave up after eight months and started selling RVs; and of course, I got a job offer about two months into that gig.
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Old 05-18-2019, 10:30 PM
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You have a STEM degree, a stint in a big consulting firm, start-up experience and you're an upper middle-class straight white male in his 30s/40s while the US has a 3.6% unemployment rate and you've been looking for work for 8 months? Is that tremendously back luck or is there something else?
You forgot the MBA and experience consulting with Wall Street firms.

Maybe I suck at modern job hunting.

Tell you what. If you have any advice on finding a job in Manhattan within 90 days that pays in the neighborhood of $200k a year that doesn't involve writing (a lot of)code, I'd be happy to hear it.


I think the serious answer is that I have kind of a "middle" background for the kind of work I do. A lot of my peers come from better schools, better consulting firms, top tier tech companies or investment banks. But if I try for a less "competitive" job, the recruiter may get turned off by my "non-traditional" work history (IOW, they want to see 15 years spent doing the same job and a similar company).
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:19 AM
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pays in the neighborhood of $200k a year
My thoughts and prayers are with you.
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:26 AM
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I loath recruiters. Most of them, at least. I knew a couple who were pretty good but so many of them were just worthless and they didn’t give a shit about doing a good job.

They would waste everyone’s time by not finding out the real requirements or understanding the qualifications. I can understand not being experts on every field, for for hell’s sake, learn the basics.
  #36  
Old 05-19-2019, 05:26 AM
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msmith537,

Have you considered that you find every job offer unappealing not because of their individual characteristics but because 2 decades of riches & bitches is turning out less satisfying over time than you expected?

Provided the necessities of life were secured, what objectives would you be willing to work towards even if no one was paying you? Take the time to think on what that would mean to you and that will give you cues on where to start.
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Old 05-19-2019, 06:43 AM
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Like I was talking to this guy today. He's like "do you have any "IT transformation" experience?" "have you worked at a bank?". Um yeah, all those clients on my resume - Goldman Sachs, State Street, Citi, etc are all "banks". And what do you mean by "IT transformation"? Transforming "what" into "what"? Are they implementing an ERP system? Rebuilding legacy systems using digital technology? "Big Data" migration? Machine Learning process improvement using RPA and blockchain tech?

"Uh..I don't know".


Then my answer is "yes".
Yeah recruiters never (almost never) understand the role they are trying to fill. Recruiters are one step removed from HR, and HR never understood what role they were trying to fill in the first place. It's just keywords and whistles to them.

I don't have a suggestion for you except to try to talk to people that matter in the organization. Talk to the people in charge, if you can find a way to do that.
  #38  
Old 05-19-2019, 11:36 AM
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msmith537,

Have you considered that you find every job offer unappealing not because of their individual characteristics but because 2 decades of riches & bitches is turning out less satisfying over time than you expected?

Provided the necessities of life were secured, what objectives would you be willing to work towards even if no one was paying you? Take the time to think on what that would mean to you and that will give you cues on where to start.
Obviously, the place to start is the point at which the necessities of life are secured.

This is why I buy my (1) Megamillions and (1) Powerball tickets twice per week (and call Dibs on the jackpot, just in case).
  #39  
Old 05-19-2019, 12:04 PM
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Obviously, the place to start is the point at which the necessities of life are secured.

This is why I buy my (1) Megamillions and (1) Powerball tickets twice per week (and call Dibs on the jackpot, just in case).
OP is complaining about not getting a 200K/year job. Adjusted for cost of living, if your household makes 100K/year and you're not satisfied, it's probably because it's lacking something you can't buy.

Aren't there organisations which would greatly benefit from OP's valuable skills but can't afford it?

Some of OP's recent threads are titled "The Future is Always "Worse"'
Constantly feeling like you "should be doing something else"', "Was there ever a time in your memory when people were optimistic about the future/economy?", "According to The Economist, 40% of jobs are "bullshit"'

That sounds like either depression or a midlife crisis. Trying to solve that thru getting a 200K/year job is probably going to be as effective as thru getting a sports car or a leather jacket to wear on his Harley.

Last edited by MichaelEmouse; 05-19-2019 at 12:06 PM.
  #40  
Old 05-19-2019, 01:11 PM
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OP is complaining about not getting a 200K/year job. Adjusted for cost of living, if your household makes 100K/year and you're not satisfied, it's probably because it's lacking something you can't buy.

Aren't there organisations which would greatly benefit from OP's valuable skills but can't afford it?

Some of OP's recent threads are titled "The Future is Always "Worse"'
Constantly feeling like you "should be doing something else"', "Was there ever a time in your memory when people were optimistic about the future/economy?", "According to The Economist, 40% of jobs are "bullshit"'

That sounds like either depression or a midlife crisis. Trying to solve that thru getting a 200K/year job is probably going to be as effective as thru getting a sports car or a leather jacket to wear on his Harley.
OP also has 2 kids to support and lives in NYC which is very expensive. I'm sure having 2 kids and feeling like he can't contribute to the household is psychologically stressful. I was under the impression that in OPs field that layoffs occurred every ~5 years or so. So I would've assumed he was accustomed to it.
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  #41  
Old 05-19-2019, 01:20 PM
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I'm sure having 2 kids and feeling like he can't contribute to the household is psychologically stressful.
Your original sentence said something along the lines of: "having the wife be the breadwinner is psychologically stressful" which I think this is the real knot of it; Self-image, ego and the fear of losing esteem from friends & family. Those are completely understandable and legitimate concerns. They're concerns which are going to be increasing salient as gender relations change.

I remember OP mentioning on at least two occasions that the consulting bros and finance bros he hung out with had a tendency to date/marry waitresses and strippers. I don't know if OP was at all like his friends in that regard but that suggests a strong psychological desire to "wear the pants" in the relationship. Feeling like you can't be the breadwinner/pants wearer of the household must be difficult for someone who may have defined their life ambitions primarily in terms of money and status.

Last edited by MichaelEmouse; 05-19-2019 at 01:21 PM.
  #42  
Old 05-19-2019, 02:59 PM
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You forgot the MBA and experience consulting with Wall Street firms.

Maybe I suck at modern job hunting.

Tell you what. If you have any advice on finding a job in Manhattan within 90 days that pays in the neighborhood of $200k a year that doesn't involve writing (a lot of)code, I'd be happy to hear it.


I think the serious answer is that I have kind of a "middle" background for the kind of work I do. A lot of my peers come from better schools, better consulting firms, top tier tech companies or investment banks. But if I try for a less "competitive" job, the recruiter may get turned off by my "non-traditional" work history (IOW, they want to see 15 years spent doing the same job and a similar company).
Move to the Midwest. Seriously.

The hotshot coders and mid-level Accenture / McKinsey alumns in their early 30's are going to gravitate to the costs no matter what, and you're going to be in direct competition with them.

My Glassdoor and Linkedin job searches are full of PM, PMO, Engagement, etc jobs for relatively stable enterprises in the $90k-$120k range. That money goes a hell of a lot farther in St. Louis than in Manhattan or Brooklyn... or even Queens. Mid-sized cities in flyover country can be pretty decent places to raise a couple of kids if you have that kind of coin.
  #43  
Old 05-19-2019, 08:45 PM
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msmith537,

Have you considered that you find every job offer unappealing not because of their individual characteristics but because 2 decades of riches & bitches is turning out less satisfying over time than you expected?
No, because your question is stupid. I am a married family man and father of two small children. I don't live some sort of Wolf of Wall Street American Psycho d-bag lifestyle. Sure, maybe a decade ago some of my friends and I tended to party a bit. But most of us have settle down a bit.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelEmouse View Post
Provided the necessities of life were secured, what objectives would you be willing to work towards even if no one was paying you? Take the time to think on what that would mean to you and that will give you cues on where to start.
That's a bullshit question because if everyone had their necessities of life secured, no one would clean shit for a living. The reality is that, unless you have a trust fund, no one is going to secure your financials for you. So given that I have to work, what I want is to find a job that's interesting, pays well, and ideally doesn't involve working with the general public or too many total jerkoffs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelEmouse
Your original sentence said something along the lines of: "having the wife be the breadwinner is psychologically stressful" which I think this is the real knot of it; Self-image, ego and the fear of losing esteem from friends & family. Those are completely understandable and legitimate concerns. They're concerns which are going to be increasing salient as gender relations change.
I'm not really worried about losing esteem from family & friends. My true friends are my friends regardless. I'm also not really worried about my wife being the breadwinner.

But, like a lot of people, I generally derive some sense of purpose from having a job to do and doing it well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Wesley Clark
OP also has 2 kids to support and lives in NYC which is very expensive. I'm sure having 2 kids and feeling like he can't contribute to the household is psychologically stressful. I was under the impression that in OPs field that layoffs occurred every ~5 years or so. So I would've assumed he was accustomed to it.
It seems to happen in my field more frequently than most. A lot of it is bad luck. Get a bad client or not be staffed on a project during a downturn and you can find yourself "counselled out". I see a lot of my friends who end up changing jobs every 1-5 years because of that. It still sucks though. Like any job, you develop friendships or at least a network of people and you learn how their business runs. Then you have to start over at some other firm.

And yet, there are some people who manage to last in these companies for years and years. Some of them are complete idiots. But they manage to find some rainmaker who brings in business for them, and manage to not get staffed on some shitty client.



Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelEmouse
OP is complaining about not getting a 200K/year job.
That includes my bonus and other perks.

Sorry if I offended your delicate sensibilities. In spite of some setbacks in my career, I have generally enjoyed increased compensation over the past 20+ years and that is around what I was making. Someone with my experience in my field In NYC can make anywhere from $150k to $225k or more (base). FWIW, I'm really at a point where I would be transitioning more into a "business development" role, so my comp would depend more on how much sales I could generate. And to be honest, that isn't my thing really. So I would certainly entertain a lower comp for certain lifestyle benefits like less travel, better hours, or just a generally good culture to work in.
  #44  
Old 05-20-2019, 07:56 AM
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Sorry if I offended your delicate sensibilities.
You're part of the bros who caused the 2008 crash, with all the political consequences we're seeing today. Then you complain about capitalism. And what's your complaint? That it won't give you a $200K/year job. I gotta admit that causes an itch in me.
  #45  
Old 05-20-2019, 08:09 AM
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My husband started working for Gartner about eighteen months ago. They are growing like crazy. But a word of warning....

The interview process is onerous. And long. You will invest a ton of time in the interview process - and probably not get hired.

They have positions for analysts, but they also have a consulting arm.
  #46  
Old 05-20-2019, 10:02 AM
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To the OP.

You probably haven't noticed me here. I don't post all that much. I run into your user name a lot because we have similar work backgrounds, although I have spent most of my career in staff positions.

User names usually don't stick with me unless the poster is unusually and consistently witty, wise, annoying, or wrong. Your name has stuck with me because your posts in business-related threads have consistently, based on my experiences and in my opinion, trended toward the annoying and wrong side of that list.

I'm not going to bother looking for examples. Many of your posts have left me wondering how someone with your personality and beliefs about how things work (and ought to work) in the business world had a job at all.

If the attitudes that you display here on SDMB about the business world and your fellow man make their way into your communications with prospective employers, you may never find a job.
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  #47  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:12 AM
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You're part of the bros who caused the 2008 crash, with all the political consequences we're seeing today. Then you complain about capitalism. And what's your complaint? That it won't give you a $200K/year job. I gotta admit that causes an itch in me.

Actually, up until 2008, my "bros" and I worked mostly on consulting engagements investigating fraud, anti-money laundering, financial crimes and other regulatory stuff. For the past several years, I've been working on an engagement with a group of banks and regulators to try and prevent what happened in 2008 from happening again. At least in the derivatives market.

Dick



Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerosa
My husband started working for Gartner about eighteen months ago. They are growing like crazy. But a word of warning....

The interview process is onerous. And long. You will invest a ton of time in the interview process - and probably not get hired.
I'm not opposed to such a job. I've been contacted months ago by Gartner. Also Capgemini, Cognizant, KPMG, a few others. As you say, they have long hiring cycles that often go nowhere.
  #48  
Old 05-20-2019, 11:41 AM
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Actually, up until 2008, my "bros" and I worked mostly on consulting engagements investigating fraud, anti-money laundering, financial crimes and other regulatory stuff. For the past several years, I've been working on an engagement with a group of banks and regulators to try and prevent what happened in 2008 from happening again. At least in the derivatives market.
Presented that way, that sounds much better than I remembered you describe your job where you presented consulting as mainly being about pushing software.




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Dick
Well, you're not wrong. Touché, sir.

Last edited by MichaelEmouse; 05-20-2019 at 11:43 AM.
  #49  
Old 05-20-2019, 12:53 PM
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Presented that way, that sounds much better than I remembered you describe your job where you presented consulting as mainly being about pushing software.
Well, that's not necessarily wrong either. But it was software and services related to what I described. There's nothing wrong with that.

I don't want to be too defensive. It's not like the consulting industry hasn't had it's share of controversy. And truth be told, the firm I worked for in 2008 did have a bit of a "bro" culture that probably wouldn't fly these days.




Quote:
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To the OP.

You probably haven't noticed me here. I don't post all that much. I run into your user name a lot because we have similar work backgrounds, although I have spent most of my career in staff positions.

User names usually don't stick with me unless the poster is unusually and consistently witty, wise, annoying, or wrong. Your name has stuck with me because your posts in business-related threads have consistently, based on my experiences and in my opinion, trended toward the annoying and wrong side of that list.

I'm not going to bother looking for examples. Many of your posts have left me wondering how someone with your personality and beliefs about how things work (and ought to work) in the business world had a job at all.

If the attitudes that you display here on SDMB about the business world and your fellow man make their way into your communications with prospective employers, you may never find a job.
I don't know how to respond to that because I don't know what specific posts or opinions you are referring to. Are you referring to actual discussions on business or career, random political musings or me simply venting about personal or professional frustrations? And I should even consider your opinion at all, not knowing anything about your business experience?

So it's pretty weird that you would come in here just to tell someone you don't know how "wrong" and "annoying" their posts are.

But perhaps you are right. Maybe I don't really know that much about business. At least not how it really works in practice.
  #50  
Old 05-20-2019, 01:55 PM
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I have had a union job for 13 years, will probably have it for another 13. It isn't high status and I am sure many people think I am an idiot for working for a living( though it actually isn't simple and easy), but I make 100k and, thanks to my math background, have been able to leverage that into a pretty good situation. I will likely retire a millionaire (with a pension!), and will very much enjoy being the millionaire idiot who didn't know better than to work for a living.

Not sure if the OP would consider or even can change, but there is more to life than office jobs. Hate job seeking? Get a union job. It is extra stable.

My gf has a PhD, we take turns wearing the pants I guess. Mostly I focus on blissing out here in the Mountain West. It isn't that bad. Really!
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