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Old 06-21-2019, 09:42 AM
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"License, proof of insurance, and registration please." Why registration?


Oklahoma is about to join the ranks of states that require that you show proof of registration when being stopped by an LEO. What does showing registration accomplish? They can get if and who the car is registered to from the tag and even if I'm not the owner, I can still drive a friend's car with their permission. The tag should also tell if the vehicle is stolen. What am I missing?
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:44 AM
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For that matter, why do you need proof of insurance?

In the UK, police can tell from the plate if the car is taxed and insured. Databases are an amazing thing!

(To be fair, we're not even required to carry our driving licenses, or any other form of ID).
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:46 AM
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License plates are removable. They don't have the make, type, and color of the car and VIN printed on them so you can switch license plates with a different car. That can be found out by calling in the license plate number but with the registration in can be determined on the road without any communications.

Last edited by TriPolar; 06-21-2019 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by SanVito View Post
For that matter, why do you need proof of insurance?

In the UK, police can tell from the plate if the car is taxed and insured. Databases are an amazing thing!

(To be fair, we're not even required to carry our driving licenses or any other form of ID).
They don't even need to stop you as a camera can scan the plate and almost instantly give make, model, colour and year of the car, followed by the Registered Keeper's name and details and whether it's insured (and for whom, as most non-business insurance here is for named drivers only).

As a consequence, licence plate theft or cloning has become a thing.

Last edited by bob++; 06-21-2019 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SanVito View Post
For that matter, why do you need proof of insurance?

In the UK, police can tell from the plate if the car is taxed and insured. Databases are an amazing thing!

(To be fair, we're not even required to carry our driving licenses, or any other form of ID).
Non-residents never can believe that there are 50 separate databases in the U.S. Plus a possible separate federal database, which usually does not exist.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bob++ View Post
and whether it's insured (and for whom, as most non-business insurance here is for named drivers only).
Are you saying that if you borrow your brother's or a neighbor's car you wouldn't be driving insured unless you happened to be named on the insurance policy? I'd think there would be all kinds of accidents with a driver uninsured.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:07 AM
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..What does showing registration accomplish? ...
That's a good question, because the VIN can be run and that information found already. "Show me a document that can be forged" seems like wheel spinning to me.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:07 AM
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Are you saying that if you borrow your brother's or a neighbor's car you wouldn't be driving insured unless you happened to be named on the insurance policy? I'd think there would be all kinds of accidents with a driver uninsured.
My own (UK) insurance allows me to drive other people's cars (with their permission) and be covered under my own policy. This is cheaper than letting other non-named people drive my car on my insurance, although both are available.

If I do drive someone else's car, there is a limit on how much they will pay out for the car I'm driving - it's quite high, but they wouldn't pay to replace a Bugatti Veyron that my mate lends me for the weekend if I total it. They would pay any third party costs as usual, though.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Nars Glinley View Post
Oklahoma is about to join the ranks of states that require that you show proof of registration when being stopped by an LEO.
Do you have a cite for this?

I was hoping that an article explaining that this was the case might include an explanation, or at least a hint, of why it was the case; but Google has failed me.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:37 AM
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Do you have a cite for this?

I was hoping that an article explaining that this was the case might include an explanation, or at least a hint, of why it was the case; but Google has failed me.
I only have a cite that says that Oklahoma is implementing. Nothing I've found indicates the reasoning. Hence the thread.

Cite.

Quote:
Under the new law, Oklahomans will now also be required to carry their annual certificates of registration in their cars at all times. This is issued at the time of initial registration and annually when the vehicle registration is renewed.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:58 AM
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Illinois does not require drivers of non-commercial vehicles to have registrations in their cars. This requirement often catches Illinois drivers by surprise when they drive out-of-state.
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Old 06-21-2019, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SanVito View Post
For that matter, why do you need proof of insurance?

In the UK, police can tell from the plate if the car is taxed and insured. Databases are an amazing thing!

(To be fair, we're not even required to carry our driving licenses, or any other form of ID).
Specifically in my state we do not have a database that covers insurance. You have to provide proof or if we are willing to bend over backwards we can put in a personal call to the individual insurance company. We are under no obligation to do this.
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Old 06-21-2019, 01:48 PM
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Specifically in my state we do not have a database that covers insurance. You have to provide proof or if we are willing to bend over backwards we can put in a personal call to the individual insurance company. We are under no obligation to do this.
I had a roadside 'chat' with one of your brethren, just at the edge of Pork roll territory; he specifically stated he didn't need proof of insurance for an out of state vehicle. (Ins card stays in the glove compartment while license & registration is in wallet, as I was always taught never to leave registration in the car).
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Old 06-21-2019, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by SanVito View Post
For that matter, why do you need proof of insurance?

In the UK, police can tell from the plate if the car is taxed and insured. Databases are an amazing thing!

(To be fair, we're not even required to carry our driving licenses, or any other form of ID).
I'm really bad about putting the new sticker on my car when I renew my registration. Like really bad. Over the years, I've been stopped at least 3 or 4 times. I just can't seem to get around to putting it on in a timely manner.

Anyway, I was out a few weeks ago, with my months-old expired registration tag. I was stopped at a red light with my brother when we noticed a motorcycle cop filling up at the gas station at that corner. We were wondering why he was filling up at a public station -- especially since a large police station was just about half a mile away. Then, I noticed that he'd pulled out of the gas station and was now sitting directly behind me. I could see that he was keying something into the key pad on his handlebars (are they called that on motorcycles?).

I'm sure he was looking me up and noticing that, yes, even though my tag was old, my registration was up-to-date. No real need to pull me over and do the whole song-and-dance. I mentioned it to my brother, and he put my tag on as soon as we got home.

Last edited by carrps; 06-21-2019 at 01:53 PM.
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Old 06-21-2019, 01:58 PM
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For that matter, why do you need proof of insurance?
If you and I have a collision, and we are both insured, our insurance companies will work out who is responsible for what, and all of the repair bills and medical bills will be covered. If I have no insurance, your insurance company will get stuck with your bills, and they will raise your rates next year. Uninsured motorists make things more expensive for everybody. It is a common problem in states with large populations of illegal immigrants.
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Old 06-21-2019, 02:07 PM
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If you and I have a collision, and we are both insured, our insurance companies will work out who is responsible for what, and all of the repair bills and medical bills will be covered. If I have no insurance, your insurance company will get stuck with your bills, and they will raise your rates next year. Uninsured motorists make things more expensive for everybody. It is a common problem in states with large populations of illegal immigrants.
The question was why you have to have proof of insurance, not why you have to have insurance.
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Old 06-21-2019, 02:07 PM
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I read that question less as why do you need insurance, and more like why do you need to carry the proof.

(Same as Thudlow Boink)

Last edited by bobot; 06-21-2019 at 02:09 PM.
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Old 06-21-2019, 02:22 PM
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[Moderating]

This thread is about insurance, not illegal immigration. Illegal immigrants can have insurance, and legal residents can lack insurance. Let's stay on topic.
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Old 06-21-2019, 03:12 PM
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Are you saying that if you borrow your brother's or a neighbor's car you wouldn't be driving insured unless you happened to be named on the insurance policy? I'd think there would be all kinds of accidents with a driver uninsured.
It depends on your insurance policy.

The insurance policy I have for me and my vehicles ONLY covers me in my vehicles - it does not cover someone else driving my vehicles, nor does it cover me driving someone else's vehicles. In return for all that, I get very low rates which, being on the low end of middle class and insuring two vehicles is of some importance to me.

It's also why when I rent a car I get the optional insurance they offer - because otherwise I'd be uninsured driving their car. I rent seldom enough that even with that extra cost I still come out ahead.

You can, if you desire, purchase policies that cover you regardless of which/whose vehicle you're driving (I have a friend with a commercial driver's license who has one of these because he's always driving different vehicles for work as well as for private use). You can purchase polices that cover whomever is driving your vehicle. You can purchase policies that do both. Of course, you will pay for all that.

There is also coverage for "uninsured drivers" which is to cover you (as an insured driver) if you're hit by someone uninsured.

Yes, I'm sure there is a simpler way to do all this, but this is America where the masses seem to like complications.
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Old 06-21-2019, 03:51 PM
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Are you saying that if you borrow your brother's or a neighbor's car you wouldn't be driving insured unless you happened to be named on the insurance policy? I'd think there would be all kinds of accidents with a driver uninsured.
If you're under around 25, you're almost certainly only allowed to drive cars where you're named on the insurance, after that age many companies (though not all) give 3rd party as default on any vehicle loaned to you. One I had a few years ago, intriguingly, covered me to drive other vehicles 'in an emergency only' but nowhere in any of the documents did it define an emergency.

We generally just don't borrow cars much. It's something that always stuck out to me watching films set in US schools, teens all having cars and just causally borrowing friends' cars. None of my friends even owned a car as a teen- insurance is so expensive for a teenager, you can easily pay over £1000 for a year's 3rd party fire and theft* insurance for a 17 year old. It's a lot cheaper to get added to parents insurance, presumably because the odds of you driving like a maniac are presumed to be lower, so that's what we all did until the price dropped when we got older.

Both the driver of an uninsured vehicle and the person who loaned them the car can get a fine and driving licence points- get enough points and you'll likely lose your licence. Being caught driving uninsured in the first two years after passing your test would usually mean enough points to have your licence revoked, with a 2 year wait before you can reapply.

*Often the cheapest option- slightly cheaper than 3rd party only, presumably because not many companies offer 3rd party only.
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Old 06-21-2019, 08:11 PM
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I had a roadside 'chat' with one of your brethren, just at the edge of Pork roll territory; he specifically stated he didn't need proof of insurance for an out of state vehicle. (Ins card stays in the glove compartment while license & registration is in wallet, as I was always taught never to leave registration in the car).
Right. For out of state registered vehicles we canít enforce our state laws on that vehicle. Obviously things having to do with unsafe operation like careless driving arenít included but statutes pertaining to registration, documents, insurance and equipment canít be enforced.
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Old 06-21-2019, 09:58 PM
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"License, proof of insurance, and registration please." Why registration?


Why not for insurance? Why can't New Jersey provide that every vehicle driven in a public street in NJ must have $xxx,xxx of insurance coverage?

And why not equipment standards?
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:21 PM
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Illinois does not require drivers of non-commercial vehicles to have registrations in their cars. This requirement often catches Illinois drivers by surprise when they drive out-of-state.
As an out-of-state driver passing through am I beholden to that state's requirments on this?

For instance, some states mandate a front license plate and others do not. Do I need to mount a front plate in states I pass through?

Isn't this an issue with transporting guns too? If you legally own your gun in your state you can travel without needing to read local laws of every place you pass through?

Let's make a ridiculous hypothetical for fun and illustration:

Illinois decides to mandate than all drivers have a copy of their high school transcripts in the car. You are from Indiana and driving to Wisconsin (passing through Illinois). Do you need to dig up a copy of your high school transcripts before heading through Illinois?

Now imagine all 50 states had some bizzaro requirements unique to each state because they decide it is a great revenue generator to bust unwary out-of-state drivers with. It would quickly become a nightmare.
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Old 06-21-2019, 10:55 PM
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If there's a monetary penalty for not having it on you, it looks to me like the new statute aims to create more revenue from the same # of interactions; they can't get away w/ pulling you over on suspicion of not having this piece of paper in your car. If they can hit drivers w/ more fines w/o having to pull more of them over in order to make that money, they're happy.
Likewise, it's a good way to keep poor people poor and generating revenue for the city/county/state in the way of fines, fees, bail, cheap prison labor, juicy jail service contracts for friends of powerful people and a slush fund or two for the sheriff to use as he wants instead of paying for inmate food.
Did they recently get rid of a civil forfeiture law? That may be income they have to make up now that they've fattened on its teat.
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Old 06-21-2019, 11:59 PM
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Non-residents never can believe that there are 50 separate databases in the U.S. Plus a possible separate federal database, which usually does not exist.
That's not really true anymore though is it? I mean, I suppose to an extent it is, but driving records, registrations, etc ARE in fact able to be accessed across state lines and up to the federal level.
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Old 06-22-2019, 12:14 AM
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That's not really true anymore though is it? I mean, I suppose to an extent it is, but driving records, registrations, etc ARE in fact able to be accessed across state lines and up to the federal level.
I just had my birthday and my drivers license expired and I had to get a new one which was the new, Real-ID license. Took two weeks to get it (well, an hour at the DMV and waiting two weeks as my application was screened or something).

Last time I got my license the state just sent a card asking if any info was changed, I said no and they just mailed me a new one.

Before that I went to the DMV, handed them some cash, they took a pic and I walked out with my new license.

I liked the old ways better.
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Old 06-22-2019, 07:55 AM
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Why not for insurance? Why can't New Jersey provide that every vehicle driven in a public street in NJ must have $xxx,xxx of insurance coverage?

And why not equipment standards?
I was talking in very broad terms. Similar to what is enforceable on private property, I would have to go statute by statute and say whether they are enforceable for out of state vehicles.

The bottom line is out of state vehicles have touring privileges in other states. A vehicle owner is obligated to follow the laws of their state. No all 50. It would not make sense that they would have to stop at the Delaware and change things. And we donít have jurisdiction to enforce the laws of other states.

For instance our window tint law is very strict. You donít have to replace your windows when you visit. We canít enforce if your Ohio car hasnít been inspected by Ohio law but you can be cited if you are found to be driving an unsafe vehicle. We canít enforce if you are not carrying your Maine driverís license but if you are found to be suspended you can be cited because you have to drive with a valid license from somewhere.

As for the insurance, the statute starts with ďAny owner or registrant of a motor vehicle registered or principally garaged in this State who operates or causes to be operated a motor vehicle upon any public road or highway in this State without motor vehicle liability insurance coverage required by this act...Ē It only covers cars from the state. Itís a jurisdictional issue. There is no federal car insurance standard.
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:13 AM
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In Europe, before the EU harmonised everything, insurance rules would vary between countries, but all the countries required all drivers, wherever they came from, to have it. My UK insurance covered me, my own car and any third party's costs while I was in the UK, but if I crossed the Channel, I was only covered for third-party costs unless I paid extra. Those days are gone and whether drivers come from Latvia, Lithuania or Germany, they will be properly insured or liable to prosecution and possible confiscation of their cars.
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Old 06-22-2019, 10:51 AM
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In my state (I am surprised to find out this is not true in all states), in addition to presenting registration to a LEO, you also have to exchange it with another driver if you have an accident.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob++ View Post
[...]most non-business insurance here is for named drivers only[....]
In the U.S. personal auto insurance will cover a driver who has permission to drive your car.

Once I was rear-ended by a woman who presented registration in someone else's name. She said it was her sister's car but it was a man's name. Later her insurance company called me to tell me they were not covering it because she did not have permission to drive the car. They wouldn't tell me anything else. My company covered me under uninsured motorist coverage.
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:20 AM
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I remember years ago some "it's terrible what happened to this tourist" story in the local newspaper. A tourist from here in Canada was lying on the beach in Florida when he was run over by someone driving a vehicle from some Appalachian state with an insurance requirement of $25,000 minimum. Needless to say, even a few decades ago, that didn't come close to covering the medical bills.

Generally AFAIK the rule is that people in the same household are assumed to have permission to drive the car, limited only by the insurance regulations. (I.e. persons under 25 - pay extra for the insurance). I was told the rule was that the insurance covered all drivers borrowing my car, subject to the limitation that I must verify they possess a valid driver's license.

I presume the rules about having registration etc. were formulated back in the days before databases. I think it's still a requirement in some provinces, but I have never heard of anyone being ticketed for it - some require you to show up with the license at a police station within 24 hours or 7 days or something, same as requiring proof of repair of faulty taillight or such. Nowadays the police can pull up the same information as the driver's license, including your license photo, on their in-car terminal. The warning I read was that people tend to keep their registration in the glovebox, so a typical trick was for thieves to break into the car, take the garage door opener, and find the address on the registration in order to go find the house to rob - since often the door between garage and house would not be locked.

AFAIK, you MUST present license, insurance and registration identification to the other party if there has been an accident - but this is usually limited to the name and address and license number of the driver; insurance company policy: and I assume, the registration is to verify the name of the owner of the car, for the insurance company to process.

It's possible the state is just being a dick about this; another possibility is that the state has determined the information to be private - an insurance company who wants to make a claim cannot just call up the state database with a license number any more, and get the personal details of the owner... hence the need to be carrying the registration so as to present this information to the other driver. And, make a few bucks for the police while they are at it.
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:43 AM
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Are you saying that if you borrow your brother's or a neighbor's car you wouldn't be driving insured unless you happened to be named on the insurance policy? I'd think there would be all kinds of accidents with a driver uninsured.
In the US, insurance is primarily for the driver, with one or more vehicles assigned.

In Spain, insurance is for the vehicle, with one or more drivers assigned; anybody who drives the vehicle with permission from one of the listed drivers is covered. Anybody driving it without permission is uninsured, as well as guilty of apropiaciůn indebida (it's not considered a theft unless they try to chop it or sell it; while they don't, it's merely "inappropriate use"). Borrowing a car in an emergency where the owner or one of his allowed drivers can't grant permission (you're taking his car to take him to the hospital) is considered covered.

The division about what is the primary object of insurance is one of those things which causes a lot of confusion, as we all tend to use that our country's way is the way "everybody" does it aaaaaand - nope.
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:48 AM
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In the US, insurance is primarily for the driver, with one or more vehicles assigned.
It's more complicated than that.
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:51 AM
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That's always the case when talking about the US, but the default mental assumption is that it's "driver's" insurance, perhaps because that's what you guys call it.
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:54 AM
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In the US, insurance is primarily for the driver, with one or more vehicles assigned.
This is not true in CT and wasn't true in OH or IL when I lived there. You had (what everyone calls it) car insurance not driver insurance. If you get a second car you need to add that to your policy. I don't know of any state in the US that has driver's insurance. If you have car insurance in your name it does generally serve as back-up driver's insurance in a rental car for example.
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:57 AM
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but the default mental assumption is that it's "driver's" insurance, perhaps because that's what you guys call it.
I don't remember hearing it called that.

Last edited by Thudlow Boink; 06-22-2019 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 06-22-2019, 11:58 AM
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If you have car insurance in your name it does generally serve as back-up driver's insurance in a rental car for example.
In Spain you can't even get that, either as a stand-alone policy or as part of one of the big packages. I've got the "everything under the sun and a few things above it" policy and that's not included; rentals always include compulsory insurance and if you want to be covered for more you pay more, but you pay for a specific policy which covers the specific rental vehicle. The insurance is always for the vehicle+driver(s) combination.
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Old 06-22-2019, 01:16 PM
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"License, proof of insurance, and registration please." Why registration?


It may be possible in the US to have insurance that covers the driver and not people who borrow the vehicle, but I’ve never heard of it and it’s certainly not typical. Nor is it typically called “drivers insurance” - it’s “ car insurance”

Although it is possible to get a policy that excludes a particular person in the policyholders household, but just that person.

Last edited by doreen; 06-22-2019 at 01:21 PM.
  #38  
Old 06-22-2019, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Whack-a-Mole View Post
As an out-of-state driver passing through am I beholden to that state's requirments on this?

For instance, some states mandate a front license plate and others do not. Do I need to mount a front plate in states I pass through?

Isn't this an issue with transporting guns too? If you legally own your gun in your state you can travel without needing to read local laws of every place you pass through?

Let's make a ridiculous hypothetical for fun and illustration:

Illinois decides to mandate than all drivers have a copy of their high school transcripts in the car. You are from Indiana and driving to Wisconsin (passing through Illinois). Do you need to dig up a copy of your high school transcripts before heading through Illinois?

Now imagine all 50 states had some bizzaro requirements unique to each state because they decide it is a great revenue generator to bust unwary out-of-state drivers with. It would quickly become a nightmare.
As always, the devil is in the details. The first detail is the statute regarding the unlawful activity.

For example, prior to 1980, it was impermissible to turn right after stopping while a light was red (last state to change). The way the statute was written, it would not matter what state you were from; turning right after stopping while the light was red was a violation of the law. You could be cited, even if the state you were from allowed that turn.

By comparison, as shown above by Loach, the statute in his state regarding mandatory insurance coverage only applies to someone who is the owner or registrant of a car registered or principally garaged in the state driving on the public roads of the state. So, if I borrow my friend's car, and it turns out that the car is uninsured, I cannot be charged with violation of the statute. If I am from out of state, but I am driving a car that I own and for whatever reason I "principally garage" in the state, I can be charged. That's not that far-fetched; happens a lot with people who have vacation homes in other states, and leave cars there for use while visiting.

I think the general rule you can follow (and Loach can correct me if I'm wrong) is that, if the law in question has to do with your car itself, then the state will write it to apply only to cars from the state. However, if the law has to do with what you as a driver are doing while in the state, then you will have to comply with the law since it will be written that way. Thus, when I drive each year from South Carolina (a one-plate state) to California (a two-plate state) for my vacation, I don't have to get a second plate. But when last summer South Carolina notified me that my license to drive in that state was about to be suspended (because of the fact Arizona had, in fact, suspended my driving privileges in THAT state over an unpaid moving violation), I made DAMN good and sure to get that resolved before I left South Carolina, so that I didn't become suddenly unlicensed while on my happy vacation in the Golden State.
  #39  
Old 06-22-2019, 10:25 PM
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Meanwhile, in Aus, the law has changed so that you /don't/ have to have registration details with you. (At least in NSW and VIC). We always used to have a registration sticker on the car. The states have decided that it is a needless expense and have removed the requirement. Police all can do immediate checks on the licence plate.

(FWIW, the effect of this is that people who are too disorganised to to keep their registration paid -- ie poor, old, sick or marginal people -- don't have the constant reminder of their registration expiry date, and are hit by fines in greater numbers than ever before.)
  #40  
Old 06-22-2019, 11:12 PM
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This is not true in CT and wasn't true in OH or IL when I lived there. You had (what everyone calls it) car insurance not driver insurance. If you get a second car you need to add that to your policy. I don't know of any state in the US that has driver's insurance. If you have car insurance in your name it does generally serve as back-up driver's insurance in a rental car for example.
Depends on what your policy says. Many credit cards offer back up insurance if you pay for the rental with the card.
  #41  
Old 06-22-2019, 11:23 PM
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Depends on what your policy says. Many credit cards offer back up insurance if you pay for the rental with the card.
Yup. I no longer have a car (by choice) and my credit card includes driver's insurance if I rent a car so I do not have to take the rental company's ridiculously over priced insurance when I rent a car.

This is a common benefit included with many credit cards (not all...be sure to check).
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  #42  
Old 06-23-2019, 01:27 AM
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I was stopped at a red light with my brother when we noticed a motorcycle cop filling up at the gas station at that corner. We were wondering why he was filling up at a public station -- especially since a large police station was just about half a mile away.
Easily explained:

Not all agencies have their own refueling stations and issue gas only credit cards specific to each squad. Or if they do have a fuel pump in could be empty and officers have to use a department gas card at a station until their fuel station gets refreshed.

My department has pumps and cards. We also use the cards for car wash service. The use of these cards are VERY extremely strictly monitored and you get completely up to your neck in shit for any abuse. The cards are only good for gasoline and a basic car wash, both at just 2 stations in the jurisdiction.

Last edited by pkbites; 06-23-2019 at 01:32 AM.
  #43  
Old 06-23-2019, 03:20 AM
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Yup. I no longer have a car (by choice) and my credit card includes driver's insurance if I rent a car so I do not have to take the rental company's ridiculously over priced insurance when I rent a car.

This is a common benefit included with many credit cards (not all...be sure to check).
^ Yes, do check.

I did check prior to renting a car and I'm glad I did because in my particular case I would have been uninsured had I not taken "the rental company's ridiculously over priced insurance", which also had roadside assistance which I otherwise do not have. As I've noted, I don't travel that often so the extra cost of a week's insurance is less than the cost of changing my regular insurance to something that would cover me in such circumstances when you consider the long run.

I don't know, but if you're from outside the US that might be another situation to take the rental agency insurance - definitely check with your own insurance company.

But if you aren't me and are otherwise covered then no, don't take the insurance from the car rental agency.
  #44  
Old 06-23-2019, 04:06 AM
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^ Yes, do check.

I did check prior to renting a car and I'm glad I did because in my particular case I would have been uninsured had I not taken "the rental company's ridiculously over priced insurance", which also had roadside assistance which I otherwise do not have. As I've noted, I don't travel that often so the extra cost of a week's insurance is less than the cost of changing my regular insurance to something that would cover me in such circumstances when you consider the long run.

I don't know, but if you're from outside the US that might be another situation to take the rental agency insurance - definitely check with your own insurance company.

But if you aren't me and are otherwise covered then no, don't take the insurance from the car rental agency.
The rental agency will likely point out that your insurance wonít cover their loss of income while the car is being repaired and any other BS charge they can think of.

I still donít get the insurance because of my credit card. However, my dad once totaled a rental car (it was his fault) and he had taken every type of insurance that he had been offered. He walked away scot-free.
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  #45  
Old 06-23-2019, 04:16 AM
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The rental agency will likely point out that your insurance wonít cover their loss of income while the car is being repaired
I travel a lot and rent a lot of cars. And they always lay that crap on me.

Except my insurance DOES cover the loss while the car is being repaired. I love the look on the agents face when I whip out a copy of the policy page that confirms that. Itís West Bend Mutual in case youíre interested.
  #46  
Old 06-23-2019, 09:08 AM
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I did check prior to renting a car and I'm glad I did because in my particular case I would have been uninsured had I not taken "the rental company's ridiculously over priced insurance", which also had roadside assistance which I otherwise do not have.
You need insurance for roadside assistance with a rental car?

Wow...that sucks. I'd think the rental car company would back their own product both to the customer that the car is in good condition and for their own benefit...they want the car back in good shape. What assholes to put it on you to pay for roadside assistance when their product breaks.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

And yeah...rental company provided car insurance is waaaay expensive. The average cost of car insurance is $3.90/day (that actually seems a lot to me but Google says so). Rental companies usually start at $10/day for insurance (maybe more).
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Last edited by Whack-a-Mole; 06-23-2019 at 09:11 AM.
  #47  
Old 06-23-2019, 09:42 AM
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In Europe, car rental is highly competitive, especially in tourist areas. Add in websites (others are available) that enable you to search for the cheapest and you have a recipe for low or no margins. This leads the rental companies to use all kinds of dodges to extract more money from the renter. Insurance is one, but we can buy short term insurance for rentals independently for a lot less. They have an answer to that - many cars are returned out-of-hours so not inspected. They will claim for damage and you can't challenge so it's the insurance Co that gets ripped off.



Fuel is another racket. The car will generally be low on fuel when you pick it up, so you will go out and fill it up. Most holidaymakers don't do much mileage - mainly airport to villa/hotel and back, so the tank is three parts full on return. They will siphon that out ready for the next s̶u̶c̶k̶e̶r̶ customer.

You always have to have a card swiped, which allows them to add charges without further checks, so when they offer you an upgrade, they don't mention the upgraded price and you don't know until you get your CC bill. It's hard to challenge these things from another country.

My advice is to stick with the big boys: Hertz, SixT, Avis, Budget et al.
  #48  
Old 06-24-2019, 01:09 AM
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Fuel is another racket. The car will generally be low on fuel when you pick it up, so you will go out and fill it up. Most holidaymakers don't do much mileage - mainly airport to villa/hotel and back, so the tank is three parts full on return. They will siphon that out ready for the next s̶u̶c̶k̶e̶r̶ customer.
Interesting. The typical fuel scam in the USA works the other way around. If you fail to return the car with as much fuel as was in it when you got it, they charge you for the difference at an obscenely high rate.
  #49  
Old 06-24-2019, 06:00 AM
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You need insurance for roadside assistance with a rental car?
It was included as part of the package. MY insurance for day-to-day doesn't have roadside assistance (I have the number of a local tow service on my phone for that - they once hauled my busted down truck and me home at 1 am one night/morning so it works for me). As I was making a 500 mile road trip in said rental I thought covering for the possibility of breaking down far away from home was a good idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whack-a-Mole View Post
Wow...that sucks. I'd think the rental car company would back their own product both to the customer that the car is in good condition and for their own benefit...they want the car back in good shape. What assholes to put it on you to pay for roadside assistance when their product breaks
I don't think you understand - a perfectly mechanically sound vehicle can still come to grief on the road. Someone could hit you. Something could fall off a vehicle ahead of you and hit what you're driving. A mechanical part could fail. Debris on the road could result in a flat tire.

Roadside assistance means that the car rental company (or their insurance) will pay for a tow and you don't have to. You don't even have to find local assistance, you call the rental company's help line and THEY find whatever assistance is needed.

It's such a nice benefit that many non-rental-agency car insurance offers it as an option. Anyone who travels a lot away from home might want to purchase such coverage. If you already have such coverage you don't want to purchase duplicate coverage from the rental agency. If you don't have such coverage (I don't) and you're making a long trip you might want to have such coverage for the trip.

I fail to see including that in the insurance makes anyone an "asshole". They give you the option to use your own resources to cover these contingencies no one is forcing you to take it. If you want to roll the dice and take a trip without coverage that's YOU putting yourself in the position that you have to pay for help all on your own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whack-a-Mole View Post
And yeah...rental company provided car insurance is waaaay expensive. The average cost of car insurance is $3.90/day (that actually seems a lot to me but Google says so). Rental companies usually start at $10/day for insurance (maybe more).
My vehicle insurance covers two items - a car and a pickup truck - at around $2.45 a day total so, yay me, I'm doing better than average in that sense. But, as I have pointed out, I have minimal insurance (basically, liability in case someone sues me). If I want to increase the coverage to include things like "me driving someone else's car" that's going to increase my daily costs. Assuming that increases my costs to "average" that's $1.45 per day, or an additional $529.25 per year. Versus paying, say $70 for a week of coverage through the car rental company. If I only take 1 extensive road trip per year, and that trip is one week long it actually IS cheaper, over the course of the year, for me to pay for the "expensive" car rental insurance for that week and keep my reduced insurance for the rest of the year. If I was taking a week long road trip once a month then no, it's not a good deal to take the rental agency's insurance, I would upgrade my own insurance. If I had a credit card that covered me if I used it to rent a car I'd run a new calculation but I'm guessing that the result would be "use the card's insurance for car rental, keep the minimal insurance for day-to-day".

Saying "don't take the agency's car insurance" is a good rule of thumb because most people have a more extensive day-to-day insurance coverage than I do. Still, it's not a bad idea to review what your own insurance actually covers from time to time.

(Yes, my car insurance ONLY covers liability - the physical objects have no insurance. Any damage comes out of my pocket. I never have to worry about a deductible because I don't have one. I have a savings account sufficient to cover repairs up to two-three times the blue book value of either vehicle so in that area I'm "self-insured" and will either pay to get a vehicle repaired or replace it, whichever makes more economic sense. Or maybe not repair it and simply go to one vehicle.)

There's another situation where using the rental agency's insurance makes a lot of sense. If you don't own a car at all (and for the 15 years I lived in Chicago I didn't) then you almost certainly don't have car insurance at all. Which will save you a lot of money over the course of the year, but if you then rent a car you have NO insurance unless you take the rental agency's policy. Which, yes, is more expensive on a per diem basis than having your own, but if you only take a single 1 week trip via car rental that is $70 (or maybe even $100 if they offer a deluxe policy) vs. $1400 for a year of average car insurance. Which is cheaper over the course the year? The "expensive" insurance for just the week you need it, or paying for a standard policy for a year?

I'll be the first to admit my situation is not average for an American. Most people don't need and shouldn't take the car rental agency's insurance. That's fine. But there are quite a few people for whom it's a good option, including me at this point in my life. Two years from now - who knows? Maybe my situation will have changed.
  #50  
Old 06-24-2019, 07:36 AM
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When I was growing up, insurance for younger drivers was an expensive add-on. The car was insured, for all (licensed) drivers - except, if anyone who drove it was under 25, they would not be covered unless the owner paid an additional amount to cover them.
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