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Old 07-15-2019, 05:42 PM
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Noted American child molester pitching lights out for Mexican team!


Tecolotes Dos Laredos, why? Are the few extra wins worth it?

Noted American convicted child molester Luke Heimlich, rightfully shunned by US baseball, has found a home in Mexico now!

Seems he's pitching really well, so well I guess his team doesn't care he molested a family relative at least twice under age six, when he was sixteen!

His first statement on it was "I have taken responsibility for my conduct when I was a teenager", which later morphed into saying that he pleaded guilty to "quickly dispense with the case and for the sake of family relations!"

Not sure how a (false) molestation plea aids family relations, or how dumb you have to be to think agreeing to this most heinous of all charges (if innocent) aids you or anyone else in any way, but obviously this garbage knows best!

And the kicker! All this was sealed and would have NEVER saw the light of the day, if mister genius child molester had not failed to update his sex offender registration status! OOPSIE Luke!

Should he booted off the team, or allowed to play, I ask?

Go Tecolotes Dos Laredos??

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Heimlich

Last edited by Helmut Doork; 07-15-2019 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 07-15-2019, 05:53 PM
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He was 15 when arrested; a child himself, in the eyes of the law. He pled guilty, and has complied with all court orders.
Do you believe no one who has ever committed a crime can ever again work at a job to earn their way in this world?

mc
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:45 PM
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Not questioning whether he should have personally agreed to play, but whether the team should allow him to play.

Gary Glitter is one the most famous of all 70s UK rock stars, and also one of history's most infamous child molesters- Royal Albert Hall isnt offering him a two month residency.

A year ago one Royals exec floated the idea of maybe, possibly, thinking about signing him, even go so far to LYING that everyone involved in the family currently supports him- a flat out lie, and the mere thought of him signing was met with immediate revulsion by most fans, so the idea was dropped- hence, his current stint in Mexico.

He'd be an idiot to turn down a contract- the question is why any decent human would offer him one? Let him toil in shit jobs like most others of his kind.

Every 15 year old I know is trying to get same-age-or-older sex at that age, not doing a Josh Duggar.

Last edited by Helmut Doork; 07-15-2019 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:56 PM
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I eagerly await our large contingent of Mexican baseball fan Dopers to weigh in on this.
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Old 07-15-2019, 06:59 PM
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The Wikipedia article doesn't say how old the victim was. I'll note that the age of consent in Mexico is 12 and ask if if attitudes toward young sex in Mexico might be more relaxed.
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Old 07-15-2019, 07:44 PM
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She was SIX! Believe me, no normal people in Mexico approve of that. I'm actually astonished that the team signed him. They're crazy. It's guaranteed negative publicity.
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Old 07-15-2019, 08:26 PM
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The Wikipedia article doesn't say how old the victim was. I'll note that the age of consent in Mexico is 12 and ask if if attitudes toward young sex in Mexico might be more relaxed.
12?!?! That's messed up. That's like, medieval times.

Last edited by Guinastasia; 07-15-2019 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 07-15-2019, 08:27 PM
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The Wikipedia article doesn't say how old the victim was. I'll note that the age of consent in Mexico is 12 and ask if if attitudes toward young sex in Mexico might be more relaxed.
The Wikipedia article mentions her age three times in one sentence:

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When he was 15 years old, Heimlich was accused of sexually molesting his six-year-old niece on two occasions, once when she was four years old and once when she was six years old.
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Old 07-15-2019, 08:57 PM
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. . .the question is why any decent human would offer him one? Let him toil in shit jobs like most others of his kind.
This is one of the most offensive sentences I've read here, and that's saying alot on this board.

Any decent human being would offer him a job because they are just that - decent. They realize that he has paid his debt to society as mandated by the court. And continues to pay that debt by having to register as a sex offender. It's not the job of decent humans to heap their own punishment on top of the courts'.
Add to that the fact that he was 15, a child himself, and the court recognizes that a person's entire life need not be ruined by the mistakes, no matter how heinous, made in childhood, and as such those decisions are supposed to be sealed.

But the real offensive part is the insult that you heap on the decent people who toil everyday in these jobs you call "shit". Are they to be damned as well by association? And just what defines a "shit job"? and how is it that a job as a baseball player ranks as a non "shit" job. What job do you do? is it a "shit" job? And just how is it that you qualify for such a glamorous position? Is it all criminals who should be relegated to "shit" work or just the ones who've committed certain crimes? And who gets to decided who can and can't work at what jobs?

I have more to say. . .but this is not the pit, so I'll stop now.

mc
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:19 PM
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This is one of the most offensive sentences I've read here, and that's saying alot on this board.
I take it then you weren't around when Cesario was here?

15 is definitely old enough to know better than to molest a 6-year-old. By that age, if someone is trying to have sexual contact with a child that young, there's obviously something wrong with that individual.
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:31 PM
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But the real offensive part is the insult that you heap on the decent people who toil everyday in these jobs you call "shit". Are they to be damned as well by association? And just what defines a "shit job"? and how is it that a job as a baseball player ranks as a non "shit" job. What job do you do? is it a "shit" job? And just how is it that you qualify for such a glamorous position? Is it all criminals who should be relegated to "shit" work or just the ones who've committed certain crimes? And who gets to decided who can and can't work at what jobs?

I have more to say. . .but this is not the pit, so I'll stop now.

mc
My bad- My reference to a shit job was no in way intended to insult any of the millions of decent hardworking people who have shit jobs- I have one myself! Shit job as in non-glamorous. you forfeit your right to live the good life of a baseball player when you abuse children. Perfect job for him, if hes so fucking innocent or repentant or whichever it is officially now, as molester has used both excuses- counselor for abusers or abuse victims. If truly sorry, make it well known- have the fucking decency to make a sizable donation to abuse charities, and if any human decency at all, a scholarship fund for your victim.

you have my blessing to ask for the thread to move to wherever youd like it, im dying hear your views on the topic with the reins off.

Last edited by Helmut Doork; 07-15-2019 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:36 PM
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you have my blessing to ask for the thread to move to wherever youd like it, im dying hear your views on the topic with the reins off.
it's not my views on the topic that I held my tongue about.

mc
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:58 PM
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I'm not sure how I feel about this topic. On one hand the guy shouldn't spend the rest of his life suffering for something he did at 15 if that's the case he would be better off if we just gave him the death penalty. On the other hand I wouldn't be able to cheer for a known child molester and that would decrease my interest in my team if he were on it.

The Dodgers had one of their up and coming stars get accused of beating up his girlfriend earlier this year. I actively rooted against him until the charges were dismissed now I'd just like to see use trade him to someone else.

In the end I'd have no problem with this molester playing for the yankees but I wouldn't want him on the dodgers, or honestly even playing for the giants where I'd have to hear about it a bunch. But in the end I have more heart burn with Ray Rice or that running back from the vikings who whipped his kid, making big bucks then this guy. At least the molester has done his time and it happened a long time ago. Its kind of like michael vick except molestation is worse then dog fighting but vick was an adult and already famous during his criminal acts.
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Old 07-15-2019, 10:02 PM
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I wouldn't hire him if I owned a team.
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Old 07-15-2019, 10:15 PM
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For comparison, i will find the link in case I am off on anything about this, but there was a high profile Texas football player who was pretty much blackballed from the sport when it was found out he had a consenting sex with his biological sister when both were 16-18, and he at some point was playing in Canada. No US team would touch him.

More thoughts, assuming there are no restrictions on his contact with underage children- how do the teammates feel on days when children are allowed in clubhouse? does he get those days off? What about autograph sessions before games with kids that 99% of players do?
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:09 AM
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I don't get why he should be denied the chance to play professional baseball if someone is willing to pay him to do so. If it's that important that the punishment last a lifetime, he should have gotten a life sentence, or the death penalty. If you want to boycott the team that hired him and any company that advertises during his games, knock yourself out.
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Old 07-16-2019, 05:50 AM
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My bad- My reference to a shit job was no in way intended to insult any of the millions of decent hardworking people who have shit jobs- I have one myself! Shit job as in non-glamorous. you forfeit your right to live the good life of a baseball player when you abuse children. Perfect job for him, if hes so fucking innocent or repentant or whichever it is officially now, as molester has used both excuses- counselor for abusers or abuse victims. If truly sorry, make it well known- have the fucking decency to make a sizable donation to abuse charities, and if any human decency at all, a scholarship fund for your victim.
Here's an idea: if a child molester can hold down a "glamorous" job, or perhaps more importantly, a highly lucrative job, let him do so but give the majority of his ginormous salary to his victim(s). Let him make oodles of money but only keep enough to allow a bare-bones personal existence regarding food, shelter, etc. That way, society can make full use of his positive talents and his victim(s) gain some compensation.

Question: had this guy done anything illegal since the molestation crime when he was 15? If not, seems he has learned some self-control in which case being "repentant" would not seem to be an excuse but an actual state. I wouldn't hire him as a baby-sitter, of course, but if he's paid the penalty given to him by the court system and has not re-offended then I see no reason to heap additional penalties on his head forever.

And yeah, you did come off as pretty damn insulting regarding folks who have "shit jobs". "Shit jobs" are required to make civilization work, someone has to do them, and it would be a better world if those doing the "shit jobs" were accorded a little more respect.
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:12 AM
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I feel like it would be so weird to receive money or scholarships from your abuser. Wouldn't it constantly bring up horrible memories and make it impossible to move forward? "Well, thank goodness Uncle Chester paid the tuition this semester."
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:28 AM
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Depends on the situation, I'd think.

I personally know someone who was abused and who's abuser paid for years of therapy. In that case, the person abused had no problem with it.

In other situations yes, it could be a problem.

Really, maybe we should leave it up to the people who have been wronged whether or not they'd receive such compensation rather than trying to guess how they'd feel or try to come up with a one-size-fits-all rule?

In instances where giving the molester's "excess" salary directly to the person abused perhaps sending it to a charity would be appropriate.

I don't see where having molesters live in camps under freeway overpasses and/or starve to death serve the greater good, or human decency.
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:34 AM
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Maybe a solution would be to play Gary Glitter's "Rock N' Roll Part II" every time Luke Heimlich goes out to take the mound.
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Old 07-16-2019, 07:42 AM
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When the Pittsburgh Steelers signed that dog killer dude I joined the boycott of the team. I'd react similarly to a team hiring a child molester. Really, there are plenty of talented athletes looking for work, hire one who isn't scum.
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Old 07-16-2019, 08:04 AM
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This is a big reason why there is so much recidivism. Even criminals who have paid their debt to society and want to live a reformed and useful life cannot do so because they are damned for all time.

I was watching a documentary about this subject and the American penal system in general, and they showed how Sweden's approach to crime and prison is so very different because there is a huge emphasis on reforming the inmates and preparing them to be useful members of society when they are released. Their rate of recidivism is very low, which is obviously beneficial in many respects.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:17 AM
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Maybe a solution would be to play Gary Glitter's "Rock N' Roll Part II" every time Luke Heimlich goes out to take the mound.
that's actually an interesting point- I don't go to many games now, but when I did, this song was played at almost every one- do they still do this? because obviously if they do, he gets richer every time its played.

For anyone not knowing, its the duh duh duh duh HEY! song (instrumental).
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:22 AM
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Here's an idea: if a child molester can hold down a "glamorous" job, or perhaps more importantly, a highly lucrative job, let him do so but give the majority of his ginormous salary to his victim(s). Let him make oodles of money but only keep enough to allow a bare-bones personal existence regarding food, shelter, etc. That way, society can make full use of his positive talents and his victim(s) gain some compensation.

Question: had this guy done anything illegal since the molestation crime when he was 15? If not, seems he has learned some self-control in which case being "repentant" would not seem to be an excuse but an actual state. I wouldn't hire him as a baby-sitter, of course, but if he's paid the penalty given to him by the court system and has not re-offended then I see no reason to heap additional penalties on his head forever.

And yeah, you did come off as pretty damn insulting regarding folks who have "shit jobs". "Shit jobs" are required to make civilization work, someone has to do them, and it would be a better world if those doing the "shit jobs" were accorded a little more respect.

Agree about the salary, that would be a win/win I guess.

And please don't get the message lost, I clarified earlier my definition of "shit job" was any thing non-glamorous, nine to five type, which 90% of the world has, including me.

Allowing him to live a free life working 9 to 5, perhaps helping victims, is not a death sentence. It would show, certain crimes are beyond the pale, and once you commit them, you will be viewed different forever.

Please note the case of Roman Polanski- non citizen barred from the country. And I have personally seen interviews with his victim, who was 13, and she does not want him arrested or anything, she has moved on- just for comparison of how similar cases are treated.

Gary Glitter is "barred" from concerts, why should this guy pitch?

Last edited by Helmut Doork; 07-16-2019 at 09:26 AM.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:32 AM
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I don't get why he should be denied the chance to play professional baseball if someone is willing to pay him to do so. If it's that important that the punishment last a lifetime, he should have gotten a life sentence, or the death penalty.
Yeah: what's the point of having more than one possible sentence, if the penalty for any admission of guilt or for any conviction is "life without parole"?

Now, that he is currently an idiot? That is a different issue.


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Please note the case of Roman Polanski- non citizen barred from the country.
AFAIK, he isn't barred. He is "not wanting to set foot in the US because if he does he will be captured". Completely different situation.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:37 AM
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Roman Polanski is not barred from the country. In fact, there's some who really wish he'd drop by for a visit.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:39 AM
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Yeah: what's the point of having more than one possible sentence, if the penalty for any admission of guilt or for any conviction is "life without parole"?

Now, that he is currently an idiot? That is a different issue.
He is currently afforded the exact same freedoms as every other similar American citizen. No one is suggesting anything else punitive. A baseball player being denied the right to play baseball is not being denied a basic right, he would be denied a luxury, and because of his personal actions.

There are tons of jobs felons cannot hold, and they manage to live regular productive free lives.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:41 AM
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Roman Polanski is not barred from the country. In fact, there's some who really wish he'd drop by for a visit.
thank you, yes, not barred, but will be jailed the second he steps off the plane.
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Old 07-16-2019, 09:48 AM
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It's hard to swallow, for sure. Like a fist in the gut.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:01 AM
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that's actually an interesting point- I don't go to many games now, but when I did, this song was played at almost every one- do they still do this? because obviously if they do, he gets richer every time its played.

For anyone not knowing, its the duh duh duh duh HEY! song (instrumental).
It's been banned by the NFL. Other teams have stopped playing the song on a team-by-team basis.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:13 AM
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Here's an idea: if a child molester can hold down a "glamorous" job, or perhaps more importantly, a highly lucrative job, let him do so but give the majority of his ginormous salary to his victim(s).
That's not the situation here, though. Playing Triple A in Mexico probably pays jackshit.

Last edited by CarnalK; 07-16-2019 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:25 AM
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Please note the case of Roman Polanski- non citizen barred from the country.
As others have mentioned Polanski is the opposite of "barred" - California very much wants him to come back. Of course, the moment he sets food in the US, or in any place the US can extradite him from, he will be arrested and sent back to California not only to face sentencing for drugging and raping a child but to have additional charges added for fleeing the country. And no bail this time, given he's definitely a flight risk.

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And I have personally seen interviews with his victim, who was 13, and she does not want him arrested or anything, she has moved on
Or else she's sick and tired of being Roman Polanski's Rape Victim. I'm sure that got old fast.

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That's not the situation here, though. Playing Triple A in Mexico probably pays jackshit.
So what? If that's true it sounds like a "shit job" to me. As I said, having molesters starve to death because they aren't allowed to hold a job doesn't strike me as humane, moral, or beneficial for society. Would you rather have him on the dole or earning a wage?
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:29 AM
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That's not the situation here, though. Playing Triple A in Mexico probably pays jackshit.
Yes, I suspect some people in this thread are overestimating the "glamour" of minor-league baseball.
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:33 AM
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So what? If that's true it sounds like a "shit job" to me. As I said, having molesters starve to death because they aren't allowed to hold a job doesn't strike me as humane, moral, or beneficial for society. Would you rather have him on the dole or earning a wage?

Your continual adherence to this inaccurate observation is baffling- you are suggesting molester has no other choice for work than baseball. thousands of molesters like him hold jobs. Thousands of athletes simply not good enough to play professional get other jobs. There is a very good even were he not a molester he would never make the majors anyway, then what would he do?

Shit, comparing the two I would have more sympathy for Polanski, I admit his sense of right or wrong could have been affected by being the victim of two of the most heinous crimes of the 20th century at least.

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Old 07-16-2019, 10:35 AM
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What do you mean "so what?". I am pointing out that we are not talking about a guy with a lucrative or particularly glamorous job. Your proposed punishment is the "so what has that got to do with this guy?"
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Old 07-16-2019, 10:37 AM
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Yes, I suspect some people in this thread are overestimating the "glamour" of minor-league baseball.
Actually an excellent point I didn't take into account in the OP. It could be a lifetime of AAA Mexico ball is in effect an excellent punishment- pay less than US minimum wage, shitty lodgings, 18 hour bus rides from Monterrey to Oaxaca (sic). Does the Mexican league have groupies?

My concern is him doing well, and in a few years a US team thinks the statue of limitations is up and tries to sign him, but again, at first anyway, it would be the unglamorous US minor leagues .

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Old 07-16-2019, 11:00 AM
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He is currently afforded the exact same freedoms as every other similar American citizen. No one is suggesting anything else punitive. A baseball player being denied the right to play baseball is not being denied a basic right, he would be denied a luxury, and because of his personal actions.

There are tons of jobs felons cannot hold, and they manage to live regular productive free lives.
You're contradicting yourself rather aggressively, here. I'm sure he'd see being blocked from playing pro ball as further punishment.
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:05 AM
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thank you, yes, not barred, but will be jailed the second he steps off the plane.
Yet, big time studios still fund his films. Big time actors and actresses still work for him. And audiences still go to see his movies.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000591/...1?ref_=nv_sr_1

How fucked up is all that?
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:05 AM
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You're contradicting yourself rather aggressively, here. I'm sure he'd see being blocked from playing pro ball as further punishment.
I see it as an expected result of his actions. If I willfully commit a felonious act, I know I will never be able to find work with the FBI.
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:30 AM
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I see it as an expected result of his actions. If I willfully commit a felonious act, I know I will never be able to find work with the FBI.
Okay, one can make the argument that it is reasonable to bar felons from jobs in law enforcement (Frank Abagnale notwithstanding). Now do that for professional baseball.
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:40 AM
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I see it as an expected result of his actions. If I willfully commit a felonious act, I know I will never be able to find work with the FBI.
Are we making allowances for his age? 15 is old enough to know better, but it's not old enough that the "expected result of his actions" part of his brain was fully developed.

To a teenager, how obvious is the connection between touching a child's private parts and being allowed to play professional baseball?
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Old 07-16-2019, 11:42 AM
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It could be a lifetime of AAA Mexico ball is in effect an excellent punishment- pay less than US minimum wage, shitty lodgings, 18 hour bus rides from Monterrey to Oaxaca (sic). Does the Mexican league have groupies?
According to Wiki, the Mexican League season is 114 games, so about five months long. And, according to this, the maximum salary for players is $10k per month. (Although, the article notes that there exceptions to this, primarily to former big-league players.) So, it appears that the top players in the Mexican League earn $50k per season. Not less than US minimum wage, but certainly not great, either.

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My concern is him doing well, and in a few years a US team thinks the statue of limitations is up and tries to sign him, but again, at first anyway, it would be the unglamorous US minor leagues .
Well, according to SB Nation, Major League Baseball has severed its relationship with the Mexican League.

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Major League Baseball has reportedly cut all ties with the Liga Mexicana de Beisbol (LMB), banning teams from signing players from the confederation. The ban comes as a result of “corruption” and “fraud” within Mexico’s top league.
So the idea of using the Mexican League as a springboard to signing with a big-league team is no longer viable, at least for now.

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I see it as an expected result of his actions. If I willfully commit a felonious act, I know I will never be able to find work with the FBI.
Right. But if you are trained as an accountant, should you be barred from all accounting jobs because of your past sins? (Or, as Bryan Ekers asked, barred from playing professional baseball?)
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:08 PM
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Are we making allowances for his age? 15 is old enough to know better, but it's not old enough that the "expected result of his actions" part of his brain was fully developed.

To a teenager, how obvious is the connection between touching a child's private parts and being allowed to play professional baseball?
I don't see how possibly not considering the ramifications of committing a heinous act you know is wrong is really pertinent.

"I knew this murder I committed was wrong but didn't think my state had the death penalty (or didn't think I'd get caught), therefore I shouldn't be put to death?"

Last edited by Helmut Doork; 07-16-2019 at 12:09 PM.
  #44  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:13 PM
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Right. But if you are trained as an accountant, should you be barred from all accounting jobs because of your past sins?
I could buy that if the sins had some connection to accounting, like fraud or embezzlement. The connection between child molesting and professional baseball is unclear at best.
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  #45  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:13 PM
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I knew things were rough in Mexico, but I didn't realize child molesters were turning off baseball stadium lights. That's weird.
  #46  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:15 PM
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Okay, one can make the argument that it is reasonable to bar felons from jobs in law enforcement (Frank Abagnale notwithstanding). Now do that for professional baseball.
Professional baseball relies on fans attending games, purchasing team stuff, etc. I'd want no parts of a team that hired people who have abused animals or children and I think a large part of many markets would feel similarly.
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Old 07-16-2019, 12:16 PM
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Right. But if you are trained as an accountant, should you be barred from all accounting jobs because of your past sins? (Or, as Bryan Ekers asked, barred from playing professional baseball?)
Regular jobs and sports are apples and oranges. Garden variety felonies and child molestation are as well.

With baseball you are the "face" of the team- an accountant is one guy in an office of fifty. No one watches an accountant go about his work- thousands of kids would be in the stands if molester pitched in the US. Players' kids are constantly in the clubhouse- I don't think accountants have bring your kids to work day. Signing autographs and interacting with kids is a daily thing for baseball players- not so much for regular jobs.

Are we going to have Luke Heimlich bobble head night? But I adore the idea of his entrance music being by Gary Glitter- it should be a requirement, as sort of a warning for those who don't know his past.

But saying that, if my job finds out I did what he did, I would be fired on the spot, and would expect to be. I would probably expect to have to legally change my name and move out of state to have a semblance of a normal life.

Last edited by Helmut Doork; 07-16-2019 at 12:19 PM.
  #48  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:23 PM
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I don't see how possibly not considering the ramifications of committing a heinous act you know is wrong is really pertinent.
Ah, now we have the crux of the matter. What is a "heinous crime" and what isn't? Apparently, it's in the eye of the beholder because we have people out there who have made hundreds of millions - even billions - of dollars off of the suffering and afflictions of helpless people while becoming rich doing it. Big Pharma charges fabulously high prices for life saving drugs, and then stands coldly by while the impoverished die because they can't pay for them. Not only have they never spent a day in jail, they are prospering mightily and have unlimited options.

We can't be bothered with that stuff, though, because we are too busy trying to totally destroy the life of a man who, at the age of 15, was inappropriate with a child.

There is no consistency in our legal (I refuse to use the word justice) system nor in the judgment of society in general.

Please, spare me your self-righteous outrage.
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Last edited by Jasmine; 07-16-2019 at 12:23 PM.
  #49  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:26 PM
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I don't see how possibly not considering the ramifications of committing a heinous act you know is wrong is really pertinent.
Do you think all juvenile criminals should be tried and sentenced as adults?
  #50  
Old 07-16-2019, 12:28 PM
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We can't be bothered with that stuff, though, because we are too busy trying to totally destroy the life of a man who, at the age of 15, was inappropriate with a child.

There is no consistency in our legal (I refuse to use the word justice) system nor in the judgment of society in general.

Please, spare me your self-righteous outrage.

While not really the topic, I would think most would agree if ranking the list of all possible crimes from most heinous to least, murder and child abuse would be the top two. So if your issue here is I am complaining about a little old child molester instead of Pol Pot, point taken.
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