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Old 07-18-2019, 02:15 PM
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Communal toilet use


In the present day most people in almost every country will refuse to go to the toilet, as in do a poo, next to another stranger.

Why was it that the Romans, Turkish and other cultures had communal toilets where men (and separately women) did their business sat next to each other.

How and when did we become squeamish about this?
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Old 07-18-2019, 02:21 PM
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Most people? I'd rather not, but I will by no means "refuse".

And in France they have open air urinals.

Side rant- I am seeing more and more mens bathrooms with a toilet and a urinal, but no wall between them. The Op makes a point in that many people are uncomfortable in these cases, so whoever is building these makes it so only one guy can use the bathroom at a time. Very stupid. BART bathrooms were all like this, IIRC.
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Old 07-18-2019, 02:28 PM
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It used to be that there was little or no privacy in life for anyone, whether slave or serf or even royalty. You did everything around other people, so why would bodily elimination be an exception?

I think it was with the rise of privacy (which is more recent than folks might suppose) that folks started peeing and pooping out of sight of others. It's not that folks wouldn't stand a bit away from others, or wouldn't take advantage of a private spot to poop, it's just that there weren't many occasions to do ANYTHING in private. People used to live in one-room huts that included their domestic animals, and even in a big city like Ancient Rome you had the poorer folks jammed in together in one room apartments and the wealthy had their servants/slaves always around to fetch, carry, poor a drink, bring/take away food, set a fire, whatever. Before there was indoor plumbing in bad weather people peed and pooped into chamber pots in the room they were in (which might be only room of the house) and emptied them outside later. So bodily privacy is sort of a recent development in history. People weren't squeamish before because even if they were there wasn't much choice about it, you just didn't have much or even any privacy.
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Old 07-18-2019, 02:39 PM
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Side rant- I am seeing more and more mens bathrooms with a toilet and a urinal, but no wall between them. The Op makes a point in that many people are uncomfortable in these cases, so whoever is building these makes it so only one guy can use the bathroom at a time. Very stupid. BART bathrooms were all like this, IIRC.
Five Guys does this. One small open space, one toilet, one urinal. You open the main door and have clear view of someone sitting on the toilet, and then get to urinate a foot away in plain sight. Ugh. What is the etiquette? Make conversation? But a lock on the door- poor etiquette to lock the door when crapping if the urinal is available?

Last edited by Helmut Doork; 07-18-2019 at 02:42 PM.
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Old 07-18-2019, 02:41 PM
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Five Guys does this. You open the main door and see have plain view of someone sitting on the toilet, and then get to urinate a foot away. Ugh. What is the etiquette? Make conversation?
I don't blame Five Guys for that, I blame the guy on the toilet who got there, saw the deal, and then didn't lock the door behind him.
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Old 07-18-2019, 02:45 PM
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I don't blame Five Guys for that, I blame the guy on the toilet who got there, saw the deal, and then didn't lock the door behind him.
After you posted I edited to add that question, sorry- that is the etiquette I assume, or rude to a person needing to urinate?

Last edited by Helmut Doork; 07-18-2019 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 07-18-2019, 02:47 PM
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After you posted I edited to add that question, sorry- that is the etiquette I assume, or rude to a person needing to urinate?
Lock the door. Please
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Old 07-18-2019, 02:50 PM
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It seems pretty obvious to me that the intent of that setup is to give the single user the option of the toilet or the urinal. Possibly to reduce mess as many men who feel it is imperative they stand to pee suck at aiming, so give them a urinal.
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Old 07-18-2019, 02:50 PM
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After you posted I edited to add that question, sorry- that is the etiquette I assume, or rude to a person needing to urinate?
I've always assumed that in a bathroom in a restaurant or store that had a single toilet and urinal with no cubicle around the toilet, the etiquette was to lock the door regardless of which you were going to use. An exception might be in a dive bar, where the toilet is going to be used mostly for urination as well.
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Old 07-18-2019, 02:55 PM
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I've always assumed that in a bathroom in a restaurant or store that had a single toilet and urinal with no cubicle around the toilet, the etiquette was to lock the door regardless of which you were going to use. An exception might be in a dive bar, where the toilet is going to be used mostly for urination as well.
Personally with this set up when urinating only I don't lock, under the assumption that someone else could come in to use the toilet to urinate, and we would be back to back so no difference really there than urinals against both walls.

I thought someone might yell at me for locking when the other is free?

Can anyone confirm if the ladies equivalent to this is two toilets facing each other, no divider?

Last edited by Helmut Doork; 07-18-2019 at 02:56 PM.
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Old 07-18-2019, 03:19 PM
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I thought someone might yell at me for locking when the other is free?
If the door has a lock, it's meant for one person at a time.

Last edited by Turek; 07-18-2019 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 07-18-2019, 03:31 PM
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Can anyone confirm if the ladies equivalent to this is two toilets facing each other, no divider?
Err.... lady here, or at least human female. I have never, ever, ever seen that arrangement in a woman's toilet. There are always dividers of some sort between the seats.

Women apparently require/demand/get more privacy than men, at least in the US.
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Old 07-18-2019, 03:34 PM
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Five Guys does this. One small open space, one toilet, one urinal. You open the main door and have clear view of someone sitting on the toilet, and then get to urinate a foot away in plain sight. Ugh. What is the etiquette? Make conversation? But a lock on the door- poor etiquette to lock the door when crapping if the urinal is available?
Right.
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Old 07-18-2019, 03:35 PM
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I don't blame Five Guys for that, I blame the guy on the toilet who got there, saw the deal, and then didn't lock the door behind him.
No, then no one else can use the urinal or wash their hands. Poor design, for which Five Guys can certainly be blamed.

Now sure, mostly we'd lock the door if doing a BM, but still, it's a bad design.
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Old 07-18-2019, 03:37 PM
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It seems pretty obvious to me that the intent of that setup is to give the single user the option of the toilet or the urinal. Possibly to reduce mess as many men who feel it is imperative they stand to pee suck at aiming, so give them a urinal.

But with a simple wall, not even a door, just a thin partition, two men can go at the same time.

It's a bad design.
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Old 07-18-2019, 03:38 PM
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If the door has a lock, it's meant for one person at a time.
Not always- my job has three toilets, three urinals and a lock.
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Old 07-18-2019, 03:39 PM
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Personally with this set up when urinating only I don't lock, under the assumption that someone else could come in to use the toilet to urinate, and we would be back to back so no difference really there than urinals against both walls.
Right, dont lock when just urinating or washing hands.
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Old 07-18-2019, 03:47 PM
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We've gone off on a tangent, haven't we?

Does anyone (besides Broomstick) have an answer to the General Questions the OP asked?
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Old 07-18-2019, 04:22 PM
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In the present day most people in almost every country will refuse to go to the toilet, as in do a poo, next to another stranger.

I don't know how sweeping you can make that generalization. For instance, Russia, India, and China.
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Old 07-18-2019, 04:34 PM
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We've gone off on a tangent, haven't we?

Does anyone (besides Broomstick) have an answer to the General Questions the OP asked?
Moderating

Yes, let's get back to the questions in the OP, rather than etiquette at Five Guys men's rooms.

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Old 07-18-2019, 04:51 PM
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When I was a small child in the 1950s, we stayed in the cottage where I was born. They had an outside toilet which was a borehole with a wooden seat with two holes. You might have thought that this would allow for two people to sit side-by-side but in fact, one of the holes was child size and allowed for adults and children to use the facility safely.
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Old 07-18-2019, 05:06 PM
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Walking Tall - The movie from 1973 based on the story of Sheriff Buford Pusser -there is a scene where the sheriff teaches a lesson to the judge who leaked his warrants and plans for raids. The Sheriff has the authority to assign offices, and he moves the judge's desk into the men's room - which features a row of toilets with no dividers.

Similarly, Toronto Star columnist Gary Lautens recounts his wife's story when they visited Moscow in the 1970's. She went into a public washroom and it was a row of toilets without dividers. All the women were staring at her, she said, it was embarrassing - they wanted to see what western women's underwear looked like. Gary says "why didn't you leave?" She replies "What, and miss the chance to see what communist underwear looked like?"

The washrooms like mentioned in the complaints in earlier posts also have the feature that the toilet is typically visible from the open door, there is no room in the layout for a privacy shield of any sort - meaning the person doing their business is visible to any walking by if the door is opened. Multi-user washrooms typically have some shield to prevent this. While two guys may be going side by side, even in the good old days it was not typically a public production I would think. Toilets used to be typically small closets or alcoves.
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Old 07-18-2019, 05:25 PM
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My first National Guard Armory was built in the 1920's. The enlisted bathroom was just six toilets, about 3 feet away from each other, and no stalls of any kind. There were six urinals on the opposite wall. The no stalls was actually convenient, because there was usually only 1 or 2 rolls of toilet paper, so no walls made it easier to pass them back and forth. Stalls were finally added sometime in the 90's, when the unit was reorganized into one that allowed women. Before the stalls, using it took some getting used to. Some people stare straight ahead, and pretend they're alone in the room, others make a social event out of it. I started as one of the first, and ended as one of the latter.

When people talk about not wanting to use sketchy bathrooms, I usually tell them that thanks to my Army training, I could poop on the side of I-95, waving at cars going by, and it wouldn't faze me a bit.
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Old 07-18-2019, 05:44 PM
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Moderating

Yes, let's get back to the questions in the OP, rather than etiquette at Five Guys men's rooms.

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The two are actually directly connected. Why do guys feel uncomfortable using the urinal with another guy taking a dump right there? Why do guys feel uncomfortable using the toilet with anther guys also using one, in the open? Same question, really. How and when did we become squeamish about this?

However, guys dont feel uncomfortable peeing next to another guy. Well, yes, some do. But in general the Op asks a valid question.

Last edited by DrDeth; 07-18-2019 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:02 PM
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The two are actually directly connected. Why do guys feel uncomfortable using the urinal with another guy taking a dump right there? Why do guys feel uncomfortable using the toilet with anther guys also using one, in the open? Same question, really. How and when did we become squeamish about this?

However, guys dont feel uncomfortable peeing next to another guy. Well, yes, some do. But in general the Op asks a valid question.
Moderating

That we're [meaning people in the US] squeamish now is not really part of the OP. We know that. Aside from Broomstick, people are mostly just offering anecdotes about their personal experiences. As it is, this thread is most suited for IMHO. Some actual factual information is going to be necessary for it stay in GQ. If you wish to tell us about your personal bathroom habits you can start a new thread in IMHO.

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Last edited by Colibri; 07-18-2019 at 06:09 PM.
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:48 PM
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To be honest, Broomstick pretty much covered it. Privacy of any sort is a relatively recent development. I think Burke would contend that it all changed with the invention of the chimney. That enabled the upper classes to move to the second floor, away from the riff-raff.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:03 PM
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During the 1960s, I attended, and then was a counselor at, a summer camp for boys in tidewater Virginia. The bathroom facility consisted of a row of five toilets, side by side, on one side of the room. And on the other, just a few feet away, a long trough to pee into.

No dividers at all. Once inside this small building, everything was in plain sight of everything else. I didn't think anything of it then. I've gotten used to having much more privacy since.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:18 PM
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Plus, until recently indoor plumbing was a rarity. Running water, and water as a utility to most (rich) houses, IIRC, is about a 1800's invention. I knew people who didn't get running water and plumbing in their farmhouse until around the late 50's or early 60's in Canada. Without running water, no flush toilets. You had the choice of a chamber pot or outhouse. (In the WC Fields movie the Dentist, he accidentally kicks a pot that had been under the bed - obviously in the days before the Hayes Code. ) Another side note - were chamber pots for 1 and 2 or just 1? I think some had a lid to help cover the smell, which would be handy either case. hence the expression, "don't have a pot to piss in" meaning you had to go outdoors even in winter.

Perhaps that's where the tendency evolved - presumably most outhouses for private homes were one-holers, coupled with the American puritanism or Victorian prudishness about all things sexual/biological such as baring the nether regions in public. They'd be enclosed thanks to weather and keeping out the bigger critters; you wouldn't want your refuge occupied by a bear that couldn't find the woods.

Someday I'll have to take the NYC Tenement Museum tour and see what they did for waste elimination in crowded cities before running water... or were those built after running water? I recall in the less upscale areas of London you could still see where water and sewer pipes were run up the outside of the building and through the wall to retrofit plumbing in 1800's buildings. Those slum-like row houses in British cities had an outhouse in the tiny yard out back.

Old castles often had a few holes overhanging the walls. (Privy or garderobe). You dumped, so to speak, into the moat. In some cases they built a chimney affair to hide the skid marks down the walls; famously, one castle was taken by invaders when a few brave souls did the chimney climb one night to open the gates.

Royalty as I recall from tours of palaces had absolutely no privacy. they did their business, often in an open chair in the room near the bedroom, and a servant took out the bucket. There's a scene in the Madness of King George where the one doctor is complaining nobody's paying attention to George's blue pee, while the other quacks ooh and ah over his perfectly fine stools in a pot. Those giant empty galleries in Versailles were before the revolution filled with two stories of wooden construction apartments to house the thousands of courtiers and servants, and the complaint was that people would pee and even shit in the corners and stairwells - whether they felt the need to be private or just hid because they were being filthy pigs, who knows?

Last edited by md2000; 07-18-2019 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:30 PM
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It seems pretty obvious to me that the intent of that setup is to give the single user the option of the toilet or the urinal. Possibly to reduce mess as many men who feel it is imperative they stand to pee suck at aiming, so give them a urinal.
It seems clear to me that the intent is to crowd a urinal into a wheel-chair-accessable space. So that the space that is "wasted" around an accessable toilet is double-purposed.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:40 PM
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When I was 9 I was using a 3-hole deep-drop toilet. And from what I've seen on TV, that was always a common thing, and still is where people are doing that at home.

In a national park, they'll drill a hole an place a toiled over it, If it fills up, they'll dig another hole. but when you are digging it out yourelf, you just dig a bigger hole, and put more seats it. It just means that you have conversations instead of reading or watching your iPad.

In Melbourne, we had a building tradition that in a private home toilets were in a tiny room with a door, like a toilet stall, with at least one other door between the toilet and the living area. It derived from ba tradition where the toilet was somewhere out the back. but in Arizona, the toilet was placed in the bathroom, and I wasn't brought up with any particular expectation of privacy.
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Old 07-18-2019, 07:50 PM
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Another side note - were chamber pots for 1 and 2 or just 1? I think some had a lid to help cover the smell, which would be handy either case.
Both, in practice. At least in the cities where building a latrine would be difficult to impossible (there is a still a problem with installing toilets in some slums in some parts of the world - National Geographic did an article fairly recently about toilets, including showing the wide range of toilet facilities ranging from "taking a crap in an open field in full view of the neighbors" through various latrines and outhouses up to modern-tech stuff that could be found in in Europe, the US, or Japan). Out in the rural areas they might have been used mostly for pee and some other arrangement for poop most of the time, but in inclement weather it's a heck of a lot more appealing to pee and crap in a bucket than to go outside. And the outside facility, even in places like Europe or China or Japan and other early civilized places could still be just an open field - hole-in-the-ground latrines aren't even universal today.

It should be noted, however, that "stale" urine - that is, the aged stuff that has turned partially into ammonia - used to be a common de-greaser and cleaner in Ye Olde Days. In Ancient Rome various craftsmen types who needed this stuff for industrial purposes would, essentially, set up public pissoirs outside their workshops, providing a place for men (at least) to unload their bladders and a source of raw material for the workshops. So for those purposes yes, pee and poop would be kept separate. Likewise, in a frontier type household folks would reserve at least some pee for such purposes although, like I alluded to, if there's a blizzard raging outside the door not freezing to death while taking a crap might take precedence over making more cleaner for getting sheep bits out of raw wool.

And for the sick, the chamber pot probably also doubled as a puke bucket as well, just as modern flush toilets are also used for that purpose.

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Perhaps that's where the tendency evolved - presumably most outhouses for private homes were one-holers, coupled with the American puritanism or Victorian prudishness about all things sexual/biological such as baring the nether regions in public.
See prior post about two-holers with different sized holes - you really did not want your young children falling into the cesspit. Even before knowledge about bacteria and disease in bodily waste, it was known that concentrations of either human or animal shit in confined spaces can lead to build up of toxic gases, potentially dense enough to cause unconsciousness (in which case you risk drowning in raw sewage) or even death (for really big cesspits).

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They'd be enclosed thanks to weather and keeping out the bigger critters; you wouldn't want your refuge occupied by a bear that couldn't find the woods.
Between the in-laws that still lived up in the mountains/down in the holler and some extensive backpacking/camping in my youth, I've a few stories regarding wildlife and latrines, including a possum dumped down a vent-hole as prank (in-laws) and a young woman who discovered wasps had built a nest underneath the sitting-hole in a seldom used campsite latrine the hard way. Nobody likes getting pissed on, including (or especially) wasps. We regressed not quite to crapping in an open field by doing so behind the shrubbery which was not quite as thick and luxuriant as we would have liked for privacy, but had the advantage of not being occupied by anything that could harm us while our underwear was down around our ankles.

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Someday I'll have to take the NYC Tenement Museum tour and see what they did for waste elimination in crowded cities before running water... or were those built after running water?
Both.

There are some very, very ancient sites that show no signs of plumbing or latrines (Çatal Hüyük, for example - apparently bodily waste was carried to middens outside the settlement along with other garbage) and others had flushing toilets of a sort from a very early period (Mohenjo-daro in the Indus valley around 2500 BC). Prior to the 19th Century, though, a sanitation system required a nearby river which was, basically, diverted in part or in whole to create a flushing mechanism. Settlements without such water to spare did not have running water although some cities during a heavy rainstorm might have "running sewage" as the rain turned the crap in the streets into a flowing liquid. Other cities would dig cesspits. Really, sanitary arrangements from the dawn of history to present have ranged widely from "none at all" to "amazingly effective".

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Those giant empty galleries in Versailles were before the revolution filled with two stories of wooden construction apartments to house the thousands of courtiers and servants, and the complaint was that people would pee and even shit in the corners and stairwells - whether they felt the need to be private or just hid because they were being filthy pigs, who knows?
Or there was a lack of bathroom facilities in the place but when ya gotta go ya gotta go.
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:10 PM
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See prior post about two-holers with different sized holes - you really did not want your young children falling into the cesspit.
Children, or....
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:12 PM
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Once one realizes that the ancient Romans wiped their anus with a sponge on a stick, which was cleaned by washing it in a bucket of water and salt or vinegar, then it makes sense why they all defecated together in one space, as walls would get in the way when they were passing it around.
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:24 PM
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The most disturbing part of that link was the bit talking about gladiator who used one to commit suicide...
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:49 PM
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Side rant- I am seeing more and more mens bathrooms with a toilet and a urinal, but no wall between them. The Op makes a point in that many people are uncomfortable in these cases, so whoever is building these makes it so only one guy can use the bathroom at a time. Very stupid. BART bathrooms were all like this, IIRC.
I've only seen one BART men's room since 2001, but I don't remember any of them being like this. Mostly they were single person bathrooms with just a toilet and a lock. I think they didn't want more than one man in there at a time.
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:53 PM
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When I was a small child in the 1950s, we stayed in the cottage where I was born. They had an outside toilet which was a borehole with a wooden seat with two holes. You might have thought that this would allow for two people to sit side-by-side but in fact, one of the holes was child size and allowed for adults and children to use the facility safely.
Gives a whole new meaning to "dropping the kids off at the pool," doesn't it?
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Old 07-18-2019, 08:59 PM
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During the 1960s, I attended, and then was a counselor at, a summer camp for boys in tidewater Virginia. The bathroom facility consisted of a row of five toilets, side by side, on one side of the room. And on the other, just a few feet away, a long trough to pee into...
My high school was built circa 1970 and the toilets in the boys locker-room did have dividers, but no doors. Thankfully the stalls in the other restrooms did have doors.

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...Or there was a lack of bathroom facilities in the place but when ya gotta go ya gotta go.
Buckingham Palace was short on toilets will into the 20th century, and as late as the 1920s debutantes being presented at court who needed to the facilities has to resort to a chamber pot behind a curtain.
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Old 07-18-2019, 09:21 PM
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This makes me think of a Chinese movie (made in 2006, set in the 1950s) that features a boarding school where the "bathroom" is a long room with a water-filled trench running down either side. (Screencaps from three different scenes.) Those type toilets are still in use in some places.
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Old 07-18-2019, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by md2000 View Post
Plus, until recently indoor plumbing was a rarity. Running water, and water as a utility to most (rich) houses, IIRC, is about a 1800's invention. I knew people who didn't get running water and plumbing in their farmhouse until around the late 50's or early 60's in Canada. Without running water, no flush toilets. You had the choice of a chamber pot or outhouse. (In the WC Fields movie the Dentist, he accidentally kicks a pot that had been under the bed - obviously in the days before the Hayes Code. ) Another side note - were chamber pots for 1 and 2 or just 1? I think some had a lid to help cover the smell, which would be handy either case. hence the expression, "don't have a pot to piss in" meaning you had to go outdoors even in winter.

Perhaps that's where the tendency evolved - presumably most outhouses for private homes were one-holers, coupled with the American puritanism or Victorian prudishness about all things sexual/biological such as baring the nether regions in public. They'd be enclosed thanks to weather and keeping out the bigger critters; you wouldn't want your refuge occupied by a bear that couldn't find the woods.

Someday I'll have to take the NYC Tenement Museum tour and see what they did for waste elimination in crowded cities before running water... or were those built after running water? I recall in the less upscale areas of London you could still see where water and sewer pipes were run up the outside of the building and through the wall to retrofit plumbing in 1800's buildings. Those slum-like row houses in British cities had an outhouse in the tiny yard out back.

Old castles often had a few holes overhanging the walls. (Privy or garderobe). You dumped, so to speak, into the moat. In some cases they built a chimney affair to hide the skid marks down the walls; famously, one castle was taken by invaders when a few brave souls did the chimney climb one night to open the gates.

Royalty as I recall from tours of palaces had absolutely no privacy. they did their business, often in an open chair in the room near the bedroom, and a servant took out the bucket. There's a scene in the Madness of King George where the one doctor is complaining nobody's paying attention to George's blue pee, while the other quacks ooh and ah over his perfectly fine stools in a pot. Those giant empty galleries in Versailles were before the revolution filled with two stories of wooden construction apartments to house the thousands of courtiers and servants, and the complaint was that people would pee and even shit in the corners and stairwells - whether they felt the need to be private or just hid because they were being filthy pigs, who knows?
Royalty had no privacy? They had as much as they could afford, didn't they? If they didn't make it happen then privacy just wasn't a value to anyone.
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Old 07-19-2019, 12:11 AM
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Someday I'll have to take the NYC Tenement Museum tour and see what they did for waste elimination in crowded cities before running water... or were those built after running water?
Everything you ever wanted to know about outhouses/sewage management in NYC.
  #41  
Old 07-19-2019, 10:44 AM
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Two anecdotes.

1. Singer Patti Smith had a job where the women's toilets were in the open in a room and no one would pee during work. They were in agony by the end of the day. She named her first, very limited release album, "Piss Factory". See, artists do need to experience pain.

2. A nearby plating shop had a small restroom connecting to the main work area. Several buddies of the owner got together and planned a prank. They had someone pose as an elderly customer with a cane who was blind and somewhat confused. When he asked to go to the potty and was directed to the restroom he stumbled around and pretended to not be able to find the door. The owner pulled the door partly open and pointed the guy at it. He fumbled with the door, spun around a bit and swung the door shut - while he was still outside the restroom. He poked around with the cane until it hit something in the shop. He then proceeded to drop his pants and do a hover while he shit in the shop wastebasket. All to the horror of the business owner. The others guys were in tears laughing. So that guy didn't mind. At. All.

Dennis
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Old 07-19-2019, 07:52 PM
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It seems pretty obvious to me that the intent of that setup is to give the single user the option of the toilet or the urinal. Possibly to reduce mess as many men who feel it is imperative they stand to pee suck at aiming, so give them a urinal.
Also, a urinal uses much less water than a flush toilet. So having a urinal available saves money for the business that pays for the water, and saves water for the earth's environment.
  #43  
Old 07-19-2019, 08:34 PM
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They actually redesigned the toilets near my office to remove the barriers.

The men's room used to have two urinals, a toilet stall, and a sink. But the stall was too small to be ADA compliant. So they removed the barriers and one urinal, put a lock on the door, and made the bathroom unisex (with a sign saying to lock the door for privacy).

The woman's room nearby was also made unisex, but that just involved putting a different sign. It had a single toilet and sink. It was several months before I realized men could use it.

Last edited by RealityChuck; 07-19-2019 at 08:34 PM.
  #44  
Old 07-19-2019, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Helmut Doork View Post
Personally with this set up when urinating only I don't lock, under the assumption that someone else could come in to use the toilet to urinate, and we would be back to back so no difference really there than urinals against both walls.

I thought someone might yell at me for locking when the other is free?

Can anyone confirm if the ladies equivalent to this is two toilets facing each other, no divider?
There's no female equivalent, since the "urinal and throne" arrangement is for a single user.




Quote:
Originally Posted by drad dog View Post
Royalty had no privacy? They had as much as they could afford, didn't they? If they didn't make it happen then privacy just wasn't a value to anyone.
You mean, those people who got to consummate their marriages in front of witnesses? Way back when as today, famous people often have less privacy than regular citizens.
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Last edited by Nava; 07-19-2019 at 09:44 PM.
  #45  
Old 07-20-2019, 12:19 AM
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I think I've read of royalty granting an audience while defecating. And wasn't it an honor to be privileged to do the wiping for the king?
  #46  
Old 07-20-2019, 12:30 AM
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I think I've read of royalty granting an audience while defecating. And wasn't it an honor to be privileged to do the wiping for the king?
The Groom of the Stool was an important office under the Tudors.
  #47  
Old 07-20-2019, 02:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Broomstick View Post
It used to be that there was little or no privacy in life for anyone, whether slave or serf or even royalty. You did everything around other people, so why would bodily elimination be an exception?

I think it was with the rise of privacy (which is more recent than folks might suppose) that folks started peeing and pooping out of sight of others. People weren't squeamish before because even if they were there wasn't much choice about it, you just didn't have much or even any privacy.
Painting with a bit too broad a brush there. There were widely varying customs regarding bodily elimination, before recent times. For instance, early ethnographers noted how certain Siberian hunter-gatherers would routinely walk wide off course on the tundra to relieve themselves, so no-one (including their own folk) could witness the act.

Last edited by Toxylon; 07-20-2019 at 02:38 AM.
  #48  
Old 07-20-2019, 08:15 AM
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Here, if I'm lucky, is a nice paiting of the front part of a sailing ship (the head)
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...act=mrc&uact=8

I can't give a better link because the computer I'm using doesn't have a browser that works with the modern web.

Last edited by Melbourne; 07-20-2019 at 08:16 AM.
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