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Old 09-12-2019, 09:29 AM
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This One Isn't Even Close


Re: this warning. Arguing that an all-black school purporting to teach "black culture" as an alternative to whatever-it-is that is being taught in other schools and their test scores are abysmal - is trolling? WTH?

This isn't even a gray area. Please rescind the warning.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:21 AM
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No skunk thinks his own ass smells. OF COURSE you don't think it's problematic.

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Old 09-12-2019, 10:22 AM
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If you were trying to say that this school is teaching a culture of failure, which is black culture, then you were perfectly clear, and were saying a trolly racist thing. If you were trying to say anything else, you abjectly failed to communicate your idea clearly.
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:40 AM
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I can't parse this sentence: "Arguing that an all-black school purporting to teach "black culture" as an alternative to whatever-it-is that is being taught in other schools and their test scores are abysmal - is trolling?"

What does it mean? What were you arguing?
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:47 AM
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If you didn't intend to correlate between blackness and stupidity, it would have been easy to say so. Still is.
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Old 09-12-2019, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Re: this warning. Arguing that an all-black school purporting to teach "black culture" as an alternative to whatever-it-is that is being taught in other schools and their test scores are abysmal - is trolling? WTH?

This isn't even a gray area. Please rescind the warning.

Regards,
Shodan
It wasn't trolling. It was racist. So... you're right? I guess?
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Old 09-12-2019, 11:12 AM
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LOL, I got warned for calling you a liar when you lied, and sure as hell didn't come running in here like a pussy-assed bitch whining about it like Rush Limbaugh expressing his special brand of rugged individualism. Damn, guy, grow a pair.

Last edited by JohnT; 09-12-2019 at 11:13 AM.
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Old 09-12-2019, 11:25 AM
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The problem from my POV is that the flow of the thread needs to be spelled out so obviously.

The OP suggests a topic of debate, where black students are being suspended too much. The purported reason is that teachers in their schools don't understand their culture, so they discipline them for doing things (interrupting and being late were two examples mentioned) that non-black students got away with. That's debatable, so we debate it. Then this one school is mentioned, where they teach all-black culture. Presumably, since it is an all-black school, they understand the culture of their students, so racism or not understanding black culture is not going to be the issue.

Yet their test scores are abysmal. 90% are less than proficient in math, and 75% less than proficient at reading. Understanding black culture and allowing for it doesn't seem to address the problem of learning.

If you want to quibble about African-American vs. black, the name of the freaking school is the African Centered Academy. The picture on their website, to which I linked, shows all black students. And the school is in Kansas City - it's not that much of a stretch to figure out that they are teaching African American kids. Here's another quote from their website -
Quote:
Along with a rigorous college prep academic curriculum, AC Prep teaches principals of Maat and the Nguzo Saba focusing on self-esteem, empowerment and responsible citizenship, along with the classical views of traditional African society.
So, there's their culture, and the basis for their teaching.

Not seeing a lot of evidence that racist teachers who don't understand black culture are going to be an issue. Yet, their test scores suck.

So, there's the flow of the thread. Students are getting disciplined because teachers don't understand their culture. Therefore, they don't perform. Yet, at the African-centered school, they still don't perform. Which is an indication that, just maybe, the problem isn't that teachers don't understand them.

Pointing out that changing a variable doesn't seem to affect the outcome isn't trolling. It's debate.

That this African-centered school is just as bad at teaching as non-African-centered schools is a perfectly legitimate point.

Regards,
Shodan
  #9  
Old 09-12-2019, 11:28 AM
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How many times has this guy been warned? It's obviously not working. Ban him.
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Old 09-12-2019, 11:34 AM
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No, the statement in the thread was that teachers are harsher on black kids for the same behavior because the teachers are racist, either overtly or as a result of implicit bias. It's even possible that black teachers share those same biases, in some cases.

Other people made the assertion that black kids really were more poorly behaved than other kids, because black parents either have poor parenting skills, simply don't care about their kids, and/or have no sense of responsibility toward their kids' behavior at school. This was called "black culture" by the people espousing that view.

No where was educational outcomes (which is different than discipline) relevant. Furthermore, what this school means by "African Culture" is NOT what the people in that thread were describing as "black culture".
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Old 09-12-2019, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
The problem from my POV is that the flow of the thread needs to be spelled out so obviously.

The OP suggests a topic of debate, where black students are being suspended too much. The purported reason is that teachers in their schools don't understand their culture, so they discipline them for doing things (interrupting and being late were two examples mentioned) that non-black students got away with. That's debatable, so we debate it. Then this one school is mentioned, where they teach all-black culture. Presumably, since it is an all-black school, they understand the culture of their students, so racism or not understanding black culture is not going to be the issue.

Yet their test scores are abysmal. 90% are less than proficient in math, and 75% less than proficient at reading. Understanding black culture and allowing for it doesn't seem to address the problem of learning.

If you want to quibble about African-American vs. black, the name of the freaking school is the African Centered Academy. The picture on their website, to which I linked, shows all black students. And the school is in Kansas City - it's not that much of a stretch to figure out that they are teaching African American kids. Here's another quote from their website - So, there's their culture, and the basis for their teaching.

Not seeing a lot of evidence that racist teachers who don't understand black culture are going to be an issue. Yet, their test scores suck.

So, there's the flow of the thread. Students are getting disciplined because teachers don't understand their culture. Therefore, they don't perform. Yet, at the African-centered school, they still don't perform. Which is an indication that, just maybe, the problem isn't that teachers don't understand them.

Pointing out that changing a variable doesn't seem to affect the outcome isn't trolling. It's debate.

That this African-centered school is just as bad at teaching as non-African-centered schools is a perfectly legitimate point.

Regards,
Shodan
I think this would have been an interesting and thoughtful post in the thread, even if it appears to understand the main thrust of the "other side's" arguments differently than I do. Unfortunately, all we got is flippant snark that (by my reading, anyway) lazily blamed "black culture" for poor test scores.

EDIT: My understanding of the arguments in that thread is much closer to Manda JO's in the immediately prior post to this one.

Last edited by iiandyiiii; 09-12-2019 at 11:35 AM.
  #12  
Old 09-12-2019, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Re: this warning. Arguing that an all-black school purporting to teach "black culture" as an alternative to whatever-it-is that is being taught in other schools and their test scores are abysmal - is trolling? WTH?

This isn't even a gray area. Please rescind the warning.

Regards,
Shodan
Let me be clear up front. I'm not reversing the warning.

A couple other points: First, teaching black culture at that particular school wasn't an alternative, it was supplemental. Second, the thread was about discipline in schools, not test scores. Your post attributed poor test performance with black culture, whatever that may be, and said nothing about discipline.

It's not a stretch to see your post as saying black culture is defined as poor academic performance. If a person said directly that black culture involves poor academic performance, basically black people are stupid, I'd likely issue a warning for that so this is essentially the same thing.
  #13  
Old 09-12-2019, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iiandyiiii View Post
I think this would have been an interesting and thoughtful post in the thread, even if it appears to understand the main thrust of the "other side's" arguments differently than I do. Unfortunately, all we got is flippant snark that (by my reading, anyway) lazily blamed "black culture" for poor test scores.
Yup. Shodan, there's the possibility that you could learn that posts like the one you just made are interesting and not warnable. I mean, I think you've got some messed-up underlying assumptions (which I won't get into here because that's not what this thread is about), but it's worth debating.

Posts like the one that got warned are opaque and snarky. Even if you intended people to understand it as meaning the same as what you just posted, nobody understood it that way. You could learn not to make those snarky drive-by posts that have become more your signature than "regards, Shodan" is.

Or you can continue making those opaque, snarky posts, and continue getting warned. That's an option too.
  #14  
Old 09-12-2019, 12:20 PM
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LOL, I got warned for calling you a liar when you lied, and sure as hell didn't come running in here like a pussy-assed bitch whining about it like Rush Limbaugh expressing his special brand of rugged individualism. Damn, guy, grow a pair.
Do not post in ATMB just to insult someone. This is an official warning for Personal Insults outside of the Pit.
  #15  
Old 09-12-2019, 12:45 PM
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A couple other points: First, teaching black culture at that particular school wasn't an alternative, it was supplemental.
Teaching black culture at the African CENTERED Academy is supplemental? Come on.
Quote:
Second, the thread was about discipline in schools, not test scores. Your post attributed poor test performance with black culture, whatever that may be, and said nothing about discipline.
My point was, and remains, about an alleged lack of understanding of black students' culture. The African CENTERED school does no better than non-African CENTERED schools. Therefore, a lack of understanding of black students' culture does not help, and therefore a lack of understanding of black students' culture is less likely to be the cause either of student failure or suspensions.
Quote:
It's not a stretch to see your post as saying black culture is defined as poor academic performance.
What I said is exactly what I said. Black culture or the lack of it or the understanding of it or the lack of understanding of it makes no difference to poor academic performance. Teaching black culture, understanding black culture, makes no difference to the outcome of poor student performance.

Black culture is not defined as poor academic performance. Teaching black culture, or understanding black culture, is irrelevant to poor academic performance. Which indicates that failure to understand black culture is not the reason for poor academic or disciplinary outcomes - because whether they appear or not does not affect the outcomes.

It is a legitimate debate point. A difference which makes no difference, is no difference.

I would ask you to reconsider your decision.

Regards,
Shodan
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Old 09-12-2019, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Shodan View Post
Teaching black culture at the African CENTERED Academy is supplemental? Come on.
My point was, and remains, about an alleged lack of understanding of black students' culture. The African CENTERED school does no better than non-African CENTERED schools. Therefore, a lack of understanding of black students' culture does not help, and therefore a lack of understanding of black students' culture is less likely to be the cause either of student failure or suspensions.
What I said is exactly what I said. Black culture or the lack of it or the understanding of it or the lack of understanding of it makes no difference to poor academic performance. Teaching black culture, understanding black culture, makes no difference to the outcome of poor student performance.

Black culture is not defined as poor academic performance. Teaching black culture, or understanding black culture, is irrelevant to poor academic performance. Which indicates that failure to understand black culture is not the reason for poor academic or disciplinary outcomes - because whether they appear or not does not affect the outcomes.

It is a legitimate debate point. A difference which makes no difference, is no difference.

I would ask you to reconsider your decision.

Regards,
Shodan
This is a snark-free argument. I think it's incorrect on the facts, and leaves out that this has nothing to do with discipline (what are the disciplinary stats at the school in question, for example?), but it's still a real argument. The kind of argument that never gets modded.

But that's not what you did in the thread. You did a drive-by, lazy snarking, that was rather easy to see as a potshot at black Americans (whether or not it was meant as such).
  #17  
Old 09-12-2019, 01:04 PM
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This isn't even a gray area.
You're right about that. What you posted very clearly implied that "black culture" means "low educational attainment." Your post hoc attempts to recast your comment are unconvincing.
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Old 09-12-2019, 01:10 PM
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Teaching black culture at the African CENTERED Academy is supplemental? Come on.
The rest I don't care about debating but ----- I taught at an all-black Catholic School and trust me, nothing you could call culture of any color was taught. Religious or possibly community but not any race at all. What we taught was the standards needed for the future; a good all-around education. And considering how many of the kids did (and continue to) succeed we must have been doing something right.
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Old 09-12-2019, 01:20 PM
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This is a snark-free argument. I think it's incorrect on the facts, and leaves out that this has nothing to do with discipline (what are the disciplinary stats at the school in question, for example?), but it's still a real argument. The kind of argument that never gets modded.

But that's not what you did in the thread. You did a drive-by, lazy snarking, that was rather easy to see as a potshot at black Americans (whether or not it was meant as such).
QFT. Perhaps if the OP would put more effort into his arguments, rather than merely attempting to appear adorably pithy, his points would be better understood, and he wouldn't have to clarify his remarks and plead for mercy in ATMB.
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Old 09-12-2019, 01:51 PM
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Great job, Bone.

Shodan, that warning was clearly deserved.

Regards,
hajario
  #21  
Old 09-12-2019, 02:00 PM
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One - one! - data point of a black school emphasizing black culture and not creating an immediate miracle by producing high test scores. Could the lack of current results be from the students living in a racist culture that might take years to overturn? No. Blacks be stupid or lazy. All of them. Says a white guy.

Hey, white guy, I got a completely fair proposition for you. Let's take all racism out of American culture for a generation or two and then do some testing. I'll agree to go by those results.
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Old 09-12-2019, 02:16 PM
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My 2 cents:
My immediate interpretation of what Shodan posted was that it was an example of a school that was not effectively teaching the basics based on the grades shown.

It seemed more about not allowing people to make excuses than anything else.
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Old 09-12-2019, 02:20 PM
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First off, as Bone says, the warning will not be walked back. Absorb that fact.

I do want to give you a bit of a 'behind the curtain' glimpse of how we work, though. Just so you can - hopefully - learn, Shodan.

We received two reports about that thread. The first came in yesterday and concerned your earlier post in the thread...the one that used the 'black cat' analogy.

Your three humble moderators spent some time discussing the report in a discussion loop with just the three of us. Is it warnable? Is it notable? Is it an offense at all? In the end, we collectively decided to extend the benefit of the doubt and not warn you.

The second one came in this morning concerning the post that got you warned. It was decided - I won't reveal how - that you were trolling for reaction. Your intent may be sincere but you were going about it in such a way as to intentionally provoke a reaction. That's what got you the warning.

Learn from this. You can be a valuable poster. I believe that. But if you persist in designing your arguments in such a way as to provoke reactions as well as debating you may continue to pick up warnings. You won't enjoy that.
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Old 09-12-2019, 02:29 PM
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First off, as Bone says, the warning will not be walked back. Absorb that fact.

I do want to give you a bit of a 'behind the curtain' glimpse of how we work, though. Just so you can - hopefully - learn, Shodan.

We received two reports about that thread. The first came in yesterday and concerned your earlier post in the thread...the one that used the 'black cat' analogy.

Your three humble moderators spent some time discussing the report in a discussion loop with just the three of us. Is it warnable? Is it notable? Is it an offense at all? In the end, we collectively decided to extend the benefit of the doubt and not warn you.

The second one came in this morning concerning the post that got you warned. It was decided - I won't reveal how - that you were trolling for reaction. Your intent may be sincere but you were going about it in such a way as to intentionally provoke a reaction. That's what got you the warning.

Learn from this. You can be a valuable poster. I believe that. But if you persist in designing your arguments in such a way as to provoke reactions as well as debating you may continue to pick up warnings. You won't enjoy that.
You do realize that any post that has an apparent or real critique of an aspect of culture, religion, ideology, or any other group characteristic may provoke a reaction? For that matter practically any contentious subject can provoke so-called reactions.

That said, Shodan should not be surprised that that post was warned for something or another.

Last edited by octopus; 09-12-2019 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 09-12-2019, 02:38 PM
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"After further review, the call on the field has been confirmed!"
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  #26  
Old 09-12-2019, 02:40 PM
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You do realize that any post that has an apparent or real critique of an aspect of culture, religion, ideology, or any other group characteristic may provoke a reaction? For that matter practically any contentious subject can provoke so-called reactions.

That said, Shodan should not be surprised that that post was warned for something or another.
There is a far cry, my friend, between provoking a reaction with a post and intentionally designing a post to provoke a reaction.

The first indicates argument. The second - as Bone warned - indicates trolling.
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Old 09-12-2019, 03:12 PM
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"After further review, the call on the field has been confirmed!"
The mods need to check with the reviewers in New York before making a final judgment.
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Old 09-12-2019, 03:19 PM
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Blacks be stupid or lazy. All of them. Says a white guy.
Never said this. And I would ask the mods to consider that this is the kind of reaction that can be expected to any post on certain subjects, no matter how that post is designed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Chance
There is a far cry, my friend, between provoking a reaction with a post and intentionally designing a post to provoke a reaction.

The first indicates argument. The second - as Bone warned - indicates trolling.
I do not see any difference.

But see above. That is a reaction to what I posted. Or rather, to what the poster in question thought I posted. It is not possible for me to design a post on some topics that cannot provoke that kind of reaction.
Quote:
But if you persist in designing your arguments in such a way as to provoke reactions as well as debating you may continue to pick up warnings.
I am not clear on how I am to design my arguments to get people to debate, but not react.

The post about an African centered school that is failing its students just as much as any other kind of school is a legitimate debate point. And yet the accusation that I am saying "all blacks are stupid" is the immediate reaction.
Quote:
It was decided - I won't reveal how - that you were trolling for reaction. Your intent may be sincere but you were going about it in such a way as to intentionally provoke a reaction. That's what got you the warning.
Of course I'm trying to get a reaction - it's a debate. I am trying to make a point, and IMO the point is a legitimate one. For heaven's sake, I cited the school's own website to demonstrate it.
Quote:
Meanwhile, you're selling a narrative about black kids that aligns nicely with the narratives created by slaveholders to justify slavery. In your mind, I suppose it is a total coincidence that you think these kids are lazy, undisciplined, and disrespectful because of their racial identity and that this was also historically a core precept of white supremacy. Total coincidence, right Shodan?
Quote:
Holy crap! Kearsen1 has solved the problem of racism!
Quote:
Dearie dearie me, someone bring me my smelling salts! First graders running around the room and calling teachers names!!...

Well, typically, the only alternative to suspension, when we're talking about school discipline, is a good swift punch to the stomach.
So, what say you - legitimate debate points, trolling, or sincere efforts at debate but phrased so as to provoke a reaction?

Regards,
Shodan
  #29  
Old 09-12-2019, 03:23 PM
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I do not see any difference.
Well, then.

How sad for you that the moderators of Great Debates and Elections unanimously disagree with you.

I trust you shall, somehow, persevere.

Last edited by Jonathan Chance; 09-12-2019 at 03:23 PM.
  #30  
Old 09-12-2019, 03:26 PM
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Were the quotes I supplied trolling, legitimate debate, or sincere but designed to get a reaction?

Regards,
Shodan
  #31  
Old 09-12-2019, 03:36 PM
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I have, in truth, no interest in a prolonged back-and-forth parsing things with you.

The decision's made, you must live with it.

Adapt.
  #32  
Old 09-12-2019, 03:52 PM
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I have, in truth, no interest in a prolonged back-and-forth parsing things with you.

The decision's made, you must live with it.

Adapt.
This is a highly unsatisfying post. If this is indeed the attitude, then why allow posters to start threads in ATMB that question Moderator decisions?
  #33  
Old 09-12-2019, 03:56 PM
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This is a highly unsatisfying post. If this is indeed the attitude, then why allow posters to start threads in ATMB that question Moderator decisions?
Because it's the case in this specific instance, doesn't mean it's the case in all instances. Mod rulings do get reversed, or also, offending posters see the error of their ways and apologise, and move on.

Neither seems about to happen here, though.
  #34  
Old 09-12-2019, 04:06 PM
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This is a highly unsatisfying post. If this is indeed the attitude, then why allow posters to start threads in ATMB that question Moderator decisions?
I'll answer this one.

Shodan asked the warning be rescinded.
He was told it would not be and why.
Shodan then reiterated and argument and against asked it be rescinded.
I restated that it would not be and gave some insight into the backstage process.
He then tries to argue the point and attempts to define specific things that might mitigate his warning.

So two of the three mods have answered his question. Continuing to attempt to parse the warning by argument smacks of trying to define bright lines he can play at his later convenience.

It's long been a policy of mine - I won't speak for Tom and Bone, here - that the lines are fuzzy for a reason. Bright, well-demarcated lines are most often used to find how close one can come without cross. Limits-testers are rampant on the Internet. I prefer fuzzy lines to encourage posters to not test limits. It forces them to, as I said, adapt.
  #35  
Old 09-12-2019, 04:06 PM
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My warmest regards to the moderators in this instance.
  #36  
Old 09-12-2019, 04:10 PM
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Never said this. And I would ask the mods to consider that this is the kind of reaction that can be expected to any post on certain subjects, no matter how that post is designed.
I do not see any difference.

But see above. That is a reaction to what I posted. Or rather, to what the poster in question thought I posted. It is not possible for me to design a post on some topics that cannot provoke that kind of reaction.I am not clear on how I am to design my arguments to get people to debate, but not react.

The post about an African centered school that is failing its students just as much as any other kind of school is a legitimate debate point. And yet the accusation that I am saying "all blacks are stupid" is the immediate reaction.
Of course I'm trying to get a reaction - it's a debate. I am trying to make a point, and IMO the point is a legitimate one. For heaven's sake, I cited the school's own website to demonstrate it.
So, what say you - legitimate debate points, trolling, or sincere efforts at debate but phrased so as to provoke a reaction?

Regards,
Shodan
You cited a page called niche.com.

https://www.niche.com/k12/african-ce...ansas-city-mo/


It's not their page.


Niche ranks nearly 100,000 schools and districts based on statistics and millions of opinions from students and parents.
  #37  
Old 09-12-2019, 05:32 PM
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I'll answer this one.

Shodan asked the warning be rescinded.
He was told it would not be and why.
Shodan then reiterated and argument and against asked it be rescinded.
I restated that it would not be and gave some insight into the backstage process.
He then tries to argue the point and attempts to define specific things that might mitigate his warning.

So two of the three mods have answered his question. Continuing to attempt to parse the warning by argument smacks of trying to define bright lines he can play at his later convenience.

It's long been a policy of mine - I won't speak for Tom and Bone, here - that the lines are fuzzy for a reason. Bright, well-demarcated lines are most often used to find how close one can come without cross. Limits-testers are rampant on the Internet. I prefer fuzzy lines to encourage posters to not test limits. It forces them to, as I said, adapt.
If one is not crossing a line who cares if one gets close? If close is the problem that should be the line. Now, not being able to articulate a line is a legitimate issue.
  #38  
Old 09-12-2019, 06:18 PM
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Never said this. And I would ask the mods to consider that this is the kind of reaction that can be expected to any post on certain subjects, no matter how that post is designed.
And my post got a reaction from you. Getting a reaction is the normal, expected outcome from any post more substantial than "+1".

You were not warned because your post drew a reaction. You were warned because of the type of post, a post that was the equivalent of a monkey flinging its poo. You would never let others get away with a refutation of a class of examples by a single data point, let alone one so ripped out of context that all meaning from it was extinguished. Your post contributed nothing, allowed of no thoughtful response, and had no substance other than taunting. The clear implication is that you were not trying to make any legitimate argument, but heap scorn on the notion that racism has any place in the discussion. Deny this as you will, but your post speaks much more loudly.

Hey, at least appreciate the irony that if you can judge based on one data point, you can also wind up being judged on one.
  #39  
Old 09-12-2019, 06:23 PM
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If one is not crossing a line who cares if one gets close? If close is the problem that should be the line. Now, not being able to articulate a line is a legitimate issue.
You're really unclear on the concept here.
  #40  
Old 09-12-2019, 06:32 PM
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Octopus, do you have kids? My daughter went through a phase where she thought it was funny to sneak up on the dog while he was sleeping and yank his tail, so we told her to stop that. So she'd sneak up and pull on his legs or ears or poke him, and try to say she was just petting him and anyway she didn't pull his tail. Then we told her don't touch the dog while he's sleeping so she'd either throw things at him or make noise because that wasn't touching him. Finally we just said do not bother the dog or you will be punished, and we caught her sneaking up on him so she got punished. Of course she cried and whined and said she wasn't doing anything and didn't deserve to be punished, and if we let her off she'd never bother the dog again ever.

We could articulate the bright line just fine but it wasn't until we went to the fuzzy line and made her face the consequences that she learned to leave the dog alone. It sounds like that's how the moderators are acting in this case.
  #41  
Old 09-12-2019, 06:39 PM
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How would you feel about a fuzzy speed limit? Where the cops decide when you're going too fast?
  #42  
Old 09-12-2019, 06:55 PM
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How would you feel about a fuzzy speed limit? Where the cops decide when you're going too fast?
Do you seriously expect private property to have the same rules as public property?
  #43  
Old 09-12-2019, 07:08 PM
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Speed limits are totally different than what amounts to a polite conversation in a privately owned space. Just like you can act one way around your friends and family but the same behavior would get you in trouble at work or in a restaurant or something. Rules of etiquette are fuzzy but we all know someone who's acting like a jerk at a party when we see one.

Last edited by tricoteuse; 09-12-2019 at 07:09 PM.
  #44  
Old 09-12-2019, 07:12 PM
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How would you feel about a fuzzy speed limit? Where the cops decide when you're going too fast?
Why you think message board rules are like actual laws is beyond me but I will assume that you are being sincere for the sake of argument.

A speed limit is analogous to a threat of violence here. It's something that's not fuzzy.

Reckless driving is an example of a fuzzy line where a cop uses judgment. Both have both things.

I'd tell you "nice try" but that was such a feeble attempt that I'm not even going to do that.
  #45  
Old 09-12-2019, 07:20 PM
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You're really unclear on the concept here.
Fuzzy, subjective rules are intrinsically unclear.
  #46  
Old 09-12-2019, 07:49 PM
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Actually, speed limits aren't all that bright line, either, as anyone who's ever been ticketed for "driving too fast for conditions" will tell you. Go ahead and argue with a judge that there should be specific, bright-line speed limits that change for each precise road condition and see how far that gets you.
  #47  
Old 09-12-2019, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by octopus View Post
Fuzzy, subjective rules are intrinsically unclear.
In this case this is a feature, not a bug. "Don't be a jerk" and "don't troll" are inherently fuzzy. There's no way to make them not fuzzy. Highlighting the fuzziness should dissuade posters from trying to find exactly where the line is just so they can push up to it and no further, since there is no such line.
  #48  
Old 09-12-2019, 08:02 PM
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Fuzzy, subjective rules are intrinsically unclear.
Yes! Exactly.

Im glad you get it. Fuzzy lines encourage better behavior through uncertainty on the part of misbehavers.
  #49  
Old 09-12-2019, 08:18 PM
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Fuzzy, subjective rules are intrinsically unclear.
That's the beauty of it!
__________________
That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die.
  #50  
Old 09-12-2019, 09:04 PM
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LOL.

Shodan, your post was a perfect example of "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes."

Congratulations on your well-deserved warning.
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