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Old 09-12-2019, 05:04 PM
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What time is it a mile east of me.


Okay, I know the official time is the same time as me. But if we were to do the math, what time would it be a mile east of me if it were exactly 12pm?
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:07 PM
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What lattitude?
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It may be because I'm a drooling simpleton with the attention span of a demented gnat, but would you mind explaining everything in words of one syllable. 140 chars max.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:08 PM
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If I understand your question properly, the answer is going to depend quite a bit on your latitude. At / near the South Pole, one mile east is going to be quite a few time zones away. At the equator, not so much.

ETA: ninja'd, but I want extra credit for spelling latitude correctly.

Last edited by HurricaneDitka; 09-12-2019 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:08 PM
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Wouldn't that depend on your latitude? Time, in the sense you're asking, is a function of the angle of arc you subtend on the surface of the globe, so 1 mile at thee equator would be different than one mile at, say, 45o north.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by HurricaneDitka View Post
If I understand your question properly, the answer is going to depend quite a bit on your latitude. At / near the South Pole, one mile east is going to be quite a few time zones away. At the equator, not so much.

ETA: ninja'd, but I want extra credit for spelling latitude correctly.
I blame my phone. It should have caught my idiocy.
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It may be because I'm a drooling simpleton with the attention span of a demented gnat, but would you mind explaining everything in words of one syllable. 140 chars max.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:15 PM
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I didn't even think about latitude.

I live in Dallas, but if using the equator makes it easier, we can go with that.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:15 PM
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Yes, it depends on your latitude. At the equator, the earth's circumference is not too far from 25000 miles. So there, one mile is roughly 1/1000 of an hour, so about 4 seconds. At 45 degrees, it's close to 17,500 miles. One mile would be about 1/750 of an hour, so about 5 seconds.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:18 PM
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What is your latitude? It is 4 minutes later for each degree of longitude. At the equator, a degree is approximately 25,000/360, nearly 70 miles. It comes to about 3.5 sec. But if you are at 45 degrees latitude, the length of a circle at the latitude is not 25,000 miles, but only the square root of 2 (cos 45) times that so that one mile east is nearly 5 seconds. Other latitudes will give other answers.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:21 PM
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You guys are great.

Thanks.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:21 PM
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The circumference of the Earth at the Equator is 24,901 miles. Since there are 86,400 seconds in a day, it will be 3.47 seconds later by sun time one mile east of you if you are on the Equator.

ETA: Ninja'd, but I gave more decimal places.

Last edited by Colibri; 09-12-2019 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:24 PM
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Running the numbers for Dallas, I get 4.1 seconds, which seems about right, so hopefully I didn't do anything silly in the calculation.
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Old 09-12-2019, 05:38 PM
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Why do you want to know what time it is in Mesquite?
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Old 09-12-2019, 06:39 PM
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Fun fact: If you're at 89 59' 51.745'' N (give or take a few feet of latitude), then the time a mile east of you is ... the same as the time where you are.

Well, it was fun for me.
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Old 09-12-2019, 07:13 PM
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Fun fact: If you're at 89 59' 51.745'' N (give or take a few feet of latitude), then the time a mile east of you is ... the same as the time where you are.

Well, it was fun for me.
What time is it, Yogi?

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Old 09-12-2019, 08:40 PM
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What time is it, Yogi?

Yogi Berra: You mean now?

Moe: Shemp, what does your watch say?

Shemp: Nothing, you got to look at it.
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Old 09-12-2019, 10:16 PM
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Tom Scott's take on a similar question.
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Old 09-13-2019, 07:01 AM
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You're calculation must allow some latitude for the distance you are from the equator.
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Old 09-13-2019, 07:10 AM
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Thanks for the answers guys.

So just to wrap my mind around this. Is a guy sitting at the equator spinning around on the planet faster than a guy siting in Alaska?
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Old 09-13-2019, 07:22 AM
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If we want to nitpick, altitude affects the equation also because of gravitational time dilation. Hey, a millionth of a second here, a millionth of a second there; it adds up.
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Old 09-13-2019, 07:34 AM
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Thanks for the answers guys.

So just to wrap my mind around this. Is a guy sitting at the equator spinning around on the planet faster than a guy siting in Alaska?
In relation to what?
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Old 09-13-2019, 07:36 AM
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I came in to link that Tom Scott video but Saint Cad beat me to it.

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Well, it was fun for me.
Was it also fun when you shot the bear? What color was it?

Me too.
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Old 09-13-2019, 07:38 AM
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Thanks for the answers guys.

So just to wrap my mind around this. Is a guy sitting at the equator spinning around on the planet faster than a guy siting in Alaska?
Yes.

That's not just an odd bit of trivia, The difference between the speed of rotation at the equator and the speed at higher latitudes drives much of the Earth's weather and ocean currents.

An overly simple explanation: A mass of air at the equator is moving at about 1000 mph (1600 km/hr). If it moves north it passes over land that is not rotating as quickly as that, so begins to move from west to east. Similarly, a mass of air from the north that expands southward will begin to move from east to west. Voila, the clockwise motion of a hurricane.
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Old 09-13-2019, 07:42 AM
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In relation to what?
Well, you got tow people that have traveled vastly different distances in the same 24hrs.

So one of them has to be going faster right? Or am I missing something?
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Old 09-13-2019, 07:44 AM
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Yes.

That's not just an odd bit of trivia, The difference between the speed of rotation at the equator and the speed at higher latitudes drives much of the Earth's weather and ocean currents.

An overly simple explanation: A mass of air at the equator is moving at about 1000 mph (1600 km/hr). If it moves north it passes over land that is not rotating as quickly as that, so begins to move from west to east. Similarly, a mass of air from the north that expands southward will begin to move from east to west. Voila, the clockwise motion of a hurricane.

Interesting. Thanks.
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Old 09-13-2019, 07:48 AM
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Thanks for the answers guys.

So just to wrap my mind around this. Is a guy sitting at the equator spinning around on the planet faster than a guy siting in Alaska?
First, let's ignore all the other ways that we're moving. The earth is moving around the sun, the solar system is moving around the galaxy, and the galaxy is part of an expanding universe. If you take all of that movement into account, then where you're standing on the earth's surface is a pretty minor issue.

But if we forget all of that, and just think about the earth as a closed system, then yes, the person at the equator has a linear speed, "through the air" as it were, that it faster than a person at 45o, who in turn has a liner speed faster than someone near the poles. The angular velocity is the same, because angular velocity is expressed as the number of degrees you move over a period of time (usually expressed in radians per second).

So all (stationary) people in different parts of the world have the same angular velocity, but very different linear speeds.
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Old 09-13-2019, 08:11 AM
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Thanks for the answers guys.

So just to wrap my mind around this. Is a guy sitting at the equator spinning around on the planet faster than a guy siting in Alaska?

Correct, in one 24 hr rotation a point on the equator travels ~1,674 kilometers per hour (1,040 mph) while near the poles is ~0.00008 kph (0.00005 mph).

Last edited by Sparky812; 09-13-2019 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 09-13-2019, 08:13 AM
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If I understand your question properly, the answer is going to depend quite a bit on your latitude. At / near the South Pole, one mile east is going to be quite a few time zones away.
At the South Pole, there is no east.
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Old 09-13-2019, 11:08 AM
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At the South Pole, there is no east.

Sure, at the pole there is no east, west or south, only north... but he did say "near".

Last edited by Sparky812; 09-13-2019 at 11:09 AM.
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Old 09-13-2019, 12:06 PM
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nm

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Old 09-13-2019, 12:13 PM
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The South Pole is on New Zealand time, so you know when to get your breakfast in the cafeteria, and so forth. The sun does not rise and set like you are used to, though.
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Old 09-13-2019, 02:04 PM
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... yes, the person at the equator has a linear speed, "through the air" as it were, that it faster than a person at 45o, who in turn has a liner [sic] speed faster than someone near the poles. The angular velocity is the same, because angular velocity is expressed as the number of degrees you move over a period of time (usually expressed in radians per second).

So all (stationary) people in different parts of the world have the same angular velocity, but very different linear speeds.
... Which is one reason (of several) that NASA launches spacecraft from Florida (angled toward the east) and not from, say, Portland, ME, or Seattle. Every bit of escape velocity helps, and the Earth's rotation is free. (As in "free beer," not "degrees of freedom.")
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Old 09-13-2019, 04:26 PM
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Here's the breakdown in intervals of 10 latitude:

Lat
N/S Solar seconds 1 mile E/W
0 3.469675936 seconds
10 3.52320128 seconds
20 3.692352009 seconds
30 4.006436671 seconds
40 4.529340258 seconds
50 5.397857525 seconds
60 6.939351872 seconds
70 10.14465377 seconds
80 19.98106737 seconds
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Old 09-14-2019, 12:07 AM
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Here's the breakdown in intervals of 10 latitude:

Lat
N/S Solar seconds 1 mile E/W
0 3.469675936 seconds
10 3.52320128 seconds
20 3.692352009 seconds
30 4.006436671 seconds
40 4.529340258 seconds
50 5.397857525 seconds
60 6.939351872 seconds
70 10.14465377 seconds
80 19.98106737 seconds
That is an awful lot of digits of precision there
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Old 09-14-2019, 10:08 AM
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That is an awful lot of digits of precision there
The model geoid used by the United States National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency only has eight digits for the semi-major axis and thirteen digits for the semi-minor axis.
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Old 09-14-2019, 11:15 AM
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The model geoid used by the United States National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency only has eight digits for the semi-major axis and thirteen digits for the semi-minor axis.
The rotation of the Earth, and therefore mean solar time, is nowhere near that regular, anyway.
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Old 09-14-2019, 11:22 AM
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... Voila, the clockwise motion of a hurricane.
No, in the northern hemisphere, low pressure areas (e.g. hurricanes) rotate counterclockwise. High pressure systems rotate clockwise.

As for the OP: (A) At the equator, the earth rotates about 1520 feet per second. Elsewhere the speed is 1520 FPS times the cosine of the latitude (e.g. at JFK airport, the speed is 1520 * cos(40.64) = 1153 feet per second. (B) Nit Pick: there is no such time as 12pm. You probably mean 12 noon
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Old 09-14-2019, 03:29 PM
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Nit Pick: there is no such time as 12pm. You probably mean 12 noon
Counter Pick: According to the latest US Government Printing Office Style Manual, 12 p.m. is a perfectly cromulent statement of time.

Last edited by ASL v2.0; 09-14-2019 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Update latest manual
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Old 09-14-2019, 10:24 PM
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Counter Pick: According to the latest US Government Printing Office Style Manual, 12 p.m. is a perfectly cromulent statement of time.
This has been discussed in various threads. "12 p.m." may be "cromulent" (??), but when is it? Since nobody really knows for sure- and there is no way the US Government Publications have been consistent on this- it is best to avoid such designations. Having said that, a 12-hour digital clock will switch from "a.m." To "p.m." at the moment of noon, so you will see 12:00 pm when you look at it.
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Old 09-14-2019, 10:40 PM
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"12 p.m." may be "cromulent" (??)
Clearly, you need to embiggen your vocabulary.
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Old 09-14-2019, 10:59 PM
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What time is it, Yogi?

Yogi Berra: You mean now?

What time is it, Eccles?
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Old 09-16-2019, 01:13 PM
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Oh, my, I'm so late to this thread...

1. OP, you're basically solving the problem of longitude.

Well actually, you're solving it backwards, but it takes the same math. There's a whole lot of books about it, I'd suggest reading "Longitude" by Dava Sobel. Nice little book. Was made into a BBC drama starring Jeremy Irons (!). Also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longitude_(book)

The setup: Sailors at sea had always found it pretty easy to find their latitude with a sextant by just measuring the angle between a star (or planet, or even the sun) with the horizon, and your latitude, itself an angle, just pops out directly. Really simple. Notice, latitude just tells you how far north or south you are. But when you're navigating across the ocean, you really want to know your East-West numbers, and for that you need longitude. To solve for longitude, you need to know the exact time, and (yes) your latitude. And you need to measure angles of objects near your East or West horizons, such as morning or evening start (best measured at twilight, when you can still see the horizon).

So the story Longitude is really about the need to solve the problem, and how it was eventually solved mechanically, but a certain John Harrison, who made (for the time) phenomenally precise clocks. They compensated for different temperatures (which affect properties of the metal movements of the clocks), and had a devices that functioned as pendulums that were not affected by wave motion you feel when on board.

So back to my premise: Saying "what time is it, 1 mile east of me" is kind of equivalent to "20 seconds ago, the sun was at its zenith over me, and the time was 12:00. My latitude is X. So now, where is the sun at its zenith?" Answer: One mile to the East of you.

2. You're going faster the closer you are to the equator

As stated previously, yes. This is the reason why, for rocket launches we usually choose a launch site that is as close to the equator as possible! So, Florida, Texas, Guiana. Such flights already start moving in the right direction at a higher speed, so they take a little less fuel to reach orbit.

Last edited by Limmin; 09-16-2019 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 09-16-2019, 01:23 PM
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past 5 minute error corrections...

>> morning or evening STARS not start

>> one mile to the WEST of you (since the sun moves from east to west).

It would be better to rephrase the problem to ask how fast does the sun move per minute at my latitude.
Then, one mile to the East of you it was overhead 20 seconds ago. So if it's noon here now, it's 12:00:20, one mile to the East of you.

Last edited by Limmin; 09-16-2019 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 09-16-2019, 01:24 PM
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Thanks for the answers guys.

So just to wrap my mind around this. Is a guy sitting at the equator spinning around on the planet faster than a guy siting in Alaska?
You obviously never read enough Calvin & Hobbes:

https://www.reddit.com/r/calvinandho...d_around_this/
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Old 09-16-2019, 04:50 PM
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No, in the northern hemisphere, low pressure areas (e.g. hurricanes) rotate counterclockwise. High pressure systems rotate clockwise.

As for the OP: (A) At the equator, the earth rotates about 1520 feet per second. Elsewhere the speed is 1520 FPS times the cosine of the latitude (e.g. at JFK airport, the speed is 1520 * cos(40.64) = 1153 feet per second. (B) Nit Pick: there is no such time as 12pm. You probably mean 12 noon
You are right, thanks for the correction.
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:48 AM
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The South Pole is on New Zealand time, so you know when to get your breakfast in the cafeteria, and so forth. The sun does not rise and set like you are used to, though.
Now THIS is why I like coming here.
I never knew this little factoid.

It made me dig around a bit, and.. Surprise surprise, the North Pole has *NO* time zone.

How... symmetrical
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Old 09-17-2019, 03:42 AM
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The South Pole, actually Amundsen-Scott Base, gets its supplies from NZ. Anyone going to or from the base goes through the same place (Christchurch, NZ). So it makes sense they'd keep the same time. If for some reason they were directly supplied from the US, say Los Angeles, they'd keep the same time as LA.

The North Pole has no base, so there's no reason it has or needs a time zone. Time zones are for the convenience of humans; the natural world doesn't need them.
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Old 09-17-2019, 04:32 AM
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Voila, the clockwise motion of a hurricane.
An earlier poster already corrected this, but to clarify, hurricanes spin counterclockwise in the Northern Hemisphere. They spin clockwise in the Southern Hemisphere.

https://www.scienceabc.com/nature/hu...is-effect.html
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Old 09-17-2019, 08:56 AM
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This has been discussed in various threads. "12 p.m." may be "cromulent" (??), but when is it? Since nobody really knows for sure- and there is no way the US Government Publications have been consistent on this- it is best to avoid such designations. Having said that, a 12-hour digital clock will switch from "a.m." To "p.m." at the moment of noon, so you will see 12:00 pm when you look at it.
I can see the remote possibility of confusion, but it seems to me that a moment's reflection would make it obvious that it's clearer and more logical for exactly 12:00 noon to have the same am/pm designation as 12:01 in the afternoon and 12:00:01 (including seconds) and 12:00:00 and 1 millisecond (all of which are clearly pm).

Does anyone seriously advocate that noon should be "12:00 am"?
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Old 09-17-2019, 09:19 AM
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If you're standing 3 feet from--and facing--the North Pole, east is to your right, so 1 mile east is 422 days in the future.

Or, ask Santa Claus.

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Old 09-17-2019, 09:57 AM
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Does anyone seriously advocate that noon should be "12:00 am"?
According to the summary table on Wikipedia, the U.S. Government Publishing Office before 2008 (when they abruptly reversed themselves) and after some unspecified point (the 1953 guide recommends simply "noon" or "12 m."), and officially in Japan, as well as other miscellaneous users.

Last edited by DPRK; 09-17-2019 at 09:58 AM.
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