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Old 10-15-2019, 09:42 PM
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Tesla Hostility


Just about every other day lately, I see reports of acts of vandalism against Tesla cars, or of "coal-rolling" Teslas, or of what is known as "ICEing," which is just parking conventional cars (pickups usually) at Tesla Superchargers, so that Teslas can't recharge.

What's the story? Why the hostility? There seems to be considerable overlap between the Tesla-haters and the MAGA types, and yet you'd think that Trump fans would be happy to see an American-designed, American-made, by American workers, car dominate this market segment.

I don't get it.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:51 PM
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Sadly climate change and environmentalism have become politicized. At least in the US, I'm not sure about other nations.

A lot of people view people concerned about the environment as limp wristed pansies or pathetic 'others'. Look at all the hate 16 year old Greta Thunberg is getting for being angry we are destroying her future. Attacking Teslas is part of the culture war against the limp wristed multiculturalists in the eyes of the people who do it.

In a lot of ways, its good you don't get it. It shows you're a decent human being and a responsible citizen. You really don't want to be the kind of human being who thinks caring about your children and grandchildren is less important than triggering your political adversaries. Or who thinks attacking teenage girls is acceptable for standing up for their future.
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Old 10-15-2019, 09:58 PM
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You really don't want to be the kind of human being who thinks caring about your children and grandchildren is less important than triggering your political adversaries. Or who thinks attacking teenage girls is acceptable for standing up for their future.
I don't think any of that, of course.

I just think Teslas are pretty cool, and it's nice to see at least one small sector of the American auto industry taking the lead again, after so many years.

You'd think everyone would think the same, wouldn't you? Conservative, liberal, tree-hugger, whatever.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:02 PM
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Hmmm a doctor where I work is a huge Trump supporter, that listens to Rush Limbaugh in his office everyday, he drives a very nice Tesla, not sure political persuasion necessarily has anything to do with it, the OP is light on facts though.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:07 PM
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I don't think any of that, of course.

I just think Teslas are pretty cool, and it's nice to see at least one small sector of the American auto industry taking the lead again, after so many years.

You'd think everyone would think the same, wouldn't you? Conservative, liberal, tree-hugger, whatever.
Yeah, I'm glad Musk brought the EV back. Now there are over a dozen EV cars about there I believe.

Used Nissan Leafs are pretty damn cheap too. You can buy at 2015-2018 Leaf for 10k or so if you shop around. They should pay for themselves in fuel savings alone in 4 years.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:10 PM
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Hmmm a doctor where I work is a huge Trump supporter, that listens to Rush Limbaugh in his office everyday, he drives a very nice Tesla, not sure political persuasion necessarily has anything to do with it, the OP is light on facts though.
It's light on facts because I don't have a lot of facts. That's why I'm posting in IMHO, not General Questions. Just a lot of reports of ICEing, keying and coal-rolling. When the perp is identified (which happens surprisingly often, because apparently Teslas have cameras everywhere), there is sometimes a MAGA hat or bumper sticker or something in evidence, and in other cases I'm just guessing (somewhat unfairly, admittedly) based on appearance that the person is a Trump supporter.

Funny thought occurs to me. If what Wesley Clark says above is correct, and the attacks on Teslas are motivated by anti-environmentalism, hasn't it occurred to any of these morons that at least some Teslas actually run on coal, being electric cars and all?
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:28 PM
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Some of it is certainly class envy. We live in a world where the trolls are in charge. In the 90s, it was the nerds and now it's the trolls, they're terrible people and do terrible things.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:34 PM
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Some of it is certainly class envy.
I think this is part of it too. It wasn't too long ago that there were threads here on SDMB claiming that someone driving a BMW or Mercedes was some sort of personal affront to the poster. "Huh, they think they're better than me....." Odd really.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:41 PM
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Trumpeters are pissed (about most everything), but they are not logical.
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:45 PM
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Trumpeters are pissed (about most everything), but they are not logical.
"You think you're better than me? I'll show you, I'll vandalize your car, thus proving that you are in fact better than me. Wait..."
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Old 10-15-2019, 10:59 PM
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Some of it is certainly class envy. We live in a world where the trolls are in charge. In the 90s, it was the nerds and now it's the trolls, they're terrible people and do terrible things.
Absolutely. I think class envy, hatred, what-have-you is at the root of Trumpism, too.

That said, a Tesla Model 3 doesn't cost any more than a Ford F-150. Less, if you get the typical F-150 with crew cab and four-wheel drive.
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Old 10-15-2019, 11:14 PM
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Not to tangent the thread, but I have also wondered the same thing about Apple haters. I have a friend who is very US patriotic and absolutely despises anything Apple.

I've said the same thing to him - you've got a massive American success story that is a global phenomena and you despise it? You should be proud! I can see saying the product "isn't for me, so I buy Samsung" but the level of vitriol is irrational.

My friend has no explanation either and can't reconcile his hatred for Apple products (and Apple "Fanboys") with his love for America.

I think you can't expect rational thought from irrational people and haters are gonna hate.
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Old 10-16-2019, 01:35 AM
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:10 AM
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I tell people the Tesla is an American muscle car. That is usually met with skepticism, but the only things it's missing are a V8 rumble and smokey donuts.

I think part of it is the "Florida Man" effect. (I have read) that all of the stupid news about Florida Man is because of Florida's laws requiring public mug shots and police blotters. Those are public record everywhere, but in Florida they are available quicker and easier than in other states, so they get trawled for viral content. In the last year or so, Teslas have gone from being the same as most other cars with regards to dashcams, to being mobile surveillance platforms with now four different cameras recording all the time while the car is being driven, and any time it is parked while in sentry mode. It is a simple option to set sentry mode to be on all the time. So, maybe they're not being vandalized more than other high end cars, but there is a high chance that when they are vandalized, there is video.

Obviously the things other people have said about hate of Teslas and electric cars also apply.

And, Musk is a smug ass.
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:29 AM
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It's light on facts because I don't have a lot of facts. That's why I'm posting in IMHO, not General Questions. Just a lot of reports of ICEing, keying and coal-rolling. When the perp is identified (which happens surprisingly often, because apparently Teslas have cameras everywhere), there is sometimes a MAGA hat or bumper sticker or something in evidence, and in other cases I'm just guessing (somewhat unfairly, admittedly) based on appearance that the person is a Trump supporter.

Funny thought occurs to me. If what Wesley Clark says above is correct, and the attacks on Teslas are motivated by anti-environmentalism, hasn't it occurred to any of these morons that at least some Teslas actually run on coal, being electric cars and all?
Where are you located? I live not far from the Tesla plant, there are tons of Teslas around here, and I've never heard of this. But I can think of places where I totally see it happening.
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Old 10-16-2019, 02:33 AM
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Not to tangent the thread, but I have also wondered the same thing about Apple haters. I have a friend who is very US patriotic and absolutely despises anything Apple.

I've said the same thing to him - you've got a massive American success story that is a global phenomena and you despise it? You should be proud! I can see saying the product "isn't for me, so I buy Samsung" but the level of vitriol is irrational.

My friend has no explanation either and can't reconcile his hatred for Apple products (and Apple "Fanboys") with his love for America.

I think you can't expect rational thought from irrational people and haters are gonna hate.
I despise Apple, because it is overpriced and seems to live on blind devotion. Especially now that Jobs is gone. When they came out with larger iPhones, my boss proudly held up the cardboard cutout Apple gave him. I held up my real Samsung phone of the same size.
Apple manufactures in China and parks its profits in Ireland. Apple has no relation to patriotism. ARM is a British company, by the way.
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:00 AM
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Some of it may be back splash from the holier than thou attitude that many prius drivers are commonly reported to have (which I've never encountered) and the style of driving that some prius drivers employ trying to get every last possible linear inch out of a charge, starting slow, driving slow, decelerating lòooong before you have to. This I havr encountered. Asshole gave me the finger as I went around him the first chance I could and I imagine that finger got a good workout during that morning rush hour. So yeah, ev drivers have a bad rep thanks to rumors and bad driving practices during the busiest times of day for traffic
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:17 AM
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I have no idea what planet the people in this topic are living on but ANYTIME I see anti-Tesla stuff anywhere on the news or on the internet it's always from left-wing people who just hate Elon Musk and his massive wealth and see him as a modern day robber baron. It's like saying the only people who hate on Uber are Republicans angry it's reducing pollution by taking cars off the road.
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:44 AM
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I have no idea what planet the people in this topic are living on but ANYTIME I see anti-Tesla stuff anywhere on the news or on the internet it's always from left-wing people who just hate Elon Musk and his massive wealth and see him as a modern day robber baron. It's like saying the only people who hate on Uber are Republicans angry it's reducing pollution by taking cars off the road.
Google is your friend, there are lots of stories about this. Here’s literally the first result I found. https://www.businessinsider.com/truc...otests-2018-12
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Old 10-16-2019, 04:20 AM
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In the last year or so, Teslas have gone from being the same as most other cars with regards to dashcams, to being mobile surveillance platforms with now four different cameras recording all the time while the car is being driven, and any time it is parked while in sentry mode. It is a simple option to set sentry mode to be on all the time. So, maybe they're not being vandalized more than other high end cars, but there is a high chance that when they are vandalized, there is video.
While I know there is plenty of Tesla hate, I think this is a big factor. There have been several instances recently of Teslas being keyed. Now, clearly, cars getting keyed is not a brand new thing. But it is new to have 360 degree video coverage of the event, with high enough video quality to make out faces and licence plates.

And of course local news loves this kind of stuff. It's a surprise to most people that Teslas are capable of this kind of thing, and just about everyone hates a car vandal. So the story gets a 3-minute bit in the local news and everyone knows about it. I'm sure thousands of other cars get keyed every day, but without a video no one cares.

Three stories just from keyings alone:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/30434/...dalize-model-3
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/ne...a-Model-3.html
https://digg.com/video/tesla-vandals...in-sentry-mode
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Old 10-16-2019, 06:01 AM
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Seems perfectly reasonable to vandalize any car better than mine.
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Old 10-16-2019, 07:50 AM
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I have no idea what planet the people in this topic are living on but ANYTIME I see anti-Tesla stuff anywhere on the news or on the internet it's always from left-wing people who just hate Elon Musk and his massive wealth and see him as a modern day robber baron.
This. Pretty sure it's a class-related thing. The Model S was the first Tesla to really make it big, and it was known to be an expensive and unique car. Expensive+unique = "that asshole thinks he's better than me, and ima take him down a notch."
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Old 10-16-2019, 07:56 AM
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Where are you located? I live not far from the Tesla plant, there are tons of Teslas around here, and I've never heard of this. But I can think of places where I totally see it happening.
I'm in New York City. It's not happening here (at least not that I know about).

There aren't that many Teslas around here, I think mainly because if you want a Tesla, you have to have a place to charge it, which means you have to have a parking space with an electrical hookup. That is definitely not the norm in NYC, although I think we'll see more and more parking garages offering charging facilities (which will mean that in NYC, Teslas will be available only to the affluent, because garage parking runs close to $500 per month here).

I'm seeing this in various news reports. Mostly from what you'd call Trump country. Admittedly, I may be being unfair in assuming all or most of the Tesla vandalizers are Trump supporters, but that's the impression I get.
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Old 10-16-2019, 07:58 AM
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I have no idea what planet the people in this topic are living on but ANYTIME I see anti-Tesla stuff anywhere on the news or on the internet it's always from left-wing people who just hate Elon Musk and his massive wealth and see him as a modern day robber baron. It's like saying the only people who hate on Uber are Republicans angry it's reducing pollution by taking cars off the road.
I'm on the same planet you're on.

I've described the reports of Tesla vandalism that I've seen.

As to left-wingers hating Musk, I have no idea. I'm about as left-wing as you can get. While Musk seems to be a bit of a jerk personally, I really like what he's doing with Tesla, and I admire anyone who can get something like that off the ground and turn it into reality.

Uber is another story. I do hate Uber.
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Old 10-16-2019, 08:01 AM
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This. Pretty sure it's a class-related thing. The Model S was the first Tesla to really make it big, and it was known to be an expensive and unique car. Expensive+unique = "that asshole thinks he's better than me, and ima take him down a notch."
Oh, I agree 100% that it's a class thing. I just don't think it's a left-wing class thing.
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Old 10-16-2019, 08:43 AM
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Yeah, I'm glad Musk brought the EV back. Now there are over a dozen EV cars about there I believe.

Used Nissan Leafs are pretty damn cheap too. You can buy at 2015-2018 Leaf for 10k or so if you shop around. They should pay for themselves in fuel savings alone in 4 years.
[Emphasis mine]

How does this work?
$10,000 will buy roughly 4,500 gallons of unleaded at $2.20/gallon. Assuming an ICE powered vehicle the size of a Leaf would get around 25 miles/gallon (probably closer to 30), that's over 100,000 miles, or over 25,000 miles per year, about twice what the average driver puts on their car. That turns 4-years into 8-years, and also conveniently ignores the fact that the electricity to power the Leaf isn't free.

I'd also like to see a 2017-2018 Leaf that hasn't been wrecked sell for less than $15,000. You might find some older, higher mileage ones for less than $10,000, but to expect those to last the 8 years (or more) you'd need to see to get them to "pay for themselves in fuel savings alone..." is also a bit optimistic. I'm not saying that the leaf wouldn't be fuel efficient, but it wouldn't pay for itself.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:16 AM
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I'm in New York City. It's not happening here (at least not that I know about).
I see dozens of Teslas every day around Boston, and there's no vandalism making the news around here. There's also essentially no coal rolling in the area either, or ICEing. Either one of those would get attention quickly. Perhaps it's more regional.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:26 AM
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Sadly climate change and environmentalism have become politicized. At least in the US, I'm not sure about other nations.
In a lot of Europe, the kind of stuff that 20 years ago only the "radical fringe" Greens cared about has now become mainstream. Much of it is not even considered politics any more: those questions which back then were "is this thing a real problem?" have morphed into "what is the best way to solve it?" and become a daily-life thing for much of the population including lots of people whose general opinion on politics is "I don't give a shit, they're all thieves anyway".
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:30 AM
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I'm on the same planet you're on.

I've described the reports of Tesla vandalism that I've seen.

As to left-wingers hating Musk, I have no idea. I'm about as left-wing as you can get. While Musk seems to be a bit of a jerk personally, I really like what he's doing with Tesla, and I admire anyone who can get something like that off the ground and turn it into reality.

Uber is another story. I do hate Uber.
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Oh, I agree 100% that it's a class thing. I just don't think it's a left-wing class thing.
You're almost certainly not "as left-wing as you can get" if you're not familiar with this. The people who are super against Tesla are typically literal anarcho-communists (or similar).

Elon Musk is basically a literal spy movie evil genius at this point. It's not just the wealth, per se, but the exploitation of labor (e.g.), near slave-labor conditions for some lower level workers (which Amazon does too), and a bunch of other smaller baffling-but-super-shitty things like this (among many others). If you've seen "Sorry To Bother You" his reputation and practices are getting seen to be on the road towards the corporation at the center of that film (though Amazon is by far the bigger culprit here).

... all that said I don't really see what doing all this accomplishes other than a small sense of trolly self-satisfaction, maybe making people slightly less likely to buy one. It's a statement more than anything, really. Possibly some sliver of hope that a journalist or people like me writing about the reasons for this might raise some awareness about Musk and Tesla's dodgy practices and spur more widespread dislike of and resistance towards them.

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Old 10-16-2019, 09:45 AM
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[Emphasis mine]

How does this work?
$10,000 will buy roughly 4,500 gallons of unleaded at $2.20/gallon. Assuming an ICE powered vehicle the size of a Leaf would get around 25 miles/gallon (probably closer to 30), that's over 100,000 miles, or over 25,000 miles per year, about twice what the average driver puts on their car. That turns 4-years into 8-years, and also conveniently ignores the fact that the electricity to power the Leaf isn't free.
Not at all free. For the stated range and battery capacity, assuming you get electricity for 14 cents per kW-hr, the Leaf costs 3.9 cents per mile for electricity. 100,000 miles? $3925.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:51 AM
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Quoth excavating (for a mind):

How does this work?
$10,000 will buy roughly 4,500 gallons of unleaded at $2.20/gallon.
...
But $10,000 isn't the right number to look at. When you're considering buying a Leaf, you're also considering other car options, and those all cost money, too. If a comparable used gas-burning car costs, say, $6000, then the amount you're paying extra to get the electric car is only $4000. And yes, you're still paying for the electricity, but in most places energy is cheaper in the form of electricity than in the form of gasoline, and electric cars are inherently more efficient (because you're not running a heat engine in the car, and you can take advantage of things like regenerative braking), so you're not paying very much for the electricity.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:16 AM
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But $10,000 isn't the right number to look at.
And $2.20/gal isn’t right for me either. Think $4+.

When I bought my Bolt, between the dealer price reduction, GM cash back, and the Federal, State and power company incentives, the car was not more than anything else I was considering. Icing on the cake is that my solar panels produce more electricity than we use. It’s more cost effective to use that electricity in the car than take the minimal end of year payout for the credits.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:26 AM
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I despise Apple, because it is overpriced and seems to live on blind devotion.
And having to wait 2+ hours to get a device looked at or making an appointment for weeks away is the main reason I'd never own an iPhone. I felt awful for my daughter when she had to go a week or two without an iPhone because hers wasn't working. Personally, I don't think that's acceptable for an adult, especially when they don't have a landline.

Oh, and having to shell out way, way, way too much money for a charger after you buy a generic one and they won't let you use it.


PS regarding the long wait to get the phone looked at, someone once said 'what else are you gonna do...what do you do when your android isn't working'. They didn't seem to understand that I can go to the Verizon store, be seen within 5 minutes and walk out with a fixed or replaced phone. And, if the store is too crowded, I can just go to another Verizon store a few miles away. They're all over the place. When my kid's iPhone was broken and the Apple store had a 2+ hour wait, my other option was to take my chances at the next closest store, about 45 minutes away.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:41 AM
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[Emphasis mine]

How does this work?
$10,000 will buy roughly 4,500 gallons of unleaded at $2.20/gallon. Assuming an ICE powered vehicle the size of a Leaf would get around 25 miles/gallon (probably closer to 30), that's over 100,000 miles, or over 25,000 miles per year, about twice what the average driver puts on their car. That turns 4-years into 8-years, and also conveniently ignores the fact that the electricity to power the Leaf isn't free.

I'd also like to see a 2017-2018 Leaf that hasn't been wrecked sell for less than $15,000. You might find some older, higher mileage ones for less than $10,000, but to expect those to last the 8 years (or more) you'd need to see to get them to "pay for themselves in fuel savings alone..." is also a bit optimistic. I'm not saying that the leaf wouldn't be fuel efficient, but it wouldn't pay for itself.
You're right, my math isn't correct. I was thinking of California gas prices since Tesla is a California company (which should be unrelated).

If gas is $2.60 a gallon and the energy equivalent of a gallon of gasoline in electricity is $0.75 then it'll take 5400 gallons of gas to make up the price difference. That's closer to 135k miles and more than 4 years with the 12-18k miles people drive per year.
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:05 AM
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Few buckets of Tesla hate here, some justified:

1. Teslas are seen as luxury vehicles with luxury pricetags (conspicuous consumption), and are targeted accordingly.

2. Teslas are perceived as being driven by smug, holier-than-thou, leftie environmental types.

3. "Tesla fans" often have major superiority complexes, and rabidly attack any perceived criticism of vehicle performance, manufacturing quality, or prophet Elon Musk, and there is a predicable counter-reaction to that.

4. Tesla, and EV's in general are new and different, and people are scared of new and different. And the media especially likes to cover failures of anything new and different, hence why a single Tesla vehicle fire will make national news.

5. Tesla's CEO is someone that is impulsive, eccentric, and self-promoting, and tends to make promises that are not delivered upon or are years late.

6. Tesla, as a company, seems to have some shady accounting practices, lots of employee burnout, and its stock price is crazy overvalued relative to its actual production.

7. Teslas benefit from government subsidies, even though they are essentially luxury vehicles.
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:26 AM
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But $10,000 isn't the right number to look at. When you're considering buying a Leaf, you're also considering other car options, and those all cost money, too. If a comparable used gas-burning car costs, say, $6000, then the amount you're paying extra to get the electric car is only $4000. And yes, you're still paying for the electricity, but in most places energy is cheaper in the form of electricity than in the form of gasoline, and electric cars are inherently more efficient (because you're not running a heat engine in the car, and you can take advantage of things like regenerative braking), so you're not paying very much for the electricity.
Depreciation on non-Tesla EVs is very large. For example, a search comparing the Fiat 500e and non-e versions shows that 2016 500e with 20-30k miles is $9-12k, with similar mileage non-e (non-Abarth) cars starting at about $13k. If your daily needs are within the abilities of a Leaf, 500e, etc., then a used one can be cheaper to buy and cheaper to operate than a comparable ICE car. I chose the 500e, because it has a direct model comparison to an ICE car. You can compare a Leaf and Versa, or Bolt and Cruze, but in both cases the EV models are higher end cars, with amenities not found in the similar lower end cars.

As for real world, in one year of a owning a Model 3 I've saved about $900 in gas for 11,000 miles of use compared to the car the Model 3 replaced. That ain't nothin', but yeah, it's not going to makeup the difference between the Model 3 and a base model Camry. I suspect most people aren't cross shopping a base Camry and a Model 3, though. My net purchase price for the Model 3 is very similar, if not cheaper, than comparable BMW, Audi, and other entry level luxury cars.
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:47 AM
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I have never seen any of that happen and the only people I know that own Tesla's are Conservative CEO types. I'm going to guess a good portion of this is ahole jealously.
  #38  
Old 10-16-2019, 01:37 PM
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Just about every other day lately, I see reports of acts of vandalism against Tesla cars, or of "coal-rolling" Teslas, or of what is known as "ICEing," which is just parking conventional cars (pickups usually) at Tesla Superchargers, so that Teslas can't recharge.
Where is it that you're seeing these reports?

I think this has more to do with your news source than much else. America is a big country, so it's not that hard to find individual cases where people are being dicks of all sorts. But it seems more likely that you're tuned into Tesla-specific (perhaps Tesla-as-target-of-persecution-specific) news than that this is really meaningful trend.

On the Leaf front, Carmax has multiple 2015 Leafs with ~50k miles on them for sale around $11k. Carmax charges pretty high prices for used vehicles, so it should be fairly easy to get one from a private seller in similar condition for under $10k. If you're considering a Leaf vs a gasoline-driven car, then the difference in price is going to be a lot less than that. Maybe just $3-4k.

Where I live gas costs $4+, so if the electricity costs $0.75 for a gallon equivalent, then we're looking at (ballpark) 1000 gallons of gas to make up the difference, which is 3-4 years of costs.

So as a general claim, if you pay $4+/gallon for gas, then replacing a $7k used gasoline car with a $10k used Leaf should break even in 4ish years.
  #39  
Old 10-16-2019, 02:17 PM
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But $10,000 isn't the right number to look at. When you're considering buying a Leaf, you're also considering other car options, and those all cost money, too. If a comparable used gas-burning car costs, say, $6000, then the amount you're paying extra to get the electric car is only $4000. And yes, you're still paying for the electricity, but in most places energy is cheaper in the form of electricity than in the form of gasoline, and electric cars are inherently more efficient (because you're not running a heat engine in the car, and you can take advantage of things like regenerative braking), so you're not paying very much for the electricity.
That's a nice analysis, but you incorrect. The right number to look at IS $10,000.
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... They should pay for themselves in fuel savings alone in 4 years.
Wesley did not claim that they would cover the marginal cost over a comparably sized gas-burning car. The claim was that they should pay for themselves in fuel savings alone in 4 years. That is a rather extraordinary claim. Not only is the purchase price unrealistic for a car less than 3 years old in good condition, but $10,000 will buy a lot of fuel.

As electric cars get older, the reliability of the batteries starts being an issue; perhaps this is why at around the 5 year mark, their cost drops. Loss of battery capacity means even shorter range, and at that point
  #40  
Old 10-16-2019, 02:25 PM
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Back in 1974 or so there were definitely people who considered buying Japanese cars, which had become popular after the oil crisis, as unpatriotic. I remember some being banned from parking lots. Maybe this was similar.
It was easier to wave a flag than to admit that American cars then were crap. I know - I owned a Pinto.
  #41  
Old 10-16-2019, 02:33 PM
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the type of person who would ICE a supercharger or roll coal (i.e. someone in his early-to-mid-20s who probably has a bicep or calf tat, thinks being a "real American man" means flying a confederate flag and watching UFC, and is probably named "Cody") sees anything from that side as a threat to his Real American Masculinity and has to piss all over it.
  #42  
Old 10-16-2019, 03:44 PM
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I didn't know this vandalism was a thing. Of course, here in Seattle's east side (Bellevue, Redmond, etc.) Teslas are a dime a dozen. Which makes sense, it's a combination of lots of single family homes with easy home charging and lots and lots of tech wealth.
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Old 10-16-2019, 03:48 PM
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Back in 1974 or so there were definitely people who considered buying Japanese cars, which had become popular after the oil crisis, as unpatriotic. I remember some being banned from parking lots.
They still are banned from some parking lots.
  #44  
Old 10-16-2019, 03:49 PM
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6. Tesla, as a company, seems to have some shady accounting practices, lots of employee burnout, and its stock price is crazy overvalued relative to its actual production.
Related to that overvalued stock price, there's a group of Tesla-shorters, people who've made a bet that the company won't survive. They are probably the main force behind the smear campaign against Tesla. For example: a single Tesla catches fire in Peking and they blow it up to front page news. At the same time, one of the other car manufacturers was recalling a model of SUVs or vans (I forget which) where dozens had caught fire. That story, if covered at all, was a filler on page 12.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iamthewalrus(:3= View Post
Where is it that you're seeing these reports?

I think this has more to do with your news source than much else. America is a big country, so it's not that hard to find individual cases where people are being dicks of all sorts. But it seems more likely that you're tuned into Tesla-specific (perhaps Tesla-as-target-of-persecution-specific) news than that this is really meaningful trend.
I see this kind of reporting a fair amount on cleantechnica.com and Electrek. Especially the former, but I swear those guys at Cleantech would be giving their Teslas daily blowjobs, except the cars don't have tailpipes.

But as far as coal-rolling goes, those Tesla stories all sound like complaints of special snowflakes, at least to this bicyclist. I bicycle all over the place and routinely get coal-rolled on every ride, except for some short ones to run errands. Depending on where I go, it could be as many as half of the pickups that do it. OK, very few are diesel pickups, but it's the thought that counts. It's been that way for about three years, which should not be a surprise to anyone. It's become the new normal.

Last edited by dtilque; 10-16-2019 at 03:50 PM.
  #45  
Old 10-16-2019, 05:06 PM
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Google is your friend, there are lots of stories about this. Here’s literally the first result I found. https://www.businessinsider.com/truc...otests-2018-12
The problem is that when you google you only get the same three incidents repeated over and over again, and besides the fact in one incident one of the dudes had a "Merica" shirt and another it's a bunch of pick-ups trucks you can't really guess the core intentions.

If there was a massive uprising of MAGA supporters against Tesla you'd see it on social media but if you look at the Tesla or related twitters the only negative posts seem to be left wing people attacking Tesla for a variety of reasons.

I find it hard to believe that Trump supporters attacking Tesla's isn't a story every single news media outlet wouldn't be screaming from the roofs if it was an actual thing, but looking up "Why do people hate Tesla" on google has a million people offering a million different opinions.
  #46  
Old 10-16-2019, 05:29 PM
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Holy crap! That's infuriating!

How are they even defining "foreign vehicle"? Lots of Fords are made overseas, and Toyotas are made in Tennessee. Is it actually "cars with foreign sounding names" or "cars not made by GM or Ford" which are banned?
  #47  
Old 10-16-2019, 05:38 PM
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Holy crap! That's infuriating!

How are they even defining "foreign vehicle"? Lots of Fords are made overseas, and Toyotas are made in Tennessee. Is it actually "cars with foreign sounding names" or "cars not made by GM or Ford" which are banned?
“No vehicles made by a company whose employees are not represented by a union.” Don’t see why that would be “infuriating” to you.
  #48  
Old 10-16-2019, 05:48 PM
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I think the coal rolling stuff kind of speaks for itself, but as far as I know that happens more to Prius drivers. I have a mild antipathy towards Tesla because Tesla fanboys are annoying, and Elon Musk overpromises way too often, but I think Tesla is making a fantastic product in general.
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  #49  
Old 10-16-2019, 06:14 PM
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“No vehicles made by a company whose employees are not represented by a union.” Don’t see why that would be “infuriating” to you.
But that isn't foreign cars. The current Tesla plant has a UAW office across the street. It used to be the NUMMI plant - Toyota and GM - until GM pulled out. It was unionized.

No obnoxious signs in the parking lot of the UAW office. (I used to drive by on the way to work.)
  #50  
Old 10-16-2019, 08:22 PM
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But that isn't foreign cars. The current Tesla plant has a UAW office across the street.
So? Tesla employees are not UAW-represented.

Quote:
No obnoxious signs in the parking lot of the UAW office. (I used to drive by on the way to work.)
as far as I know, the locals have the freedom to do this if they want. They're not going to do something like that if they want to try to organize Tesla employees. and it's not universal; I work for one of the "Detroit" car companies, and the majority of facilities I go to have no such restrictions.
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