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Old 11-15-2019, 11:59 AM
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Roger Stone Guilty on All Counts


Not much else I can add.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/15/polit...ict/index.html

Last edited by skdo23; 11-15-2019 at 12:03 PM.
  #2  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:06 PM
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Good
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  #3  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:19 PM
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Recently-convicted Trump associates (all coming out of Mueller investigation, I think):

- Paul Manafort
- Michael Flynn
- Rick Gates
- George Papadopoulos
- Michael Cohen
- Roger Stone

Last edited by Walken After Midnight; 11-15-2019 at 12:20 PM.
  #4  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:25 PM
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"Get Me Roger Stone" is a fascinate documentary.
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Old 11-15-2019, 12:29 PM
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Think he gets a pardon? Trump has been surprisingly stingy with the pardons. What does he have to lose, especially at this point?
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Old 11-15-2019, 12:35 PM
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"Get Me Roger Stone" is a fascinate documentary.
It was. That's why this conviction gives me such a deep sense of satisfaction.

May he rot.
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Old 11-15-2019, 12:37 PM
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Trump has been surprisingly stingy with the pardons.
*nitpick. It's reported that Trump is about to pardon some war criminals.

Washington Post, via Stars and Stripes:
Quote:
President Donald Trump is expected to intervene in three military justice cases involving service members charged with war crimes any day, issuing pardons or otherwise clearing them of wrongdoing and preventing the U.S. military from bringing the same charges again, three U.S. officials said Thursday.
  #8  
Old 11-15-2019, 12:49 PM
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Shimon Prokupecz, journalist:
Quote:
Stone under a gag order can’t say anything leaving court. [video]
That would probably have hurt Stone more than anything.
  #9  
Old 11-15-2019, 01:07 PM
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I'm sure he'll look smashing in orange.
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Old 11-15-2019, 01:14 PM
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Good
Concur.
  #11  
Old 11-15-2019, 01:16 PM
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When's the sentencing date?
  #12  
Old 11-15-2019, 01:22 PM
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It's Feb 6. The prosecution wanted him in custody immediately, since he keeps breaking the conditions of his bond. Yesterday he was in touch with Alex Jones (AKA "a reporter", which is verboten).
  #13  
Old 11-15-2019, 01:27 PM
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When's the sentencing date?
After cert is denied and shortly before the pardon is granted.
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Old 11-15-2019, 02:05 PM
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Think he gets a pardon? Trump has been surprisingly stingy with the pardons. What does he have to lose, especially at this point?
That's not how Trump thinks. He's asking what does he have to gain from pardoning somebody.
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Old 11-15-2019, 02:11 PM
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A short message to Roger Stone, his lawyers, and friends:

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck yoooooooooou!

And oh yeah, maybe you can reunite with Individual Number One in early 2021.
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Old 11-15-2019, 02:18 PM
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After cert is denied and shortly before the pardon is granted.
Pardon Roger who?... Never heard of him... he was only involved with the campaign long enough for a coffee and donut. I heard he took a box of donuts before he left. Very dishonest guy. People say he voted for Hillary.
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Old 11-15-2019, 02:37 PM
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After cert is denied and shortly before the pardon is granted.
If Stone's pardoned, he can be compelled to testify.

Trump might still be dumb enough to do it.
  #18  
Old 11-15-2019, 03:04 PM
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So either way Stone is bound for a long prison stretch - either on these charges or on Contempt charges when he refuses to testify.
  #19  
Old 11-15-2019, 03:29 PM
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Recently-convicted Trump associates (all coming out of Mueller investigation, I think):

- Paul Manafort
- Michael Flynn
- Rick Gates
- George Papadopoulos
- Michael Cohen
- Roger Stone
Most successful witch hunt in the history of witch hunts. All these witches found to be witches by an actual impartial jury.

I thought that witch hunt was supposed to be a situation where you try to pin bad things on innocent (non-witch) people, and yet here we are. Maybe the term witch hunt should be retired by the president's supporters (and the president himself) at this point?
  #20  
Old 11-15-2019, 03:43 PM
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I think Esquire said it best:
https://www.esquire.com/news-politic...5rHR8QS75xDhTQ
  #21  
Old 11-15-2019, 03:54 PM
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Better yet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwz4k4n1ezM
  #22  
Old 11-15-2019, 03:54 PM
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If Stone's pardoned, he can be compelled to testify.

Trump might still be dumb enough to do it.
Can he be compelled to tell the truth?
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Old 11-15-2019, 04:12 PM
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Sorry, double post. Mods, could you please remove it, thx.
It was so nice, I read it twice.
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Old 11-15-2019, 04:13 PM
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Hilarious, but I just have to point out -- there are rats in prison.
  #25  
Old 11-15-2019, 04:21 PM
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Perfect time to make an example of someone for lying to Congress.
  #26  
Old 11-15-2019, 04:32 PM
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At the time, I thought Cop Rock was a terrible idea. I now think it was just too far ahead of its time. Also, to stay on topic; Eat shit, Roger!
  #27  
Old 11-15-2019, 04:39 PM
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That's not how Trump thinks. He's asking what does he have to gain from pardoning somebody.
And after all, you know, he hardly knew the guy.
  #28  
Old 11-15-2019, 05:45 PM
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I have yet to be convinced that we have seen the last of these fuckers. We really do need to grow a spine and start using the word "treason" more often.
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Old 11-15-2019, 05:48 PM
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Most successful witch hunt in the history of witch hunts. All these witches found to be witches by an actual impartial jury.

I thought that witch hunt was supposed to be a situation where you try to pin bad things on innocent (non-witch) people, and yet here we are. Maybe the term witch hunt should be retired by the president's supporters (and the president himself) at this point?
I’m not around Trump supporters very often but when I am and they talk about it being a witch hunt I say, “It must be a witch hunt because they sure caught a lot of witches.”

Last edited by Mike Mabes; 11-15-2019 at 05:49 PM.
  #30  
Old 11-15-2019, 07:05 PM
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On a day when I badly need to hear something resembling a bright spot of good news, this will do.
  #31  
Old 11-15-2019, 07:14 PM
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If Stone's pardoned, he can be compelled to testify.

Trump might still be dumb enough to do it.
I think about this a lot. Trump pardons someone, which means he's compelled to testify. But he could testify and just lie his ass off. Then he's in jeopardy again for lying under oath. Could he get pardoned yet again for that?

I don't know the answer to that question. But anyone considering lying to cover Trump's ass must now be calculating that with an election in November, the window of opportunity for pardoning is getting smaller and smaller with each passing day.
  #32  
Old 11-15-2019, 08:36 PM
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*nitpick. It's reported that Trump is about to pardon some war criminals.

Washington Post, via Stars and Stripes:
No longer "about to". He pardoned them.
  #33  
Old 11-15-2019, 09:16 PM
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The advantage to Trump in pardoning all those who lied for him is as a signal to other potential witnesses that he has their back. Failing that, they might decided they have to tell the truth.
  #34  
Old 11-15-2019, 10:38 PM
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It was asked above about the timing of pardons. I guess this could be its own thread, but don't presidents pardon on the last day of their terms to avoid political consequences? Could a seemingly improper pardon be an article of impeachment?
  #35  
Old 11-16-2019, 12:21 AM
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If Stone's pardoned, he can be compelled to testify.
Why would the pardon change anything on that front? To the extent that these matters gave him a legitimate reason to use his Fifth Amendment rights, didn't that end today, or at least won't it in February when he's sentenced?

Last edited by Lord Feldon; 11-16-2019 at 12:24 AM.
  #36  
Old 11-16-2019, 12:37 AM
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I wonder if Stone will be going to a place with lax-enough rules and security where he'll still be able to wear his costumes that he likes to dress up in so so much? I think taking *that* ability away from him would be what really breaks the man.
  #37  
Old 11-16-2019, 12:53 AM
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I think about this a lot. Trump pardons someone, which means he's compelled to testify. But he could testify and just lie his ass off. Then he's in jeopardy again for lying under oath. Could he get pardoned yet again for that?....
Yes. The President's pardon power for federal offenses is almost unlimited: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federa..._United_States.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Personal View Post
It was asked above about the timing of pardons. I guess this could be its own thread, but don't presidents pardon on the last day of their terms to avoid political consequences? Could a seemingly improper pardon be an article of impeachment?
Some Presidents have issued lots of pardons towards the end of the terms, most notoriously Bill Clinton in early 2001, but there's no legal reason it has to be done then. No President has ever been impeached for "a seemingly improper pardon," but we're in uncharted political waters in many ways, and these days I would never say never.
  #38  
Old 11-16-2019, 01:10 AM
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That's not how Trump thinks. He's asking what does he have to gain from pardoning somebody.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hari Seldon View Post
The advantage to Trump in pardoning all those who lied for him is as a signal to other potential witnesses that he has their back. Failing that, they might decided they have to tell the truth.
Agree with Hari. Communicating: "with pardons, I got your back " doesn't need to come from a place of kindness, it can also come from strict self-interest. It will make people less nervous about working with him now, even if it doesn't completely extinguish the legal risks of associating with him. It's a crooked use of power for self-interest, just that should appeal to Trump.

Someone can also explain to me how being pardoned means they're easier to compel to testify. Maybe I just don't know that point of law.

Last edited by MichaelEmouse; 11-16-2019 at 01:12 AM.
  #39  
Old 11-16-2019, 01:40 AM
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Someone can also explain to me how being pardoned means they're easier to compel to testify. Maybe I just don't know that point of law.
If you're pardoned for XYZ act, then you are no longer in jeopardy of being punished for that act. So the Fifth Amendment protection against self-incrimination does not apply.

A pardoned person who does not want to be compelled to testify can reject the pardon. But then they're still guilty of the crime.
  #40  
Old 11-16-2019, 02:13 AM
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Why expect a presidential pardon? A reward for silence, for successful tampering and obstruction.

Why not expect a pardon? He's not worth it; the pardoner-in-chief has greater worries.

I don't think this POTUS fears current or former minions that much, especially if they're careful with document shredding. He's been most manic about his financial information, which will show who owns him. Minions can testify he's a crook. Docs will reveal treason.

Pardoning Stone, or not, won't gain much benefit. Might as well toss him under the bus too.
  #41  
Old 11-16-2019, 08:35 AM
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Let’s note that Stone is going to jail for lying about his coordination between Trump’s campaign and Russia, via Wikileaks, and then interfering with Mueller’s investigation.

Remember that the next time the ridiculous talking point that there was “no collusion, no obstruction” gets dragged out by Trump’s apologizers.
  #42  
Old 11-16-2019, 08:42 AM
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Let’s note that Stone is going to jail for lying about his coordination between Trump’s campaign and Russia, via Wikileaks, and then interfering with Mueller’s investigation.

Remember that the next time the ridiculous talking point that there was “no collusion, no obstruction” gets dragged out by Trump’s apologizers.
The problem with that line of thought is that the alt right don't see Stone as a criminal. He's a victim of blind, unreasoning, corrupt hatred from the left of Trump and all that is good and holy about 'Merica. He's a martyr, his conviction is a manufactured fraud and it does nothing but prove that anyone who isn't in unquestioning, lockstep agreement with the alt right narrative is a traitor to be attacked.
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  #43  
Old 11-16-2019, 09:31 AM
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Why would the pardon change anything on that front? To the extent that these matters gave him a legitimate reason to use his Fifth Amendment rights, didn't that end today, or at least won't it in February when he's sentenced?
The idea is, he'd get a general pardon, so he'd be able to be compelled to testify about things he hasn't been tried for because we didn't know they happened, or couldn't prosecute them without his testimony.
  #44  
Old 11-16-2019, 09:33 AM
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Why would the pardon change anything on that front? To the extent that these matters gave him a legitimate reason to use his Fifth Amendment rights, didn't that end today, or at least won't it in February when he's sentenced?
He’d have 5th amendment rights until the appeal is over. That could take a few years.
  #45  
Old 11-16-2019, 03:35 PM
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He’d have 5th amendment rights until the appeal is over. That could take a few years.
Failure to testify to a grand jury usually gets one locked up till their term expires. And then another grand jury can be called, with more cell time for the refusenik. Will the Nixon tattoo survive his jail time?
  #46  
Old 11-16-2019, 11:20 PM
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Roger Stone still might not manage to get off scott free though, although I’m not sure how reliable this source is:
https://politicaltribune.org/it-appe...0aI6ssDCmfTS2U
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