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Old 12-02-2019, 08:25 AM
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Snoopy's great!


...certainly one of the most wonderful comic strip characters ever created.

But I would have enjoyed Peanuts every bit as much without him. Maybe more.
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:26 AM
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Oh no! You'd have missed "Whirly Dog". And "ol 'dime-a-dozen' ". And how could you hate Freida's cat without having Snoopy for it to play off?

CB needs someone loyal to him, otherwise you'd start to hate everyone else.
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:28 AM
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Without Snoopy there would be no Woodstock. I loved that little bird.

Charles Schulz admitted it was hard not having Snoopy take over the whole strip.
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:35 AM
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Snoopy is the best thing about the strip. Otherwise, it just wallows in depression.
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:38 AM
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Snoopy is the best thing about the strip. Otherwise, it just wallows in depression.
You say that as if it's a bad thing!
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Old 12-02-2019, 09:57 AM
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CB needs someone loyal to him, otherwise you'd start to hate everyone else.
Is Snoopy really loyal to him? Sometimes he barely seems to acknowledge Charlie Brown's existence.

I remember a strip where Charlie Brown was going away somewhere for an extended period--probably to camp, or something. He says a big, emotional farewell to Snoopy, telling him how much he'll miss him and all that.

After he's gone, Snoopy thinks, "Now I remember. That was the round-headed kid who brings me my food."
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Old 12-02-2019, 10:37 AM
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Is Snoopy really loyal to him? Sometimes he barely seems to acknowledge Charlie Brown's existence.

I remember a strip where Charlie Brown was going away somewhere for an extended period--probably to camp, or something. He says a big, emotional farewell to Snoopy, telling him how much he'll miss him and all that.

After he's gone, Snoopy thinks, "Now I remember. That was the round-headed kid who brings me my food."
I knew I was setting myself up!

Over the years Snoopy has been mean to Chuck, but on the whole I think he likes him. Over that long a run, characters act out of character sometimes. Snoopy does laugh along with the crowd at CB in the Christmas special, which always bugged me. (Linus is just as much at fault as CB, but the mob doesn't turn on him.)

Last edited by Just Asking Questions; 12-02-2019 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 12-02-2019, 10:46 AM
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(Linus is just as much at fault as CB, but the mob doesn't turn on him.)
That's cause they all know Linus has got a Bible quote just waiting to smack them down with!
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Old 12-02-2019, 10:50 AM
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Without Snoopy there would be no Woodstock.
And CB would be hard-pressed to field a baseball team. Snoopy is his shortstop.
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Old 12-02-2019, 10:59 AM
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That's cause they all know Linus has got a Bible quote just waiting to smack them down with!
"And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers." - Linus Winnfield (His security blanket says "Bad MF" on it)
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:04 AM
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But I would have enjoyed Peanuts every bit as much without him. Maybe more.
Jeez, no. Then it'd just be a superior Family Circus or some shit like that.
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:32 AM
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That's cause they all know Linus has got a Bible quote just waiting to smack them down with!
Francesco Marciuliano's take on Linus's Christmas speech.
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:40 AM
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If you google 'did Snoopy ruin Peanuts', there seem to be dozens of articles discussing that. When the strip started out, it was a bit darker and depression, existential ennui, neurotic behavior etc. were shown, filtered through the 'little folks' - out of the mouths of babes! Without Snoopy, whose exploits greatly expanded the strip, Peanuts wouldn't have at all lasted as long as it did.

Myself, I LOVE Snoopy. He did more or less take over the strip, but how many sad sack Charlie Brown storylines can we read without feeling down?

Last edited by salinqmind; 12-02-2019 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:43 AM
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And yes, Snoopy does love Charlie Brown. He has actually demonstrated affection to the ol' blockhead.

https://www.paleycenter.org/assets/U.../CB-snoopy.png

https://www.clipartwiki.com/clipimg/...ut-charlie.png
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:51 AM
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I was going to say that you could separate it into two separate comic strips, one about Snoopy and one about everyone else. But I realized that that's not exactly true: There's significant interaction between Snoopy and Lucy (Eww! Dog kisses!) and Snoopy and Linus (fighting over his blanket). The better split might be the ones focused on Snoopy (which includes his war fantasies, his conversations with Woodstock, the hints of his TARDIS doghouse, etc.), and the ones not focused on him (in which he acts, mostly, like a dog). Even that's not a perfect fit, because you've still got the weird interactions with Peppermint Patty, who thinks of him as a "funny big-nosed kid", but it's closer.
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Old 12-02-2019, 11:56 AM
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On the one hand, without Snoopy there's be no WWI Flying Ace, and I'd have missed one of my favorite model kits growing up.

On the other hand, if Snoopy didn't exist, there's be no Joe Cool. And the world would be better.

I'm glad he existed. Owned it. This, too. And this.

But don't offend him, Chuck!

Last edited by Just Asking Questions; 12-02-2019 at 11:57 AM.
  #17  
Old 12-02-2019, 01:11 PM
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I got that model for Christmas one year! It may have been the only model kit I ever finished assembling. But then as I was showing it off to my family, my auntís girlfriend pointed out that it wasnít an accurate replica of a Sopwith Camel (evidently, she was a WWI buff and was speaking from some authority as an enthusiast regarding early military aircraft).*

I never owned the soap dish, but I did have an electric toothbrush in his image.

*Wow. The degree of detail with which that memory is imbued makes me wonder if it was a key experience in the formation of my personal behavioral traits (or maybe it just explains why I never became a model-kit hobbyist).
  #18  
Old 12-02-2019, 01:13 PM
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On the other hand, if Snoopy didn't exist, there's be no Joe Cool. And the world would be better.
Címon; he wasnít the most admirable Doper, but there have been far worse...
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Old 12-02-2019, 01:17 PM
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I never owned the soap dish, but I did have an electric toothbrush in his image.
I had that also!

As far as Snoopy showing affection for Charlie Brown, my favorite is this strip.
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Old 12-02-2019, 01:28 PM
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I had the music box of the doghouse with Snoopy on top as the WWI Flying Ace and British roundels stuck on both sides of the roof. When wound up, it played "It's a Long Way to Tipperary."

This one:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...16KJlV8ODX-g&s
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  #21  
Old 12-02-2019, 01:57 PM
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I wonder how many Dopers have had handles that wouldn’t have likely been chosen if Snoopy hadn’t existed...
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Old 12-02-2019, 02:18 PM
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I think my favorite Peanuts merch was the sno-cone maker.
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Old 12-02-2019, 02:45 PM
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One of my favorite YouTube videos. Two model airplanes, one a model of Snoopy on his doghouse, the other a model Fokker triplane, fighting it out in the skies set to the Royal Guardsmen hit song Snoopy vs. the Red Baron.

https://youtu.be/Wt0ngzWeoqA
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Old 12-02-2019, 03:20 PM
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One of my favorite YouTube videos. Two model airplanes, one a model of Snoopy on his doghouse, the other a model Fokker triplane, fighting it out in the skies set to the Royal Guardsmen hit song Snoopy vs. the Red Baron.

https://youtu.be/Wt0ngzWeoqA
"If they could make a washing machine fly, my Snoopy could land it."

Whoda thunk you could make a doghouse fly?
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Old 12-02-2019, 03:54 PM
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Snoopy, one ear raised high, on his doghouse with stars in the background: "On a clear night I can get Mexico City."
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Old 12-02-2019, 04:41 PM
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I loved the one where Linus, I think it was, was worried about burglars, and Charlie Brown pointed out Snoopy was a watchdog. The last panel had Snoopy on top of his doghouse, manning a Vickers water-cooled machinegun.
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Old 12-02-2019, 07:07 PM
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The one where Linus was trying to break his security blanket addiction by giving his blanket to Snoopy who had it made into a sport coat.

Linus screaming at Charlie Brown: Do you know what I just read in a medical journal? A person who gives his blanket to a dog who then has it made into a sport coat cannot possibly survive more than 24 hours!!!!

Charlie Brown: That must be an interesting medical journal.
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Old 12-02-2019, 07:19 PM
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AFAICT, there are 2 Snoopys. Comic strip Snoopy- self absorbed asshole. Cartoon Snoopy- lovable angelic elf. I’m wondering if children would be as drawn to the Snoopy merchandise if all they had for reference was the comic strip.
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Old 12-02-2019, 07:32 PM
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Had a stuffed Snoopy as a kid.


Don't. Disrespect. Da. Snoopy!


That is all
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Old 12-02-2019, 07:55 PM
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AFAICT, there are 2 Snoopys. Comic strip Snoopy- self absorbed asshole. Cartoon Snoopy- lovable angelic elf. Iím wondering if children would be as drawn to the Snoopy merchandise if all they had for reference was the comic strip.
As seen in this thread, comic Snoopy was not always an asshole. And as a child I loved Snoopy. I had every collection book I could get.
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Old 12-02-2019, 10:35 PM
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...
Charles Schulz admitted it was hard not having Snoopy take over the whole strip.
Snoopy did take over in a lot of ways.

I was never a big Snoopy fan I must admit. As a boy back in the late sixties/early seventies I went back and forth between Linus, Charlie Brown, and Schroeder as my favorite characters. Snoopy was pretty far down the list.

I liked the WWI flying ace strips very much (in part perhaps because this was always clearly fantasy world on Snoopy's part), and some of the other flights-of-fancy strips and sequences were pretty good as well. But a lot of the Snoopy-based strips just felt like too much of a stretch. Snoopy as golfer, tennis player, I dunno what all else. They never quite worked for me. I thought the kids were more fun, more interesting, and more real. YM obviously Vs.
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Old 12-03-2019, 02:31 AM
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Opus the Penguin was an homage to Snoopy, and Opus is my second favorite comic strip character ever, and one of my favorite fictional characters of all time. The world would be bleaker without Opus (tried to work a "Beaker" joke in there, and just couldn't manege).

First favorite, is anyone cares, is Moonbeam McSwine. She probably would have liked Snoop.
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Old 12-03-2019, 04:47 AM
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Opus the Penguin was an homage to Snoopy, and Opus is my second favorite comic strip character ever, and one of my favorite fictional characters of all time. The world would be bleaker without Opus....
"A boy and his penguin."

"A penguin and his boy."

"Two dips and a Dad."
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Old 12-03-2019, 06:25 AM
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Opus was a (an?) homage to Snoopy? I've never heard that. Loved that silly little penguin too. Is there somewhere this is documented that I can look at? Genuinely curious, not meant in a "got a cite" sort of way.
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:41 AM
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I liked the angst of Lucy over Schroeder and her fanciful ideas of what their future married life might entail. "Wouldn't it be romantic if you broke both your arms and I had to go work in a laundry to support us?" And "I think it would be nice if you gave me one perfect rose". And he played away on his toy piano, either oblivious or shooting down some of her fantasies.
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:49 AM
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Opus was a (an?) homage to Snoopy? I've never heard that.
If you're pronouncing it correctly (the French way), you use the indefinite article "an" because the "h" is silent.

Sorry, that's the English teacher in me.
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Old 12-03-2019, 10:59 AM
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Had a stuffed Snoopy as a kid.


Don't. Disrespect. Da. Snoopy!


That is all
I actually made one for my baby sister back in 1972.
  #38  
Old 12-03-2019, 11:42 AM
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I wonder how many Dopers have had handles that wouldn’t have likely been chosen if Snoopy hadn’t existed...
Snooooopy, Snooooopy
Where oh where have you gone? (Come home!)
Snooooopy, Snooooopy,
Come home, Snoopy, come home!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l2MKxgUVjY

Last edited by mbh; 12-03-2019 at 11:44 AM.
  #39  
Old 12-03-2019, 12:25 PM
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If there were no Snoopy, Calvin Broadus, Jr., would have had to pick another nickname.
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Old 12-03-2019, 12:45 PM
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Opus the Penguin was an homage to Snoopy, and Opus is my second favorite comic strip character ever, and one of my favorite fictional characters of all time. The world would be bleaker without Opus (tried to work a "Beaker" joke in there, and just couldn't manege).
Likewise, Calvin and Hobbes owes a lot to Charlie Brown and Snoopy. Disfunctional kid and imaginative pet who speak to adult themes works well.
  #41  
Old 12-03-2019, 05:15 PM
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Opus was a (an?) homage to Snoopy? I've never heard that. Loved that silly little penguin too. Is there somewhere this is documented that I can look at? Genuinely curious, not meant in a "got a cite" sort of way.
Opus was drawn with a more penguin-like beak in the first, maybe, two strips he was in, but after that, he had a shnozz like Snoopy, and he also had the B&W contrast of Snoopy (of all dogs, Beagles have it naturally, which is probably why Snoopy was a Beagle, but penguins have it too, as unlikely they are as a pet), his wing hung down just like Snoopy's ear, he had Snoopy's belly, and his size proportion in relation to the characters was about the same as Snoopy's. He could step right into Snoopy's profile, other than the ridiculousness of his being a penguin.

His lack of confidence was sort of the opposite of Snoopy-- it was ironic-- Opus was more like Charlie Brown than Snoopy; however, Opus did have an active fantasy life.

IIRC, he was also the first comic strip animal to interact with humans, and just talk, not have thought bubbles. I mean, there have been animals that talked amongst themselves, but Opus could speak English.

I don't know about the rest of you, but it always frustrated me that these thoroughly anthropomorphic animals had only thought bubbles. I was so relieved when Opus just came out and talked.

I had a stuffed Opus when I was in high school. It must be packed away somewhere. Probably with the boxes in storage from my mother's.
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:05 PM
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As a kid, I loved Snoopy so much that I got really good at drawing "vulture Snoopy."
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Old 12-03-2019, 08:48 PM
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I think the whole Peanuts comics is a great indication of how society has changed (probably for the better IMHO) since "we were kids".

My wife and I were always big Peanuts fans, (I had Peanuts / Snoopy bedding, towels, apparel, stuffed dolls etc) so a few years ago when our kids were mid & early teens we put on the Charlie Brown Great Pumpkin Halloween special. Both our kids went absolutely bananas and couldn't watch it.

"This entire show is condoning bullying and making it look like a fun thing!"
"Look at way Lucy treats people, how can you find this funny?!?!?"
"These people are terrible friends, Charlie Brown gets treated like garbage by everyone."
"Friends support each other, not tear each other down!"

My grade 9 daughter even talked about how if Charlie Brown was a friend of her's she'd be pushing him to get counselling for his obvious mental health issues. My head was spinning!

After that lecture from our kids, my wife an I had a whole different perspective on Peanuts. I can certainly see their point. It had never really occurred to me that the whole Lucy / Charlie Brown dynamic glorifies the bully and laughs at victim in an abusive relationship.

BTW - we did try to sell our kids on the charm of Snoopy, but at that point they were way to repulsed by the rest to care.

We never even attempted the Xmas Special.
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Old 12-03-2019, 10:01 PM
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IIRC, he was also the first comic strip animal to interact with humans, and just talk, not have thought bubbles.
That can't possible be accurate. They had funny animals interacting with humans on equal footing for decades in cartoons and comic books - it seems really farfetched that nobody did the same thing in a newspaper comic strip for over eighty years, until Berke Brethed showed up.
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Old 12-03-2019, 10:47 PM
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Didn't the animal characters in Pogo talk?
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Old 12-04-2019, 12:09 AM
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It had never really occurred to me that the whole Lucy / Charlie Brown dynamic glorifies the bully and laughs at victim in an abusive relationship.
I disagree. It isn't glorifying the bully, it's acknowledging it. It happened, and it happened to me, and I had no more idea at that age than CB did as to how to stop it. Like I posted earlier, Linus is never the object of the mob's attacks, but he is just as bad as CB about the Christmas tree. Why does he get off free, while me and CB never did?

If one wants to put a psychological interpretation on it, Lucy and CB are in a codependent relationship. Charlie could get Linus to hold the football, or Sally, or Pigpen (who really is the bigger target of bullying, IMO), but then he's happier getting the ball pulled away than in actually kicking it. It validates that he is the loser everyone tells him he is. And if Lucy can't pull the ball away and get away with it, she has no self-worth.

Or he could just kick Lucy in the head.

But Schulz had none of that in mind. It's just a funny strip.

Last edited by Just Asking Questions; 12-04-2019 at 12:10 AM.
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Old 12-04-2019, 12:49 AM
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@Just asking questions
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I had no more idea at that age than CB did as to how to stop it
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But Schulz had none of that in mind. It's just a funny strip.
That's exactly my point, times have changed. To us it was just a funny strip. However, many kids these days are taught about bullying and do understand it and (at least in the case of my kids) have an idea of how to stop it. And they don't see any humour in it.

I liken it now to watching an old Honeymooners episode and seeing Ralph threaten Alice with a cocked fist and a "BANG, ZOOM.. right to the moon Alice!" I laughed out loud then, but now I cringe when I see him threatening to punch out his wife (especially having had female friends who were physically abused).

Also, I'm not saying I personally think Peanuts or Honeymooners or whatever else is worthy of scorn and should be banned. My wife and I still enjoyed the special. My point is simply that young people see things through a different lens than we did and society has changed for the better because of it, IMO.

Quote:
Or he could just kick Lucy in the head.
My son said exactly that too . He was bullied in elementary school and it stopped instantly when he planted a solid kick in the bully's balls one day at recess . (BTW - That's not how they were taught to deal with bullying, he was supposed to tell his teacher, but he improvised and it worked).
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Old 12-04-2019, 01:22 AM
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Ralph's blustering in The Honeymooners was funny because we all knew he was a big gasbag and would never have done anything to hurt Alice. She knew it too, which is why she wasn't afraid to stand up to him.

I can only imagine how disappointed today's kids are when they get out into the real world and find nothing is as sweet and gentle as they've been conned into believing. People as abusive as Lucy are everywhere, and nothing is ever going to change that.
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Old 12-04-2019, 01:24 AM
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My son said exactly that too . He was bullied in elementary school and it stopped instantly when he planted a solid kick in the bully's balls one day at recess . (BTW - That's not how they were taught to deal with bullying, he was supposed to tell his teacher, but he improvised and it worked).
My hearty congratulations go out to your son!
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Old 12-04-2019, 01:26 AM
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I really like this reboot of the peanuts:

https://twitter.com/apelad/status/11...148920832?s=21
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